What RB cracks first?

[Chicharito]

So who do you guys think cracks first. Gordon or Zeke? I don’t get leaving millions of dollars Just laying out to dry. That’s me though! You signed the contract honor what you signed.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

is this the guy you're talking about?

 

 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Gordon has less leverage, IMO.  I think he will be traded or released if he doesn’t fall in line. Zeke is different.  The Cowboys have arguably the best offensive line in football.  He also does a lot to help Dak...keeping the defense honest with both his running and his ability to catch the ball.  That said, however, I don’t think the Cowboys will give Zeke the pay day he’s looking for.  Too many mouths to feed assuming they want to extend both Prescott and Amari Cooper.  

[StHustle]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Gordon has less leverage, IMO.  I think he will be traded or released if he doesn’t fall in line. Zeke is different.  The Cowboys have arguably the best offensive line in football.  He also does a lot to help Dak...keeping the defense honest with both his running and his ability to catch the ball.  That said, however, I don’t think the Cowboys will give Zeke the pay day he’s looking for.  Too many mouths to feed assuming they want to extend both Prescott and Amari Cooper.  

 

Ummmmm....now way Chargers are cutting Gordon. 

If I were the Bills I'd give them McCoy and a 3rd for Gordon if they'd take it. He and Singletary would solidify the backfield for years to come.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

3 minutes ago, StHustle said:

 

Ummmmm....now way Chargers are cutting Gordon. 

If I were the Bills I'd give them McCoy and a 3rd for Gordon if they'd take it. He and Singletary would solidify the backfield for years to come.

 

Perhaps not released, but do you think they’ll succumb to his demands?  Particularly given Rivers’ comments to the media this week?   Sounds like he does not have the support of the locker room, and RB’s just don’t get paid the same way anymore (with Bell being an outlier).  The play seems to be to let your RB play out their rookie deal and then move on.

[Go-Bills]

32 minutes ago, Chicharito said:

So who do you guys think cracks first. Gordon or Zeke? I don’t get leaving millions of dollars Just laying out to dry. That’s me though! You signed the contract honor what you signed.

Or Shady?

[That's No Moon]

38 minutes ago, Chicharito said:

So who do you guys think cracks first. Gordon or Zeke? I don’t get leaving millions of dollars Just laying out to dry. That’s me though! You signed the contract honor what you signed.

When the teams start honoring the contracts they hand out I'll be on board. Until then the players need to get paid as much as they can while they can.

[GoBills808]

Eckeler behind an injured Gordon means Elliot will be paid first imo.

[Protocal69]

Im on the running backs side on this. They play one of most high impact positions in football in terms of physicality and  a lot of people say just run them into the ground and draft another one. Ok then at what point does the good, great running backs get their money then. 
 

A good balance is let them play the 1st 2 years out. If they are good give a big pay upgrade for the last 2 and play it out from there. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Protocal69

[Augie]

16 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

When the teams start honoring the contracts they hand out I'll be on board. Until then the players need to get paid as much as they can while they can.

 

The teams DO honor the contract. It’s just that the contract heavily favors the teams, and I’m OK with that. They pay 100% of all guaranteed money. They are allowed to cut the player, and the player is allowed to sit out and not be paid.

 

There are a few great RB’s, but it’s a position that has less leverage than many others, because with a good line an average back can win for you. Pass catching threats have a little more leverage, but look at what the OL gets paid these days. You can’t pay everyone as much as they want....decisions must be made. 

[US Egg]

It's not a Bills issue, so who really cares in here ?

[cage]

24 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

The teams DO honor the contract. It’s just that the contract heavily favors the teams, and I’m OK with that. They pay 100% of all guaranteed money. They are allowed to cut the player, and the player is allowed to sit out and not be paid.

 

There are a few great RB’s, but it’s a position that has less leverage than many others, because with a good line an average back can win for you. Pass catching threats have a little more leverage, but look at what the OL gets paid these days. You can’t pay everyone as much as they want....decisions must be made. 

 

 I think you should familiarize yourself w/ the stories of Bo Jackson (career ended on 1 play), Earl Campbell (in a wheelchair by 45) and Darryl Talley ('nuff said).  RBs more than any other position have to get themselves paid.  They have one shot at it and I don't begrudge them if they've earned it.

 

Contrast to how their counterparts in Baseball, Basketball and Hockey are compensated, all of who have fully guaranteed contracts.  In the NFL the front office execs have guaranteed contracts (Pegulas still paying Rex and Whaley, right).  

 

I'm all for team players, even home team discount in some cases, but NFL players have the shortest careers and can't put off getting compensated when their performance calls for it.  I don't like antics (see TO in Philly or Antonio Brown quitting on Steelers), but as a course of business I have to be on the players side.

Edited July 26, 2019 by cage

[Chandler#81]

23 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

It's not a Bills issue, so who really cares in here ?

We’re not oblivious to the rest of the League here. We play Dallas this year and may play the Chargers in January. It’s relevant and Bills fans care. Just not as much as we do with Bills issues.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, cage said:

 

 I think you should familiarize yourself w/ the stories of Bo Jackson (career ended on 1 play), Earl Campbell (in a wheelchair by 45) and Darryl Talley ('nuff said).  RBs more than any other position have to get themselves paid.  They have one shot at it and I don't begrudge them if they've earned it.

 

Contrast to how their counterparts in Baseball, Basketball and Hockey are compensated, all of who have guaranteed contracts.  In the NFL the front office execs have guaranteed contracts (Pegulas still paying Rex and Whaley, right).  

 

I'm all for team players, even home team discount in some cases, but NFL players have the shortest careers and can't put off getting compensated when their performance calls for it.  I don't like antics (see TO in Philly or Antonio Brown quitting on Steelers), but as a course of business I have to be on the players side.

 

Yes, I’m quite familiar with the obvious. Teams DO honor the contracts. THAT was my point. You want to change the world? Have at it. If they regret their choice of sport, that’s not my problem. The players picked their sport, and signed the deal. They just need to understand that sitting out may not be the best financial decision.

 

I truly hope L. Bell is happy (though unsuccessful going forward!? ) with his decision to sit out last year and pass on that $14 million. He will NEVER get that money back. I personally would have been fine if Bruce Smith was allowed to sit out every time someone else got a new contract and he wanted more money (right after signing a new deal). I wouldn’t hate him for it. He had that right to pass on that money. And the team has the right to know they signed a deal and were willing to live up to it.  

 

We all knew football was dangerous a long, long time ago. It’s a decision they have to make. I’m fine either way. 

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Augie

[PetermansRedemption]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Eckeler behind an injured Gordon means Elliot will be paid first imo.

If I recall correctly Eckeler has been pretty average to below average when thrusted into the starting rule due to a Gordon injury. 

[GoBills808]

26 minutes ago, Bills2ref said:

If I recall correctly Eckeler has been pretty average to below average when thrusted into the starting rule due to a Gordon injury. 

He was kind of hurt too...he’s not nearly the runner Gordon is but he’s tough and a very capable receiving option, way more so than Gordon. Rivers had good chemistry with him. I think if he was prepped for a starting role he could handle it, last season he was a monster coming off the bench...apparently he’s a coaches dream type dude, imo he could be a feature back in that offense.

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

3 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

When the teams start honoring the contracts they hand out I'll be on board. Until then the players need to get paid as much as they can while they can.

i agree- as much as the NBA drives me nuts with its contracts i feel NFL players must get when they can because they so seldom get second chances.

[mrags]

3 hours ago, Protocal69 said:

Im on the running backs side on this. They play one of most high impact positions in football in terms of physicality and  a lot of people say just run them into the ground and draft another one. Ok then at what point does the good, great running backs get their money then. 
 

A good balance is let them play the 1st 2 years out. If they are good give a big pay upgrade for the last 2 and play it out from there. 

Contracts are contracts. You sign it. You deal with it. This holding out crap has to stop. Don’t sign a contract for the number of years they offer you then. 

[That's No Moon]

32 minutes ago, mrags said:

Contracts are contracts. You sign it. You deal with it. This holding out crap has to stop. Don’t sign a contract for the number of years they offer you then. 

Unless you're the team and you don't like the cap hit, then you can just cut a guy.  One could equally tell the team not to offer years they don't intend to keep the player in order to spread out fake money they have no intention of ever paying over mythical years of a contract that don't really exist so they can pay another player more fake money over several other mythical years that also don't really exist.

[BarleyNY]

39 minutes ago, mrags said:

Contracts are contracts. You sign it. You deal with it.

 

Both the player and the team sign the contract.  Should they both have to honor it?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Chicharito said:

So who do you guys think cracks first. Gordon or Zeke? I don’t get leaving millions of dollars Just laying out to dry. That’s me though! You signed the contract honor what you signed.

 

I'm thinking Gordon

I think Zeke is more of the offense.  He's also a bit more nutz IMO (sorry @CowgirlsFan)

 

9 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Both the player and the team sign the contract.  Should they both have to honor it?

 

Team does honor it.  The options and actions open to both are spelled out in the contract.  You and the players may not LIKE those options as they tend to favor the team (team has the right to cut the player) but I've never heard of a team not honoring a contract.  If the player gets injured after he signs and the contract is guaranteed for injury, the team pays.  See Wood, Eric.  If the salary is guaranteed and the team cuts the player after he's been here 2 weeks, the team pays.  See Coleman, Corey.

 

 

[Augie]

19 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Unless you're the team and you don't like the cap hit, then you can just cut a guy.  One could equally tell the team not to offer years they don't intend to keep the player in order to spread out fake money they have no intention of ever paying over mythical years of a contract that don't really exist so they can pay another player more fake money over several other mythical years that also don't really exist.

 

Which is allowed....IN THE CONTRACT. 

 

Not to be rude, but is there something about contracts that confuses you? You make not LIKE it, but the contract allows it. What is in writing? The player is also allowed to not play....and not be paid. 

14 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Both the player and the team sign the contract.  Should they both have to honor it?

 

People are failing to grasp the obvious here....both sides are abiding by the contract. It’s all about the guaranteed money. 

 

 

They all knew the deal, and they all signed it. 

[That's No Moon]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

The player is also allowed to not play....and not be paid. 

Which is what both of these players are doing yet you are exhorting them to honor their contract.

 

I understand that what management is doing is permitted by the CBA and that the players are agreeing to it.  The players have a limited window to make money, when a player has leverage in a situation they have to take advantage of it. Elliot has leverage, Gordon has less but he still has some.

 

 

[mrags]

35 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Unless you're the team and you don't like the cap hit, then you can just cut a guy.  One could equally tell the team not to offer years they don't intend to keep the player in order to spread out fake money they have no intention of ever paying over mythical years of a contract that don't really exist so they can pay another player more fake money over several other mythical years that also don't really exist.

 

29 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Both the player and the team sign the contract.  Should they both have to honor it?

Last I checked, that’s what the guaranteed money is for. Again, if the player didn’t like the contract. Don’t sign it. If they want a contract with nothing but guaranteed money, then don’t sign any contract that’s not guaranteed money. If they want a contract with more money, don’t sign it until they offer more money. End of story. 

[Doc Brown]

I think Jones has more of an urgency to win a championship now so he'll give Zeke a fat contract before Gordon reports to camp.

1 hour ago, mrags said:

Contracts are contracts. You sign it. You deal with it. This holding out crap has to stop. Don’t sign a contract for the number of years they offer you then. 

I feel some sympathy for running backs on rookie deals though as they have a shorter lifespan than other position and teams will work them hard while still on that rookie deal.  The Cardinals and Rams both took care of their running backs long term after their third year.  Zeke makes that offense go.

[Rc2catch]

I think zeke will sit out longer. His health and impact is FAR greater than Gordon. He has more leverage in my opinion.  Not saying he’s the better back but he’s definitely seemed more durable and reliable. We’ve seen Elliot dominate and takeover games at times where Gordon to me just seems kinda just above average and stat stuffing when rivers is dominating a game. I think the chargers could replace Gordon’s production much easier. But the cowboys are a complete cap disaster too. Guess we will see who budges first 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Rc2catch

[Bing Bong]

5 hours ago, Chicharito said:

So who do you guys think cracks first. Gordon or Zeke? I don’t get leaving millions of dollars Just laying out to dry. That’s me though! You signed the contract honor what you signed.

So if a team can franchise tag a player after he "honors his contract" with a designation he can only sign with them, on their terms.. effectively extending the contract he worked so hard to honor, why can't that player similarly seek a contract on their terms a year earlier? Why do contracts only have to be honored by the player while teams can cut him showing no such honor? Contract is a promise of future services for money. Either side can dispute if they aren't getting what they signed.

 

I think LeVeon Bell helped them understand that they could get ran into the ground after "honoring their contract" then placed on consecutive franchise tags so billionaire Jerry Jones can save a buck while these guys struggled and made it to a league where they can get their biggest pay day for their very brief careers. 

 

That's the blueprint the Steelers were going to set. Squeeze out the mileage of your guys with 2 franchise tags because the Steelers aren't "honoring their contract" by giving Bell a deal. Give a guy 400 carries a year for 6 seasons straight and toss him cause he's too old.

 

They'll both crack. But they're both sending signals early that this won't be the first time. And I know they're sending signals not to be franchise tagged. Where's the honor in a team just deciding to force a 1 year contract after you've honored their actual deal. If the team can renege on these things let the players do the same.

 

And they're asking for more money, not retiring lol. Retiring is leaving money out to dry. I'd personally like more money if I knew several other employers would offer me the deal I'm looking for due to my merit and hard work. But that's just me.

Edited July 27, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[Doc Brown]

15 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

Last I checked, that’s what the guaranteed money is for. Again, if the player didn’t like the contract. Don’t sign it. If they want a contract with nothing but guaranteed money, then don’t sign any contract that’s not guaranteed money. If they want a contract with more money, don’t sign it until they offer more money. End of story. 

Rookies don't have that kind of negotiating power with the rookie wage scale.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Doc Brown

[Bing Bong]

4 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

It's not a Bills issue, so who really cares in here ?

People that want to complain about money grubbing athletes at every instance a talented player seeks contract negotiations.

[Augie]

29 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Which is what both of these players are doing yet you are exhorting them to honor their contract.

 

I understand that what management is doing is permitted by the CBA and that the players are agreeing to it.  The players have a limited window to make money, when a player has leverage in a situation they have to take advantage of it. Elliot has leverage, Gordon has less but he still has some.

 

 

 

I’m not exhorting anyone to do anything. I say it’s their choice. Do what they decide to do. If they don’t like the contract they signed, they have the right to not play, and not get paid. This is very simple, it’s their choice. It affects my life in no way whatsoever.  

 

Have your opinions, but please don’t put words in my mouth (or on my fingertips). 

 

.

 

 

.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Augie

[CommonCents]

Opened the thread as a Bills fan prepared to type McCoy. Then I read the post. ?

 

Does Buffalo have the oldest and highest paid backfield? If so, we should avoid chiming in on real backfields.

Edited July 27, 2019 by CommonCents

[Augie]

30 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I think Jones has more of an urgency to win a championship now so he'll give Zeke a fat contract before Gordon reports to camp.

 I feel some sympathy for running backs on rookie deals though as they have a shorter lifespan than other position and teams will work them hard while still on that rookie deal.  The Cardinals and Rams both took care of their running backs long term after their third year.  Zeke makes that offense go.

 

I don’t disagree, but that’s the way it works. Some would say NEVER give a RB a second contract. Get your 4 years and move on. I’m not feeling much grief for a guy who makes $5 mil before his 25th BDay, but it’s not about me. They signed a contract, were happy to have it....and now they want more. So do I, but that was the deal. If they want to sit, they can. Fair enough. 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

4 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

Opened the thread as a Bills fan prepared to type McCoy. Then I read the post. ?

 

Does Buffalo have the oldest and highest paid backfield? If so, we should avoid chiming in on real backfields.

 

Devin Singletary bro.  Just watch him become our feature back.  Shady and Frank Gore will really compliment a Singletary led backfield.

[CommonCents]

13 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Devin Singletary bro.  Just watch him become our feature back.  Shady and Frank Gore will really compliment a Singletary led backfield.

I’m hopeful, as are we all. Otherwise RB becomes the new WR and the most mismanaged position in Buffalo. Here’s to hoping Singletary can take the bulk of the work and Gore can be used as a short yardage specialist. 

 

[Augie]

17 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Devin Singletary bro.  Just watch him become our feature back.  Shady and Frank Gore will really compliment a Singletary led backfield.

 

I’m hearing from my sources, Singletary had a good practice today and is looking to hold out for a big raise and an extension. Think we should cave? I doubt there will ever be another player like him....I lean toward being weak.....

 

 

?

[Augie]

40 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Sitting's putting pressure on both sides. A contract is services promised for pay. If either side thinks the other isn't holding up their bargain, then ya make a new contract, or terminate the whole thing. 

 

Zeke's gonna crack at some point. All he's doing is making sure he gets the contract he's performed to. Sit now. Sit next year if you get tagged. He was happy to prove he's worth his $5m and more for 3 years. He wants a new one for the worth he proved and he's certainly in a position to pressure the Cowboys to do it now. Why the heck shouldn't he.

 

I really think these guys are just sending strong signals they don't want to be tagged. Steelers and Bell both lost after that double tag fiasco. I think RBs see that they can make the teams give pause to tag them given how the Steelers got nothing from Bell. Sitting now is the right time to send the message early and get the second contracts. Tags will screw up the RB's best contract timing for their career length.

 

No. That is NOT how contracts work. You don’t make a new one or terminate, the deal still stands. The TEAM owns the rights. No play, no pay.  Your view would be the exact opposite of a contract. 

 

Zeke has a much more difficult situation....he behaves like an unreliable teenage clown. How much guaranteed do YOU want to give him? Me? Not as much as he will want. Play, sit, I donn’t care. His knucklehead behavior makes it an easy decision for me. He needs to AT LEAST prove he can grow up a little bit before I even think of the big deal. 

 

 

The team seems perfectly willing to live up to the contract. THAT is what they want. It’s the man-child who keeps getting in trouble and may at any point be given a leave of absence (a/k/a suspension) who is the problem here. 

 

 

. 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Augie

[mrags]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Rookies don't have that kind of negotiating power with the rookie wage scale.

Well they can hold out and not report and make nothing and use their degree in basket weaving to see if they can get a job making more money 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

So if a team can franchise tag a player after he "honors his contract" with a designation he can only sign with them, on their terms.. effectively extending the contract he worked so hard to honor, why can't that player similarly seek a contract on their terms a year earlier? Why do contracts only have to be honored by the player while teams can cut him showing no such honor? Contract is a promise of future services for money. Either side can dispute if they aren't getting what they signed.

 

I think LeVeon Bell helped them understand that they could get ran into the ground after "honoring their contract" then placed on consecutive franchise tags so billionaire Jerry Jones can save a buck while these guys struggled and made it to a league where they can get their biggest pay day for their very brief careers. 

 

That's the blueprint the Steelers were going to set. Squeeze out the mileage of your guys with 2 franchise tags because the Steelers aren't "honoring their contract" by giving Bell a deal. Give a guy 400 carries a year for 6 seasons straight and toss him cause he's too old.

 

They'll both crack. But they're both sending signals early that this won't be the first time. And I know they're sending signals not to be franchise tagged. Where's the honor in a team just deciding to force a 1 year contract after you've honored their actual deal. If the team can renege on these things let the players do the same.

 

And they're asking for more money, not retiring lol. Retiring is leaving money out to dry. I'd personally like more money if I knew several other employers would offer me the deal I'm looking for due to my merit and hard work. But that's just me.

 

I honestly don’t mean this in a bad way, but I’m guessing you have zero knowledge of contract law. The player agreed to this when they signed the deal. DONE. Get over it. 

 

Everyone wants more money. You don’t get the second deal unless you “survive” the first deal. It’s not about “fair” or “right”, it’s what’s in writing. 

 

 

If squeezing out the mileage at $14 mil/year is cheap, I want some of what you’re smokin’! I think that’s a boatload of money for a RB! He’s just an idiot who made the wrong call. 

[Augie]

 

The Franchise Tag IS part of the contract. 

 

 

.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Augie

[Big Blitz]

7 hours ago, StHustle said:

 

Ummmmm....now way Chargers are cutting Gordon. 

If I were the Bills I'd give them McCoy and a 3rd for Gordon if they'd take it. He and Singletary would solidify the backfield for years to come.

 

 

The Chargers won't trade him let alone in conference.