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Mods- Don't merge yet - everyone needs to see Sills video he put up on twitter

Reed83HOF

By Reed83HOF
in The Stadium Wall Archives

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Hapless Bills Fan
Message added by Hapless Bills Fan

This seems to have evolved into a general discussion of Sills
I apologize to those whose discussion I'm pruning, but please continue in the general discussion of Sills thread:

And of course, the link to his twitter video is still there to be seen (whether or not you wish to or need to see it)

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dollars 2 donuts All Pro

dollars 2 donuts

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6 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

What’s this guys deal? All I see anywhere are people saying good things about him. Not even just Bills fans. He put up good numbers too. Why didn’t he get drafted? What is he slow or something?

 

He bet $5,000 on the Vikes to cover against the Bills and people found out about it.

 

 

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Boca BIlls Veteran

Boca BIlls

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20 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

What’s this guys deal? All I see anywhere are people saying good things about him. Not even just Bills fans. He put up good numbers too. Why didn’t he get drafted? What is he slow or something?

This years Da'Rick, This years "My guy"

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SCBills Hall of Famer

SCBills

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9 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

This years Da'Rick, This years "My guy"

 

I get why people say this, but Sills was a legit stud in college.   I’m under no illusion that he has anything more than a 20-25% chance at making this roster, but how he wasn’t drafted is.....perplexing. 

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BullBuchanan Veteran

BullBuchanan

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17 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

This years Da'Rick, This years "My guy"


Not even close to that.

 

38 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

What’s this guys deal? All I see anywhere are people saying good things about him. Not even just Bills fans. He put up good numbers too. Why didn’t he get drafted? What is he slow or something?

 

32 minutes ago, SCBills said:

He’s got guys like Dez Bryant hyping him and was projected as a Mid-Round Pick. 

 

I dont get it either. 

 

Sills has 2 years of WR experience and put up 33 TDs during that span. Scouts are concerned about his frame at the next level, as well as his lack of experience. He doesn't have top end speed, but he is very crafty as a WR and has a knack for getting open in the sense he positions his body at a high end level. He's got a Stevie Johnson/Chris Hogan quality to him, though I'd argue better athleticism and hands than both. I think he makes the 53 man roster and makes a nice redzone impact out of the gate. He doesn't have strength to block or beat press in the NFL right now.

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I get why people say this, but Sills was a legit stud in college.   I’m under no illusion that he has anything more than a 20-25% chance at making this roster, but how he wasn’t drafted is.....perplexing. 

 

It's because he doesn't separate. Even on those highlights on that video. Lot of contested catches and the defender is right there. They are harder to come down with against NFL DBs. I keep saying this and people keep ignoring me but separation and catching the ball are the two things NFL scouts value above all. He has to find a way to get more separation and for me it is all about being more precise route runner. He isn't a burner but he is fast enough - if he can be more precise running routes he will get that separation more consistently and make it in the NFL. 

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Alphadawg7 Hall of Famer

Alphadawg7

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57 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

What’s this guys deal? All I see anywhere are people saying good things about him. Not even just Bills fans. He put up good numbers too. Why didn’t he get drafted? What is he slow or something?

 

51 minutes ago, SCBills said:

He’s got guys like Dez Bryant hyping him and was projected as a Mid-Round Pick. 

 

I dont get it either. 

 

Honestly it’s a three part equation IMHO

 

1.  This was a very deep WR class once you hit 2nd round and on, one of the deepest in years.  He was not the only mid round guy to go undrafted.  

 

2.  He’s only played WR 3 years, so teams may have decided to go with other guys who just have more experience and may need less coaching on fundamentals in their opinion.  

 

3.  Once you get into later rounds teams are starting to look for depth at other positions, ST guys, etc too.  So something as simple as more ST potential can make one go before another.

 

I mean once you got passed Marquise, Harry, AJ, Deebo and DK, the rest started to group very very closely.  Even Butler who was thought of as an early 2nd fell far like DK. 

 

Just comes down to fit, what traits they want, development time, etc.  Not uncommon for good players to get over looked, there are lots of guys projected mid rounds who go undrafted.  

 

 

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Wayne Cubed All Pro

Wayne Cubed

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18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's because he doesn't separate. Even on those highlights on that video. Lot of contested catches and the defender is right there. They are harder to come down with against NFL DBs. I keep saying this and people keep ignoring me but separation and catching the ball are the two things NFL scouts value above all. He has to find a way to get more separation and for me it is all about being more precise route runner. He isn't a burner but he is fast enough - if he can be more precise running routes he will get that separation more consistently and make it in the NFL. 

 

And he got a lot of free releases in college. He will not get that nearly as much in the pros. 

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Alphadawg7 Hall of Famer

Alphadawg7

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1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

We need to get some views and have this stand out for a bit - Fan favorite right here

 

 

This was awesome!  

 

If anyone watched E:60 piece on him, then you will also know he had lots of offers but he CHOSE Buffalo.  

 

Maybe we can finally put to rest all the nonsense players don’t want to be here when we landed a bunch in FA who had other offers and our draft picks were so excited about being here too like Ed, Sills, Devin, etc.

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Alphadawg7 Hall of Famer

Alphadawg7

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5 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

And he got a lot of free releases in college. He will not get that nearly as much in the pros. 

 

It’s easy to point out the things he and all rookies will face as challenges transitioning to the NFL.  It’s another thing to overlook just how high level this kid was with zero coaching and experience playing WR up to that point and at a pretty good size school.

 

You show me a kid who emerges as one of the best in the nation in college with zero experience playing that position, and I will show you a kid I want on my team to try and develop further every time.  

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Alphadawg7 Hall of Famer

Alphadawg7

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27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's because he doesn't separate. Even on those highlights on that video. Lot of contested catches and the defender is right there. They are harder to come down with against NFL DBs. I keep saying this and people keep ignoring me but separation and catching the ball are the two things NFL scouts value above all. He has to find a way to get more separation and for me it is all about being more precise route runner. He isn't a burner but he is fast enough - if he can be more precise running routes he will get that separation more consistently and make it in the NFL. 

 

Then watch more highlights or something, showed plenty of separation and route running on film.  

 

I agree with you fully on the importance of separation of course, but I just don’t agree with he struggles doing it in college.  Now how he projects in scouts minds is a different scenario, but just saying he was a very good route runner at West Virginia and his reel is full of all kinds of play where he torched DBs with his feet, cuts, and routes.

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Wayne Cubed All Pro

Wayne Cubed

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Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

It’s easy to point out the things he and all rookies will face as challenges transitioning the NFL.  It’s another thing to overlook just how high level this kid was with zero coaching and experience playing WR up to that point and at a pretty good size school.

 

You show me a kid who emerges as one of the best in the nation in college with zero experience playing that position, and I will show you a kid I want on my team to try and develop further every time.  

 

Whoa, relax. I get it, you really like the kid and have said as much. It's also ok to be critical and realistic of his chances of making an NFL team. He has an uphill battle and if you don't think that you are fooling yourself. There's no need to defend every post that points his short comings or things he needs to work on. It's a discussion.

 

No one's rooting for this kid to fail.

 

Deep breath.

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Alphadawg7 Hall of Famer

Alphadawg7

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1 minute ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Whoa, relax. I get it, you really like the kid and have said as much. It's also ok to be critical and realistic of his chances of making an NFL team. He has an uphill battle and if you don't think that you are fooling yourself. There's no need to defend every post that points his short comings or things he needs to work on. It's a discussion.

 

No one's rooting for this kid to fail.

 

Deep breath.

 

Ha I am calm, all good...and my reply to you wasn’t meant to be hostile or worked up in any way.

 

I was only highlighting what makes him specifically intriguing and exciting as a prospect compared to any other UDFA.

 

I have no idea if he makes this roster or not.  But this kid has just got something else to him you can’t coach, and that’s exciting.

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billsfan1959 Veteran

billsfan1959

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1 minute ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Whoa, relax. I get it, you really like the kid and have said as much. It's also ok to be critical and realistic of his chances of making an NFL team. He has an uphill battle and if you don't think that you are fooling yourself. There's no need to defend every post that points his short comings or things he needs to work on. It's a discussion.

 

No one's rooting for this kid to fail.

 

Deep breath.

There was nothing he said that was over the top or that would justify telling him to  “relax” or “take a deep breath.” He was simply providing sound responses to superficial critiques...

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Wayne Cubed All Pro

Wayne Cubed

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Just now, billsfan1959 said:

There was nothing he said that was over the top or that would justify telling him to  “relax” or “take a deep breath.” He was simply providing sound responses to superficial critiques...

 

I don't think Alpha needs you to help him out here, thanks for jumping in though. He just told a guy who spends hours watching film and watches a lot of prospects to "go watch more film."

 

And they weren't "superficial" critiques. I've watched him. Gunner has watched him. He got a lot free releases. If you care to challenge that claim, I'd love to have a discussion and you can tell me more how he didn't.

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Alphadawg7 Hall of Famer

Alphadawg7

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7 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

I don't think Alpha needs you to help him out here, thanks for jumping in though. He just told a guy who spends hours watching film and watches a lot of prospects to "go watch more film."

 

And they weren't "superficial" critiques. I've watched him. Gunner has watched him. He got a lot free releases. If you care to challenge that claim, I'd love to have a discussion and you can tell me more how he didn't.

 

First, I didn’t say “go watch more film”.  Gunner specifically sighted the clips in that very tiny sample size highlight reel.  I said watch the bigger reels then if that’s what he is basing his statement on.  Wasn’t meant to be disrespectful to him and I am sure he knows that.

 

I even agreed on what he said, I just disagreed he struggled with it in College.  I also said scouts projections are a different story and was only sighting what he did in college.

 

And I watch a lot of film too ;)  

 

All good, I’m not bothered by anything here.  Just clarifying my previous comments as you seem to have taken them to be harsh when it wasn’t my intention at all in either comment.  So just further clearing the air is all :) Go Bills

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Wayne Cubed All Pro

Wayne Cubed

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Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

First, I didn’t say “go watch more film”.  Gunner specifically sighted the clips in that very tiny sample size highlight reel.  I said watch the bigger reels then if that’s what he is basing his statement on.  Wasn’t meant to be disrespectful to him and I am sure he knows that.

 

I even agreed on what he said, I just disagreed he struggled with it in College.  I also said scouts projections are a different story and was only sighting what he did in college.

 

And I watch a lot of film too ;)  

 

All good, I’m not bothered by anything here.  Just clarifying my previous comments as you seem to have taken them to be harsh when it wasn’t my intention at all in either comment.

 

No no, I was fine until billsfan jumped in like you needed defending or something.

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billsfan1959 Veteran

billsfan1959

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8 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

I don't think Alpha needs you to help him out here, thanks for jumping in though. He just told a guy who spends hours watching film and watches a lot of prospects to "go watch more film."

 

And they weren't "superficial" critiques. I've watched him. Gunner has watched him. He got a lot free releases. If you care to challenge that claim, I'd love to have a discussion and you can tell me more how he didn't.

I wasn’t referring to Gunner’s critique - I was referring to yours (as it was his response to you that you quoted). And you are right, he doesn’t need my help. And I would say your claim of a lot of free releases is a bit superficial

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Wayne Cubed All Pro

Wayne Cubed

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Just now, billsfan1959 said:

I wasn’t referring to Gunner’s critique - I was referring to yours (as it was his response to you that you quoted). And you are right, he doesn’t need my help. And I would say your claim of a lot of free releases is a bit superficial

 

And you would be wrong.

 

It's not superficial if you can literally watch these games and see the free releases. Its what other scouts and pundits saw too. My guess is you haven't watched him. Notice how Alpha didn't say that wasn't the case? Or didn't dispute it? 

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BillsfanAZ RFA

BillsfanAZ

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1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

What’s this guys deal? All I see anywhere are people saying good things about him. Not even just Bills fans. He put up good numbers too. Why didn’t he get drafted? What is he slow or something?

As a WVU alum I watched just about every game over the past years. Sills can get separation and he doesnt drop many balls. He doesnt have a lot of experience as a WR. He wasnt asked to do a lot of blocking down field because WV wasnt a big running offense with all the WR weapons they had. So there may be questions about his frame and blocking ability. I just watched the games but didnt study his film so I am not sure how many different routes WV asked him to run. Slants, go routes, and fades is where he caught a lot of balls. He did play in the Big 12 which isnt known for defense. Sills production was almost identical the past two years. He had a lot of TD's but he also shared the field with Jennings, Simms, and Wesco. Jennings and Wesco were both drafted. Simms stayed in college. 

 

I am not sure if Sills makes the team this year but he will definitely make it a tough decision. I think it will come down to his route running and blocking. He is a huge red zone target who will go up to get the ball. He is very reliable. 

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Reed83HOF All Pro

Reed83HOF

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Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK OK I was like "sorry, how many threads we need for an UDFA?" but I watched it and at 24 seconds he got me.

 

I give this kid props for the extra effort and I gotta leave it here.

 

 

LOL. The last thing I wanted to do was start another, but it would be buried everywhere else. I wasn't even for looking for a critique of him as a player; since those threads already exist. It's just refreshing again to see a player:

 

1.) Want to play for the Bills

2.) Put some effort in as small as this is

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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57 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's because he doesn't separate. Even on those highlights on that video. Lot of contested catches and the defender is right there. They are harder to come down with against NFL DBs. I keep saying this and people keep ignoring me but separation and catching the ball are the two things NFL scouts value above all. He has to find a way to get more separation and for me it is all about being more precise route runner. He isn't a burner but he is fast enough - if he can be more precise running routes he will get that separation more consistently and make it in the NFL. 

 

I agree with you, Gunner, but what I see is he seems to have an instinct for positioning his body to make the catch and disadvantage the defender.  And I'm not sure you can teach that.

 

He also seems willing to put in the extra work, so we'll see.

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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1 hour ago, Boca BIlls said:

This years Da'Rick, This years "My guy"

 

He's not really, but there's another thread to talk about that.

 

This one is to draw attention to the amusing fan vid the kid put up on Twitter.  For reals, check it out - get at least 30 seconds into it. 

4 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

No problem! Thought it would be fun for every to see.

 

This was a real cool pic he has up on twitter as well:

 

https://twitter.com/DS5_/status/1119979779518795776

 

You're a Bad Man

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Reed83HOF All Pro

Reed83HOF

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3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He's not really, but there's another thread to talk about that.

 

This one is to draw attention to the amusing fan vid the kid put up on Twitter.  For reals, check it out - get at least 30 seconds into it. 

 

You're a Bad Man

 

@Lurker That is how it's done
 

 

 

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transplantbillsfan All Pro

transplantbillsfan

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Our top 4 WRs are set, plus we have one guy who’s going to be listed as a WR but is almost purely a return guy.

 

So do we keep a 6th WR or do you legitimately think Sills pushes another one of our guys there off the roster? Zay is the only one I can see, but I don’t think Beane wants to let him go considering he already started talking potential upcoming contract he’s gonna need to negotiate with him in the next couple years.

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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55 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Then watch more highlights or something, showed plenty of separation and route running on film.  

 

I agree with you fully on the importance of separation of course, but I just don’t agree with he struggles doing it in college.  Now how he projects in scouts minds is a different scenario, but just saying he was a very good route runner at West Virginia and his reel is full of all kinds of play where he torched DBs with his feet, cuts, and routes.

 

He isn't a prospect I watched enough of to have a full grade. They don't go on the board unless I have 3 full games but I saw the Texas game and the Oklahoma State game live on TV and I thought it was a problem in both games. He isn't physical enough off the line to beat press and then he lacks a bit of precision in his route running to create clear separation. Like I say I didn't really dig into the tape and grade him but I always thought he was a late day 3 pick. Slightly surprised he went undrafted and he has a chance to be an NFL player but he needs to sharpen up the precision of his routes. Otherwise he just will not separate from top flight NFL DBs. The good news is that is something that is coachable. He has enough speed, he has good size and he has good hands so the building blocks are there. 

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree with you, Gunner, but what I see is he seems to have an instinct for positioning his body to make the catch and disadvantage the defender.  And I'm not sure you can teach that.

 

He also seems willing to put in the extra work, so we'll see.

 

Yea he does Hapless. I agree. Whether he is able to outsmart NFL corners that way I am a bit less sure. There is occasionally a guy tho - I would argue Dez Bryant was one - who is never really a great route runner never really a big separation guy and does use body position and smarts to win more than his share of contested catches. I don't think his talent is on Dez's level but I give Sills a chance of making this roster. I suspect they will want a big guy somewhere in there if possible so Sills and Williams are in that mix. 

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