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Giants letting Landon Collins walk


Mr. WEO

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2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

really?  Keep Poyer.....because he's cheap?

 

This FO has tons of cash that would not force them to stick with a mediocrity like Jordan Poyer.

Poyer is better than mediocre- pretty damn solid safety in the NFL.

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2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Disagree with that. Poyer is very good in coverage. He misses the odd tackle but his coverage skills when the ball is in the air are excellent. 

 

I don't think he is mediocre. Not at all. 

100 percent agreed.

 

Out of all the holes the Bills have, Poyer is not one of them.

 

Has some flaws but overall is a pretty descent football player.

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As much as I love Landon Collins and would LOVE to see the Bills add him...you're talking about probably THE top free agent on the market outside of Le'Veon Bell. Collins is going to get paid CRAZY money. He'll be the highest paid safety in the league.

When I think of "judicious spending", making Landon Collins the highest paid safety in NFL history when you already have two very good safeties in their prime doesn't exactly make sense. I'd love it, believe me, but it ain't happening.


Oh, and one more thing: Letting a 3-time Pro Bowl safety entering his prime walk away for nothing when you could keep him on your roster for a mere $11 million, and doing this WHILE paying the ghost of Eli Manning $23 million is absolute roster malpractice. Gettelman is a clown.

Edited by Logic
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5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Thoughts?

 

I say why not?  Upgrade from Poyer, nice match with Hyde.

I say keep all 3 go big nickel 80% of snaps. This would give us the ability to be better against what teams are doing these days with all the short quick passing gms. Plus we still can stop the run with these guys out there I say this gives us a massive advantage. 

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7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Why not get better?  Poyer is soft.  His idea of "open field tackle" is getting stiff armed to the ground by WRs and RBs.

Why waste a load of money on at best a marginal upgrade when we have massive roster holes.

 

A big no from me.

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Why not get far more physical in the secondary?  I don't understand the downside.

Collins can't cover.

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9 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I think you better compare the stat lines and look again.  The massive upgrade is in name recognition only.  Poyer should have made the Probowl the last 2 years, not Collins.

This.  Don't really understand the hate on Poyer.  He was the best safety on the team last year.

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11 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I think you better compare the stat lines and look again.  The massive upgrade is in name recognition only.  Poyer should have made the Probowl the last 2 years, not Collins.

 

Who is Poyer better than?  Derwin James?  Eric Weddle?  Come on....

 

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Collins to me is a similar situation to Mosely. Collins is a hitter. A physical tone setter at safety. But that isn't what people pay the big $$s for a safety these days. You have to be able to cover 1 on 1 and play the ball and take it away. The last two years Collins has defended 10 passes and had 4 INTs (Poyer has defended 19 passes and had 9 INTs for reference). That total lack of production in the critical elements of modern day safety play from Collins is why he is being allowed to walk. 

 

 

 

Teams still need to cover the run, especially with more mobile QBs.  Collins may have had a down year, but he's still a stopper.  He's consistently ranked as a top safety.

 

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

This.  Don't really understand the hate on Poyer.  He was the best safety on the team last year.

 

 

Other than Micah Hyde...?

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12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think it depends what he’s looking for... if he is looking for a massive 60-70 million dollar deal I’d pass

 

if he is willing to play on a 2 year deal for 16 million or so I’d be game

 

Collins will be looking for that kind of deal, but the FA market at safety is pretty crowded this year and there aren't a lot of guys that get big money at that position regardless of market. 

 

That said he's the best at the position on the market and someone may well cough up a big contract for him.  I doubt it'll be us, as nice as having him would be.

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13 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Collins can’t cover.  He’s really good at the line of scrimmage.  

Exactly, Giants didn't keep him for that reason (and the high $$$). He's great against the run, gets exposed playing zone coverage. 

 

We'd be worse off in pass coverage replacing Poyer. He'd be great if we played in a division with monster running backs trying to stuff it down our throat, but AFCE is pretty pass happy and has poor running games.

 

And the Giants don't even want him to help stuff the Cowboys running game..

3 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

This.  Don't really understand the hate on Poyer.  He was the best safety on the team last year.

We'd be downgrading in pass coverage replacing Poyer. Better against the run sure.. but let's get that done in the front 7. I love our secondary unit.

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2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Who is Poyer better than?  Derwin James?  Eric Weddle?  Come on....

 

 

Teams still need to cover the run, especially with more mobile QBs.  Collins may have had a down year, but he's still a stopper.  He's consistently ranked as a top safety.

 

 

 

Other than Micah Hyde...?

 

Hyde was fine last year.   Poyer was better.   They are both good safeties.  

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3 hours ago, MJS said:

No way should we even worry about upgrading at safety. That's the second to last position on the team that needs to be addressed (first is QB).

I mean I really like our safetys too but I don’t even think a team should stop trying to upgrade.  I mean it would be silly to throw big money at Collins but he is a really good player. It’s weird the Giants are letting him walk for nothing.

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16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

really?  Keep Poyer.....because he's cheap?

 

This FO has tons of cash that would not force them to stick with a mediocrity like Jordan Poyer.

Wait so all of a sudden we dont like Poyer?

 

whaaaaaaat

 

I have a better idea......since there is NOTHING wrong with Jordon Poyer how about we spend out dollars and draft picks on places that we are NOT good at

 

Like

 

OL

Pass Rush

TE

Wide Receiver

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1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Hyde was fine last year.   Poyer was better.   They are both good safeties.  

 

No way.   PFF has him ranked #45 for safeties and Hyde #6.

 

9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Wait so all of a sudden we dont like Poyer?

 

whaaaaaaat

 

I have a better idea......since there is NOTHING wrong with Jordon Poyer how about we spend out dollars and draft picks on places that we are NOT good at

 

Like

 

OL

Pass Rush

TE

Wide Receiver

 

By taking a guy like Collins, you don't wipe out the ability to strengthen those other positions too.......

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Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

No way. 

 

 

By taking a guy like Collins, you don't wipe out the ability to strengthen those other positions too.......

If you are simply saying that a "in the box safety" would benefit the defense......I agree with you and would have a place on the team

 

Poyer and Hyde have been one of the top safety tandems in the league.....there really is no disputing that.   The problem really is resource allocation we are so bad at some other positions and are in a position now to get better I am not sure how much sense it makes getting a "name" for a lot of dollars (and saying this I dont know what Collins would even cost)

 

At this moment in time

 

our OL is horrid

our best WR is a undrafted free agent that got put on the practice squad last year

we have no starting TE

 

 

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2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Hyde was fine last year.   Poyer was better.   They are both good safeties.  

Sorry but Poyer was not better at all... statistics do not tell the whole story for safeties

 

The analytics say that Hyde was better all year... he is even a better tackler and he is smaller 

 

Poyer is good in coverage but I would never take him over Hyde 

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9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Sorry but Poyer was not better at all... statistics do not tell the whole story for safeties

 

The analytics say that Hyde was better all year... he is even a better tackler and he is smaller 

 

Poyer is good in coverage but I would never take him over Hyde 

Which analytics?  Are we strictly speaking of PFF?

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14 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Which analytics?  Are we strictly speaking of PFF?

Any site that has advanced analytics.

 

or just use your eyes... Poyer was one of the worst tackling safeties in the league. Hyde wasn’t 

 

they both can cover but Poyer gets abused in the run game

 

Hyde isn’t no world beater in that category but he is a better tackler than Poyer.. and it hurts our run defense having 2 center fielders 

 

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2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean I really like our safetys too but I don’t even think a team should stop trying to upgrade.  I mean it would be silly to throw big money at Collins but he is a really good player. It’s weird the Giants are letting him walk for nothing.

 

You can't upgrade every single position every year. In my opinion safety is at the bottom of the list and will be as long as Poyer and Hyde are here. If they need depth, do it in the draft.

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2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Any site that has advanced analytics.

 

or just use your eyes... Poyer was one of the worst tackling safeties in the league. Hyde wasn’t 

 

they both can cover but Poyer gets abused in the run game

 

Hyde isn’t no world beater in that category but he is a better tackler than Poyer.. and it hurts our run defense having 2 center fielders 

 

 

 

Exactly.

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3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

No way.   PFF has him ranked #45 for safeties and Hyde #6.

 

Collins was ranked #39 in 2018 btw.   For what he would want won't be worth the incremental $$ IMHO.

 

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Who is Poyer better than?  Derwin James?  Eric Weddle?  Come on....

Poyer better than Weddle in 2018 by a large margin in every measurable

 

Weddle (made Pro bowl on rep/name only in 2018)

      Game Game Def Def Def Def Def Fumb Fumb Fumb Fumb Fumb   Tack Tack Tack Tack Tack    
Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Yds TD Lng PD FF Fmb FR Yds TD Sk Comb Solo Ast TFL QBHits Sfty AV
33 BAL FS 32 16 16 0 0 0 0 3           1.0 68 54 14 2 4   9

No picks, no forced fumbles, no recoveries, no TDs and one sack with 3 passes defended. 68 TT

 

Poyer

      Game Game Def Def Def Def Def Fumb Fumb Fumb Fumb Fumb   Tack Tack Tack Tack Tack    
Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Yds TD Lng PD FF Fmb FR Yds TD Sk Comb Solo Ast TFL QBHits Sfty AV
27 BUF FS 21 16 16 4 11 0 11 6 1 0 1 0 0 2.0 100 73 27 9 3  

INTs 4>0, PD 6>3, FF 1>0, FR 1>0, Sk 2>1, Tackles 100>68, TFL 9>2

 

I keep the younger dude with better stats.

 

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1 minute ago, freddyjj said:

 

Collins was ranked #39 in 2018 btw.   For what he would want won't be worth the incremental $$ IMHO.

 

Poyer better than Weddle in 2018 by a large margin in every measurable

 

Weddle (made Pro bowl on rep/name only in 2018)

      Game Game Def Def Def Def Def Fumb Fumb Fumb Fumb Fumb   Tack Tack Tack Tack Tack    
Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Yds TD Lng PD FF Fmb FR Yds TD Sk Comb Solo Ast TFL QBHits Sfty AV
33 BAL FS 32 16 16 0 0 0 0 3           1.0 68 54 14 2 4   9

No picks, no forced fumbles, no recoveries, no TDs and one sack with 3 passes defended. 68 TT

 

Poyer

      Game Game Def Def Def Def Def Fumb Fumb Fumb Fumb Fumb   Tack Tack Tack Tack Tack    
Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Yds TD Lng PD FF Fmb FR Yds TD Sk Comb Solo Ast TFL QBHits Sfty AV
27 BUF FS 21 16 16 4 11 0 11 6 1 0 1 0 0 2.0 100 73 27 9 3  

INTs 4>0, PD 6>3, FF 1>0, FR 1>0, Sk 2>1, Tackles 100>68, TFL 9>2

 

I keep the younger dude with better stats.

 

  •  

 

 

His worst year on and awful defense overall---and still better than Poyer.

 

The Bills run D is mediocre at best.  They need to get better.  Having another safety who can tackle an opponent would be a plus, not a minus.

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1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

His worst year on and awful defense overall---and still better than Poyer.

 

The Bills run D is mediocre at best.  They need to get better.  Having another safety who can tackle an opponent would be a plus, not a minus.

OK so make an offer to sign him - what would you be willing to pay him?

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1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

4 years 20 million.

Maybe I could get on board for that.  Expensive for a part time Big Nickle Safety

 

Collins stats last year were not better than Poyer's btw

Collins No INTs, 1 FF, no sacks, 5 TFL.  

Games Def Interceptions Fumbles   Tackles    
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Yds TD Lng PD FF Fmb FR Yds TD Sk Comb Solo Ast TFL QBHits Sfty AV
2018* 24 NYG SS 21 12 12 0 0 0 0 4 1 0 0 0 0   96 67 29 5 2   5


 

 

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12 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Maybe I could get on board for that.  Expensive for a part time Big Nickle Safety

 

Collins stats last year were not better than Poyer's btw

Collins No INTs, 1 FF, no sacks, 5 TFL.  

Games Def Interceptions Fumbles   Tackles    
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Int Yds TD Lng PD FF Fmb FR Yds TD Sk Comb Solo Ast TFL QBHits Sfty AV
2018* 24 NYG SS 21 12 12 0 0 0 0 4 1 0 0 0 0   96 67 29 5 2   5


 

 

That was only 12 games and his worst year on a bad defense. He is a 3x pro bowler and 1x all pro by 24... he is the second best safety on the market behind earl Thomas and is really good

 

Put him on a better D with a great DBacks coach in McDermott and he would be a stud 

 

I wouldn’t pay him the moon but he certainly would be an upgrade. I never once suggested cutting Poyer either , he is just weak on run downs and is a coverage guy... but Hyde is a cover guy and having both out there 24/7 hurts our run D

Edited by Buffalo716
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