Allen 3000 yards. + 1000 yards

[formerlyofCtown]

9 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

And for the non racist comparison....

 

Allen at this point is most comparable to Roethlisberger, Steve McNair, Randall Cunningham, and Daunte Culpepper.  All big strong armed guys that ran early in thier careers.

 

Jackson’s ceiling might be as high as Tarkenton or Staubach both of which had 57% career completion percentages(in a far different era I will give you). Jackson is a far better thrower than Vick but without the cannon Vick had. And at this point in his career is more like Elway with less of an arm.  

 

And the non social justice warrior comparison.

Randall Cunningham ceiling for Lamar Jackson.  Not because hes is or isnt black but because its an accurate statement ( I honestly believe he will have a better career than Cunningham if they dont change offenses often).

I said before the draft Josh Allens ceiling is John Elway and that is accurate.

And yes other than the fact they really dont remind me of each other in any way The Lamar and Elway comparison is a good one.? 

 

John Elway was athletic with a cannon for an arm which of the two does that remind you of.

Edited February 25, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[BobChalmers]

13 hours ago, SF Bills Fan said:

Problem is that if he’s running that much, the exposure to injury is greater. I’m a huge fan of those big runs, but it’s always a relief when it ends with no serious contact. 

 

The reality is he didn't really expose himself to much when he was running.  He was hurt when he was staying in the pocket.

 

The way he runs - fast and aggressive - actually protects him, IMHO.  It doesn't hurt that he's bigger and thicker than the guys trying to stop him.

 

Also keep in mind he didn't run that often - what he did do is rip off big chunks of yardage when he did run.  If you go back and look at his runs, there's a lot of smarts in how he chose to run vs. throw it away.

Edited February 25, 2019 by BobChalmers

[elltrain22]

Realistically, I think Allen can pretty easily amass over 4,000 yards. I think its more than fair to project anywhere from 3200 to 3800 passing yards, 650 to 800 yards rushing, and at least 32 touchdowns (22 passing, and 10 rushing). These are low-ball figures, and also numbers that account for what wee have on offense now. In a couple of months, hopefully, we've added 2-3 better O-lineman, 1-2 better WR's, and hopefully a new RB that can either replace McCoy or be the starter for this team. If and when that happens, these expected numbers will elevate. 

[HOUSE]

You guys are bored today huh ?

 

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by HOUSE

[Tatonka68]

3472 yards passing 26 TDS 12 INTS + 1017 yards rushing and 10 TDS.

 

McCoy 1093 Yards rushing 4 TDS

Edited February 25, 2019 by Tatonka68

[BuffaloHokie13]

9 hours ago, klos63 said:

combine that with 800 yards rushing and 15 more TD's and he's in the MVP discussion.

Cam Newton's 2015 MVP season was 3,800 & 35 passing w/ 600 & 10 rushing. And that was an incredibly dominant season.

[billsredneck1]

16 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

Allen reminds me much more of Elway.  Young had a pretty weak arm.  Elway could elude you and then throw a laser beam down field to demoralize you.  

to me it's a cross between kelly and elway...

[Talley56]

17 hours ago, SF Bills Fan said:

Problem is that if he’s running that much, the exposure to injury is greater. I’m a huge fan of those big runs, but it’s always a relief when it ends with no serious contact. 

Agreed, I am fine with him running as long as he slides before taking hits.  Of course even if he doesn’t take hits there is still the risk of non-contact injuries.

[BillsfanAZ]

I think Allen's rushing attempts will decrease. He has shown he can run so it one more thing the defenses will be watching for. With a better Oline and running game I hope his attempts are limited to planned runs and some scrambles. Added talent at TE and WR should give him more targets to get the ball to. He was also throwing the ball away more the last quarter of the season. Then again if the middle of the field opens up before his eyes, I think it would be a temptation he cannot resist. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Cam Newton's 2015 MVP season was 3,800 & 35 passing w/ 600 & 10 rushing. And that was an incredibly dominant season.

This is what I’m talking about.  I get being excited but holy crap, these are unrealistic expectations.  Allen averaged 170 yards passing.  He also suffered an injury so probably he shouldn’t be running as much (I know he was in the pocket when he got hurt but still).  Also, DCs are going to give him the Tyrod treatment next year.

 

lets get close to 60% passing and 3,000 yards and go from there.  

[dollars 2 donuts]

If he got 3,500 hundred passing, 640 rushing and 30 total TDs (passing and rushing) I would be fine with those stats, with the caveat that I need more than 20 TDs passing.  23-7 P/R?  sure, fine.

[John from Riverside]

I really do not want to see Josh getting 1000 yards rushing.......

 

Even if he can do it.....we have running backs for that.....

 

"Your paying that OL to block"

"Let him block"

 

I want to see Josh grow as a pocket passer.........with the thread of run making teams have to account for it.......and when he does....runs for 1st downs and protects himself.

 

And the next ####### I see taking a shot at him as he is trying to get out of bounds or get down should be met with 5 bills trying to rip that player's head off

[C.Biscuit97]

34 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I really do not want to see Josh getting 1000 yards rushing.......

 

Even if he can do it.....we have running backs for that.....

 

"Your paying that OL to block"

"Let him block"

 

I want to see Josh grow as a pocket passer.........with the thread of run making teams have to account for it.......and when he does....runs for 1st downs and protects himself.

 

And the next ####### I see taking a shot at him as he is trying to get out of bounds or get down should be met with 5 bills trying to rip that player's head off

I agree with this John.  But if the Bills don’t do anything when Gronk does that to White, they aren’t doing it for Allen.  I get being disciplined but I hate being soft.

[Simon Says]

i think 3,000 yards passing is certainly within reach; 20 or 21 QBs hit it this year. I dont want Allen having to rush for 1,000 yards;thats just asking for trouble. i really dont care that he was,what, the 2nd best rushing QB>? It is dangerous and not sustainable

[Alphadawg7]

21 hours ago, SF Bills Fan said:

Problem is that if he’s running that much, the exposure to injury is greater. I’m a huge fan of those big runs, but it’s always a relief when it ends with no serious contact. 

 

Here is the thing about that...this "concern" is understandable, its just not actually the threat a lot of people assume it to be.  I went back and looked at all the running QBs to look for major injuries that came from running with the ball, and you will be surprised how few there are.  The most notable is Culpepper who took a freak hit on an 18 yard run.  People blame that injury on the downfall of Culpepper, but people forget that was his first year without Moss and they started 2-5 as Culpepper came crashing down to earth after Moss left.  In the 7 seasons leading up to the injury, he only had 2 really good seasons, one involved throwing to Carter and Moss in 2000, and the other still had Moss in 2004. 

 

Even RG3 blew his knee out in the backfield untouched trying to pick up a fumbled snap.  He should not have even been in that game, and its why Redskins are blamed for ruining his career because the let him play with an existing knee sprain and a big brace when they should have sat their young star and let him heal properly.  

 

But overall, most these QB's known to be dangerous runners didn't have a lot of injuries on the run, and most came from big hits in the pocket where a QB is most vulnerable.  In todays game especially, QB's have so many options while running to avoid the contact and players are even more scared to hit them too.  I really don't see Allen running as something to be overly concerned about.  He is an oak tree out there, deceptively fast and as the season wore on seemed to stop playing like a LB and was smarter with avoiding the contact.  

 

For me, I am more concerned about the massive shots he keeps taking in the pocket, like even on the 75 year strike to Foster against Jax, then I am of him getting hurt while scrambling for a big gain.  Not saying he cant get hurt running, but odds are higher he will get hurt in the pocket if we cant protect him better.

 

NOTE:  He does have to watch himself more while trying to always lay big blocks for our RB's as he has been embarrassing defenders running, stiff arming, and blocking...so these defenders are licking their chops when he is out running as a blocker to lay a big hit given its safer since he is no longer a "passer" in that situation.  

[RoyBatty is alive]

I hope Allen doesnt have 1,000 yards rushing.

[John from Riverside]

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Here is the thing about that...this "concern" is understandable, its just not actually the threat a lot of people assume it to be.  I went back and looked at all the running QBs to look for major injuries that came from running with the ball, and you will be surprised how few there are.  The most notable is Culpepper who took a freak hit on an 18 yard run.  People blame that injury on the downfall of Culpepper, but people forget that was his first year without Moss and they started 2-5 as Culpepper came crashing down to earth after Moss left.  In the 7 seasons leading up to the injury, he only had 2 really good seasons, one involved throwing to Carter and Moss in 2000, and the other still had Moss in 2004. 

 

Even RG3 blew his knee out in the backfield untouched trying to pick up a fumbled snap.  He should not have even been in that game, and its why Redskins are blamed for ruining his career because the let him play with an existing knee sprain and a big brace when they should have sat their young star and let him heal properly.  

 

But overall, most these QB's known to be dangerous runners didn't have a lot of injuries on the run, and most came from big hits in the pocket where a QB is most vulnerable.  In todays game especially, QB's have so many options while running to avoid the contact and players are even more scared to hit them too.  I really don't see Allen running as something to be overly concerned about.  He is an oak tree out there, deceptively fast and as the season wore on seemed to stop playing like a LB and was smarter with avoiding the contact.  

 

For me, I am more concerned about the massive shots he keeps taking in the pocket, like even on the 75 year strike to Foster against Jax, then I am of him getting hurt while scrambling for a big gain.  Not saying he cant get hurt running, but odds are higher he will get hurt in the pocket if we cant protect him better.

 

NOTE:  He does have to watch himself more while trying to always lay big blocks for our RB's as he has been embarrassing defenders running, stiff arming, and blocking...so these defenders are licking their chops when he is out running as a blocker to lay a big hit given its safer since he is no longer a "passer" in that situation.  

I get the arguement.....its just that Josh Allen because he is a horse tries to truck and leap over defenders when he runs......really needs to work on getting out of bounds and not taking the extra yards, not going head first, and sliding much earlier then he does as to not take contact.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

26 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I get the arguement.....its just that Josh Allen because he is a horse tries to truck and leap over defenders when he runs......really needs to work on getting out of bounds and not taking the extra yards, not going head first, and sliding much earlier then he does as to not take contact.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's why I said he really started changing that in the second half of the season.  He was doing more of that before he got hurt (which was from a hit in the pocket I might add).  

[Bronxbomber21]

On 2/24/2019 at 5:45 PM, JerseyBills said:

 

Very possible. He is likely the best overall running QB. Power, Speed, agility , but his secret weapon is he can hit any spot on the field from anywhere on the field so he really puts certain defenders in a bind, they'll freeze up and that half second causes a Defensive Breakdown.

 

I expect a big time jump in year 2 , his first full NFL offseason , it was a big jump from his  Wyoming training , now he's getting top of the line coaching and mentiorship and this will be his first full NFL offseason and I think he can benefit more than other QBs and his upside is just ridiculously high in so many areas. He checks alot of the boxes for Legit Franchise QB material. His moxie, swag, confidence and natural leadership are almost as important as his on field ability

I agree i really think were going to see more of the Josh Allen we say week 17 vs Miami. I think the game is slowing down for him and thats scary if they give him weapons this off season.

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, Bronxbomber21 said:

I agree i really think were going to see more of the Josh Allen we say week 17 vs Miami. I think the game is slowing down for him and thats scary if they give him weapons this off season.

That was such an impressive game! And ppl forget he basically ended the 1st half with a Pick 6 to Jones making it 14-14 , when we could have went conservative and guaranteed a 7 point halftime lead. How will this effect his 2nd half play??

 

He dominated !!! Abused that defense. Rewatch that half again ,  That was a brutal beatdown, led by Allen and a great defensive showing and sealed Gases fate.

 

This is fantastic to have this positive energy and momentum surrounding him going into a crucial off season for him personally. Edmunds also might have had his best game. His upside is sky high too. Same thing applies. 

[Putin]

On 2/24/2019 at 4:10 PM, SF Bills Fan said:

Problem is that if he’s running that much, the exposure to injury is greater. I’m a huge fan of those big runs, but it’s always a relief when it ends with no serious contact. 

When he got hurt last year was that on the running play ? ( IMO ) there’s a better chance of him getting hurt when he’s in the pocket and does not see a defender coming, that’s why I believe it is crucial that if we want to keep Josh healthy and playing ALL 19 games next year ( awe MUST put a decent OL ) in front of him , 

I’m  not denying that there’s a chance he can get hurt running the ball,  but it was obvious that when he came back from that injury he 

( learn ) to go (out of bounds / or slide) and not risk an injury for that extra yard or two , 

 

[Bing Bong]

On 2/25/2019 at 7:39 AM, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Cam Newton's 2015 MVP season was 3,800 & 35 passing w/ 600 & 10 rushing. And that was an incredibly dominant season.

38 TDs would mean we have a top 5 offense lol. That would be straight up prolific and a 180 from the offense we have last year. 

 

Nothing against Allen as an individual football player but nothing I saw from the offense last year points to moving the chains enough to get 38 TDs.. Even on Allen's good days that offense was start and stop every other drive. I can see the yards but that many TDs is way more a team effort, Daboll's play calling included. I can't even think of a redzone target that would get us double digit TDs receiving.

 

Allen would have to show dramatic improvement over just one year AND we'd need a complete overhaul on offensive personnel.. but for the purpose of off-season threads.. 38 would be dope. I'm down with that.

Edited February 26, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[YattaOkasan]

29 minutes ago, Putin said:

When he got hurt last year was that on the running play ? ( IMO ) there’s a better chance of him getting hurt when he’s in the pocket and does not see a defender coming, that’s why I believe it is crucial that if we want to keep Josh healthy and playing ALL 19 games next year ( awe MUST put a decent OL ) in front of him , 

I’m  not denying that there’s a chance he can get hurt running the ball,  but it was obvious that when he came back from that injury he 

( learn ) to go (out of bounds / or slide) and not risk an injury for that extra yard or two , 

 

He as injured in the pocket.  I don't want designed runs so I don't see him getting to 1K on the ground.  I agree with 3500+ through the air would be the goal.

[Putin]

7 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

He as injured in the pocket.  I don't want designed runs so I don't see him getting to 1K on the ground.  I agree with 3500+ through the air would be the goal.

I don’t think he will get a 1000 yards rushing, but what I do believe is  that just like Cam Newton the run will be a big part of Allen’s overall repertoire 

[colin]

i think 4200+ total yards and 35+ total TDs is in the cards.

 

we need some more weapons on O, and we need a much better line, I think we will have 4 or 5 new starters on O next season.

[dakrider]

23 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

If he got 3,500 hundred passing, 640 rushing and 30 total TDs (passing and rushing) I would be fine with those stats, with the caveat that I need more than 20 TDs passing.  23-7 P/R?  sure, fine.

 

This is about what I expect to see as well. 200 yards a game is 3200 season, so avg. 220 a game is very doable.   As far as running, I think its great for  QB to be able to take advantage of situations to run.  The key is to just take what is available and not take the hit.  Get down or get out of bounds even if it means not getting the first down.  For Quarterbacks, it seems standing in the pocket and having guys crash into their legs is biggest threats.  Look at the Joe Theismann injury, Alex Smith, Colt McCoy..   Now if Allen tries to get that extra yard and take the big hit he's going to be much more vulnerable, so thats why he just has to get down and just take whats there, regardless.   And also, don't make Allen a RB, except on QB sneaks and a QB draws sometimes.  I still remember that play in first half of year where they called Allen to do a straight run on both 2nd and 3rd and goal and he almost got killed.  

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 hour ago, dakrider said:

 

This is about what I expect to see as well. 200 yards a game is 3200 season, so avg. 220 a game is very doable.   As far as running, I think its great for  QB to be able to take advantage of situations to run.  The key is to just take what is available and not take the hit.  Get down or get out of bounds even if it means not getting the first down.  For Quarterbacks, it seems standing in the pocket and having guys crash into their legs is biggest threats.  Look at the Joe Theismann injury, Alex Smith, Colt McCoy..   Now if Allen tries to get that extra yard and take the big hit he's going to be much more vulnerable, so thats why he just has to get down and just take whats there, regardless.   And also, don't make Allen a RB, except on QB sneaks and a QB draws sometimes.  I still remember that play in first half of year where they called Allen to do a straight run on both 2nd and 3rd and goal and he almost got killed.  

 

 

Dak, even a little bit more food for thought...JA could reasonably do the 220 yards per game, with a very reasonable 7.33 yards per attempt ("YPA"), given the way he throws.  That would mean 30 passes a game and if the kid has no real improvement on his completion percentage (which, however, I think he will), he could put up the yardage and YPA stated above with 30 passes a game and completing 16 of them (53.3%).

 

Again, though, I just plain think that overall all he will be better, but even if he isn't it could still be a productive year for him.

[transplantbillsfan]

Yes.  There's a chance he could.

 

I predict--very early prediction--that he'll pass for 4,000+ yards and rush for 500+ yards and score a combined 35+ TDs

[Matt_In_NH]

pass for 4000 run for 400 should be the goal.   Running for 1000 will be fun but it will not last long

Edited February 26, 2019 by mattynh

[FeelingOnYouboty]

22 hours ago, colin said:

i think 4200+ total yards and 35+ total TDs is in the cards.

 

we need some more weapons on O, and we need a much better line, I think we will have 4 or 5 new starters on O next season.

Passed for 2074 yards, ran for 631 yards in 11 games. If he stays healthy and naturally improves from Year 1 to Year 2 we can see a jump like this. Not to mention you think we'll have more weapons for him as well. I'm super excited. 

[TigerJ]

Not sure.  Allen got a lot of his yards last season scrambling.  In theory, an upgraded offensive line, better weapons and improving ability in Josh Allen to make reads and find the open receiver in the passing game will reduce the number of times that it is necessary for him to scramble.  Unless Daboll wants to add a bunch of designed runs to the offense, I would not be surprised to see Allen's running yards to go down.  I'm not sure why Daboll would want to do that if the offense is working well without putting his QB at risk.