Jump to content
bighorn_zilla

Who would be our Steve Bartman or Bill Buckner

Recommended Posts

Long time reader, First Time writer. 

 

In connection with some talk about “running the table” and being the number 1 seed in the AFC, my mind made a greater leap – I know “getting way ahead of myself” – to winning the super bowl and what it would feel like.  For context, I have been a fan since 1967 and am old enough to remember nearly the Bills entire history. 

 

With that said, I started thinking about other franchises in similar situations, the Cubs ending the 108-year drought or the Boston Red Sox and the 86-year period of futility from 1918 to 2004 and how their fans reacted.  In the case of each referenced franchise, as part of their celebrations, each "forgave" someone - the Cubs “forgave” Steve Bartman and the Sox “forgave” Bill Buckner. 

 

In case of my great leap, to me, the obvious response for the Bills would be player Scott Norwood.  But I would like to read TBD’s responses – it can be a player (Tom Demsey failing to break the Dolphin streak, Ronnie Harmon for dropping Kelly’s pass in the endzone), fan (the dude who slide off the upper deck), coach (Wade Phillips for getting over run by the owner with the Flutie/Johnson thing), owner, GM, event.  Who or What would you "forgive?"

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ronnie Harmon - but I wouldn't forgive him

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Haha (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Respectfully,  I can’t help but read the above and think along the lines of, “Yeah, yeah, I know Hitler started WW 2, but besides him why did that thing get going?”

 

 

In short...

 

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Scott.

 

Norwood.

 

 

 

Edited by dollars 2 donuts
  • Like (+1) 6
  • Haha (+1) 1
  • Awesome! (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have anything against either of these guys, but my two nominees are Scott Norwood (obviously) and Bruce DeHaven (cover the kickoff).  Those two gentlemen headline a cast of characters that I associate with bad memories as a Bills fan.  

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

I don't have anything against either of these guys, but my two nominees are Scott Norwood (obviously) and Bruce DeHaven (cover the kickoff).  Those two gentlemen headline a cast of characters that I associate with bad memories as a Bills fan.  

 

These two have to be the finalists, but because of the significance of the game, Norwood is the easy winner (or it that loser?).

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has to be Norwood, best alignment with Buckner. Buckner makes the play, series is over. Norwood makes the kick, Bills win Super Bowl. Buckner's play was more routine vs. a 47 yard FG but it's a very makeable kick. 

 

Norwood was only 37-61 for his career from 40-49 yards (61%). I was surprised to see Christie was only 67% (77-115) for career though 70.4% for Bills. Even Rian Lindell was only 68% for the Bills and 67% for his career from 40-49. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Respectfully,  I can’t help but read the above and think along the lines of, “Yeah, yeah, I know Hitler started WW 2, but besides him why did that thing get going?”

 

 

In short...

 

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Scott.

 

Norwood.

 

 

 

There's no doubt it's wide right... Anyone else notice the Cowboys missed a 47 yard fg wide right on Thursday?

Edited by Motorin'
  • Like (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ralph Wilson and Marv as GM with their "cash to the cap" approach that basically said they were content with being mediocre

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Awesome! (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its Norwood 100%.

 

His name is linked to the team in the consciousness of every sports fan.  

 

While most Bills fans do not hold any ill will toward Norwood...  There would be a storyline nationally of Norwood's spirit being free if the Bills won the Superbowl.  

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, bighorn_zilla said:

Long time reader, First Time writer. 

 

In connection with some talk about “running the table” and being the number 1 seed in the AFC, my mind made a greater leap – I know “getting way ahead of myself” – to winning the super bowl and what it would feel like.  For context, I have been a fan since 1967 and am old enough to remember nearly the Bills entire history. 

 

With that said, I started thinking about other franchises in similar situations, the Cubs ending the 108-year drought or the Boston Red Sox and the 86-year period of futility from 1918 to 2004 and how their fans reacted.  In the case of each referenced franchise, as part of their celebrations, each "forgave" someone - the Cubs “forgave” Steve Bartman and the Sox “forgave” Bill Buckner. 

 

In case of my great leap, to me, the obvious response for the Bills would be player Scott Norwood.  But I would like to read TBD’s responses – it can be a player (Tom Demsey failing to break the Dolphin streak, Ronnie Harmon for dropping Kelly’s pass in the endzone), fan (the dude who slide off the upper deck), coach (Wade Phillips for getting over run by the owner with the Flutie/Johnson thing), owner, GM, event.  Who or What would you "forgive?"

nice first post. welcome to TBD.

 

There gave been several goats (Norwood, Harmon, the ref who made the incorrect call on the Home Run Throw Forward, the McKelvin fumble, even the beloved Jim Kelly for his 4 stupid interceptions in a 37-24 loss in SB XXVI). 

 

To me the most egregious goats were the Tragedy in Tennessee Ref and the McKelvin fumble on MNF opening week that killed the entire season for me (I mean what's he thinking?). I will likely never forgive these two even if we win 10 superbowls. 

 

But I will forgive (maybe I already have)  Norwood. Just because of the stage, it might have been the play with the biggest impact. But I do feel sorry for the guy. He had never made a 47 yarder on grass ever. So it was not a gimme by any means.  I think he lives in Buffalo now and I remember a game where he was honored. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest I don’t think this team even thinks about this kind of thing. This team is based on good coaching, good player execution and good player talent. I think this will be happing to other teams not us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simple.  Norwood. Wide right.  Everything changes if he hits that FG.  

Edited by NewEra
  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim Kelly, he never played great in any of the Super Bowls and quite frankly his clock management in that last drive in Super Bowl XXV was questionable at best. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

There's no doubt it's wide right... Anyone else notice the Cowboys 8missed a 47 yard fg wide right on Thursday?

Wide right was very significant...that was a game that the Bills should have won. They would have had a place in history.

Edited by Rocket94
  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, bighorn_zilla said:

Long time reader, First Time writer. 

 

In connection with some talk about “running the table” and being the number 1 seed in the AFC, my mind made a greater leap – I know “getting way ahead of myself” – to winning the super bowl and what it would feel like.  For context, I have been a fan since 1967 and am old enough to remember nearly the Bills entire history. 

 

With that said, I started thinking about other franchises in similar situations, the Cubs ending the 108-year drought or the Boston Red Sox and the 86-year period of futility from 1918 to 2004 and how their fans reacted.  In the case of each referenced franchise, as part of their celebrations, each "forgave" someone - the Cubs “forgave” Steve Bartman and the Sox “forgave” Bill Buckner. 

 

In case of my great leap, to me, the obvious response for the Bills would be player Scott Norwood.  But I would like to read TBD’s responses – it can be a player (Tom Demsey failing to break the Dolphin streak, Ronnie Harmon for dropping Kelly’s pass in the endzone), fan (the dude who slide off the upper deck), coach (Wade Phillips for getting over run by the owner with the Flutie/Johnson thing), owner, GM, event.  Who or What would you "forgive?"

Whippersnapper 🤨

Kemp’s errant endzone pass that Johnny Robinson returned all the way for a TD in the ‘66 title game.

 

P.S. Oldtimers use eyeglasses, not bigger font.😉

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Haha (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe it has to be Scott Norwood. If he makes a tough, but very makeable 47 yard FG, the Bills not only win the Super Bowl, but, IMO, impacts the team in following three Super Bowls, from a psychological perspective - particularly the last two. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Norwood is the obvious and easy target.

 

He doesnt deserve it, but it would be him. He was automatic for years, and then goes and misses an easy one in our most "winnable" Super Bowl which set the losing tone for the next 3. Even if we had just won only that first Super Bowl, the team and franchise would be looked at completely differently.

 

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Call this topic into the junior varsity talk show on GR after Shtupp and Bulldog.  Sounds like something they would enjoy feigning rage over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Norwood is the obvious and easy target.

 

He doesnt deserve it, but it would be him. He was automatic for years, and then goes and misses an easy one in our most "winnable" Super Bowl which set the losing tone for the next 3. Even if we had just won only that first Super Bowl, the team and franchise would be looked at completely differently.

 

This fits b/c to a certain degree, Bartman and Buckner, and for the most part every major scapegoat, does not really deserve the scorn. In Bartman's case there were many people going for the ball and it's not his fault that the Cubs blew a very large lead after Bartman "interfered." On the other hand, Buckner's error came after the Red Sox had already blown a lead they shouldn't have and has overshadowed the wild pitch thrown by Bob Stanley which allowed the Mets to tie the game. It's made even sadder by the fact that Buckner had been playing through immense pain and to paraphrase Dante Hicks, "wasn't even supposed to be there", as it was standard for Dave Stapleton to come in as a defensive replacement in the 9th inning, but McNamara wanted Buckner, as a veteran who had played for the Cubs and Sox and had never been in the World Series before to be on the field to experience the final out. 

 

I was annoyed when Levy did not try another play (maybe a hitch to Thurman or a TE on the sideline) to get them closer and more safely in Norwood's range, so I never really saw the fairness in blaming Norwood for missing a kick that was at the edge of his ability, and of that of most kickers. If Kelly was under pressure and threw a pass in the endzone just off the fingertips of a diving James Lofton as time expired, would either have been considered the "goat"? If it was, say, a 54-yard field goal, would he still be the "goat"? However, all that being said, the miss was the closest this team has ever got to the NFL's ultimate goal, so even if it's not really fair, for the purposes of this thought experiment, one would have to say he fits the bill. 

 

FWIW, one could argue that Thurman's fumble in Super Bowl XXVIII was more egregious as they were leading when it happened and it changed the trajectory of the game, but there seems to be a consensus that it was more a factor of the team having no confidence after three losses, and that they looked as if they had already given up hope during halftime, even with a 13-7 lead.

 

(And was I the only one who had flashbacks watching an interminable halftime performance with the Bills having a 13-7 lead over the Cowboys -- to a degree, I blame awful country music for the Bills lack of a Super Bowl trophy.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...