The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[Doc]

If people (libs) are looking to blame deaths on the lack of PPE, again, that's on the Obama admin for not restocking it in the 6 years after H1N1.  Also, from scumbags who stole N95/regular masks as soon as they heard about Wuhan virus. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

47 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Our tests didn't work at first. And "Europe" didn't get hit hard, only parts of it did. 

 

Trump has proved himself perfectly incompetent in this affair. He doesn't pay attention to his NSC briefings, he admits that. That has cost lives here 

Couldn't you say the exact same thing about the US? 0.18% of the county's population has a confirmed case. Clearly that's not the case in NYC though. Does that fall on Trump? Or does that fall on Cuomo? Or does that fall on DiBlasio? It certainly seems like more of a local failure, although NYC has the perfect blend of population density, tourism, and reliance on public transportation to be incredibly vulnerable to a viral outbreak. 

[SirAndrew]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

If people (libs) are looking to blame deaths on the lack of PPE, again, that's on the Obama admin for not restocking it in the 6 years after H1N1.  Also, from scumbags who stole N95/regular masks as soon as they heard about Wuhan virus. 

I think any reasonable person knows the lack of PPE is bad, but I also think non-politically motivated people know there isn’t a specific person to be blame for the lack of PPE. It’s a failure that needs to be addressed by both parties, and we need to do better. Much of the issue has to do with the fact we need to fix our reliance on the supply chain from China. America needs to be able to supply itself with items in the time of crisis. If Europe wants to remain reliant on China, they can go for it .

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I think any reasonable person knows the lack of PPE is bad, but I also think non-politically motivated people know there isn’t a specific person to be blame for the lack of PPE. It’s a failure that needs to be addressed by both parties, and we need to do better. Much of the issue has to do with the fact we need to fix our reliance on the supply chain from China. America needs to be able to supply itself with items in the time of crisis. If Europe wants to remain reliant on China, they can go for it .

 

I disagree.  H1N1 depleted the PPE stockpiles and they should have been replaced immediately.  Pushing-it-off to another administration and giving them just 3 years to do so isn't a valid excuse.   

 

And a lot of medical manufacturing was shipped to China thanks to Obamacare.  That's not partisanship: it's fact.  For the past 3 years, Trump has been trying to get companies/manufacturing to return to the US and punishing China for unfair trade practices. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Doc

[dubs]

5 hours ago, JetsFan20 said:

It’s easy to sit here and say “life is full of risk” until you find yourself laying in a hospital bed. The reason why this is dangerous is that a lot folks have that “it can’t happen to me” attitude. 

 

I think you are going to get your wish, but let’s be real about it. The government likely knows that lifting restrictions is going to kill people. How many? Who knows, but those people will be sacrificed for economic reasons.
 

What is the moral thing to do here? At the very least you have to inform people of the risks and best prevention measures. Should our federal and local government also continue to enforce measures to protect people from risk? That’s the debate that is going to go on the next few weeks. 

It’s easy to say life is full of risks until you find yourself in a car accident, or a plane crash, or slip and fall in the shower, or get in a skiing accident, or get some other illness, or fall off a ladder, or drown while swimming, or get mugged, or choke on your dinner. 
 

Seriously though, what level of risk is acceptable for you?

[Warren Zevon]

https://apnews.com/090600c299a8cf07f5b44d92534856

 

US 'wasted' months before preparing for coronavirus pandemic

 

A review of federal purchasing contracts by The Associated Press shows federal agencies largely waited until mid-March to begin placing bulk orders of N95 respirator masks, mechanical ventilators and other equipment needed by front-line health care workers.

By that time, hospitals in several states were treating thousands of infected patients without adequate equipment and were pleading for shipments from the Strategic National Stockpile. That federal cache of supplies was created more than 20 years ago to help bridge gaps in the medical and pharmaceutical supply chains during a national emergency.

_________________

No matter what side you're on this was a ***** up. 

[billsfan1959]

8 minutes ago, Gary Busey said:

https://apnews.com/090600c299a8cf07f5b44d92534856

 

US 'wasted' months before preparing for coronavirus pandemic

 

A review of federal purchasing contracts by The Associated Press shows federal agencies largely waited until mid-March to begin placing bulk orders of N95 respirator masks, mechanical ventilators and other equipment needed by front-line health care workers.

By that time, hospitals in several states were treating thousands of infected patients without adequate equipment and were pleading for shipments from the Strategic National Stockpile. That federal cache of supplies was created more than 20 years ago to help bridge gaps in the medical and pharmaceutical supply chains during a national emergency.

_________________

No matter what side you're on this was a ***** up. 

 

Are we back to this? Mid March is wasting "months?" You mean right around the same time the WHO declares a pandemic?

 

You are such a drama queen....

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by billsfan1959

[SirAndrew]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I disagree.  H1N1 depleted the PPE stockpiles and they should have been replaced immediately.  Pushing-it-off to another administration and giving them just 3 years to do so isn't a valid excuse.   

 

And a lot of medical manufacturing was shipped to China thanks to Obamacare.  That's not partisanship: it's fact.  For the past 3 years, Trump has been trying to get companies/manufacturing to return to the US and punishing China for unfair trade practices. 

I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I meant there is no sense in blaming specific individuals in the current administration, that is purely political. What we must do is address how the greatest country in earth ends up with a PPE shortage, and fix that problem. Americans have always fixed problems, we can’t allow partisan bickering to put people in harms way. Regardless of who is to blame, let’s stand up and fix the problem. We need actions, not rhetoric that sounds good. 

[Tiberius]

24 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Couldn't you say the exact same thing about the US? 0.18% of the county's population has a confirmed case. Clearly that's not the case in NYC though. Does that fall on Trump? Or does that fall on Cuomo? Or does that fall on DiBlasio? It certainly seems like more of a local failure, although NYC has the perfect blend of population density, tourism, and reliance on public transportation to be incredibly vulnerable to a viral outbreak. 

Trump was crying it was a hoax, nuff said. 

[billsfan1959]

4 hours ago, Hardhatharry said:

Trump is only worried about votes, so he tells everyone task force meeting about coronavirus and shows propaganda video instead. Disgusting look for anyone to do something like that, but when your only objective is votes you do dumb things.

 

Well, you are an expert in dumb

 

So, there's that....

[BuffaloHokie13]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Trump was crying it was a hoax, nuff said. 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

It's a hoax, over by April. 

 

Can't unring that bell Trumper. We will make you chock on it

[Buffalo_Gal]

4 hours ago, shoshin said:

Trump in that Press conference doubled down on his authority be sole and absolute to decide when and how to reopen the economy. It can be painful to watch him work. He is right legally, but now puts his base and many supporters who have been saying this is a state issue in an awkward spot. 

 

Relevant to something JetsFan (???) said above, if we reopen too soon and cases surge, hold your elected officials responsible. It would just show that they didn’t have the backbone to make sure this shutdown was worth it. Watch these plans to reopen with great interest. 

Pence went on to answer this, I posted his response somewhere in this thread.

Also:

National Emergncies Act US Coding

And now, for the first time All 50 states have a disaster declaration.

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal

[Troll Toll]

21 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Did we test at first to prevent the spread, or was Trump still calling it a hoax? 

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/covid-19-testing/

How the heck would we test millions of people in January? You don’t just pull tests out of thin air. We are still a long ways away from being able to do testing on hundreds of millions of people. There was nothing we could do to prevent the spread of this virus once it was here in January, we could only slow the spread. 
 

Personally, I think it may have already been widespread in the US before anyone realized it. We had people in my office at work in December/January that had a cough that was lasting weeks and weeks. I had a coworker out in Rochester that was hospitalized for pneumonia and had chest x-rays back around January 10th. It will be interesting to see how things shake out when we have widespread antibody testing. 
 

Red flags were going off for me that something different was going around well before the first diagnosed case in the US.

[Buffalo_Gal]

25 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I disagree.  H1N1 depleted the PPE stockpiles and they should have been replaced immediately.  Pushing-it-off to another administration and giving them just 3 years to do so isn't a valid excuse.   

 

And a lot of medical manufacturing was shipped to China thanks to Obamacare.  That's not partisanship: it's fact.  For the past 3 years, Trump has been trying to get companies/manufacturing to return to the US and punishing China for unfair trade practices. 

I was shocked at how cost prohibitive ObamaCare made certain products to be produced in the United States (like ventilators). I keep saying that I hope one piece of good to come out of this disaster is less regulations.  {crosses fingers}

 

[Tiberius]

8 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

How the heck would we test millions of people in January? You don’t just pull tests out of thin air. We are still a long ways away from being able to do testing on hundreds of millions of people. There was nothing we could do to prevent the spread of this virus once it was here in January, we could only slow the spread. 
 

Personally, I think it may have already been widespread in the US before anyone realized it. We had people in my office at work in December/January that had a cough that was lasting weeks and weeks. I had a coworker out in Rochester that was hospitalized for pneumonia and had chest x-rays back around January 10th. It will be interesting to see how things shake out when we have widespread antibody testing. 
 

Red flags were going off for me that something different was going around well before the first diagnosed case in the US.

First off, you take it seriously and don't try and blow it all off as a hoax, or say it will be over in April. 

 

You have to prepare. Biden will have an easy time exploiting this. Biden will just say, "I promise to take this job seriously. I will read my NSC briefs, I will listen to security briefings, not bloviate and lie for the news cycle." 

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I meant there is no sense in blaming specific individuals in the current administration, that is purely political. What we must do is address how the greatest country in earth ends up with a PPE shortage, and fix that problem. Americans have always fixed problems, we can’t allow partisan bickering to put people in harms way. Regardless of who is to blame, let’s stand up and fix the problem. We need actions, not rhetoric that sounds good. 

 

If that's what you meant then thanks for the clarification.  And I agree and think it will be addressed, properly.

 

As for blaming people, yes it doesn't help, but we can only fix the problem by adhering to guidelines and are here to discuss.  And lots of blame is being thrown around. 

 

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Tiberius said:

You have to prepare. Biden will have an easy time exploiting this. Biden will just say, "I promise to take this job of Senator seriously. I will read  wear my NSC briefs, I will listen to security briefings on my phonograph, and I will not bloviate and lie for the news cycles." 

 

FIFY

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

FIFY

Don't be a sore loser yet! Wait until November! 

 

 

[Troll Toll]

11 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

First off, you take it seriously and don't try and blow it all off as a hoax, or say it will be over in April. 

 

You have to prepare. Biden will have an easy time exploiting this. Biden will just say, "I promise to take this job seriously. I will read my NSC briefs, I will listen to security briefings, not bloviate and lie for the news cycle." 

He’ll have a hard time doing that when his own soundbytes say otherwise:

 

Chang's comments come after Biden mocked President Donald Trump's position on China at a campaign rally last week saying "China is going to eat our lunch? Come on, man...they can't even figure out how to deal with the fact that they have this great division between the China Sea and the mountains in the east, I mean in the west."

 

Biden continued "they can't figure out how they're going to deal with the corruption that exists within the system. I mean, you know, they're not bad folks, folks. But guess what, they're not, they're not competition for us."

 

Chang also took issue with Biden's characterization of Chinese leaders saying "he also said Chinese leaders are good folks, we know those same Chinese leaders are committing crimes against humanity. Locking up 1.1, maybe 3 million Uighurs, in concentration camp-like facilities where a not insubstantial number of them are dying. I just don't understand why he made that comment." 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Troll Toll

[billsfan1959]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Don't be a sore loser yet! Wait until November! 

 

HaaaHaaa! Please tell us the one again where Trump declared the virus a hoax. That's our favorite fairy tale and it almost sounds true the way you tell it.

 

No, really, it does. Honestly...

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by billsfan1959

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

He’ll have a hard time doing that when his own soundbytes say otherwise:

 

Chang's comments come after Biden mocked President Donald Trump's position on China at a campaign rally last week saying "China is going to eat our lunch? Come on, man...they can't even figure out how to deal with the fact that they have this great division between the China Sea and the mountains in the east, I mean in the west."

 

Biden continued "they can't figure out how they're going to deal with the corruption that exists within the system. I mean, you know, they're not bad folks, folks. But guess what, they're not, they're not competition for us."

 

Chang also took issue with Biden's characterization of Chinese leaders saying "he also said Chinese leaders are good folks, we know those same Chinese leaders are committing crimes against humanity. Locking up 1.1, maybe 3 million Uighurs, in concentration camp-like facilities where a not insubstantial number of them are dying. I just don't understand why he made that comment." 

lol, nope. Trump was the president and called it a hoax, people have figured out the emperor has no clothes. Biden will read and listen to the experts, nuff said

[Troll Toll]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

lol, nope. Trump was the president and called it a hoax, people have figured out the emperor has no clothes. Biden will read and listen to the experts, nuff said

First user to go on my Ignore List, congratulations!???? 

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

HaaaHaaa! Please tell us the one again where Trump declared the virus a hoax. That's our favorite fairy tale and it almost sounds true the way you tell it.

 

No, really, it does. Honestly...

 

If I told you you would just pretend he didn't say it and ask again. You probably won't even admit Trump has lost when he loses. 

 

Do you believe millions of illegal immigrants voted in 2016? 

How many people did Hillary murder or have murdered? 

 

Can you answer? 

[GG]

47 minutes ago, Gary Busey said:

https://apnews.com/090600c299a8cf07f5b44d92534856

 

US 'wasted' months before preparing for coronavirus pandemic

 

A review of federal purchasing contracts by The Associated Press shows federal agencies largely waited until mid-March to begin placing bulk orders of N95 respirator masks, mechanical ventilators and other equipment needed by front-line health care workers.

By that time, hospitals in several states were treating thousands of infected patients without adequate equipment and were pleading for shipments from the Strategic National Stockpile. That federal cache of supplies was created more than 20 years ago to help bridge gaps in the medical and pharmaceutical supply chains during a national emergency.

_________________

No matter what side you're on this was a ***** up. 

 

It's fair for AP to look at the deterioration of the federal stockpile.  It's not fair for AP to ignore the hospitals' and states' roles for inadequate supplies.  Kushner was right in the article.  Federal stockpile is for times when the primary supplies run out, not to be the first source.

 

Also interesting is that prior to March 30, media was running a lot of stories about thefts of critical PPE equipment.  Suddenly on March 30, the narrative changed on a dime.  Wonder what happened?

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

HaaaHaaa! Please tell us the one again where Trump declared the virus a hoax. That's our favorite fairy tale and it almost sounds true the way you tell it.

 

No, really, it does. Honestly...

 

He restricted travel from China before anyone else did and Fauci has said he's taken it seriously and listened to him/them from the beginning.  But hey, he said it was a hoax!

[TPS]

2 hours ago, Magox said:

 

So you're saying that the CDC, NIH, Fauci and medical experts throughout the country were waiting for Trump to give them the green light to begin working on this?

 

Is that what you're implying?

Not at all.  Of course the CDC et al are doing what they should be doing. What I'm saying and what I said in real time, the messaging from the top was to downplay the virus so as not to harm the economy.  Kudlow saying it's under control, Trump talking about 15 cases, and the new demo hoax.  There are now a lot of articles about this internal debate.  

[billsfan1959]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

If I told you you would just pretend he didn't say it and ask again. You probably won't even admit Trump has lost when he loses. 

 

Do you believe millions of illegal immigrants voted in 2016? 

How many people did Hillary murder or have murdered? 

 

Can you answer? 

 

I give up, how many? 

[Doc]

24 minutes ago, Doc said:

As for blaming people, yes it doesn't help, but we can only fix the problem by adhering to guidelines and are here to discuss.  And lots of blame is being thrown around.

 

Let me add to this.  The Dems are already positioning themselves to try and impeach Trump again over this.  I think they'll find that the truths that come out will do more harm to them/Obama/Biden than they realize.

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Let me add to this.  The Dems are already positioning themselves to try and impeach Trump again over this.  I think they'll find that the truths that come out will do more harm to them/Obama/Biden than they realize.

 

Yep. They never learn...

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I give up, how many? 

So that's no to illegals voting in 2016? @3rdnlng You don't believe millions of illegals voted in 2016??? 

 

Do you also not believe Hillary is a mass murderer? Wow 

[Bockeye]

1 hour ago, dubs said:

It’s easy to say life is full of risks until you find yourself in a car accident, or a plane crash, or slip and fall in the shower, or get in a skiing accident, or get some other illness, or fall off a ladder, or drown while swimming, or get mugged, or choke on your dinner. 
 

Seriously though, what level of risk is acceptable for you?

Made this point in another thread, but WE take a risk and RISK OTHER PEOPLES lives every time we get into a vehicle.  Over 40,000 deaths from vehicle accidents in the US in 2018.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-13/traffic-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-40-000-for-third-straight-year

 

Do you consider this risk whenever you get into your car?  Do you care about other peoples lives and the fact you may kill them inadvertently (and without discrimination - young, old, pregnant women, entire family, etc). 

 

Think about that next time you hop into a car to go to get an ice cream on a sunny day. 

 

Get the fact we do not want to overcrowd hospitals in hot spots, but YES there is an acceptable level of risk. 

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

So that's no to illegals voting in 2016? @3rdnlng You don't believe millions of illegals voted in 2016??? 

 

Do you also not believe Hillary is a mass murderer? Wow 

 

WTF are you going on about? When have I ever posted anything about illegal immigrants voting or Hillary murdering people?

 

I replied to you about your hoax story. Do you have the ability to discern who and what you are responding to, or do you just post whatever nonsensical, random thought that comes into your head? 

[GG]

10 minutes ago, TPS said:

Not at all.  Of course the CDC et al are doing what they should be doing. What I'm saying and what I said in real time, the messaging from the top was to downplay the virus so as not to harm the economy.  Kudlow saying it's under control, Trump talking about 15 cases, and the new demo hoax.  There are now a lot of articles about this internal debate.  

 

I wonder about the spin of the new articles.  Remember eons ago (last week) when Peter Navarro was hailed for his prescient "warning" to shut down the economy?   Well, here's the Revered Peter, courtesy of the paper of "record."

 

Quote   • Peter Navarro, the White House trade adviser, told Alan Rappeport of The Times that medical experts and others pushing for a prolonged shutdown were “tone deaf” to the dangers: “They piously preen on their soap boxes speaking only half of the medical truth without reference or regard for the other half of the equation, which is the very real mortal dangers associated with the closure of the economy for an extended period.”

[Bockeye]

8 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

So that's no to illegals voting in 2016? @3rdnlng You don't believe millions of illegals voted in 2016??? 

 

Do you also not believe Hillary is a mass murderer? Wow 

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/440136-if-you-dont-think-illegal-immigrants-are-voting-for-president-think-again

 

No, illegal immigrants aren’t allowed to directly vote for the commander-in-chief yet, but in vast numbers they can dramatically alter the Electoral College to favor Democrats for at least a decade because a state’s electoral votes are based on the number of people residing within that state, not the number of citizens present when the Decennial Census is taken.

If a nefarious power grab seems far-fetched, ask yourself this — why are Democrats so intent on blocking the addition of a citizenship question to the 2020 Census?

It is clear the presence of illegal immigrants can bolster a state’s electoral power, even one that is already arctic blue. Something tells me the Democrats’ keen interest in the plight of the much ballyhooed dreamers has a similar ulterior motive as well.

[Boatdrinks]

18 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

lol, nope. Trump was the president and called it a hoax, people have figured out the emperor has no clothes. Biden will read and listen to the experts, nuff said

Biden barely has 10 functioning brain cells. He won’t be President, thank goodness. If he were, economic devastation would follow along with surrendering of liberties and a spiral into socialism. I see how you love the socialist Democratic Governors pooling together to save us from ourselves. It must suck to be that internally soft, Tibs ; to live in absolute fear of not having government protection from everything life might throw at you. 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Bockeye said:

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/440136-if-you-dont-think-illegal-immigrants-are-voting-for-president-think-again

 

No, illegal immigrants aren’t allowed to directly vote for the commander-in-chief yet, but in vast numbers they can dramatically alter the Electoral College to favor Democrats for at least a decade because a state’s electoral votes are based on the number of people residing within that state, not the number of citizens present when the Decennial Census is taken.

If a nefarious power grab seems far-fetched, ask yourself this — why are Democrats so intent on blocking the addition of a citizenship question to the 2020 Census?

It is clear the presence of illegal immigrants can bolster a state’s electoral power, even one that is already arctic blue. Something tells me the Democrats’ keen interest in the plight of the much ballyhooed dreamers has a similar ulterior motive as well.

So that is a yes, they did and Trump wasn't lying about it.

 

Gotcha! ?

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

Biden barely has 10 functioning brain cells. He won’t be President, thank goodness. If he were, economic devastation would follow along with surrendering of liberties and a spiral into socialism. I see how you love the socialist Democratic Governors pooling together to save us from ourselves. It must suck to be that internally soft, Tibs ; to live in absolute fear of not having government protection from everything life might throw at you. 

Biden is brain dead, that's the Trump party line. I've heard it, it's stupid and you guys will keep repeating it. 

 

It work work, he wasn't saying the pandemic was a hoax, now that's stupid! 

 

Trump really is an idiot 

[MILFHUNTER#518]

Tweet of the week!?

 

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1250075668282576898?s=19

[Gene Frenkle]

2 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

Tweet of the week!?

 

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1250075668282576898?s=19

 

I can't think of many things that would feel less Presidential, but that's pretty much just Par for the course. Speaking of which, good hunting.

[Magox]

Just now, TPS said:

Not at all.  Of course the CDC et al are doing what they should be doing. What I'm saying and what I said in real time, the messaging from the top was to downplay the virus so as not to harm the economy.  Kudlow saying it's under control, Trump talking about 15 cases, and the new demo hoax.  There are now a lot of articles about this internal debate.  

 

Ok, if you are talking about the messaging from the top down.  Then I agree with you.  That was Trump's biggest mistake, how he downplayed it.

 

But if you are referring to the substance, then I don't see how anyone else could have altered the response from what the CDC, Fauci, Medical Experts or the NIH.