BN reports Jim Kelly to “collaborate” with Josh Allen and Brian Daboll...Tim Graham shoots it down

[BigPappy]

32 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned that Jim was a great QB.

 

This isn't about trivializing his accomplishments. It's about having the franchise not mess with the current occupant of the position.

 

Sorry but no. No. No, and no. They are not trying to mess with the current occupant. The fact that you fail to see the value in educating someone in your own mistakes beyond the standpoint of athletic ability is......well....astounding to me. Being able to apply what you learn in others mistakes is a key value in LIFE not just football and if JA can take what JK has to say for what it is (a point of view from someone who has played the position), there are no downsides..... period. He's not telling his how to run the offense, he's not even telling him how to do anything. He's telling him...this is where i made my mistakes, where i messed up and if you can apply that to what your doing today, great.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, BigPappy said:

Sorry but no. No. No, and no. They are not trying to mess with the current occupant. The fact that you fail to see the value in educating someone in your own mistakes beyond the standpoint of athletic ability is......well....astounding to me. Being able to apply what you learn in others mistakes is a key value in LIFE not just football and if JA can take what JK has to say for what it is (a point of view from someone who has played the position), there are no downsides..... period. He's not telling his how to run the offense, he's not even telling him how to do anything. He's telling him...this is where i made my mistakes, where i messed up and if you can apply that to what your doing today, great.

 

Let me ask you a question: are you over 50?

 

 

[BigPappy]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Let me ask you a question: are you over 50?

 

 

LOL!! not sure why it matters but no i am not over 50. I am 44... again, not that it matters.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

Let me ask you a question: are you over 50?

get over yourself. you look like a little spoiled brat that's not getting his way here. 

 

of course, that was putting it mildly as you are not worth the point I'd get if I were able to say how I really felt.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 minutes ago, BigPappy said:

LOL!! not sure why it matters but no i am not over 50. I am 44... again, not that it matters.

 

Because that sounds like the words of someone who's worried about losing relevance, that's why.

 

Forced advice is bad advice.

 

7 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

get over yourself. you look like a little spoiled brat that's not getting his way here. 

 

of course, that was putting it mildly as you are not worth the point I'd get if I were able to say how I really felt.

 

 

 Settle down, pops. I wouldn't want you having a stroke over this.

 

[Pirate Angel]

2 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Points. If you have a D which is finally competent enough to contain/pressure/make TB12's life difficult, then you need to maximize your offense's opportunities/number of chances to make plays, which by definition, if you have more plays to run, should result in more points, which you need a lot of usually to beat the Pats. 

During a big game I'm leaning towards eating up clock and keeping his ass on the sidelines, both giant Superbowl victories over the Pats where low scoring, Seattle's (should have one) wasn't all that high, both utilized time of possesion, ran the ball, high percentage plays, move the chains, get after Brady with a 4 man rush. 

  The Eagles ended up in a shootout but even with a top notch defense Brady put up big numbers, now they did win but they did have a far superior roster.

        Atlanta got a lead but couldn't run it and eat up clock and kept giving the ball back to the man ..just saying my vote is keeping his ass on the sidelines. 

       I grew up watching the early 90s squad, I'm glad they support the team but some seem like theyre high school All-stars that hangs around to coach so he never has to leave his high school glory days. Not to mention that they got they're asses handed to them repeatedly with the no huddle when it mattered most.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Pirate Angel

[Gugny]

19 minutes ago, BigPappy said:

Sorry but no. No. No, and no. They are not trying to mess with the current occupant. The fact that you fail to see the value in educating someone in your own mistakes beyond the standpoint of athletic ability is......well....astounding to me. Being able to apply what you learn in others mistakes is a key value in LIFE not just football and if JA can take what JK has to say for what it is (a point of view from someone who has played the position), there are no downsides..... period. He's not telling his how to run the offense, he's not even telling him how to do anything. He's telling him...this is where i made my mistakes, where i messed up and if you can apply that to what your doing today, great.

 

How do you know what Kelly is telling Allen?

 

How do you know Allen even cares about what Kelly has to say?

 

Isn't this why Beane and McDermott acquired/retained Barkley?  For veteran presence?

[mykidsdad]

What's the Buffalo News?

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

How do you know what Kelly is telling Allen?

 

How do you know Allen even cares about what Kelly has to say?

 

Isn't this why Beane and McDermott acquired/retained Barkley?  For veteran presence?

To get a decent playing backup, not quite the same thing imho, although anything Barkley can offer is of course extra gravy too. 

 

In terms of does Allen care—it’s a rhetorical question, but all signs point to he welcomes being around Kelly, per his own statements plus visits to hang out at the house, which certainly the Bills wouldn’t force on him. 

[Gugny]

Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

To get a decent playing backup, not quite the same thing imho, although anything Barkley can offer is of course extra gravy too. 

 

In terms of does Allen care—it’s a rhetorical question, but all signs point to he welcomes being around Kelly, per his own statements plus visits to hang out at the house, which certainly the Bills wouldn’t force on him. 

 

I don't believe the Bills are forcing any of this.

 

I do, however, worry that Kelly is initiating this and that neither the organization, nor Josh Allen, feels that they can say no.  Again ... it's a worry ... not necessarily what I think is happening.

 

But I can definitely see it going down that way.  To me, that's cause for concern.

[CommonCents]

The team getting better and not making glaring mistakes makes for a boring offseason? EH?

[Malazan]

On one hand, the BN said it was true so I think it's false. On the other, timmah said it was false so I think it must be true!

[Figster]

23 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I don't believe the Bills are forcing any of this.

 

I do, however, worry that Kelly is initiating this and that neither the organization, nor Josh Allen, feels that they can say no.  Again ... it's a worry ... not necessarily what I think is happening.

 

But I can definitely see it going down that way.  To me, that's cause for concern.

I can understand your concern Gu

 

On the other hand though Josh Allen is a very intelligent individual.  I think at the end of the day Allen is going to make his own mind up on what works for him and what doesn't in my humble opinion.

 

I also think what Kelly has to offer might prove beneficial in many instances IMO. Much like a veteran QB like Anderson, despite being away from the game for so long.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Figster

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, jeremy2020 said:

On one hand, the BN said it was true so I think it's false. On the other, timmah said it was false so I think it must be true!

This needs a meme

 

[BigPappy]

56 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Because that sounds like the words of someone who's worried about losing relevance, that's why.

 

Forced advice is bad advice.

 

 Settle down, pops. I wouldn't want you having a stroke over this.

 

 Forced advice? are you a moron? He was invited to come and speak to them. That is not forced advice. Can i ask how old you are? You must be under the age of 30 because you sound like one of those whinny millennial morons.

51 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

How do you know what Kelly is telling Allen?

 

How do you know Allen even cares about what Kelly has to say?

 

Isn't this why Beane and McDermott acquired/retained Barkley?  For veteran presence?

 I know what Kelly told Allen because he told reporters what they discussed. SMFH. You guys claim to be Bills fans, but yet you don't pay any attention to the news or read.

[WideNine]

16 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

I agree with you and it makes me wonder if there has been overtures that Kelly just wasn’t interested in.  Coaching is a grueling job that doesn’t really pay well comparatively.  

 

Kelly is set for life, involved in a number of charities and organizations, loves outdoor sports, and has been trying to focus on his family over the past 2 decades. 

 

I think he loves the game but I just can’t see him sacrificing all of that just to coach.

 

There has been the health issues.

 

I am sure it probably works best for all parties as a flexible, open door, arrangement.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, BigPappy said:

 Forced advice? are you a moron?

 

Invited by WHOM?

 

Josh?

Do you know?

 

You know what I hate at work? When the boss brings a consultant in for a daylong presentation on how to do my job, when I don't really need the advice. That's what this is, unless Josh asked for it. Then it's a different animal altogether.

 

[BigPappy]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Invited by WHOM?

 

Josh?

Do you know?

 

You know what I hate at work? When the boss brings a consultant in for a daylong presentation on how to do my job, when I don't really need the advice. That's what this is, unless Josh asked for it. Then it's a different animal altogether.

 

He was invited by Josh and Daball per Daball and JK. I noticed you completely ignored the age question, probably because I'm right. And if your boss brought in a consultant for a day long presentation on how to do your job it's probably because he wants you to learn how to actually do the job correctly. Never mind the fact that you apparently are threatened by the idea of someone showing you a better way of doing things when it comes to your job (a millennial trait). Some of us actually appreciate it when others have good ideas and welcome them, especially if it helps us be better or more efficient and our job. It's called L-E-A-R-N-I-N-G.

[JoeF]

Jim learned concepts of the run and shoot and KGun directly from the inventors -- Mouse Davis, the co-inventor June Jones and the refiner (Ted Marchibroda).  If Daboll had this kind of foundational knowledge at his disposal and didn't use it, I would question why not.   It's like having Watson from Alexander Graham Bell's lab in your neighborhood and not using him.  Josh has an intellect and athleticism that maybe even surpasses Jim's -- why not give some of these concepts a shot?

 

Its a nice click-bait story -- but its not really news...

Edited June 4, 2019 by JoeF

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 minutes ago, BigPappy said:

He was invited by Josh and Daball per Daball and JK. I noticed you completely ignored the age question, probably because I'm right. And if your boss brought in a consultant for a day long presentation on how to do your job it's probably because he wants you to learn how to actually do the job correctly. Never mind the fact that you apparently are threatened by the idea of someone showing you a better way of doing things when it comes to your job (a millennial trait). Some of us actually appreciate it when others have good ideas and welcome them, especially if it helps us be better or more efficient and our job. It's called L-E-A-R-N-I-N-G.

 

I take it you haven't spent much time in corporate America.

 

Almost uniformly, consultants are snake-oil salesmen and a waste of time. And, no, I'm older than you so I've had AMPLE opportunity to learn from process gurus and motivational speakers and the like in ALL kinds of different fields from sales to technology.  And uniformly, they're teachers because they cannot do. You know the old saying, right?

 

Stick to your wheelhouse, friend...being wrong on football messageboards.

 

[Gugny]

33 minutes ago, BigPappy said:

  I know what Kelly told Allen because he told reporters what they discussed. SMFH. You guys claim to be Bills fans, but yet you don't pay any attention to the news or read.

 

I know what was said.  I'm also smart enough to know that the actual content of the discussions would never be shared.  Great job taking what was a civil, mature conversation into a bad direction with insults, though.

[BigPappy]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I take it you haven't spent much time in corporate America.

 

Almost uniformly, consultants are snake-oil salesmen and a waste of time. And, no, I'm older than you so I've had AMPLE opportunity to learn from process gurus and motivational speakers and the like in ALL kinds of different fields from sales to technology.  And uniformly, they're teachers because they cannot do. You know the old saying, right?

 

Stick to your wheelhouse, friend...being wrong on football messageboards.

 

 I have spent ample time in "Corporate America", unlike you however.... I never turn down the opportunity to learn. Even if it's to learn what NOT to do. You speak like a close minded imbecile, but leave it to an imbecile to to tell someone stating facts to be wrong. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, BigPappy said:

 close minded imbecile

 

You'll pardon me if I don't accept the judgement of being an imbecile from someone lacking in basic English skills.

 

Good day to you, sir.

 

[billsfan1959]

[5 Wide]

 

16 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I take it you haven't spent much time in corporate America.

 

Almost uniformly, consultants are snake-oil salesmen and a waste of time. And, no, I'm older than you so I've had AMPLE opportunity to learn from process gurus and motivational speakers and the like in ALL kinds of different fields from sales to technology.  And uniformly, they're teachers because they cannot do. You know the old saying, right?

 

Stick to your wheelhouse, friend...being wrong on football messageboards.

 

 Consultants are BS.  They peanut butter spread basic concepts across multiple industries without taking the time to get into the weeds to learn the nuances of what actually transpires in different market niches.  

 

I would say the consultant analogy is a bad one though.  This would be more like the retired VP of sales of your company coming back to talk about his experience working the same industry you're presently in, servicing the same accounts etc..

[Doc]

I don't see how Jim is any different than Josh learning from Derek Anderson or even Ken Dorsey...except that Jim was actually a good (great really) NFL QB.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

I don't see how Jim is any different than Josh learning from Derek Anderson or even Ken Dorsey...except that Jim was actually a good (great really) NFL QB.

well, to some the old guard are nothing but losers, second best. they're also old and some don't want these old guys around their new shiny toy as they feel their second best level may rub off on the kids.

 

actually, it's nothing more then useless bitching and whining but that happens quite a bit around this joint.

[4_kidd_4]

Hey guys what’s goin on in here?

[Dopey]

5 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I've already stated my objections. I want THIS team and THIS QB to stand on their own merits. I don't want these old guys to have ANY input at all.

 

It's time for this city and franchise to move on already.

 

Let's remove the numbers from the wall of fame while we're at it. I'm glad you have no say so with the organization.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Let's remove the numbers from the wall of fame while we're at it. I'm glad you have no say so with the organization.

 

This is just so amusing. Did I ask for that? No. Why is reading so hard for you people?

 

[Kwai San]

13 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Poor Jim? He'd be a nobody without the Bills. He craves this attention and puts himself in this position time and time again.

 

He should go mentor the Houston gamblers QB since he's done such a good job. 

 

No thanks, I wish him well but the dude needs to move on. 

 

Those who disagree can't see through the facade. 

 

Wow - one of those Kelly Haters eh?  No worries we all have our own opinions as we should.  I for one respect what he brought to the plate as a player.  He was an arrogant SOB who was brought down to earth by his son's situation and then his own.  Life either tends to mellow the SOB's or really really sharpen them.  Looks like Jim went mellow....

[NoHuddleKelly12]

44 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

Hey guys what’s goin on in here?

Post of the day, congratulations! 

[Ol Dirty B]

5 hours ago, Kwai San said:

 

Wow - one of those Kelly Haters eh?  No worries we all have our own opinions as we should.  I for one respect what he brought to the plate as a player.  He was an arrogant SOB who was brought down to earth by his son's situation and then his own.  Life either tends to mellow the SOB's or really really sharpen them.  Looks like Jim went mellow....

 

He was an amazing player. I cried when he retired, I was 7 though so give me that credit in that my judgment wasn't the greatest.

 

I knew a lot of people who met him and none had any good to say. Like pass the point where you can say it was just a bad day. 

 

I went to a game a few years ago and was invited to a post game party behind the Fieldhouse that players and retired players go to. This was right after Jim thankfully beat cancer the first time. He said he could introduce me to him. I told him I appreciate it, but I'd rather not ruin my image of him. I liked him as the figure with the tough resilient spirit that went back to when he was a player.

 

Well I never met him but as I was walking through I got to see him get out of his car, scream at people rightly walking. Then back out and peel out and almost hit like 5 or 6 people. I saw him on sports center that morning talking about how much he loved the fans. Then I saw him almost run over 5.

 

People said he changed, but I doubt it. I don't wish anything ill towards him. But he's definitely close to the same guy that he pretends he's not. 

 

I didn't have to meet him to come away with a bad opinion. 

[Ol Dirty B]

11 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

C'mon bro, that's being a bit over the top to say the least. Your reference to a long-defunct USFL franchise (since 1985??) proves that. Jim left his health in terms of his back, knees, ankles, heaven knows what else, on the field for this franchise during a time when it was cool to tee off on QB's after the play like rag dolls, and never complained about that (yes I realize he was paid for that, but compared to many of today's NFL players, it was chump change). He's adopted Buffalo as his hometown, unlike most other players who bolt for warmer climes as soon as the last whistle sounds, and oh yeah, has raised incredible amounts of money for charitable causes in the Western NY area...continues to host his camps for kids every year, among so many other contributions to Buffalo, but I digress. The point is, it's unfair of you to take potshots at one of the few greats from our franchise past who's actually worth the ink to say that about. I know you're better than this. Prove me right.  

 

No I appreciate his charitable efforts and as I said I loved him as a player as kid.

 

I've just heard too many stories and seen him firsthand and was left underwhelmed. 

 

Like I said in my previous post, I didn't want to meet him because of the status I held him in. My dad who met him and said he was an ass still loves him. I'm just not as forgiving at this point. Maybe I'll mature to that point.

 

He's loved every QB, said he'd work with all of them. At this point, it hasn't worked. So I appreciate and recognize the great time he put in. And he's tough as hell. Physically and spiritually, with all he has gone through.

 

I just don't know if he has much to offer as a mentor.

[Boca BIlls]

Ok

Edited June 5, 2019 by Boca BIlls

[Doc Brown]

14 hours ago, Doc said:

I don't see how Jim is any different than Josh learning from Derek Anderson or even Ken Dorsey...except that Jim was actually a good (great really) NFL QB.

I always worry about too many chefs in the kitchen when it comes to developing a young QB.  That's what concerns me about him working with Palmer in the offseason and now two QB coaches in two years (not McBeane's fault).  At least there hasn't been a system change with Daboll.  I'm not really worried about Jimbo though as I see him as offering more general advice on being a starting QB in Buffalo.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

38 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I always worry about too many chefs in the kitchen when it comes to developing a young QB.  That's what concerns me about him working with Palmer in the offseason and now two QB coaches in two years (not McBeane's fault).  At least there hasn't been a system change with Daboll.  I'm not really worried about Jimbo though as I see him as offering more general advice on being a starting QB in Buffalo.

Yes! Dude prepare yourself for the angry old guy brigade to come after you.

[oldmanfan]

I was going to approach Warren Buffett about investing advice.  But I guess he's too old.  Good thing I read through this thread.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

13 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

No I appreciate his charitable efforts and as I said I loved him as a player as kid.

 

I've just heard too many stories and seen him firsthand and was left underwhelmed. 

 

Like I said in my previous post, I didn't want to meet him because of the status I held him in. My dad who met him and said he was an ass still loves him. I'm just not as forgiving at this point. Maybe I'll mature to that point.

 

He's loved every QB, said he'd work with all of them. At this point, it hasn't worked. So I appreciate and recognize the great time he put in. And he's tough as hell. Physically and spiritually, with all he has gone through.

 

I just don't know if he has much to offer as a mentor.

Fair enough ODB. And I can certainly relate to the status I've held him in since I was a kid. He just seems to walk the walk unlike a lot of other sports celebs, and I've always admired that given what he's gone through personally after football. 

[Figster]

Myself personally, just as much can be learned from failure as success in many instances and throughout history we learn valuable lessons that should never be forgotten. Allot can be learned from 4 straight Superbowl losses in my humble opinion. 

 

If J K can give J A a few good pointers on what it took to go to 4 straight Superbowls,  Allen is going to find a way to win.

 

One Buffalo strong... 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Figster