Has there been a QB in recent memory with more Bulletin Board material than Josh?

[Mr. K]

There is that Boston Blobe article saying Fromm is going to be the starter. But thats just a protroll.

[BuffaloHokie13]

6 minutes ago, eball said:

You have a poor memory.  None of the QBs mentioned were top 10 draft picks, and all were justifiably critiqued for their play on the field.  Most were "propped up" or at least given the benefit of the doubt before reality could not be ignored.

 

Allen, by contrast, has been bashed incessantly since he was drafted -- before he took one step on an NFL field many labeled him a certain bust.  Then, despite huge improvements in key areas last season, nearly every write up about the 2020 Bills lists Allen as the biggest question mark and/or reason the Bills won't advance farther.

 

It's like night and day.

Isn't that also justifiable based on his play to date? He's absolutely improving, but he's pretty clearly the limiting factor on the field for the O. The roster has been intentionally built that way to foster success, while also ensuring a fair evaluation. 

 

If the same statement were made about, let's say Drew Lock, would you feel like it was unfair? The Broncos went out and added the pieces around him on O to let him sink or swim.

[nucci]

every QB gets trashed

[eball]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Isn't that also justifiable based on his play to date? He's absolutely improving, but he's pretty clearly the limiting factor on the field for the O. The roster has been intentionally built that way to foster success, while also ensuring a fair evaluation. 

 

If the same statement were made about, let's say Drew Lock, would you feel like it was unfair? The Broncos went out and added the pieces around him on O to let him sink or swim.

 

The criticism of Josh is over the top.  If he plays exactly how he played last season the Bills are a playoff team.  Didn't he sustain the highest rate of drops last year?  It is VERY fair to say that Josh needs to continue to develop and improve, but (correct me if I'm wrong) there are still far too many "critiques" out there that presume he will flop.

[BuffaloHokie13]

4 minutes ago, eball said:

The criticism of Josh is over the top.  If he plays exactly how he played last season the Bills are a playoff team.  Didn't he sustain the highest rate of drops last year?  It is VERY fair to say that Josh needs to continue to develop and improve, but (correct me if I'm wrong) there are still far too many "critiques" out there that presume he will flop.

You didn't answer either of my questions. The point that this team will go as far as Josh Allen takes them is pretty valid imo. Whether that's 8-8, playoffs, or a super bowl remains to be seen.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Meh .... Kelly got crushed, relatively speaking, on occasion. Comes with the territory. 

[nucci]

12 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

You didn't answer either of my questions. The point that this team will go as far as Josh Allen takes them is pretty valid imo. Whether that's 8-8, playoffs, or a super bowl remains to be seen.

aren't most teams reliant on their starting QB?

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, nucci said:

aren't most teams reliant on their starting QB?

Not the point I'm making. The 2018 team results, for instance, were not on Josh. The roster needed work, especially on O. This is evidenced by bringing in 9 new starters in 2019, trading our 1st round pick for Diggs in 2020, and then drafting 2 more WRs after that.

[eball]

47 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

You didn't answer either of my questions. The point that this team will go as far as Josh Allen takes them is pretty valid imo. Whether that's 8-8, playoffs, or a super bowl remains to be seen.

 

I didn't answer your question about Drew Lock because his situation is not similar to Allen's -- he has literally no NFL resume to speak of while Allen now has 28 games and has shown a modicum of success already.

 

Yes, it is reasonable to say that the success of an NFL team rests largely upon its QB.  In the specific case of Josh Allen, more often than not the presumption is that he will not take the next step and he is rarely given the benefit of the doubt that his development and performance will improve.  Is that hard to understand?

 

Edit:  Case in point:  what do experts say about Mayfield/Darnold?  They are expecting them to move forward and progress in their third seasons.  Absolutely night and day from when they talk about Allen.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by eball

[Billl]

6 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I didn't answer your question about Drew Lock because his situation is not similar to Allen's -- he has literally no NFL resume to speak of while Allen now has 28 games and has shown a modicum of success already.

 

Yes, it is reasonable to say that the success of an NFL team rests largely upon its QB.  In the specific case of Josh Allen, more often than not the presumption is that he will not take the next step and he is rarely given the benefit of the doubt that his development and performance will improve.  Is that hard to understand?

Lock went 4-1 last year.  He threw 7 TDs and 3 INTs while completing 64% of his passes in throwing for 204 yards per game and a rating of 89.7.  That would be the best 5 game stretch of Allen’s career.

[BuffaloHokie13]

8 minutes ago, eball said:

I didn't answer your question about Drew Lock because his situation is not similar to Allen's -- he has literally no NFL resume to speak of while Allen now has 28 games and has shown a modicum of success already.

 

Yes, it is reasonable to say that the success of an NFL team rests largely upon its QB.  In the specific case of Josh Allen, more often than not the presumption is that he will not take the next step and he is rarely given the benefit of the doubt that his development and performance will improve.  Is that hard to understand?

Fine, let's go with Mitch Trubisky then. Top 10 pick, got weapons put around him, averages exactly the same total attempts per game as Allen, has a strong Defense to lean on when needed. As far as your second paragraph, you're either using poor sources or applying your own BBFS bias to the statements. Heck, I even said they could win the super bowl. The roster is very good around him. He'll determine how far they get. That is specific to Allen. Not every team has the quality roster we do.

[Kirby Jackson]

17 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I’ve been going through the years and I can’t remember a qb who has literally been trashed more then this guy yet is somehow successful heck even Josh Rosen who is almost out the league has gotten better publicity...just strange 

The thing with Josh (and I suspect Herbert and Love will face it) is that he was a polarizing prospect coming out. Some people LOVED him and some HATED him. It is human nature for people to want to be proven correct. The people that hated him say “see I told you he was inaccurate” whenever he misses an open receiver. The people that love him say, “see I told you he was one of the most talented QBs in the world” when he hurdles a defender in Minnesota. There were such extremes on him coming out that people get loud because they are constantly defending their strong feelings. They want to be right.
 

I don’t suspect Joe Burrow will face that because the opinions on him were pretty consistent. People just won’t discuss him like that. No one is going to write 6,000 words on, “Why I was right about Joe Burrow.” Everyone jumps at the opportunity to be proven right about Josh. Kiper, Adam Schein and Chris Simms think he’s the second coming. PFF and the guy at The Globe thinks that he’s terrible. He was polarizing coming out and people just can’t wait to tell you why they were right.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The thing with Josh (and I suspect Herbert and Love will face it) is that he was a polarizing prospect coming out. Some people LOVED him and some HATED him. It is human nature for people to want to be proven correct. The people that hated him say “see I told you he was inaccurate” whenever he misses an open receiver. The people that love him say, “see I told you he was one of the most talented QBs in the world” when he hurdles a defender in Minnesota. There were such extremes on him coming out that people get loud because they are constantly defending their strong feelings. They want to be right.
 

I don’t suspect Joe Burrow will face that because the opinions on him were pretty consistent. People just won’t discuss him like that. No one is going to right 6,000 words on, “Why I was right about Joe Burrow.” Everyone jumps at the opportunity to be proven right about Josh. Kiper, Adam Schein and Chris Simms think he’s the second coming. PFF and the guy at The Globe thinks that he’s terrible. He was polarizing coming out and people just can’t wait to tell you why they were right.

And that's the rub. He hasn't definitively proven he's one or the other (probably because the truth was always going to be in the middle somewhere). If he came in and had the same numbers as Mahomes' first 2 years as a starter this wouldn't be a thing. As it stands, he's a 56% passer who averages 6.6 YPA, 209 total YPG, and 1.68 TDs per game that has had success in the win/loss department and has won over the locker room. The 2020 roster is the best he has ever been on and it will be interesting to see where he takes them.

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

And that's the rub. He hasn't definitively proven he's one or the other (probably because the truth was always going to be in the middle somewhere). If he came in and had the same numbers as Mahomes' first 2 years as a starter this wouldn't be a thing. As it stands, he's a 56% passer who averages 6.6 YPA, 209 total YPG, and 1.68 TDs per game that has had success in the win/loss department and has won over the locker room. The 2020 roster is the best he has ever been on and it will be interesting to see where he takes them.

The truth is almost always somewhere in the middle. With Josh the opinions were so extreme it left a big middle. With Burrow, as an example, that doesn’t exist. The opinions were pretty consistent. There isn’t much to debate. You aren’t trying to influence people to one side or the other. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

You have a poor memory.  None of the QBs mentioned were top 10 draft picks, and all were justifiably critiqued for their play on the field.  Most were "propped up" or at least given the benefit of the doubt before reality could not be ignored.

 

Allen, by contrast, has been bashed incessantly since he was drafted -- before he took one step on an NFL field many labeled him a certain bust.  Then, despite huge improvements in key areas last season, nearly every write up about the 2020 Bills lists Allen as the biggest question mark and/or reason the Bills won't advance farther.

 

It's like night and day.

You and I have different recollections of the pre-draft and post-draft assessments of Josh as a prospect. Most credible analysts acknowledged his raw physical talents while also acknowledging that he was very far from being a refined NFL qb. That is not only a fair assessment of him as a draft prospect but also an accurate assessment of him as a young NFL qb. There is no doubt that he had his critics as a prospect. But the reality is that most analysts had him rated as one of the top three to four qbs in the draft who would be picked early in the first round. And that is exactly what transpired. 

 

There are always going to be people who have extreme views on players from being elite to being a bust. But in general (my opinion) most credible analysts and hometown fans were reasonable and fair in how they evaluated him. My view of him in the early part of his career is that he has demonstrated improvement as a qb. I'm happy with his development but there is still a long way to go for his impressive physical to be fully actualized. 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

You have a poor memory.  None of the QBs mentioned were top 10 draft picks, and all were justifiably critiqued for their play on the field.  Most were "propped up" or at least given the benefit of the doubt before reality could not be ignored.

 

Allen, by contrast, has been bashed incessantly since he was drafted -- before he took one step on an NFL field many labeled him a certain bust.  Then, despite huge improvements in key areas last season, nearly every write up about the 2020 Bills lists Allen as the biggest question mark and/or reason the Bills won't advance farther.

 

It's like night and day.

Lol there were reports about EJ that his college coach thought he would suck in the NFL. This was at the start of his second season. There have been negative takes on all of these Bills QB’s. I even linked a thread above about how the criticism was “so unfair.”

 

Several analysts have gushed over Josh. Pre and post draft.

 

You have a bad memory.

[eball]

53 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

And that's the rub. He hasn't definitively proven he's one or the other (probably because the truth was always going to be in the middle somewhere). If he came in and had the same numbers as Mahomes' first 2 years as a starter this wouldn't be a thing. As it stands, he's a 56% passer who averages 6.6 YPA, 209 total YPG, and 1.68 TDs per game that has had success in the win/loss department and has won over the locker room. The 2020 roster is the best he has ever been on and it will be interesting to see where he takes them.

 

None of which I disagree with.  The premise was about how he is perceived, in general, nationally.

[416BillsFan]

Probably, but most of it is a bi-product of the Bills actually being relevant nationally now, as well as him being a high draft pick. Can't imagine ESPN segments on EJ Manuel garnered good ratings or PFT articles on Trent Edwards generated any views.

Post Flutie/Johnson, our next biggest "star" at QB would undoubtedly be Nathan Peterman because his historically bad performances captured the imagination of even casual NFL fans. Him as a QB was like the sports version of Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist in that James Bond movie.

[Paup 1995MVP]

5 hours ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

What a testimony to the awesomeness of being a great fan and seeing an event that is a standard for the NFL capturing the imagination of all sports fans. I dream of going to a venue with my son and grandson and sharing an experience like that. 

Thanks Hampton.  I appreciate the response.  Football has been a huge constant in my life since I was 8 years old living in Pennsylvania.  I moved to Buffalo New Years 1976 when I was 10 and been a Bills fan ever since.  I have not missed a game on TV since the last game of the 94 season.  (when I go on vacation in the fall, it is usually to Vegas to bet on games)  My three kids who are either young adults or close to it grew up with the NFL and the Bills on the Sunday Ticket every Sunday.  My daughter used to wear a Brian Moorman jersey when she was young (he was the best player on team for years)  My older son would only wear NFL jerseys to school when he was in elementary school.  Football was a way of life in our house.  My mother who did not grow up a big football fan became hooked watching the Bills-Chargers playoff game at the end of the 1980 season.  She had season tickets for years after she moved to Toronto.  She would make the trek with her boyfriend to every game.  Her last one was the blizzard game against the Colts.  She was in the middle of that at age 77.  She gave her tickets away after that because her boyfriend had heart issues.  But she still watches every game in Toronto.  And the rest of my family all spread out across America does too.  I went to the first and third Bills Super Bowls.  Took my two boys down to Jacksonville for the Bills-Jags playoff game.  We are all very loyal to the team.  I was watching the draft with two boys last Thursday nite.  And my younger who is 17 says to me.  I remember when I was little, you would always be yelling at Trent Edwards, that he was always dumping it off instead of throwing down the field.  That cracked me up.    

[Jauronimo]

20 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I’ve been going through the years and I can’t remember a qb who has literally been trashed more then this guy yet is somehow successful heck even Josh Rosen who is almost out the league has gotten better publicity...just strange 

Most of the talking heads are high on Buffalo.  They have Allen as the best QB in the division.  

 

The obnoxious opinions from the extremely loud minority being shared all over Bills Mafia facebook and the budding QB controversy for simpletons are irrelevant.  When it comes to QB play we have 3 types of Bills fans:

 

1. The fast in love, thin skinned fan boys who see persecution everywhere  

2. The ardent haters who will never be convinced

3. The quiet and reasonable ones who recognize upside, flaws, progression, and regression when they see it.

 

11/10 threads and social median posts on the topic of QB play are started by the first 2 groups.

[Hampton Josh fan]

17 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Thanks Hampton.  I appreciate the response.  Football has been a huge constant in my life since I was 8 years old living in Pennsylvania.  I moved to Buffalo New Years 1976 when I was 10 and been a Bills fan ever since.  I have not missed a game on TV since the last game of the 94 season.  (when I go on vacation in the fall, it is usually to Vegas to bet on games)  My three kids who are either young adults or close to it grew up with the NFL and the Bills on the Sunday Ticket every Sunday.  My daughter used to wear a Brian Moorman jersey when she was young (he was the best player on team for years)  My older son would only wear NFL jerseys to school when he was in elementary school.  Football was a way of life in our house.  My mother who did not grow up a big football fan became hooked watching the Bills-Chargers playoff game at the end of the 1980 season.  She had season tickets for years after she moved to Toronto.  She would make the trek with her boyfriend to every game.  Her last one was the blizzard game against the Colts.  She was in the middle of that at age 77.  She gave her tickets away after that because her boyfriend had heart issues.  But she still watches every game in Toronto.  And the rest of my family all spread out across America does too.  I went to the first and third Bills Super Bowls.  Took my two boys down to Jacksonville for the Bills-Jags playoff game.  We are all very loyal to the team.  I was watching the draft with two boys last Thursday nite.  And my younger who is 17 says to me.  I remember when I was little, you would always be yelling at Trent Edwards, that he was always dumping it off instead of throwing down the field.  That cracked me up.    

Thanks for that. I have lived my entire life in the NY metro area amongst deranged Jets and Giants fans. When I was 8 or 9, my folks took me up to Buffalo to visit my sister at college. My dad got tickets to the rock pile to see Sestak, Stratton, Kemp and Golden Wheels and Cookie. That did it for me. My kids who have come with me on this wild ride, often ask why I made them Bill's fans especially while the Giants were winning Super Bowls. I usually say , you're doing God's work. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

2 hours ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

Thanks for that. I have lived my entire life in the NY metro area amongst deranged Jets and Giants fans. When I was 8 or 9, my folks took me up to Buffalo to visit my sister at college. My dad got tickets to the rock pile to see Sestak, Stratton, Kemp and Golden Wheels and Cookie. That did it for me. My kids who have come with me on this wild ride, often ask why I made them Bill's fans especially while the Giants were winning Super Bowls. I usually say , you're doing God's work. 

That's awesome.  When my daughter was young during the draught years.  And we would watch the Bills every Sunday she would say.  Why do we root for the Bills?  We suck!

[Straight Hucklebuck]

22 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Not really. 

 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/12/nfl-bills-josh-allen-stats-film-study/amp

Read the article and I think it’s completely fair.

 

I don’t care how Allen leads the offense as long as the Bills score more points.

 

But 28 games in, without his running, he is not a viable starting QB.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The thing with Josh (and I suspect Herbert and Love will face it) is that he was a polarizing prospect coming out. Some people LOVED him and some HATED him. It is human nature for people to want to be proven correct. The people that hated him say “see I told you he was inaccurate” whenever he misses an open receiver. The people that love him say, “see I told you he was one of the most talented QBs in the world” when he hurdles a defender in Minnesota. There were such extremes on him coming out that people get loud because they are constantly defending their strong feelings. They want to be right.
 

I don’t suspect Joe Burrow will face that because the opinions on him were pretty consistent. People just won’t discuss him like that. No one is going to write 6,000 words on, “Why I was right about Joe Burrow.” Everyone jumps at the opportunity to be proven right about Josh. Kiper, Adam Schein and Chris Simms think he’s the second coming. PFF and the guy at The Globe thinks that he’s terrible. He was polarizing coming out and people just can’t wait to tell you why they were right.

He was polarizing for a reason though.

 

He is the classic tools over production player. Greg Cosell watches as much QB film as anybody. He was saying the same things every other analyst said: elite tools, but inaccurate and doesn’t have a great feel for the nuances of the position. Little production in college. 

Josh would be a statistical outlier of a guy that didn’t produce in college, but came to the NFL and fulfilled the physical potential. 

 

You get drafted high in the first round, you’re more than likely going to a bad team. With that said:

 

2018 - Josh played exactly to his Scouting Reports. Poor passing statistics, bottom end production, poor decision making, great playmaking on the ground, elite measurables.

 

2019 - Josh played to the positive end of the spectrum of his Scouting Reports. Kept the dynamic ground ability, but the interceptions went down. Still, didn’t generate passing (193 ypg, 1.5 TDs) by modern NFL standards. 

The defense made the game as easy as they could for him outside of the Patriots in ppg allowed at 16.2. 

2020 - Bills got him a #1. Same coaches. Same scheme. Better running backs. Let’s see if he can do more than be a game manager. 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Stanley Lombardi]

20 hours ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

I didn't mention Flutie because he was actually good and fun to watch. However, they imbecilicly replaced  him for Music City Miracle. Johnson probably had the best game of his career. 

"Imbecilicly" --  Love it!  Where has it been all my life?

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

He was polarizing for a reason though.

 

He is the classic tools over production player. Greg Cosell watches as much QB film as anybody. He was saying the same things every other analyst said: elite tools, but inaccurate and doesn’t have a great feel for the nuances of the position. Little production in college. 

Josh would be a statistical outlier of a guy that didn’t produce in college, but came to the NFL and fulfilled the physical potential. 

 

You get drafted high in the first round, you’re more than likely going to a bad team. With that said:

 

2018 - Josh played exactly to his Scouting Reports. Poor passing statistics, bottom end production, poor decision making, great playmaking on the ground, elite measurables.

 

2019 - Josh played to the positive end of the spectrum of his Scouting Reports. Kept the dynamic ground ability, but the interceptions went down. Still, didn’t generate passing (193 ypg, 1.5 TDs) by modern NFL standards. 

The defense made the game as easy as they could for him outside of the Patriots in ppg allowed at 16.2. 

2020 - Bills got him a #1. Same coaches. Same scheme. Better running backs. Let’s see if he can do more than be a game manager. 

 

2018 he was supposed to sit. He had a terrible o-line, very little in the way of playmakers, and was about as raw a prospect as there is. If you're not just looking at statistics, he willed that team to victories and definitely improved in games coming back from injury. 2019 showed marked improvement on short and medium range passes. Long ball is an issue. Still don't see him as a "game manager." Game managers don't lead multiple fourth quarter comebacks. If you don't think Allen has frequently demonstrated the clutch gene or converted numerous 3rd and long situations that never occur with mere game managers, I believe you are failing to account for the positives. The fella is inconsistent, reads the field too slow, doesn't take advantage of "move the chains" opportunities because he too often fixates on the big play. He has to make another leap. I think he probably will, but right now his floor is too inconsistent to be franchise qb. Imo, a lot of the "game manager" impression has to do with playcalling. When you have a good defense, there's a tendency to avoid mistakes, but Allen needs to be allowed to play with more daring if he's going to reach his potential. He still may not, but I think the safe strategy doesn't help him.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

2018 he was supposed to sit. He had a terrible o-line, very little in the way of playmakers, and was about as raw a prospect as there is. If you're not just looking at statistics, he willed that team to victories and definitely improved in games coming back from injury. 2019 showed marked improvement on short and medium range passes. Long ball is an issue. Still don't see him as a "game manager." Game managers don't lead multiple fourth quarter comebacks. If you don't think Allen has frequently demonstrated the clutch gene or converted numerous 3rd and long situations that never occur with mere game managers, I believe you are failing to account for the positives. The fella is inconsistent, reads the field too slow, doesn't take advantage of "move the chains" opportunities because he too often fixates on the big play. He has to make another leap. I think he probably will, but right now his floor is too inconsistent to be franchise qb. Imo, a lot of the "game manager" impression has to do with playcalling. When you have a good defense, there's a tendency to avoid mistakes, but Allen needs to be allowed to play with more daring if he's going to reach his potential. He still may not, but I think the safe strategy doesn't help him.

We 100% agree on 2018 the Bills FO left him out to dry with a bottom 3 NFL roster at the skill positions.

 

McDermott and Beane chose to trade away Watkins, trade for Benjamin, leave Zay Jones as the #2, rely on fringe NFLers Isaiah McKenzie and Robert Foster to spark the offense, and feed the ball to a declining McCoy, and have Josh sit and “learn” behind Nate Petetman. They still thought Derek Anderson had something left to offer, and that was a disaster. 

 

I agree last year you saw improvement with a better offensive line, Singletary and Brown/Beasley, with Knox.

 

No arguments here.

 

But again, McDermott and Beane chose a guy that was raw. So that is gone now with 28 games under his belt a third year with the same OC and HC.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Hampton Josh fan]

47 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

That's awesome.  When my daughter was young during the draught years.  And we would watch the Bills every Sunday she would say.  Why do we root for the Bills?  We suck!

You are the Bill fan that we all aspire to be. Go to Nashville for a playoff game. Bring another generation into the fold, and realize when you have a real QB prospect, drafted in the 1st rd.,support him. Paup1995MVP, it's an honor. 

[njbuff]

Because of the past failings of Bills QB's, Josh Allen isn't allowed to go thru the growing progression as an NFL QB.

 

Which means he has basically gotten buried ever since the Bills drafted him.

 

I'd say he has MANY bulletin boards of material.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I mean, nobody ever got trashed more then Petterman but that was certainly earned. The thing I never got with him, was he never was supposed to be good. People acted like he was some sort of letdown, but he was a late round pick with almost no realistic expectations. He got it bad but he definitely deserved a lot of it.

[Bsblguy]

On 4/30/2020 at 6:40 PM, billsfan89 said:

People were legit saying Lamar Jackson will need to switch positions. 

One 80 year old man said that and got sh*t on by the media for it. How often do they talk about the fact that he cannot drive a ball, and any time he needs to put any steam on it, it comes unraveled and looks like a fast arm punt? 
 

how often do they mention that his OC took ALL routes outside of the numbers out of the play book because of said problem? 
 

everything Allen does is picked apart with a fine tooth comb, and if anyone remembers a good thing he has done they get called an idiot.

 

the thing is while he definitely needs to grow, no one on a national level is remotely interested in the things he does well, they are looking for confirmation of what they thought of him two years ago... which also doesn’t mater, because no one watches Wyoming football... GMF loves him because they are willing to look for more than the evidence they need to prove he is bad, they are willing to see how he impacts a team and a game... everyone else is just trying to prove they were right, two years ago, when they talked out of their ass about a college kid they never watched.

[Paup 1995MVP]

6 hours ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

You are the Bill fan that we all aspire to be. Go to Nashville for a playoff game. Bring another generation into the fold, and realize when you have a real QB prospect, drafted in the 1st rd.,support him. Paup1995MVP, it's an honor. 

Thank you Hampton.  I really appreciate that.  You sound like quite a fan yourself.  One of my most cherished memories was going to Jim Kelly's HOF induction in Canton in 2002.  My ex wife and I flew up to Buffalo.  And then drove down to Canton for the day.  I was so proud to be there with my new #12 jersey on, (special HOF edition) cheering on the legend.  I remember the speech he gave about his son Hunter.  Still chokes me up thinking about that.  Bills nation was strong and proud that day!!  The Kelly Bills teams were absolutely tremendous.  So many talented players across the roster.  Hard to have a favorite.  But I have a fondness for Andre Reed.  Just a tough talented receiver.  If he had played in this era, his stats would have been as good as anybody's.  Had great hands catching the football.  And what a competitor he was.  On defense I loved Darryl Talley.  A bad ass tough dude.  Great leader.  Great player.  And even the teams later on in the 90's had some great players.  My namesake Bryce Paup had two amazing years w the Bills (95 and 96)  But the best player hands down to ever wear a Bills uni was BRUCE!!  Noone dominated the NFL game from the DE position like Bruce.  Him LT Reggie White  Ronnie Lott and Ray Lewis. That is the pantheon of defense in the modern era.  It all starts w those guys.  Lots of other greats.  But it starts there for me.  

[Jim_Kelly_Holcomb]

On 4/30/2020 at 2:44 PM, skibum said:

You forgot Peterman. 

 

And Kelly Holcomb.

[JaCrispy]

14 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

2018 he was supposed to sit. He had a terrible o-line, very little in the way of playmakers, and was about as raw a prospect as there is. If you're not just looking at statistics, he willed that team to victories and definitely improved in games coming back from injury. 2019 showed marked improvement on short and medium range passes. Long ball is an issue. Still don't see him as a "game manager." Game managers don't lead multiple fourth quarter comebacks. If you don't think Allen has frequently demonstrated the clutch gene or converted numerous 3rd and long situations that never occur with mere game managers, I believe you are failing to account for the positives. The fella is inconsistent, reads the field too slow, doesn't take advantage of "move the chains" opportunities because he too often fixates on the big play. He has to make another leap. I think he probably will, but right now his floor is too inconsistent to be franchise qb. Imo, a lot of the "game manager" impression has to do with playcalling. When you have a good defense, there's a tendency to avoid mistakes, but Allen needs to be allowed to play with more daring if he's going to reach his potential. He still may not, but I think the safe strategy doesn't help him.

It’s kinda weird to see people keep referencing Allen’s 4th qtr comebacks to show how clutch he is, when he had one of the worst 4th qtr melt downs in the biggest game of his life...

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

It’s kinda weird to see people keep referencing Allen’s 4th qtr comebacks to show how clutch he is, when he had one of the worst 4th qtr melt downs in the biggest game of his life...

Yeah, well live with it dude. Don't really care what your analytics say, I watched the games and I know I saw Allen lead numerous fourth qtr comebacks. Skepticism that likes to shoot down every good thing the fella does starts to seem like an agenda, even if it's "realism."

[JaCrispy]

44 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Yeah, well live with it dude. Don't really care what your analytics say, I watched the games and I know I saw Allen lead numerous fourth qtr comebacks. Skepticism that likes to shoot down every good thing the fella does starts to seem like an agenda, even if it's "realism."

My point is that I just feel the stat can be very misleading, and doesn’t really illustrate if a QB is clutch or not...

[BigBillsFan]

15 hours ago, njbuff said:

Because of the past failings of Bills QB's, Josh Allen isn't allowed to go thru the growing progression as an NFL QB.

 

Sorry to bust your bubble but I think most of us would give him more leeway as a QB if he wasn't in the bottom 3rd of so many QB categories.

 

The same would be true if QBs new contracts weren't so high against the cap. Let's say he has moderate progression from last year. Are you willing to allocate what will be Prescott money at $35 mil a year for level production?

51 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Yeah, well live with it dude. Don't really care what your analytics say, I watched the games and I know I saw Allen lead numerous fourth qtr comebacks. Skepticism that likes to shoot down every good thing the fella does starts to seem like an agenda, even if it's "realism."

 

Against who? Bengals, Jets, Giants and I forgot the 4th but 3 of those 4 sucked and it wasn't like a comeback in the scheme of 2 heavy hitters, but some of the worst teams in the league.

 

The Chiefs coming back in the 2nd quarter from a massive deficit in the 2nd quarter against the Titans is far more meaningful because of the deficit and what was required than 1 score games against bad teams.

 

I watched him against the Pats and the Ravens and I didn't see anything special in the 4th quarter.

[C.Biscuit97]

Oh my God ?!!!  This board trashes Cam Newton and Lamar Jackson, MVPs and Heisman trophy winners, and you think Allen gets picked on too much???  Polian was literally on TV saying Jackson should switch positions and Allen gets picked on too much? This board had a 20+ page thread laughing at Mahomes for throwing interceptions in practice (can someone please find it!!! It’s hilarious).  Mitch Trubisky, who basically has the same exact second season as Allen, is a national punchline.  EJ Manuel, who has better passing numbers as a rookie than Allen and was 2-2, got 14 games to prove himself and Allen gets picked on too much???

 

If the Jets took a guy who never completed 60% of his passes on any level in the Mountain West Conference and so far in the NFL is a 56% passer who throws for 184 yards/ game, we would be laughing at them.  We would be like they have a good athlete at QB who can’t beat you with his arm consistently.  
 

At this point, Allen is in the Sanchez (he’s better right now), Bortles, Trubisky stage.  The young qb who is at this point the weak link to a SB caliber team.  Did Allen improve? Certainly.  But the best thing about all this is Allen can prove it on the field.  It’s that simple.  On paper looks like a much harder schedule and you probably won’t win a game 14-7 against KC like the Titans (one of his 4th “comebacks”).  So hopefully instead of Mitch, Blake, or Mark, he becomes Tom, Ben, or Russell.  

15 hours ago, njbuff said:

Because of the past failings of Bills QB's, Josh Allen isn't allowed to go thru the growing progression as an NFL QB.

 

Which means he has basically gotten buried ever since the Bills drafted him.

 

I'd say he has MANY bulletin boards of material.

That’s the nfl now.  With the rules and the college schemes in the nfl, the transition has never been easier.  You don’t need 5 years to evaluate a guy.  That’s why drafting “projects” in the top 10 is a wild move.  If Allen becomes the guy, they are smarter than 99.9% of the nfl because guys with Allen’s production in college in his conference rarely succeed as nfl players.  
 

 

[njbuff]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Oh my God ?!!!  This board trashes Cam Newton and Lamar Jackson, MVPs and Heisman trophy winners, and you think Allen gets picked on too much???  Polian was literally on TV saying Jackson should switch positions and Allen gets picked on too much? This board had a 20+ page thread laughing at Mahomes for throwing interceptions in practice (can someone please find it!!! It’s hilarious).  Mitch Trubisky, who basically has the same exact second season as Allen, is a national punchline.  EJ Manuel, who has better passing numbers as a rookie than Allen and was 2-2, got 14 games to prove himself and Allen gets picked on too much???

 

If the Jets took a guy who never completed 60% of his passes on any level in the Mountain West Conference and so far in the NFL is a 56% passer who throws for 184 yards/ game, we would be laughing at them.  We would be like they have a good athlete at QB who can’t beat you with his arm consistently.  
 

At this point, Allen is in the Sanchez (he’s better right now), Bortles, Trubisky stage.  The young qb who is at this point the weak link to a SB caliber team.  Did Allen improve? Certainly.  But the best thing about all this is Allen can prove it on the field.  It’s that simple.  On paper looks like a much harder schedule and you probably won’t win a game 14-7 against KC like the Titans (one of his 4th “comebacks”).  So hopefully instead of Mitch, Blake, or Mark, he becomes Tom, Ben, or Russell.  

That’s the nfl now.  With the rules and the college schemes in the nfl, the transition has never been easier.  You don’t need 5 years to evaluate a guy.  That’s why drafting “projects” in the top 10 is a wild move.  If Allen becomes the guy, they are smarter than 99.9% of the nfl because guys with Allen’s production in college in his conference rarely succeed as nfl players.  
 

 

 

The transition from college QB to the NFL has never been easier? Ok.

[buffaloboyinATL]

Are you kidding? They had to buy extra bulletin boards when Peterman was here, just to have enough room to post it all...