McDermotts tie vs win mentality [edited title]

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Bills Juggernaut said:

Thanks for saying something I didn't say. I agree with the choice to kick it. It was before that, after the Singletary catch. They let the clock run down instead of trying to push the ball down the field. Once they let the clock keep running, they put themselves in a situation were there was no choice. 

 

But was that on the coaching or on Allen for not moving faster. And in Allen's case simple lack of experience.

[LSHMEAB]

16 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

A little post game reaction for you all. I see a lot of people already come out and put this game on Josh Allen mostly because all credit and all blame tend to go to the QB no matter what

I actually see quite the opposite. I see FAR MORE posts blaming everyone BUT Allen. 

 

This was a team loss, but Allen is not playing well enough as an NFL QB. Period.

[MAJBobby]

McConservative was just out coached by the worst Coach in the league. 
 

in a few weeks we will hear the It’s the NFL it’s hard to win (Dicky J catch phrase) followed by the Process ambiguity crap (McConservative catch Phrase)

[Nuncha]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

BS?  The truth is BS?  Ok dude...

Your opinion is the "truth"?? LOL whatever bro

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Don’t turn the ball over. Sit on leads. Don’t be aggressive offensively or have a sense of urgency because that risks turning the ball over. McDermott coaching 101.??

You had me until don't be aggressive offensively..umm we are too aggressive offensively...i think you meant defensively then i can agree..its a severe weakness of frazier

Edited November 10, 2019 by Billever76

[london_bills]

1 hour ago, Bills Juggernaut said:

How you can play for a game tying 53 yard field goal when the offense is moving the ball well and at least not try to get close with one timeout in your pocket let alone try to actually win the game with a TD is mind boggling to most fans that have watched the Pats do it for the last 15 years.......

But not for old school McD. He is who he is and this year has proved it. Play not to loose. That's why every game has been close this year. That's why the 3rd Q's have been horrible on offense (we are keeping it close so let's not make a mistake, let's play keep it close in the 4th Q). That's his mentality in a nutshell. He will win games (and most of them will always be closer than they need to be), but you will have games like this all the time. That's what a play not to make a mistake and play not to loose coach will get you. 

I'm in the Allen not being good enough camp but I take your point about mcdermott at times. Is Allen great with a mcvay type coach? I don't know. With a record like 6-3 he isn't going anywhere though. 

[whorlnut]

Just now, Azucho98 said:

Your opinion is the "truth"?? LOL whatever bro

First...I’m not your “bro”. Second...it’s not BS at all. McD is way too conservative. He’s on his third season of proof for that “opinion”. Keep being you...

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, chef4131 said:

I don’t think they have faith in Allen

Funny bc passing it 40 times a game doesn't back your claims....seems they dont trust singletary or the oline to run block

[Nuncha]

2 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

First...I’m not your “bro”. Second...it’s not BS at all. McD is way too conservative. He’s on his third season of proof for that “opinion”. Keep being you...

The BS I was referring to was the TITLE that you edited.

 

A defensive minded coach NEEDS a good O coordinator.  Dabol was a horrible choice and has been an awful coordinator his entire career.

[Buffalo86]

I think McDermott stole a page from Levy's Super Bowl XXV playbook.

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, Azucho98 said:

The BS I was referring to was the TITLE that you edited.

 

A defensive minded coach NEEDS a good O coordinator.  Dabol was a horrible choice and has been an awful coordinator his entire career.

I agree about Daboll. He was NEVER good as an OC and McD thinks he’s all of a sudden going to be good here?  What a joke. 
 

And I didn’t edit anything. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

That was sickening, absolute vomit-worthy. How do you just let 20+ seconds just wind off the clock there and go for the tie instead of TRYING TO WIN THE GAME???

 

What kind of coach is even thinking about only trying to force OT there with that much time on the clock and a timeout in your pocket??

If we’re being aggressive there and Josh throws a pick, I can live with that. I can live with putting the game in the hands of who we hope will be our franchise QB’s hands and living or dying. That last drive had a couple of the best throws he made all day. He wasn’t good at all, but if we’re not even going to attempt to give him the shot to win the game, what’s the point of any of this?

 

I will just never understand this mentality. It’s the same mentality McD has when he gives up free possessions at the end of a half with sufficient time and timeouts left on the board. 

 

This isn’t a true winning, killer instinct mentality, and that’s why when we’ve been hit with adversity from a couple of the good teams we have faced in the Pats and Eagles, we didn’t respond. 

 

McD is a play not to lose coach, not a play to win coach. It’s a huge problem. This can not permeate into the rest of the organization to be a perennial mediocre-to-solid team every year. I fear more than ever that this won’t be the guy to bring us over the top, but that people will be satisfied simply because it’s better than what we had before. 

All good and accurate points. He's way too conservative. He takes way too long deciding to release a player or coach. They had plenty of time to get closer or God forbid try to score a td. He's not taking this team to the next level. He is good at building a team bond (process, culture,  whatever) but nothing else. In other words he's just a really good DC.....

[1st&ten]

8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I actually see quite the opposite. I see FAR MORE posts blaming everyone BUT Allen. 

 

This was a team loss, but Allen is not playing well enough as an NFL QB. Period.

 

Well Allen needs to improve but our offensive line is still terrible---can't run the ball in crucial situations, stupid holding calls & the worst thing is that Allen is hurried on 98% of his pass attempts----how's he supposed to improve under these conditions.

[Playoffs?]

I am absolutely disgusted with what’s going on.  This is not a very good team, however I believe the Bills coaches are failing this team. McD is gutless, and Daboll is a moron. My fear is that they lose more winnable games, and the ‘process’ proves to be a gimmick where players want out of a losing culture.  This starts with coaching. 
 

Yes, we are 6-3 because of an easy schedule.  That said, if they ever want to be taken seriously, you have to beat a viable team, and you have to play to win. The second half of this season will show us where we truly are in the ‘process.’

 

Daboll’s calls and game plans are inexcusable. The guy should be drilled with questions and forced to explain himself.  Sickening.

[whorlnut]

5 minutes ago, Playoffs? said:

I am absolutely disgusted with what’s going on.  This is not a very good team, however I believe the Bills coaches are failing this team. McD is gutless, and Daboll is a moron. My fear is that they lose more winnable games, and the ‘process’ proves to be a gimmick where players want out of a losing culture.  This starts with coaching. 
 

Yes, we are 6-3 because of an easy schedule.  That said, if they ever want to be taken seriously, you have to beat a viable team, and you have to play to win. The second half of this season will show us where we truly are in the ‘process.’

 

Daboll’s calls and game plans are inexcusable. The guy should be drilled with questions and forced to explain himself.  Sickening.

Well said. I agree. 

[Playoffs?]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

I think the process blows and will be up in flames if this team finishes 8-8 or worse. McDermott and his coaching scared philosophy won’t last.

I hope you’re right.  Time for a gut check for McD and his staff. 

[whorlnut]

“Winning the right way” doesn’t mean crap if you’re coaching scared and afraid to stomp on your opponents throats. It leaves too many door open for the other team to make a comeback and get back in the game. I’m starting to lose some faith in McD.  The way he coached that last drive is inexcusable. We were moving the ball with plenty of time and had a TO and he played for the tie and worse, he though a 50+ yarder was close enough. What a joke. 

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think the process blows and will be up in flames if this team finishes 8-8 or worse. McDermott and his coaching scared philosophy won’t last.

The “Process” whatever that actually means. Is Stale and is now a way to hide problems. By claiming process (ambiguous and not defined) opens for no criticism 

[Locomark]

1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

No way. Your franchise QB who leads the league in fourth quarter winning drives is moving his team. Why not let him keep moving and kick an easier field goal. McDermott needs to learn to trust young guys. In particular his young QB. Starting to think McDermott might be the wrong coach for Josh. Sad, but Beane will be put in an awkward situation after 2020 if things don’t improve.

Sorry but Beane gave us our top two underwhelming draft picks, Star, re-upped a kicker after his worst year, inserts a random hasbeen Panther annually, not doing anything to bolster our edge rushing, giving us a 35 year old primary back, etc. I like some of his moves but he should be in the hot seat w McD next year if they don’t start winning with the talent that he assembled. Many teams seem to rebuild faster than us. His cap excuse is gone so now the only excuse he has is his competency. 

[Virgil]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

The “Process” whatever that actually means. Is Stale and is now a way to hide problems. By claiming process (ambiguous and not defined) opens for no criticism 

wtf is that avatar?

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

wtf is that avatar?

 
a lost bet 

[Virgil]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 
a lost bet 

From someone on here?  If so, tell them to kick rocks because none of us should have to look at that turd 

[MJS]

They ran a play and it was 4th down. You have to kick it there. Not sure why they let the clock run another 10 seconds, but they did try to get the 1st down.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Usually it's a choice between going for the tie or going for the win. But choosing a 53 yarder, (choosing not forced to go for it since they had plenty of time) is in essence choosing the loss over going for the win.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

From someone on here?  If so, tell them to kick rocks because none of us should have to look at that turd 

Yep. And nope always pay my bets

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Just now, MJS said:

They ran a play and it was 4th down. You have to kick it there. Not sure why they let the clock run another 10 seconds, but they did try to get the 1st down.

 wrong, letting the clock run down shows they weren't even playing for the first down. You also don't have to kick it there especially if you don't waste time and timeouts.

[Playoffs?]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

They ran a play and it was 4th down. You have to kick it there. Not sure why they let the clock run another 10 seconds, but they did try to get the 1st down.

But the play calling up until that point is inexcusable. 

[MAJBobby]

9 minutes ago, Locomark said:

Sorry but Beane gave us our top two underwhelming draft picks, Star, re-upped a kicker after his worst year, inserts a random hasbeen Panther annually, not doing anything to bolster our edge rushing, giving us a 35 year old primary back, etc. I like some of his moves but he should be in the hot seat w McD next year if they don’t start winning with the talent that he assembled. Many teams seem to rebuild faster than us. His cap excuse is gone so now the only excuse he has is his competency. 

Beane does what McD wants. See that’s the Problem when you hire the HC first instead of the GM having a say

[popcornpam]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Coaching scared 101. Sean McDermott.

He does on defense too, back up soft zone prevent. Why did he let Cleveland score there? Bring pressure send everybody and the sink. 
He was too conservative when he coached in Philly. They ran him out of town. 

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 wrong, letting the clock run down shows they weren't even playing for the first down. You also don't have to kick it there especially if you don't waste time and timeouts.

Once they hit the FG target line McConservative wanted to play for the FG. Clearly evident by the types of Routes Run. 

[LABILLBACKER]

20 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

“Winning the right way” doesn’t mean crap if you’re coaching scared and afraid to stomp on your opponents throats. It leaves too many door open for the other team to make a comeback and get back in the game. I’m starting to lose some faith in McD.  The way he coached that last drive is inexcusable. We were moving the ball with plenty of time and had a TO and he played for the tie and worse, he though a 50+ yarder was close enough. What a joke. 

Completely agree!

[peterpan]

1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

No way. Your franchise QB who leads the league in fourth quarter winning drives is moving his team. Why not let him keep moving and kick an easier field goal. McDermott needs to learn to trust young guys. In particular his young QB. Starting to think McDermott might be the wrong coach for Josh. Sad, but Beane will be put in an awkward situation after 2020 if things don’t improve.

It was 4th down.  What did you see today that made you think they'd convert?  Before the TO, they sent the team out there to try and drawn them Offside.  I was screaming "what are you doing!!!! Kick it kick it!!!!"

 

Then they called TO and sent out the kicker.  

 

I can't believe people are saying we should have went for it in that position.  It's a stupid opinion to hold.  

 

PS we clearly need a new kicker.  McD showed no confidence in him all game. 

[london_bills]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

Completely agree!

I heard he said he played for a tie in the presser. Will need to check that out

[MAJBobby]

Just now, peterpan said:

It was 4th down.  What did you see today that made you think they'd convert?  Before the TO, they sent the team out there to try and drawn them Offside.  I was screaming "what are you doing!!!! Kick it kick it!!!!"

 

Then they called TO and sent out the kicker.  

 

I can't believe people are saying we should have went for it in that position.  It's a stupid opinion to hold.  

 

PS we clearly need a new kicker.  McD showed no confidence in him all game. 

No one is saying they should have went for it. What they are questioning is the gutless three plays before that clearly settling in for a 50 yard attempt to tie. With a Kicker that already missed and easy one. 

[Happy]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Beane does what McD wants. See that’s the Problem when you hire the HC first instead of the GM having a say

 

That is a problem; Beane and McD are peers.  It's up to the Pegulas to fire either, and unfortunately they have no idea what they're looking at; either on the field or organizationally.

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

That was sickening, absolute vomit-worthy. How do you just let 20+ seconds just wind off the clock there and go for the tie instead of TRYING TO WIN THE GAME???

 

What kind of coach is even thinking about only trying to force OT there with that much time on the clock and a timeout in your pocket??

If we’re being aggressive there and Josh throws a pick, I can live with that. I can live with putting the game in the hands of who we hope will be our franchise QB’s hands and living or dying. That last drive had a couple of the best throws he made all day. He wasn’t good at all, but if we’re not even going to attempt to give him the shot to win the game, what’s the point of any of this?

 

I will just never understand this mentality. It’s the same mentality McD has when he gives up free possessions at the end of a half with sufficient time and timeouts left on the board. 

 

This isn’t a true winning, killer instinct mentality, and that’s why when we’ve been hit with adversity from a couple of the good teams we have faced in the Pats and Eagles, we didn’t respond. 

 

McD is a play not to lose coach, not a play to win coach. It’s a huge problem. This can not permeate into the rest of the organization to be a perennial mediocre-to-solid team every year. I fear more than ever that this won’t be the guy to bring us over the top, but that people will be satisfied simply because it’s better than what we had before. 

This is probably the most important thing to discuss after today's game.

 

IMO, it was pretty clear that McDermott, Daboll, et al did not trust Josh Allen to go out and win the game for us.  They did not want him to floor the throttle and go for a win because when he floors the throttle, he tends to turn the ball over.

 

If this is correct--that they did not trust Allen to get it done and were deliberately going for a tie with a long FG--then you have to ask if they also are intending to go out and find a new QB for this team.

 

There are actually going to be a number of big name QBs possibly on the market next year.  

 

Will we try to get one of them for a year or 2 run?  

 

This wasn't a good look today for the entire team and McBeane's vision for the organization going forward. 

 

 

 

 

[DrPJax]

This was a horrible loss and continues the trend of inexplicably poor offensive production. The playcalling is abysmal and we have no identity from game to game. How do you explain not using your very productive young back more than 8-10 carries ? How do you keep having a TE (Smith ) playing who commits more penalties than times he has touched the ball? How do you explain a free agent TE ( Kroft) who is a ghost in the offense?  How do you keep an OC where the offense can’t score in the third quarter; keeps going to empty sets on critical downs when the line is not holding up; keeps placing the o in situations where they commit holding penalties that either stop drives or knock you out of or into poor fg position; keeps being so situationally unaware that you waste time on a final drive where you should be trying to win rather than go to OT, and the list could go on.    Unfortunately the d also has issues when we start games slowly, still struggle with the run , and they failed to generate any pressure on the game deciding drive allowing mayfield to drive them easily down the field for the winning score.   This really has the look of a “ bad” 6-3 team and it’s going to be hard to stop this season from falling apart. 

 

Looking  at the schedule, the fins look better offensively than when we last played them, , and who has faith in the stretch of games involving the Cowboys, Ravens ,Steelers , and Pats?  It hurts to think this but if they don’t make some drastic change with the O, I could easily envision this team only beating the Broncos and Jets on route to a very depressing 8-8 season. For all the good McD did with getting us to the playoffs in season one, he maybe seen as just another Bills coach who blew a good start unless he can get a handle on this offensive debacle. I hope I’m wrong about my outlook but today’s game proved its not only about the W-L record as many only chose to look at , but also how you played en route to that record and  what is the true identity of the team as you progress thru the season. This loss identifies us as a pretender with no unified offensive scheme and it will be interesting to see what direction McD chooses. Critical stretch for the franchise is upon us with no easy answers. Just a terrible loss today.imho. 

[london_bills]

7 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

That was sickening, absolute vomit-worthy. How do you just let 20+ seconds just wind off the clock there and go for the tie instead of TRYING TO WIN THE GAME???

 

What kind of coach is even thinking about only trying to force OT there with that much time on the clock and a timeout in your pocket??

If we’re being aggressive there and Josh throws a pick, I can live with that. I can live with putting the game in the hands of who we hope will be our franchise QB’s hands and living or dying. That last drive had a couple of the best throws he made all day. He wasn’t good at all, but if we’re not even going to attempt to give him the shot to win the game, what’s the point of any of this?

 

I will just never understand this mentality. It’s the same mentality McD has when he gives up free possessions at the end of a half with sufficient time and timeouts left on the board. 

 

This isn’t a true winning, killer instinct mentality, and that’s why when we’ve been hit with adversity from a couple of the good teams we have faced in the Pats and Eagles, we didn’t respond. 

 

McD is a play not to lose coach, not a play to win coach. It’s a huge problem. This can not permeate into the rest of the organization to be a perennial mediocre-to-solid team every year. I fear more than ever that this won’t be the guy to bring us over the top, but that people will be satisfied simply because it’s better than what we had before. 

I completely agree. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

7 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

That was sickening, absolute vomit-worthy. How do you just let 20+ seconds just wind off the clock there and go for the tie instead of TRYING TO WIN THE GAME???

 

What kind of coach is even thinking about only trying to force OT there with that much time on the clock and a timeout in your pocket??

If we’re being aggressive there and Josh throws a pick, I can live with that. I can live with putting the game in the hands of who we hope will be our franchise QB’s hands and living or dying. That last drive had a couple of the best throws he made all day. He wasn’t good at all, but if we’re not even going to attempt to give him the shot to win the game, what’s the point of any of this?

 

I will just never understand this mentality. It’s the same mentality McD has when he gives up free possessions at the end of a half with sufficient time and timeouts left on the board. 

 

This isn’t a true winning, killer instinct mentality, and that’s why when we’ve been hit with adversity from a couple of the good teams we have faced in the Pats and Eagles, we didn’t respond. 

 

McD is a play not to lose coach, not a play to win coach. It’s a huge problem. This can not permeate into the rest of the organization to be a perennial mediocre-to-solid team every year. I fear more than ever that this won’t be the guy to bring us over the top, but that people will be satisfied simply because it’s better than what we had before. 

 

It was fourth and 4and this team hasnt developed the consistency to go for It on fourth down at the end of the game. Did you forget we went for it on 4rth down twice and failed?? What makes you think McDermott would be stupid enough to try it 3 times??

 

Quite honestly chasing touchdowns when you should be kicking FGs is not the smart way to win. If we make FGs and not turn it over on downs twice we win the game. Granted Hauschka choked too so McD was really in a tough spot and this team still needs more talent, at kicker Oline, WR, Dline and LB.

 

 

[Jukester]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Jauron ball baby!

 

It's hard to win in the NFL. Keep it close and maybe we'll have a shot to pull it out.  

 

Game management is atrocious.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Jukester