D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) The NHL has a new approach to challenges this year. You can challenge as much as you want, with the caveat, when you are wrong, you get a 2min penalty the first time and 4min double minor after that! What this has done is eliminate many frivolous reviews and stoppages. The game as a result is at 2:28, the shortest in years, and some games have no challenges. It has largely reduced the nasty Offside reviews in super slo-mo after a goal and goalie interferences. In short, if its not important and crystal clear enough- it isn't being challenged. How about something similar in the NFL? And, I'm not looking for football is different than hockey. Honestly, Do you think it has potential to solve some issues? I do! Now I'm old enough to remember the Mike Renfro non-catch for the Oilers against the Steelers in the championship game. This would be an example of a scoring play well worth the challenge and end result. Given the score and situation, we can all come up with dozens of plays that were worth a challenge and perhaps the consequences perhaps a 5 yard pen and loss of TO, 10 yard pen, 15 yards , etc. (this can be worked out easily enough). What I see and hear is "we just want to get it right" . Well excuse me, but does anybody really see that things are better. We have review and challenges that everyone in the world can see and still get it wrong. Furthermore, I'm sick of the first quarter 4 yard out pass for a first down and review (sarcasm). If its crystal clear and worth it, then go for it and suffer the consequences, if not, let's not interrupt the flow of the game. Could the call in the Saints/Rams game have been corrected? Sure, I don't see why not, and these are the ones that really matter. NFL football was better when you had to overcome some of the minute in game calls, and you just played on. An example might go something like this. You are called for lining up Offside on third down, it keeps a drive going in the second quarter, you have a 50/50 chance of being correct from your video guy upstairs. Is it worth it? Or, is it damn, it went against us , the refs aren't always right. Play on. My personal caveat is, I don't want a team to get screwed when it really matters, like Mike Renfro, and the Saints. And, they wouldn't. Why shouldn't it cost you to challenge the officiating? Let's improve the flow of the game, and reduce the number of frivolous challenges. Edited November 19, 2019 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) I'm confused. You want to increase the likelihood of getting more accurate calls on reviews by punishing the challenger when the result isn't in their favor? Or you want to increase the likelihood of getting more accurate calls on reviews by reducing the number of challenges? Edited November 19, 2019 by BringBackFlutie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassgixxer05 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) Im OK with this if they actually get the call right. So many reviews have clear evidence on what the call should be and somehow the ref looks at it and rules it complete opposite. The fact that they would get the call wrong after review and then give that team a penalty on top of it, would have fan bases storming the field to string up the refs.. lol Edited November 19, 2019 by badassgixxer05 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I like the idea but I would prefer they find a way to simply improve officiating the fist time around. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I'm actually surprised the NFL hasn't moved to the "Is this the right call? Text your answer to xxxxxx. Sponsored by T-Mobile" to get more sponsorship money. 4 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, BringBackFlutie said: I'm confused. You want to increase the likelihood of getting more accurate calls on reviews by punishing the challenger when the result isn't in their favor? Or you want to increase the likelihood of getting more accurate calls on reviews by reducing the number of challenges? Neither. The NHL has achieved a positive result by letting you challenge as much as you want, but with consequences when it is not crystal clear and worth it to you. The flow of the game is better than trying to achieve the perfection standard of officiating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I think the league should give each team one renewable challenge per half. If you're right, you keep getting one more every time you're right. If you're wrong, you're done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I like the idea but I would prefer they find a way to simply improve officiating the fist time around. Yes. A major effort to reform officiating and improve its consistency is long overdue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said: Im OK with this if they actually get the call right. So many reviews have clear evidence on what the call should be and somehow the ref looks at it and rules it complete opposite. The fact that they would get the call wrong after review and then on top give that team a penalty on top of it, would have fan bases storming the field to string up the refs.. lol Could what you describe happen? Yes. However, I think you would find that only egregious calls would be challenged. The ones that the league would understand that if its challenged, then it must be worth it to the team. Therefore, we need to take a better look at it. 11 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I like the idea but I would prefer they find a way to simply improve officiating the fist time around. 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yes. A major effort to reform officiating and improve its consistency is long overdue. No argument from me. I would also like to see a review of overly technical rules, which cause problems for the officials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 How about a challenge you lose costs you 3 points? THAT'S some skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I like where this whole "some real skin in the game" is going. However I would suggest they go a little further. Have an independent review panel for all challenges. If the coach loses the call he gets a solid kick in the nards but if he wins the challenge the ref must receive a similar fate. ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Seasons1992 said: How about a challenge you lose costs you 3 points? THAT'S some skin. I doubt that could be sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassgixxer05 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said: I like where this whole "some real skin in the game" is going. However I would suggest they go a little further. Have an independent review panel for all challenges. If the coach loses the call he gets a solid kick in the nards but if he wins the challenge the ref must receive a similar fate. I agree with the review panel part. Needs to be some sort of war room set up somewhere with a group of educated Sr officials reviewing these plays live and phones in a ruling to on field referee after. This would keep rulings equal across the NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I think the NFL should scrap reviews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said: How about a challenge you lose costs you 3 points? THAT'S some skin. Imagine winning a football game by scoring 0 points but the other team has -6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said: I agree with the review panel part. Needs to be some sort of war room set up somewhere with a group of educated Sr officials reviewing these plays live and phones in a ruling to on field referee after. This would keep rulings equal across the NFL. I all seriousness I think that is the way to do it. I think that they should see the footage and not know the original ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said: I like where this whole "some real skin in the game" is going. However I would suggest they go a little further. Have an independent review panel for all challenges. If the coach loses the call he gets a solid kick in the nards but if he wins the challenge the ref must receive a similar fate. ? Now there's a novel idea! 4 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: I think the NFL should scrap reviews Even on scoring plays? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 How about this? If you lose the challenge, you sacrifice a timeout. Oh, wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 13 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Imagine winning a football game by scoring 0 points but the other team has -6 THIS is the kind of positive thinking that we need more of around here!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 42 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I like the idea but I would prefer they find a way to simply improve officiating the fist time around. I just don't think this is possible. I hear a lot about how bad the officiating is getting...but I dont see it. in the 80s and 90s bad calls were expected and understood...and THEY HAPPENED, a LOT. Now we micro-evaluate everything, create a MEME and talk about it in real time on twitter...frame by frame. There is no way for a human to watch and see everything right, sometimes the camera has a better angle. Oh and they constantly add new rules and never remove any so the refs have more to watch for. If you want it RIGHT, then technology has to be part of the equation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Fire Al Riveron and maybe something like this is an option. Until then he’s just going to call penalties based on mystical variables like how much cash he can get from Kraft and whether or not he got laid the night before. Having Riveron in charge make all other changes futile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Losing a TO is plenty of skin. Timeouts in the NFL are gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said: Fire Al Riveron and maybe something like this is an option. Until then he’s just going to call penalties based on mystical variables like how much cash he can get from Kraft and whether or not he got laid the night before. Having Riveron in charge make all other changes futile. You aren't kidding. That clown seems to be on his own train...hopefully out of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: You aren't kidding. That clown seems to be on his own train...hopefully out of town. Nah. He’s sitting in NY with a pile of blow and riding the hamburger train to ego town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 22 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said: I agree with the review panel part. Needs to be some sort of war room set up somewhere with a group of educated Sr officials reviewing these plays live and phones in a ruling to on field referee after. This would keep rulings equal across the NFL. 18 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said: I all seriousness I think that is the way to do it. I think that they should see the footage and not know the original ruling. In essence, this is what the league has tried to do with replays going through NY central office & Riveron. In this way the idea would be achieving consistency. The implementation of it, however, has been a complete disaster, especially WRT PI calls & non-calls. At this point, I’m 100 percent certain that the league uses refs to both favor certain teams & players or as a way to nudge keeping game scores closer for viewership / ratings. I haven’t watched NHL much in awhile, but it seemed to me that in the new era, the refs there aren’t the media whores they are in the NFL. And it’s a consistent job rather than 16 games a year. It might be an idea to just lock away the replay people and give them no info on what the original call was and no contact with the refs on the field other than delivering a verdict. That might help, both in actual bias or perceived bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 49 minutes ago, mattynh said: I just don't think this is possible. I hear a lot about how bad the officiating is getting...but I dont see it. in the 80s and 90s bad calls were expected and understood...and THEY HAPPENED, a LOT. Now we micro-evaluate everything, create a MEME and talk about it in real time on twitter...frame by frame. There is no way for a human to watch and see everything right, sometimes the camera has a better angle. Oh and they constantly add new rules and never remove any so the refs have more to watch for. If you want it RIGHT, then technology has to be part of the equation. The improvement needs to be in the form of splitting job for officials- one officials deals with one section of field and others break it up. The safety issues should be dealt with from the booth with a couple officials up there dealing with just facemasks/chop blocks/ safety issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I like the idea but I would prefer they find a way to simply improve officiating the fist time around. That sounds a bit excessive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) In hockey if they challenge and lose, they get accessed a 2 min penalty and I believe lose their only timeout. In football, all you lose is a timeout if you are wrong. So if a play is even marginally close and you are going to call a timeout anyway, challenge the play and get a long timeout. Should be a loss of timeout and a penalty. Unsportsmanlike maybe, 15 yards. That way you only challenge if you mean it. Games take too long as it is. Edited November 19, 2019 by CodeMonkey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagon127 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 hour ago, BringBackFlutie said: I'm confused. You want to increase the likelihood of getting more accurate calls on reviews by punishing the challenger when the result isn't in their favor? Or you want to increase the likelihood of getting more accurate calls on reviews by reducing the number of challenges? Challenges that are too difficult to overturn should be punished for wasting everybodys time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan692 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Uh.. you already have skin in the game it's not like timeouts are worthless.. they matter big time in the NFL. What is with all these fans saying no to reviews? I don't want my team to get !%!@%! # on in the superbowl because some ref made a bogus call and there is no ability/option to review it. People vest way too much into this sport for their to be no review process or for the review process to be marginalized. Why does the review process even bother you currently? There is literally nothing wrong with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 hour ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: Now there's a novel idea! Even on scoring plays? Yes It feels like video review in sports has gotten well past the critical mass and has diminished the sport(s). I think a hard reset needs to be done and everything reeled back to 1987 as far as that goes. Slowly introduce replay again one thing at a time until a hard reset is needed down the line. I really hate the feeling of being happy about a play, but needing to wait until the next play (or a review confirmation) in order to really be happy. I miss the days where an umpire called a play at the plate and that was the locked-in result. Sports are more fun and emotionally charged that way. Even with mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan692 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) "Games take too long" They take 3 hours and they always have, what else are you wanting to spend your 1pm-4pm block on Sundays doing? Listening to your wife complain? Good grief. The 5-10 minutes spent on the reviews pale in comparison to the TV-Commercial time outs, if you want to reduce the game times complain about that -- but that's not gonna change any time soon. less reviews, they just fill with more commercials. They don't want a shorter air time that is less revenue it makes no sense. The NHL who knows what they are thinking, their execs never been good at making the big bucks. Lets reduce the air time, that'll be great for sales! (lol) Edited November 19, 2019 by BillsFan692 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Get rid of the entire review process. It just keeps getting more and more complicated while doing nothing to eliminate mistakes from the game. It never will eliminate mistakes so just get rid of it. Try and get some freaking flow back into these games. They are so disjointed with flags, challenges, reviews, and commercials, they are tough to watch. My new favorite is the "commercial break even though we aren't at commercial break" where they kill the sound at the stadium, shrink the game screen down, and run a quick 10 second ad with sound on the right side of the screen. As I've said before, these games are a 3 hour commercial, occasionally interrupted by football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said: Uh.. you already have skin in the game it's not like timeouts are worthless.. they matter big time in the NFL. What is with all these fans saying no to reviews? I don't want my team to get !%!@%! # on in the superbowl because some ref made a bogus call and there is no ability/option to review it. People vest way too much into this sport for their to be no review process or for the review process to be marginalized. Why does the review process even bother you currently? There is literally nothing wrong with it. Didn't you even read the post? In no way would what I described create what you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan692 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Nextmanup said: Get rid of the entire review process. It just keeps getting more and more complicated while doing nothing to eliminate mistakes from the game. It never will eliminate mistakes so just get rid of it. Try and get some freaking flow back into these games. They are so disjointed with flags, challenges, reviews, and commercials, they are tough to watch. My new favorite is the "commercial break even though we aren't at commercial break" where they kill the sound at the stadium, shrink the game screen down, and run a quick 10 second ad with sound on the right side of the screen. As I've said before, these games are a 3 hour commercial, occasionally interrupted by football. That has nothing to do with the review process and will not be changing any time soon. What do you have better to be doing on Sunday from 3pm to 4pm then watching football anyways? Makes no sense! 1 minute ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: Didn't you even read the post? In no way would what I described create what you did. I was responding more to some of the comments in response to your OP that said they should "Get rid of the review process entirely". But I also don't think they should marginalize it either, get the calls right. I don't mind to wait a few moments while they review. I'll be spending that time watching buffalo wild wings commercials anyways even if the review process is gutted. Edited November 19, 2019 by BillsFan692 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Nextmanup said: Get rid of the entire review process. It just keeps getting more and more complicated while doing nothing to eliminate mistakes from the game. It never will eliminate mistakes so just get rid of it. Try and get some freaking flow back into these games. They are so disjointed with flags, challenges, reviews, and commercials, they are tough to watch. My new favorite is the "commercial break even though we aren't at commercial break" where they kill the sound at the stadium, shrink the game screen down, and run a quick 10 second ad with sound on the right side of the screen. As I've said before, these games are a 3 hour commercial, occasionally interrupted by football. I hope those kids don't stay on your lawn for too much longer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 2 hours ago, The Wiz said: I'm actually surprised the NFL hasn't moved to the "Is this the right call? Text your answer to xxxxxx. Sponsored by T-Mobile" to get more sponsorship money. The Patriots would never win a game again. Although, Belichick would find a way to employ bots like twitter. 2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Get rid of the entire review process. It was worse before review. See the 1998 Bills Pats game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, wagon127 said: Challenges that are too difficult to overturn should be punished for wasting everybodys time. But that doesn't fix the blatantly incorrect conclusions on reviewed plays. Furthermore, without fixing the accuracy of those conclusions, we're unnecessarily punishing those coaches who've challenged the calls. As it is, from a game duration point of view, there's already a mechanism in place to limit frivolous (time wasting) challenges: 1. you only have 2 to start 2. it costs a timeout if you're wrong 3. you only get a third chance if you were right both times, which makes sense because it's only fair to get more challenges if the officials have demonstrated an inability to make the right call on the field The OP is just replacing the current positive re-enforcement mechanism with a similar concept, in a negative re-enforcement context. The real issue is the quality of reviews, which drives the effectiveness of both mechanisms. Edited November 19, 2019 by BringBackFlutie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuseBill Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 You want coaches to have skin in the game...If their challenge is not successful, bring them back to the medical tent to be circumcised. We already have a neurologist on the sideline, why not a moyel too? That will cut down on the challenges for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 5 hours ago, badassgixxer05 said: Im OK with this if they actually get the call right. So many reviews have clear evidence on what the call should be and somehow the ref looks at it and rules it complete opposite. The fact that they would get the call wrong after review and then give that team a penalty on top of it, would have fan bases storming the field to string up the refs.. lol That sounds like good result except teams would be liable if they had special nights "hang the zebras" and gave everyone a noose when they entered stadium. 5 hours ago, TigerJ said: I think the league should give each team one renewable challenge per half. If you're right, you keep getting one more every time you're right. If you're wrong, you're done. And zebras one wrong review call a game and after 2nd you are suspended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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