I don’t get the hate that Josh Allen gets around here.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

The password for today is ----> shhhh  DEFENSE

Josh is far from a finished product but I think it's crazy if you can't see the improvements he made. He is 23 of course there will be bonehead plays

 

But his intermediate accuracy has become very good , he has a quick release and a great playing fire. You can tell teammates have bought in and he is actually very good against zone coverages. His quick release and arm strength let him get the ball there in a hurry

 

He needs to improve against tight man and decision making but that comes with time and WRs who can consistently beat man

 

He has shown an ability to make throws that few people alive can and he has shown a will to win that is inspirational as a player. I wouldn't discount the kid at all

 

All the players at that level are talented, it's who is willing to work the hardest

[Bring it]

Not saying he’s great but he does make others more productive!!

 

[GreggTX]

This is ridiculous. No one "hates" Josh Allen. Some of us are just being realistic about his serious flaws and aren't going to see him as a guy that can win a SB until he actually reaches that level, if he ever reaches that level. He still has a long way to go. His passing efficiency rating was a wopping 69.2. He was 2nd in the NFL in fumbles. He does not handle pressure as well as most QB's and he holds the ball too long.

 

In all fairness, he hasn't had a good supporting cast overall and the OL still needs a lot of improvement. Hopfully the mental aspects of the game will improve for him. He has good leadership skills and work ethic, but his accuracy will always be a liability. I like him, but I don't know if he can ever be a great passer. I sure hope so. I'm just not going to say he's a great QB until he plays like one. There is nothing unreasonable or wrong with that. We hold every other player to that standard, yet Josh gets a free pass. I just hope that some day he will be as good as some people think he already is.

[Success]

Nuthin’ but love from this long time fan.  

 

He has everything he needs to be great.  All of the skills, competitive fire and intangibles.  He’s obsessive about correcting mistakes.  

 

Take away that lateral - which didn’t hurt us - and he has played his best in the biggest moments.  Prime time games like Dallas and Pittsburgh, and so many big 4th quarter plays  and comebacks.

 

Josh Allen is going to get this city its first Lombardi.  I’m sure of it.

[Cripple Creek]

14 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I get it he’s not perfect, but neither was Kemp, or Ferguson or even Kelly for that matter. First it’s finally we have a franchise QB now all of a sudden it’s let’s go get Watson and let Allen go so we don’t have to pay him 30 million. Like some of you guys need to make up your minds. Either your with Allen or your not. Again while Bills mafia is the best fan base in the NFL, we are also the most spoiled. Appreciate what we have and root for the guy to succeed. Things could be worse, we could still have Tyrod( I can’t throw the football) Taylor or Nathan( I cant stop throwing to the other team) Peterman. Or how about EJ Manuel or Kyle Orton or even better Jeff Tuel or Thad Lewis. I can’t imagine if Kelly’s first year in Buffalo happened in today’s game, there would probably be a million threads about running him out of town and demanding that we draft someone else. I understand being critical and even being concerned, but some of you guys need to stop being negative and back off a bit and watch and see how it all unfolds. Be patient as the kids still young and is only going into his third year in the NFL. I don’t see Cleveland or New Jersey fans coming down on their QBS as much as I see here. And in my opinion Allen is way better than Darnold and Mayfield. 

Can you point out any of this hatred?  

[gobills1212]

14 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Trust me I like Reich as much as the next fan. But he was in no way a starting QB, both Carolina and The Jets found that out the hard way. Great teammate and probably the best back up that ever played the game, but was a horrible starter. If the NFL had a Hall Of Fame for back ups he’d probably be a first ballot lol

Todd Collins might have something to say about that...

[Cal]

I agree. I don't get it either. A lot of fans, probably a good majority didn't like him from the day he was drafted. I think he proved them wrong. I remember when we drafted Losman and he was like the second coming to most Bills fans...and how did that work out? Lol

Edited April 5, 2020 by Cal

[Success]

8 minutes ago, Cal said:

I agree. I don't get it either. A lot of fans, probably a good majority didn't like him from the day he was drafted. I think he proved them wrong. I remember when we drafted Losman and he was like the second coming to most Bills fans...and how did that work out? Lol

There were so many “we chose the wrong Josh” posts.

 

So glad we got Allen.  I’d rather have him right now than Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield.  Just seems like he was born to play in Buffalo.

[Orlando Tim]

I have been watching most of the games this past season on gamepass and I will state absolutely that he was better than the opposing QB most games, at least 9 times he was better and I would state 3 times he was equal. That mkes him at least average in my book in his second year. A little improvement and he is top 10 this year.

 

I also want to point out that in 4 of the last 6 games he played a full game he had great QBR numbers and only only Baltimore was bad. He is not a volume number guy but an efficient number guy

Edited April 5, 2020 by Buffalo Timmy
I am adding info

[BuffaloBills1998]

1 hour ago, gobills1212 said:

Todd Collins might have something to say about that...

I rooted for him and wanted him to be Kelly’s successor, but like I said before the team didn’t have his back and they kicked him out the door too quick. 

1 hour ago, Cal said:

I agree. I don't get it either. A lot of fans, probably a good majority didn't like him from the day he was drafted. I think he proved them wrong. I remember when we drafted Losman and he was like the second coming to most Bills fans...and how did that work out? Lol

I remember when he got drafted I was like, Who the ***** is this guy LOL, until we traded up for him I had never heard of him and didn’t know about his college career. Even then it seemed like such a out of left field choice to draft him. I can’t remember but was he even being mentioned of being a first round pick? Should’ve taken Big Ben

[Talley56]

I honestly don't see a whole ton of hatred.  Yes, I'm sure he has his critics, as I'm sure the majority of QBs get.  TBH, and I say this as a believer in Allen, I think he gets way too many excuses "But but, the receivers, the line, the play calling....."

[BuffaloBills1998]

6 minutes ago, Talley56 said:

I honestly don't see a whole ton of hatred.  Yes, I'm sure he has his critics, as I'm sure the majority of QBs get.  TBH, and I say this as a believer in Allen, I think he gets way too many excuses "But but, the receivers, the line, the play calling....."

Did you see how many dropped balls they had from their WR corps. And who were his WRs in his rookie season? And he played behind the worst O Line in his rookie year. Yeah he deserves the excuses

[njbuff]

5 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

 I think you need to reread my post for comprehension.  My criticism was aimed specifically at the OP who was complaining about other posters  not embracing Allen as a bonafide "franchise QB" after his second season.   Brady, Wilson, Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson cemented themselves as their teams' "franchise QBs" in their sophomore seasons.   Allen's  claim to the "franchise QB" tag is much more tenuous because he simply didn't play as well.  That doesn't mean -- and I never claimed -- that he can't continue to improve and become a franchise QB, but in reality he's not one now, and arguing he's a "franchise QB" simply because he's better than the trash that the Bills have started at QB for the past twenty years is disingenuously setting the bar at 2 inches off the ground and cheering that he clears it.  The OP needs to aim higher --- and maybe you do, too. 

 

Holy moly.

 

The kid showed significant improvement from year one to year two and led the team to the playoffs with NINE new starters around him.

 

Sorry if that isn't improvement enough for you for a 23 year old kid coming from a small school he had to carry on his back.

 

Saying he simply didn't play well is a completely narrow-minded view on Allen.

 

I never said he was a franchise QB now, but unlike others, I will allow him to grow into the role.

 

I also apologize that Allen isn't Brady, Wilson, Mahomes, Watson and Jackson at the grand old age of 23.

 

Mahomes got drafted by Reid, with the best support system of offense in the NFL.

 

Watson played at Clemson and he extensive championship experience, which really helped his transition to the NFL. Plus he had Hopkins and Fuller. When did Allen ever have anything like that?

 

Jackson was a former Heissman winning QB and Baltimore rebuilt their entire offense to cater to him. Job well done by Baltimore, but Jackson has been brutal in two playoff games.

 

 

With all that said and to your point................ Allen still does have a lot to prove. But I think he has the talent and temperament to get there.

[Buffalo716]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I rooted for him and wanted him to be Kelly’s successor, but like I said before the team didn’t have his back and they kicked him out the door too quick. 

I remember when he got drafted I was like, Who the ***** is this guy LOL, until we traded up for him I had never heard of him and didn’t know about his college career. Even then it seemed like such a out of left field choice to draft him. I can’t remember but was he even being mentioned of being a first round pick? Should’ve taken Big Ben

Big Ben was taken earlier and JP actually had a huge pedigree

 

He was a consensus 5* recruit who could've played anywhere in the country. Went to UCLA who promised him the job , didn't get it as fresh so transferred to Tulane

 

Physically JP had it all, mentally .....

[Talley56]

29 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Did you see how many dropped balls they had from their WR corps. And who were his WRs in his rookie season? And he played behind the worst O Line in his rookie year. Yeah he deserves the excuses

If he deserves excuses then so do a lot of Bills castoff QBs over the years.  Not saying Allen is as bad as them but they didn't have it much better and I would argue in many cases they had it much worse.  How many great WRs and olines did any of them have?  Allen may not have had the best help his rookie season but he had atleast had a pretty solid oline in year 2.

[DocLawless]

13 hours ago, Billl said:

Dak is replaceable?  He just threw for 10 more TDs and nearly 2000 yards more than Allen while completing over 65% of his passes and runs just as well as Josh.  He also never gets hurt.

Dak runs just as well as Allen on which planet? Certainly not this one. 

 

Also want to add that Dak has had a top 5 running back and line his entire career. You could also argue his receivers are well above what Allen has had to work with. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by DocLawless

[DocLawless]

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

 

Holy moly.

 

The kid showed significant improvement from year one to year two and led the team to the playoffs with NINE new starters around him.

 

Sorry if that isn't improvement enough for you for a 23 year old kid coming from a small school he had to carry on his back.

 

Saying he simply didn't play well is a completely narrow-minded view on Allen.

 

I never said he was a franchise QB now, but unlike others, I will allow him to grow into the role.

 

I also apologize that Allen isn't Brady, Wilson, Mahomes, Watson and Jackson at the grand old age of 23.

 

Mahomes got drafted by Reid, with the best support system of offense in the NFL.

 

Watson played at Clemson and he extensive championship experience, which really helped his transition to the NFL. Plus he had Hopkins and Fuller. When did Allen ever have anything like that?

 

Jackson was a former Heissman winning QB and Baltimore rebuilt their entire offense to cater to him. Job well done by Baltimore, but Jackson has been brutal in two playoff games.

 

 

With all that said and to your point................ Allen still does have a lot to prove. But I think he has the talent and temperament to get there.

This ^

[BuffaloBills1998]

1 hour ago, Talley56 said:

If he deserves excuses then so do a lot of Bills castoff QBs over the years.  Not saying Allen is as bad as them but they didn't have it much better and I would argue in many cases they had it much worse.  How many great WRs and olines did any of them have?  Allen may not have had the best help his rookie season but he had atleast had a pretty solid oline in year 2.

The o line last year honestly was up and down. He had better protection the. Last year Yes, but it was still shaky.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Did you see how many dropped balls they had from their WR corps. And who were his WRs in his rookie season? And he played behind the worst O Line in his rookie year. Yeah he deserves the excuses

 

I think he has had legitimate excuses to this point. But those end now. It is kind of time to put up and shut up. Everything is in place for him to take another step this year and we will know a lot more about who Josh is after this season. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he has had legitimate excuses to this point. But those end now. It is kind of time to put up and shut up. Everything is in place for him to take another step this year and we will know a lot more about who Josh is after this season. 

I agree that they end now due to him having weapons to throw to. And that’s if we’re even having football this season which unfortunately I’m having my doubts

[SoTier]

13 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

This would be more believeable if you didnt B word about EVERYTHING

 

Still...yes Josh is still a work in progress

 

When have I used the "B word" about Josh Allen???  What I've complained about -- repeatedly -- was how poorly the Bills managed their QB situation in 2018 -- including not bothering to have an experienced QB coach which could no way be blamed on the team being in their self-imposed "cap hell"  -- resulting in Allen literally being "thrown to the wolves" as a rookie -- poorly prepared and lacking both protection and weapons.   That all changed dramatically in 2019 and continued into the 2020 FA period so far which suggests that the firing of Russ Brandon as head honcho of the Bills and Sabres in May 2018 brought a shift in the Bills' corporate philosophy that enabled Beane to demonstrate his competency as an NFL GM in acquiring talent to put around Allen, which he's done.

 

Now it's up to Allen to step up and perform better on the field than he did in 2019. 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by SoTier

[BeastMaster]

I agree that I don't see a ton of hate on these boards in regards to Allen. What I do see is a ton of hate by media...particularly ESPN.

 

It's fine to have doubts still, and I can understand why some would. He shows inaccuracy at times, and his deep ball wasn't very good. Those are things that will draw criticism and rightfully so.

 

But I look at it from the perspective that he wasn't in a good college program...as evidenced by his first season with Bills compared to his second season. What we saw was clear evidence that a solid coaching staff can help him make major strides.

 

So with that in mind, and the belief that improvement should continue...especially with upgrades to his line and receivers, let's look at the other parts of his game like his toughness and running ability. He's a serious goal line and short yardage weapon. He's a leader on and off the field, and he is determined to work to improve his game.

 

So while some see the flaws and hold onto the narrative that was given to him coming into the league, I see a kid that should only get better and that has given me no reason to believe he will not continue to get better and lead this team to a championship.

[Da webster guy]

From my perspecitve, Josh gets tons of support and love from media and vast majority of fans.  The negative fans will always be heard more but they're far outnumbered.

 

Josh cleaned up his INT issues, and we had a playoff season last year.  Great guy, leader, fun to watch, humble, competitor etc.

 

There will always be the Sal Maiorana, Jerry Sullivan writers that B word all day long about everything but just ignore them and focus on all the upside of our situation in Buff right now.  Lot to be excited about.

 

For those that say our schedule is a lot tougher next year, I say every year there is massive change in how teams play, some surprise by playing better and some just have off years. Rams and Patriots seemed dominant 2 years ago, Pats fizzled in playoffs and Rams barely beat .500 and missed the playoffs.   Steelers, Browns, Falcs, lot of ups and downs from one year to the next. 

 

Bills 11 wins next year, undefeated at home.

[Cripple Creek]

Still searching for this hatred.  Can anyone show me the hatred?  OP can't.  Anyone gotta link?

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

From my perspecitve, Josh gets tons of support and love from media and vast majority of fans.  The negative fans will always be heard more but they're far outnumbered.

 

Josh cleaned up his INT issues, and we had a playoff season last year.  Great guy, leader, fun to watch, humble, competitor etc.

 

There will always be the Sal Maiorana, Jerry Sullivan writers that B word all day long about everything but just ignore them and focus on all the upside of our situation in Buff right now.  Lot to be excited about.

 

For those that say our schedule is a lot tougher next year, I say every year there is massive change in how teams play, some surprise by playing better and some just have off years. Rams and Patriots seemed dominant 2 years ago, Pats fizzled in playoffs and Rams barely beat .500 and missed the playoffs.   Steelers, Browns, Falcs, lot of ups and downs from one year to the next. 

 

Bills 11 wins next year, undefeated at home.

 

Our schedule is a lot tougher. I honestly don't buy this "it is impossible to know" stuff. I have only once in 8 seasons on this forum been more than a game out on Buffalo's final record (2015 I had 10-6 but Rex scraped his way to 8-8). I called 12 of the 16 games right last year. I am not trying to suggest I am some sort of genius. I most definitely am not. It just isn't that hard if you are paying attention to the NFL as a whole and not just to the Bills. You will miss on one or two teams every year (I had San Fran as a .500 team in 2019) but if you are paying attention you won't miss on many.  

[Dr. Who]

17 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Still searching for this hatred.  Can anyone show me the hatred?  OP can't.  Anyone gotta link?

Well, I suppose it may depend on how one defines hatred. Go search Nextmanup or BringbackOrton. There are a few others.

[Billl]

10 hours ago, DocLawless said:

Dak runs just as well as Allen on which planet? Certainly not this one. 

 

Also want to add that Dak has had a top 5 running back and line his entire career. You could also argue his receivers are well above what Allen has had to work with. 

Dak averaged 5.3 YPC last season to 4.7 for Josh.  Josh runs more, so he scores more TDs, but they score at the same rate.  Allen had 9 TDs on 109 carries.  Dak has 127 carries in the last 2 seasons with 9 TDs.

 

They're very similar runners as well.  Both ran a 4.8 40 yard dash at the combine.  Both use their size and athleticism to gain yards rather than speed and quickness.  Prescott is a little better in terms of ball security as well.  Overall, they’re very equal as runners.  Both are above average but not elite.

[maryland-bills-fan]

A lot of this "hate" is just trolls trolling for getting people upset.  Allen is the Buffalo QB, people root for him and the Bills to do good. The jerks like to piss on the Bill fan's hopes and get some thrills for being able to affect people  Jerks like that are losers.

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

Well, I suppose it may depend on how one defines hatred. Go search Nextmanup or BringbackOrton. There are a few others.

Regarding BBO I searched back through 3/1.  Zero, zip, zilch.  Maybe you have him confused with someone else.

 

@Nextmanup did say this: 

Quote

It's all on Allen. He needs to improve dramatically, and perform on that new level CONSISTENTLY, for the team to take the next step. The surrounding pieces are good enough to make the playoffs and have a shot at doing something in them.

and I agree with every word of it.  I don't see any hatred, zero; just like I don't feel any hatred.  I have expectations and everything is on Allen's shoulders.  If someone calls realistic expectations hatred then perhaps the problem lies within.

 

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

When have I used the "B word" about Josh Allen???  What I've complained about -- repeatedly -- was how poorly the Bills managed their QB situation in 2018 -- including not bothering to have an experienced QB coach which could no way be blamed on the team being in their self-imposed "cap hell"  -- resulting in Allen literally being "thrown to the wolves" as a rookie -- poorly prepared and lacking both protection and weapons.   That all changed dramatically in 2019 and continued into the 2020 FA period so far which suggests that the firing of Russ Brandon as head honcho of the Bills and Sabres in May 2018 brought a shift in the Bills' corporate philosophy that enabled Beane to demonstrate his competency as an NFL GM in acquiring talent to put around Allen, which he's done.

 

Now it's up to Allen to step up and perform better on the field than he did in 2019. 

 

 

Beane admitted they should have brought a vet like Anderson in earlier.  How long do you want to stomp on the corpse of this issue?

[BurpleBull]

I thought this thread would be dated from 2018.

 

I don't think the majority of people here express disdain for Allen these days.

[Mango]

I love Josh the leader and the person. He is electric to watch play football. But I have yet to like Josh the passer. At times I think he needs to work on his consistency. At worst, he’s not a quality passer of the football. I think that’s a fair place to be. 
 

I do think we should look at his rate of improvement. And he has absolutely improved in some areas, just not there yet. 
 

I also think we should measure Josh’s improvements outside of upgraded surrounding cast. So last season we upgraded the OL and WR from bad to average/meh. Did we see a significant improvement above supporting cast? Similarly, if Josh got 0% better this season (which I don’t expect) but the OL has another year of continuity and adding Diggs makes his WR Corp top flight, what are we expecting in terms of production just because of cast. Anything above that is Josh. 
 

Obviously it is difficult to provide clear lines and is much more nuanced, but I think it is important to keep in mind. I think Diggs and the OL alone should be about 4% completion and 600 more passing yards-ish 

[DocLawless]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

Dak averaged 5.3 YPC last season to 4.7 for Josh.  Josh runs more, so he scores more TDs, but they score at the same rate.  Allen had 9 TDs on 109 carries.  Dak has 127 carries in the last 2 seasons with 9 TDs.

 

They're very similar runners as well.  Both ran a 4.8 40 yard dash at the combine.  Both use their size and athleticism to gain yards rather than speed and quickness.  Prescott is a little better in terms of ball security as well.  Overall, they’re very equal as runners.  Both are above average but not elite.

Now do 2018. Dak ran 75 times for 301 yards averaging 4.1 YPC. He also fumbled the ball 12 times. Allen ran 89 times for 631 averaging 7.1 YPC, with 8 fumbles. I could be wrong here, but I believe it has been said that Allen was told to run less and focus more on being a pocket passer in 2019, which would explain the regression of those numbers. Furthermore, I watch both teams quite often and Allens ability to escape a broken down pocket exceeds Prescotts. On top of that, Prescott is older, has been in the league longer, and has had a better roster around him every year of his career, minus last year arguably. I don't think many would argue against the cowboys having much better offensive weapons the past few years than the bills. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by DocLawless

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, DocLawless said:

Now do 2018. Dak ran 75 times for 301 yards averaging 4.1 YPC. He also fumbled the ball 12 times. Allen ran 89 times for 631 averaging 7.1 YPC, with 8 fumbles. I could be wrong here, but I believe it has been said that Allen was told to run less and focus more on being a pocket passer in 2019, which would explain the regression of those numbers. Furthermore, I watch both teams quite often and Allens ability to escape a broken down pocket exceeds Prescotts. On top of that, Prescott is older, has been in the league longer, and has had a better roster around him every year of his career, minus last year arguably. I don't think many would argue against the cowboys having much better offensive weapons the past few years than the bills. 

 

If Josh has the season in 2020 Dak had last year people will be falling over themselves to crown Josh as the franchise QB. And rightly so. It constantly amazes me how much Bills fans want to downplay other QBs. It is the most bizarre of defense mechanisms. 

[DocLawless]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If Josh has the season in 2020 Dak had last year people will be falling over themselves to crown Josh as the franchise QB. And rightly so. It constantly amazes me how much Bills fans want to downplay other QBs. It is the most bizarre of defense mechanisms. 

I am not downplaying Dak's ability as a QB. He is the better QB right now for sure. And I want to be clear that I think Dak is a good quarterback, albeit not an all time great yet. I also think Josh Allen has some things still to prove/improve on before being crowned a franchise QB. However, I do think Dak is NOT worth the money he wants, and i think he has had better weapons than a lot of quarterbacks get to work with. Why can't I say that? His line has been notoriously good. His running back is a star. Has had Dez Bryant and Amari Cooper throughout his career. I was arguing about what I have seen with my own eyes about rushing, and that is that Josh Allens mobility is greater than Dak Prescotts. As far as downplaying other QB's as a defense mechanism, what are you talking about? You don't know me from Adam. I give props and accolades to many other QB's including Tom Brady, even thought I hate the pats. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by DocLawless

[Billl]

15 minutes ago, DocLawless said:

Now do 2018. Dak ran 75 times for 301 yards averaging 4.1 YPC. He also fumbled the ball 12 times. Allen ran 89 times for 631 averaging 7.1 YPC, with 8 fumbles. I could be wrong here, but I believe it has been said that Allen was told to run less and focus more on being a pocket passer in 2019, which would explain the regression of those numbers. Furthermore, I watch both teams quite often and Allens ability to escape a broken down pocket exceeds Prescotts. On top of that, Prescott is older, has been in the league longer, and has had a better roster around him every year of his career, minus last year arguably. I don't think many would argue against the cowboys having much better offensive weapons the past few years than the bills. 

Dak has 31 fumbles in 64 starts.  Allen has 22 in 27 starts, so I don’t know what you’re getting at there.  When it comes to running ability, they’re the same guy.  Josh’s running ability stands out because it’s his biggest skill.  Nobody talks about Dak being an equally effective runner because he threw for 5,000 yards and 30 TDs.

 

You've really got to split hairs to say one is better than the other, but with all else being so equal, give me the guy who fumbles a little less than once every two games versus the guy who fumbles a little less than once a game.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, DocLawless said:

I am not downplaying Dak's ability as a QB. He is the better QB right now for sure. And I want to be clear that I think Dak is a good quarterback, albeit not an all time great yet. I also think Josh Allen has some things still to prove/improve on before being crowned a franchise QB. However, I do think Dak is NOT worth the money he wants, and i think he has had better weapons than a lot of quarterbacks get to work with. Why can't I say that? His line has been notoriously good. His running back is a star. Has had Dez Bryant and Amari Cooper throughout his career. I was arguing about what I have seen with my own eyes about rushing, and that is that Josh Allens mobility is greater than Dak Prescotts. As far as downplaying other QB's as a defense mechanism, what are you talking about? You don't know me from Adam. I give props and accolades to many other QB's including Tom Brady, even thought I hate the pats. 

 

The Cowboys need to pay Dak. And they need to do it soon. 

[DocLawless]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

Dak has 31 fumbles in 64 starts.  Allen has 22 in 27 starts, so I don’t know what you’re getting at there.  When it comes to running ability, they’re the same guy.  Josh’s running ability stands out because it’s his biggest skill.  Nobody talks about Dak being an equally effective runner because he threw for 5,000 yards and 30 TDs.

 

You've really got to split hairs to say one is better than the other, but with all else being so equal, give me the guy who fumbles a little less than once every two games versus the guy who fumbles a little less than once a game.

Nice dude! Cowboys are always looking for more fans I'm sure. Ill take the younger guy with higher potential who has had to run for his life, play with Zay Jones as his number 1 receiver and a patchwork O-line. 

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Cowboys need to pay Dak. And they need to do it soon. 

He should be the highest paid QB in the league? He turned down top 3 money. Glad you aren't in Beanes position. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, DocLawless said:

 

He should be the highest paid QB in the league? He turned down top 3 money. Glad you aren't in Beanes position. 

 

We have been over this so many times recently. The way QB contracts work these days is you pay a guy for 5 years. The first one he is hideously overpaid in comparison to his peers. The second one he is a bit overpaid. The third he is paid about where he should be in the market and the 4th he is slightly underpaid. The 5th year you would get him at a bargain price but of course you don't because they then want an extension. 

 

If you believe your QB is top 10 you need to be willing to pay them top 2 money in terms of average per year when you sign them. That is just the way the market works now. Derek Carr was the top paid QB in the league for a park drive minute when he signed his deal and now he is outside the top 10. 

 

You better resign yourself to to fact that because he is a year behind in the cycle if Josh earns a deal the Bills will have to pay him pretty much Mahomes money. And the year after the Cardinals will likely have to put Kyler in that bracket too. It is just the way the QB market is now. 

[DocLawless]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We have been over this so many times recently. The way QB contracts work these days is you pay a guy for 5 years. The first one he is hideously overpaid in comparison to his peers. The second one he is a bit overpaid. The third he is paid about where he should be in the market and the 4th he is slightly underpaid. The 5th year you would get him at a bargain price but of course you don't because they then want an extension. 

 

If you believe your QB is top 10 you need to be willing to pay them top 2 money in terms of average per year when you sign them. That is just the way the market works now. Derek Carr was the top paid QB in the league for a park drive minute when he signed his deal and now he is outside the top 10. 

 

You better resign yourself to to fact that because he is a year behind in the cycle if Josh earns a deal the Bills will have to pay him pretty much Mahomes money. And the year after the Cardinals will likely have to put Kyler in that bracket too. It is just the way the QB market is now. 

That's fair, and I agree with you. However, if you plan to assign such a large percentage of your cap to that position, you better be sure that your QB can win with a lesser roster than he is currently working with. AKA actually be the man. I guess this makes me realize how much I appreciate the Tom Brady attitude of being willing to make a little less in order to build a better team around him. Although there has been speculation he was still getting his money other ways. Who knows for sure though. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by DocLawless