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Josh Allen's "awful" 1st half...THIS is the article to read

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4 hours ago, Chris from Rochester said:

Not to sound cheap, but is it worth subscribing to the athletic? I feel like most of these writers are worse then the people we have on TSW. For those who have it, do you get your moneys worth? 

The athletic is absolutely worth it.  Full price, maybe not, but I’ve seen more than a couple different discounted rate offers.  I think I paid $20-25 bucks for a year.  Great content.

 

i also have a blitz sub.  paid about $35 for the year.  The athletic has better Bills content (and insane sports content) Blitz has more Bills content.  If you love reading lots of Bills content, both are worth it imo.

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43 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I had toyed with the idea that the Brown TD pass was an adjustment dictated by the coverage but opted instead for the ball having been under thrown. Just didn't think Allen was there yet. If as the writer says it was a good read with perfect execution then that's huge and one of the game's most important takeaways IMO. That's something only good passers can do.

From the article on that drive Allen was 8/10 with a throwaway and Bradley's drop of possibly Allen's best throw of the day. Allen was seriously dialed in on that drive.

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      To put this in perspective, IF Darnold had the same 4 turnovers and still won the game,

the media would be slobbering  over the dude.

    The media will never stop treating the Bills like the NFL's bottom feeders,

even if they won the SB, the media would spend their time talking about how the

other teams deserved it more, the other teams beat themselves, the Bills got 

lucky in a horrible NFL down year, etc etc etc

Edited by Albwan
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I agree a few of the actual turnovers were bad luck and unfortunate bounces.


What concerns me much more are the 2 turnovers which are not included in the box score.


You know, the two glaringly bad throws for INTs when Allen started to panic and play hero ball for a while there.

 

One was erased by a defensive holding call away from the play (thank God) and the other INT to be was dropped when it hit the Jets player in his hands.

 

If you want to look at the whole game and try to understand what happened, look at the entire thing, not just the feel good parts.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

This is the most important aspect of the position. While everybody wants to focus on passer ratings, I prefer to look at him as a quarterback and his ability to get off the mat when things go bad. Allen was tested numerous times in that regard on Sunday and came through with flying colors. The kid is a flat out competitor who can take a punch in the jaw, come back, and knock your ass out. And if I can borrow a line from Jarvis Landry, that is CONTAGIOUS! To everybody on the team, including coaches. 

 

Bad plays happen to everyone. The key is all about how you respond. Always. 

You get to quote Jarvis Landry once. Maybe. Otherwise you were bang on.

 

Josh is a gamer. You want him to improve, be more accurate, take what is given, use better fundamentals, take better care of the ball, and most importantly win games. He did five of six. 

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48 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I had toyed with the idea that the Brown TD pass was an adjustment dictated by the coverage but opted instead for the ball having been under thrown. Just didn't think Allen was there yet. If as the writer says it was a good read with perfect execution then that's huge and one of the game's most important takeaways IMO. That's something only good passers can do.

I’ll take Brown’s word for it on that play. He said the CB had good coverage and had taken away anything over the top. He said Allen saw that and deliberately took something off the ball and let Brown make the adjustment. So yeah, that’s something good passers have to do on occasion.

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

You get to quote Jarvis Landry once. Maybe. Otherwise you were bang on.

 

Josh is a gamer. You want him to improve, be more accurate, take what is given, use better fundamentals, take better care of the ball, and most importantly win games. He did five of six. 

Bless ‘em!

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4 hours ago, Chris from Rochester said:

Not to sound cheap, but is it worth subscribing to the athletic? I feel like most of these writers are worse then the people we have on TSW. For those who have it, do you get your moneys worth? 

 

i feel I'm getting my moneys worth because I only paid half price.  Will I renew next year at $70, maybe but not so sure?  The articles are very well written, sometimes a bit longer than I'd like, (my leg tends to falls asleep when I sit on the toilet too long)  But during the off-season not alot of Bills coverage it seems in that respect BN has much more coverage then.  But if you just like sports in general, like reading an NBA article something, then much more worthwhile. 

 

Good articles, just not a tremendous amount of Bills coverage.

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The only thing I didn’t agree with was the TD to Brown when he said it was a perfectly placed back shoulder throw. 

 

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard in WGR yesterday, some with the team said it wasn’t intended to be a back shoulder throw. That he just threw it up and gave Brown a chance at it. If that was Joshs intent to put it in that spot, then great, but if he just “threw it up for a chance at it” and that’s what we got, I’m not 100% super duper excited about it. I mean it worked and we won the game because of it, but that doesn’t mean it was an accurately placed throw like the article states. 

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1 minute ago, mrags said:

The only thing I didn’t agree with was the TD to Brown when he said it was a perfectly placed back shoulder throw. 

 

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard in WGR yesterday, some with the team said it wasn’t intended to be a back shoulder throw. That he just threw it up and gave Brown a chance at it. If that was Joshs intent to put it in that spot, then great, but if he just “threw it up for a chance at it” and that’s what we got, I’m not 100% super duper excited about it. I mean it worked and we won the game because of it, but that doesn’t mean it was an accurately placed throw like the article states. 

I'm a believer that 33-50% of all back shoulder throws are actually front shoulder misses.

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Allen missed on both interceptions.  But they aren't the type of picks to raise concern.  The Beasley play is complete fluke, the ball COULD have been put in a better spot but that needs to be a catch, getting popped up into a defenders arms is the type of thing to happen with any QB.

 

It would be one thing if Josh badly overthrew someone over the middle of the field and there was a defender waiting, or if he stared down a receiver and didn't see a breaking DB.  Unfortunately a lot of the national people aren't going to any sort of level of nuance and are knee jerking to what they see on a stat sheet.

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5 minutes ago, mrags said:

The only thing I didn’t agree with was the TD to Brown when he said it was a perfectly placed back shoulder throw. 

 

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard in WGR yesterday, some with the team said it wasn’t intended to be a back shoulder throw. That he just threw it up and gave Brown a chance at it. If that was Joshs intent to put it in that spot, then great, but if he just “threw it up for a chance at it” and that’s what we got, I’m not 100% super duper excited about it. I mean it worked and we won the game because of it, but that doesn’t mean it was an accurately placed throw like the article states. 

 

Smoke and Josh both said the route was supposed to go over the top but the DB had good coverage and took that away.  What happened next is why you hear so much about QBs and WRs needing to build chemistry.  Both players knew that if the coverage was taking away the deep shot Josh would intentionally underthrow it because the receiver almost always has the advantage there.  It worked perfectly, and Smoke even drew the DPI had he not come down with the ball.  And Josh absolutely looked off the safety before throwing, which kept him from being able to make a play on the ball.  These things are actually practiced and it's not "dumb luck" most of the time.

 

3 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I'm a believer that 33-50% of all back shoulder throws are actually front shoulder misses.

 

The game is 90% mental and the other half physical.

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8 minutes ago, mrags said:

The only thing I didn’t agree with was the TD to Brown when he said it was a perfectly placed back shoulder throw. 

 

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard in WGR yesterday, some with the team said it wasn’t intended to be a back shoulder throw. That he just threw it up and gave Brown a chance at it. If that was Joshs intent to put it in that spot, then great, but if he just “threw it up for a chance at it” and that’s what we got, I’m not 100% super duper excited about it. I mean it worked and we won the game because of it, but that doesn’t mean it was an accurately placed throw like the article states. 

I mean Allen was locked in that drive he didn't really miss going 8/10 and the two uncompleted being a throwaway and a perfect pass dropped by Beasley. It's possible it was off but it'd have to of been off in a way that coincided with reading the defender perfectly.

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47 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

I've said this in another article but to me Allen has Brett Favre's gun slinger mentality (which I love) but with that mentality you are going to make mistakes, we should not make excuses for him since there is no need to, as long as he can come back from those mistakes and win games which he did. If we have the next Brett Favre with more athleticism, do we really give 2 ***** about whether or not he makes mistakes as long as were getting to the playoffs or Superbowls?

Go back thru all the Super Bowls and I think you'll find that the by-the-book, system-type classic QB, with but a couple of outlier exceptions, wins. The more exciting pull-it-out-of-your butt "gunslinger" QBs get the fan mania but tend not to get the brass ring. Two of that type - Tarkenton and Kelly -- alone count for 8 losses and no SB wins. Compare Stabler & LaMonica with Bradshaw in the 70s, or think of Favre, the ultimate gunslinger who, for all the raves, managed one SB win in an era that overlapped with the dull Troy Aikman and the highly "system" QB John Elway. 

 

What's winning me over with Josh Allen is his growing competence as a system QB who retains some fine gunslinger ability. That just might be the secret sauce for major success.

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5 hours ago, Ta111 said:

So you believe we will have balls bouncing off receivers hands, hitting their thigh and going straight into the arms of a linebacker going forward?

 

No, read my prior post... I think Allen will be fine. I think those were aberrations.

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1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I agree a few of the actual turnovers were bad luck and unfortunate bounces.


What concerns me much more are the 2 turnovers which are not included in the box score.


You know, the two glaringly bad throws for INTs when Allen started to panic and play hero ball for a while there.

 

One was erased by a defensive holding call away from the play (thank God) and the other INT to be was dropped when it hit the Jets player in his hands.

 

If you want to look at the whole game and try to understand what happened, look at the entire thing, not just the feel good parts.

 

 

 

Pretty much this. I don't understand why we have to perform all these mental gymnastics trying to convince ourselves that he was actually good on Sunday. He did a lot of good things, yes, but overall? Way too many mistakes. Remember that pass to Knox on the crossing route that was so far behind him he got completely spun around?

 

One game doesn't make him a bad QB or mean he's going to bust. He had a bad game against a soft Jets D where many of his bugaboos resurfaced. Why is it so hard to admit that? I expect he'll be much better this Sunday.

 

Edited by VW82

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Like almost everyone here, I was glad the Bills were able to pull out this win, and Allen deserves a lot of credit for composing himself at the half (it certainly helped that the defense played great and the Jets made very little out of all those turnovers by half) and for playing an excellent 4th quarter.  Also, I don't expect a 2nd year QB who didn't start every game of his rookie season to be perfect.  I'm just looking to see enough improvement in seeing receivers open downfield, avoiding foreseeable interceptions, improved accuracy (particularly in short passing), and better decision making (particularly when it comes to throwing the ball away when nothing is there).

 

Notwithstanding that outlook, a reasonable description of his performance in the first half is "Petermanesque".  The Beasley interception was largely his fault.  He threw it behind him, if only slightly, but it was off target enough that at that range and velocity a bounce of some kind was foreseeable.  The pick 6 is entirely on him.  The first fumble was a little sloppy and little unlucky (he felt the sack coming, but didn't secure the ball to his body, or get rid of it), but the fumbled snap was on him (he left the exchange too early - I don't buy the explanation that the exchange failed because the centre was pushed back by the defense).  He wasn't to blame for the safety (unless you think he should have pushed into Gore's back when it looked like he was stacked up at the line - frankly, I don't want the starting QB to risk injury by getting involved in line play).  Let's remember that Peterman, similarly, also wasn't entirely to blame for his 5 first half interceptions, but his performance is now legend.

 

The difference is that Peterman was benched after his nightmare half, the Bills were out of the game by the time he left, and so Peterman never got the chance to "redeem" himself with a better 2nd half performance.

 

I think that Allen is much more talented than Peterman and has a much higher upside, but his performance in the first half was one of the worst ever by a Bills starting QB.

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If we get 1st drive Josh and 4th Quarter Josh for 4 quarters next week.... then the Giants better watch out. I feel like he needs a day like that. A real complete performance to change the narrative. I thought Sunday showed real progress in those spots in the short and intermediate game. 

 

I thought week 17 last year was a complete game from him but agree with you.  It is easy to see the 4 turnovers without context and think that it is the same pre-draft Allen.  What we saw watching the game was much improved accuracy and overall grasp of the game and what the defense was throwing at him.  

 

If we were doing heat maps though... 0:):lol:

 

This win is one for the defense to hang their hat on.  They kept the team in the game until the 4th quarter.  They only gave up 8 points on the road to a division rival.  Josh is getting a lot of credit for the comeback but that defense should be getting more play this week.

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4 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

I thought week 17 last year was a complete game from him but agree with you.  It is easy to see the 4 turnovers without context and think that it is the same pre-draft Allen.  What we saw watching the game was much improved accuracy and overall grasp of the game and what the defense was throwing at him.  

 

If we were doing heat maps though... 0:):lol:

 

This win is one for the defense to hang their hat on.  They kept the team in the game until the 4th quarter.  They only gave up 8 points on the road to a division rival.  Josh is getting a lot of credit for the comeback but that defense should be getting more play this week.

 

And week 17 is always a bit odd you are never sure who is already running for the bus. Doing that week 2 in New York against a storied franchise would make people stand up and take notice. 

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46 minutes ago, mrags said:

The only thing I didn’t agree with was the TD to Brown when he said it was a perfectly placed back shoulder throw. 

 

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard in WGR yesterday, some with the team said it wasn’t intended to be a back shoulder throw. That he just threw it up and gave Brown a chance at it. If that was Joshs intent to put it in that spot, then great, but if he just “threw it up for a chance at it” and that’s what we got, I’m not 100% super duper excited about it. I mean it worked and we won the game because of it, but that doesn’t mean it was an accurately placed throw like the article states. 

 

Yeah, it wasn't really back shoulder, it was too far inside to be that.

 

He still gave his best playmaker a chance to win a one on one battle which is what I want to see.

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5 hours ago, 32ABBA said:

 

 

I think the way Allen plays the next few games will let us know if it was just a string of bad luck, or if he is actually the guy that the rest of the stats imply.

 

I believe it will be the latter.

 

I suppose you expect 3 or 4 turnovers game?

 

 

 

I agree.  The Jets game was weird and made it hard to truly evaluate QB play.  It felt kind of like a pre season game with how uneven it was.  But we did see how he handled himself under pressure.

 

We need a couple more data points. 

 

 

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I was thrilled with Allen’s game.  The turnovers were generally flukey.  Not entirely, but I didn’t see him misread coverages or make dumb throws.

 

And accuracy?  Such an overblown concern about Allen.  

 

He’s such a gamer.  I feel like it’s been a long time since we had a QB who was this kind of leader, and who just seemed like a winner.  

 

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the only real thing i worry about with josh is his playing hero ball.  i'm not sure if he gets panicky or what, but when he starts to force plays, that when the nonsense starts.  i think the turnovers threw him a bit, hero ball came out, and once he settled down, we saw how effective he can be.  i'm not worried about accuracy at this point, but i'm sure he'll miss some easy plays a couple of times a game.  all qbs do.  i know everyone loved the heavy passing, but i'd love to see the run game help him out more.

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29 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Pretty much this. I don't understand why we have to perform all these mental gymnastics trying to convince ourselves that he was actually good on Sunday. He did a lot of good things, yes, but overall? Way too many mistakes. Remember that pass to Knox on the crossing route that was so far behind him he got completely spun around?

 

One game doesn't make him a bad QB or mean he's going to bust. He had a bad game against a soft Jets D where many of his bugaboos resurfaced. Why is it so hard to admit that? I expect he'll be much better this Sunday.

 

Why do we say this.  Because you're being ridiculous.  See my post above, and then see what you wrote here.  You claim he made way to many mistakes and then cite ONE PASS. 

 

Do this.  go back and actually watch the game.  Go back and chart each throw, hen tell me he made way too many mistakes.  Tell me he was inaccurate.  If you do, it will confirm you simply want to slam the kid for no reason. 

 

 

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