Chiefs fire longtime DC Bob Sutton

[Chris66]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think the same. Pats will have to have a plan for Donald. I also think you have the play at least 50% press coverage. Rams can do it but Talib and Peters will need to play out of their minds. There isn’t a big time WR to cover but I think wade will have a plan for Gronk who is a shell but can still make the big play, and of course Edelman (NRC won’t get away with DPI vs Pats) 

I see Gronk doing a lot of blocking this game

[whatdrought]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Pats only have one good pass rusher - both of those DLs you mention are much better. And the Rams OL has been playing great. I think they will get their run game going too. I don’t love Goff either but he made some huge plays on Sunday. Watch out for their two underrated young TEs - Higbee and Everett. They are great at YAC. 

 

You know better than that Yolo. Individual players mean nothing when it's the Patriots. I don't think the Rams have no chance, but I have less confidence than I would like. I didn't really think the Eagles had much chance last year either, so hopefully I will be surprised. 

 

Also, The Rams Defense scares me in that they're a bunch of emotion based knuckleheads who seem out of control sometimes. Late pushes by Suh and Donald will get called against Brady. NRC mugging every receiver he's lined up against will get called. Marcus Peters forgetting he's playing football and being horribly out of position will get exploited. Aquib Talib running his mouth and being chippy will get him in trouble. 

 

Obviously that's all worst case and I hope I'm wrong. But the fears are based on too much reality. 

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Would allow them to keep the scheme. Sutton was a 3-4 guy who even worked for Rex in New York. 

Bigger issue is the size of the cafeteria with both Reid and Rex. 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Chris66 said:

I dont think the rams have the same offense as kc. I think Goff can get rattled especially if they start going 3 and out.

 

He didn't on Sunday. He just went play at a time didn't panic and made the throws to bring them back. Goff is underrated I think by most. It stems back to that first year. People want to put everything that has happened since on McVay.... and while he is a big factor the truth is Goff is a good Quarterback. 

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, whatdrought said:

 

You know better than that Yolo. Individual players mean nothing when it's the Patriots. I don't think the Rams have no chance, but I have less confidence than I would like. I didn't really think the Eagles had much chance last year either, so hopefully I will be surprised. 

 

Also, The Rams Defense scares me in that they're a bunch of emotion based knuckleheads who seem out of control sometimes. Late pushes by Suh and Donald will get called against Brady. NRC mugging every receiver he's lined up against will get called. Marcus Peters forgetting he's playing football and being horribly out of position will get exploited. Aquib Talib running his mouth and being chippy will get him in trouble. 

 

Obviously that's all worst case and I hope I'm wrong. But the fears are based on too much reality. 

That’s true but the Rams have a really good OL - just looking at matchups on paper. They win both LOS.

[billsfan_34]

27 minutes ago, Chris66 said:

I actually thought the gameplan was pretty good. They played press man and tried to get pressure. They just dodnt have the horses.

Obvious run plays they were undisciplined and linebackers didnt fill gaps. I will say at every level like you said “dont have the horses”.

[K-9]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think the same. Pats will have to have a plan for Donald. I also think you have the play at least 50% press coverage. Rams can do it but Talib and Peters will need to play out of their minds. There isn’t a big time WR to cover but I think wade will have a plan for Gronk who is a shell but can still make the big play, and of course Edelman (NRC won’t get away with DPI vs Pats) 

I’m guessing Wade brackets them on 3rd downs and dares someone else to beat him. I think LA’s LBs have to play lights out in coverage to counter NE’s*** RBs in the passing game. They’re good, especially White. I know one thing, Wade couldn’t be more familiar with the Pats*** schemes. 

[whatdrought]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

That’s true but the Rams have a really good OL - just looking at matchups on paper. They win both LOS.

 

Argument could be made that the chiefs did as well. 

 

I'm just saying, the weak spots that I see in the Rams (inexperience, getting rattled in tough spots, emotionally driven) are the exact weak spots the the Hood loves to put pressure on. 

[bills11]

Well thats not surprising a defense that could get sacks and nothing else...pats were so fortunate to face two defensive coordinatoors in consecutive weeks with trashbin gameplans

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

Argument could be made that the chiefs did as well. 

 

I'm just saying, the weak spots that I see in the Rams (inexperience, getting rattled in tough spots, emotionally driven) are the exact weak spots the the Hood loves to put pressure on. 

I see those weak spots as well but they seem to really be playing well together right now as a team and the talent is certainly there. You never know what Peters or talib will do but if one of them gets into it with Edelman or Gronk I won’t complain 

[whatdrought]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

I see those weak spots as well but they seem to really be playing well together right now as a team and the talent is certainly there. You never know what Peters or talib will do but if one of them gets into it with Edelman or Gronk I won’t complain 

 

I'll drink to that. 

 

I want nothing more than for them to blow them out of the water. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Considering the KC D had a pretty damn impotent game plan, color me so surprised!

 

[Freddie's Dead]

So let me get this straight.  They guy who wouldn't go for the end zone one more time with :11 on the clock and kicks the FG to tie the game, send it to OT, and never sees the ball again and loses to the Cheats, is still HC, and the DC is fired.  Scapegoat much?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Mark80 said:

ESPN listing sexy Rexy as a possible candidate to replace him.  Andy Reid can't be that dumb, can he?

 

I don't think so.  The Chiefs smoked Rexy's Bills D for 413 yds in 2015.  But I suppose you never know.

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, Freddie's Dead said:

So let me get this straight.  They guy who wouldn't go for the end zone one more time with :11 on the clock and kicks the FG to tie the game, send it to OT, and never sees the ball again and loses to the Cheats, is still HC, and the DC is fired.  Scapegoat much?

Yes, the DC of a team who lost 5 games this season even though his offense scored 40 points, 51 points, 28 points, 31 points, and 31 points in those 5 losses was relieved of his duties.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

14 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Bigger issue is the size of the cafeteria with both Reid and Rex. 

They will also have to install a real fireplace chimney so that brother Santa can drop in for Rex's defensive scheme wizardry meetings

 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/10/nfl-rob-ryan-long-hair-pink-jacket-meme-jokes-twitter-reaction-photos

 

[Marv's Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Mark80 said:

ESPN listing sexy Rexy as a possible candidate to replace him.  Andy Reid can't be that dumb, can he?

Watch your back Andy!

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, bills11 said:

Well thats not surprising a defense that could get sacks and nothing else...pats were so fortunate to face two defensive coordinatoors in consecutive weeks with trashbin gameplans

 

The thing is the Pats attack what you do badly. The Chargers had no healthy linebackers so what did the Patriots do? 17 of Brady's 34 completions to running backs taking advantage of defensive backs not used to playing that close to the line of scrimmage and having to read and anticipate those quick short routes. 

 

What is the weakness of the Chiefs D? Soft through the middle. No run stuffer at DT and linebackers who are pathetic in run support. What did the Patriots do? They committed to the run. 48 rushes to 46 passes (and that is after 9 of the 13 OT plays were passes). The Chiefs adjusted at HT to try and make Tom Brady beat them (yes folks you read that right) but they don't have the personnel to be able to stop the run without selling out to stop it. Once they did that suddenly Edelman and Gronk were in the ball game with 1 on 1 matchups. 

 

It is easy to blame Bobby Sutton (who I think over the course of the season has earned his firing and was probably out regardless) and Gus Bradley but these guys are not mugs. They have run good defenses in the past.... they just have personnel that while strong has weak spots and nobody, in the history of the game arguably, adjusts their game plan week to week to attack your weaknesses and nullify your strengths better than the Patriots. They are the masters at it. 

[formerlyofCtown]

1 hour ago, Mark80 said:

ESPN listing sexy Rexy as a possible candidate to replace him.  Andy Reid can't be that dumb, can he?

At least they are already running a 3-4.  He will probably come in and decide to run a 4-3.

[H2o]

Not surprising. That defense got torched all year long. 

[LSHMEAB]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The thing is the Pats attack what you do badly. The Chargers had no healthy linebackers so what did the Patriots do? 17 of Brady's 34 completions to running backs taking advantage of defensive backs not used to playing that close to the line of scrimmage and having to read and anticipate those quick short routes. 

 

What is the weakness of the Chiefs D? Soft through the middle. No run stuffer at DT and linebackers who are pathetic in run support. What did the Patriots do? They committed to the run. 48 rushes to 46 passes (and that is after 9 of the 13 OT plays were passes). The Chiefs adjusted at HT to try and make Tom Brady beat them (yes folks you read that right) but they don't have the personnel to be able to stop the run without selling out to stop it. Once they did that suddenly Edelman and Gronk were in the ball game with 1 on 1 matchups. 

 

It is easy to blame Bobby Sutton (who I think over the course of the season has earned his firing and was probably out regardless) and Gus Bradley but these guys are not mugs. They have run good defenses in the past.... they just have personnel that while strong has weak spots and nobody, in the history of the game arguably, adjusts their game plan week to week to attack your weaknesses and nullify your strengths better than the Patriots. They are the masters at it. 

I agree with all of this, but also believe if defenses stopped respecting a non existent Pats deep game, they'd have more success. Remember when the Bills offense was on fire with Fitz until teams figured out we didn't have receivers to stretch the field? Not comparing Fitz to Brady(EVER), but the same principle applies IMO. Teams are still terrified of getting beat deep by Brady, but it's really an unfounded fear.

 

 

[freddyjj]

7 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I agree with all of this, but also believe if defenses stopped respecting a non existent Pats deep game, they'd have more success. Remember when the Bills offense was on fire with Fitz until teams figured out we didn't have receivers to stretch the field? Not comparing Fitz to Brady(EVER), but the same principle applies IMO. Teams are still terrified of getting beat deep by Brady, but it's really an unfounded fear.

 

 

Agreed and expect Rams to bracket Edelman in coverage on drags.  Possibly play bandit with backer or safety on side he is running pattern to.  Talib and Peters will help too as better DBs than anyone on Chiefs. 

 

Rams don't have good edge rushers but if they can get Donald and Suh to pressure up the middle it will cause problems with timing of patterns. 

Edited January 22, 2019 by freddyjj

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, freddyjj said:

Agreed and expect Rams to bracket Edelman in coverage on drags.  Possibly play bandit with backer or safety on side he is running pattern to.  Talib and Peters will help too as better DBs than anyone on Chiefs. 

 

Rams don't have good edge rushers but if they can get Donald and Suh to pressure up the middle it will cause problems with timing of patterns. 

Can't even recall the number of times the Chiefs had one LB chasing Edelman as he went in motion. Just awful strategy as he's so adept at finding a seam and Brady is the best ever at reading that nonsense and getting the ball out in 2 seconds. Bracket makes all the sense in the world. Bring Barron up if need be and dare them to beat you over the top.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

I agree with all of this, but also believe if defenses stopped respecting a non existent Pats deep game, they'd have more success. Remember when the Bills offense was on fire with Fitz until teams figured out we didn't have receivers to stretch the field? Not comparing Fitz to Brady(EVER), but the same principle applies IMO. Teams are still terrified of getting beat deep by Brady, but it's really an unfounded fear.

 

 

 

I think you have to jam them at the line definitely and not play safe against the one over the top. Brady has that precision accuracy on those intermediate routes though that Fitz didn't have so if Edelman or Hogan are singled up and win off the line you are not getting away with it because inside 25 yards Brady is putting it right on the money. 

[LSHMEAB]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I think you have to jam them at the line definitely and not play safe against the one over the top. Brady has that precision accuracy on those intermediate routes though that Fitz didn't have so if Edelman or Hogan are singled up and win off the line you are not getting away with it because inside 25 yards Brady is putting it right on the money. 

Yep. Fitz is NOT Brady. Press coverage, bracket against Edelman and dare them to beat you DEEP though. You have to respect everything inside 25 yards obviously. Wade's got his hands full, but there has to be a gameplan to stop this offense, even as masterfully as it's run. If it were me, I'd dare Brady to hit that deep shot and deal with it if he does. Easier said than done I suppose.

[YoloinOhio]

21 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Agreed and expect Rams to bracket Edelman in coverage on drags.  Possibly play bandit with backer or safety on side he is running pattern to.  Talib and Peters will help too as better DBs than anyone on Chiefs. 

 

Rams don't have good edge rushers but if they can get Donald and Suh to pressure up the middle it will cause problems with timing of patterns. 

Dante Fowler has gotten loose a bit 

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

The bottom line is the Chiefs had a SB caliber offense and a non Sb caliber defense. They played with fire all year and don’t deserve to be in the SB. The only reason it went to OT is because the Pats couldn’t stop them either. Rams are much more balanced.

 

Their offense could have adjusted better in first half and then they would not have been in such a hole.

 

There defense got two interceptions and forced punts and turnover on downs so was not THAT bad.  It appears they were trying to use a prevent defense at end which usually prevents wins unless you are very far ahead.

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, Mark80 said:

ESPN listing sexy Rexy as a possible candidate to replace him.  Andy Reid can't be that dumb, can he?

Rex's name will be kicked around for a while still, but he's done.

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, Mark80 said:

ESPN listing sexy Rexy as a possible candidate to replace him.  Andy Reid can't be that dumb, can he?

 

...if "winning the off season" is a top priority, by all means Andy needs to pull the trigger..................

Edited January 22, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[BobbyC81]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Who has approached him about other DC openings in recent seasons?? Hopefully he still makes it back to the AFC East someday so we can be appropriately entertained at his expense again. 

 

Probably the same teams that offered Gregg Williams the head coaching job.

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, One Buffalo said:

And Schefter is suggesting Rex could be in the mix?  I would really hate to see Rex get to the Super Bowl... but I suppose it would make for sweet victory if we were to face him in the playoffs and win sometime in the next few years... 

 

 

Schefter and Rex work together at ESPN. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Schefter put that out there as a favor to Rex, knowing he wants back into coaching. 

[Punching Bag]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Schefter and Rex work together at ESPN. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Schefter put that out there as a favor to Rex, knowing he wants back into coaching. 

 

Or he wants to get Rex out of ESPN.

[bills11]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The thing is the Pats attack what you do badly. The Chargers had no healthy linebackers so what did the Patriots do? 17 of Brady's 34 completions to running backs taking advantage of defensive backs not used to playing that close to the line of scrimmage and having to read and anticipate those quick short routes. 

 

What is the weakness of the Chiefs D? Soft through the middle. No run stuffer at DT and linebackers who are pathetic in run support. What did the Patriots do? They committed to the run. 48 rushes to 46 passes (and that is after 9 of the 13 OT plays were passes). The Chiefs adjusted at HT to try and make Tom Brady beat them (yes folks you read that right) but they don't have the personnel to be able to stop the run without selling out to stop it. Once they did that suddenly Edelman and Gronk were in the ball game with 1 on 1 matchups. 

 

It is easy to blame Bobby Sutton (who I think over the course of the season has earned his firing and was probably out regardless) and Gus Bradley but these guys are not mugs. They have run good defenses in the past.... they just have personnel that while strong has weak spots and nobody, in the history of the game arguably, adjusts their game plan week to week to attack your weaknesses and nullify your strengths better than the Patriots. They are the masters at it. 

Yeah i understand that but there has been coordinators who have put together cohesive gameplans vs the patriots..the ravens have done it time and time again..so has defenses run by wade the pats have weaknesses you can attack as well..if you sit back in zone like the chargers did you have no shot so gus bradley is not absolved of any blame there..Bob sutton took way too long to adjust to the patriots run heavy approach where the pats went on marathon drives..which resulted in touchdowns anyways. He should not have waited till after halftime to change his approach.

Edited January 22, 2019 by bills11

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Or he wants to get Rex out of ESPN.

 

 

 

...shift him to C-SPAN with the other 435 "scholars"...........

[vincec]

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Schefter and Rex work together at ESPN. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Schefter put that out there as a favor to Rex, knowing he wants back into coaching. 

I can't imagine in a million years that Rex wants to start over as a defensive coordinator and try to work his way back up to HC.

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, bills11 said:

Yeah i understand that but there has been coordinators who have put together cohesive gameplans vs the patriots..the ravens have done it time and time again..so has defenses run by wade the pats have weaknesses you can attack as well..if you sit back in zone like the chargers did you have no shot so gus bradley is not absolved of any blame there..Bob sutton took way too long to adjust to the patriots run heavy approach where the pats went on marathon drives..which resulted in touchdowns anyways. He should not have waited till after halftime to change his approach.

 

Bradley didn't have any linebackers. His zone defense with 6 DBs was borne out of necessity. Bobby Sutton doesn't have people to stop the run but when he adjusted and sold out to do it they were beaten by WRs in 1 on 1.

 

You know what the Ravens D that stopped New England a few times and the Denver D Wade beat them with had? Talent at every level and almost no weaknesses. That is what it takes. We have seen Bills coaches come up with gameplans that have frustrated New England for half a game enough times..... but they look at the pictures on the sideline find a weak spot and attack it relentlessly. They aren't worried about how their offense looks either. If New England have to run the same play 4 times in a row they will. There are  0 style points. It is all about winning. 

[bills11]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Bradley didn't have any linebackers. His zone defense with 6 DBs was borne out of necessity. Bobby Sutton doesn't have people to stop the run but when he adjusted and sold out to do it they were beaten by WRs in 1 on 1.

 

You know what the Ravens D that stopped New England a few times and the Denver D Wade beat them with had? Talent at every level and almost no weaknesses. That is what it takes. We have seen Bills coaches come up with gameplans that have frustrated New England for half a game enough times..... but they look at the pictures on the sideline find a weak spot and attack it relentlessly. They aren't worried about how their offense looks either. If New England have to run the same play 4 times in a row they will. There are  0 style points. It is all about winning. 

There are still different ways to scheme around your weaknesses...that same broncos defence wade coached up got torched the year before when del rio was calling plays. the chargers have tons of talent on defence and especially on the d line a more creative mind could have come up with pressure packages and stunts that would disrupt the patriots timing based throws..the pats did exactly that to the chiefs they doubled hill and had their d line stunt and loop and create favorable matchups against the chiefs oline..the pats o line isn't the best in the entire league they can be pressured the bottom line is theres enough film out there that has shown what it takes to disrupt the pats offence...sitting back in zone will never beat them..if bradys able to just set up take his drop and have nothing around his feet all day hes gonna carve up your defence. weve seen that same scenario play out for our very own bills..week 1 and 2 got absolutely demolished by the ravens and chargers where we sat back in our cover 3 shell and just played passively until mcdermott took over the play calling briefly and we started using much more blitz packages and pressure oriented schematics the rest of the year.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

 

 

 

...has to be a culmination of the whole season.....surprisingly shut down the Colts.....W was there if not for encroachment....tough to shut Brady down (dammit)....mantra all season long was "KC Has no defense"....

[BakersBills]

he sat back on 3rd down and let brady pickem apart

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, bills11 said:

There are still different ways to scheme around your weaknesses...that same broncos defence wade coached up got torched the year before when del rio was calling plays. the chargers have tons of talent on defence and especially on the d line a more creative mind could have come up with pressure packages and stunts that would disrupt the patriots timing based throws..the pats did exactly that to the chiefs they doubled hill and had their d line stunt and loop and create favorable matchups against the chiefs oline..the pats o line isn't the best in the entire league they can be pressured the bottom line is theres enough film out there that has shown what it takes to disrupt the pats offence...sitting back in zone will never beat them..if bradys able to just set up take his drop and have nothing around his feet all day hes gonna carve up your defence. weve seen that same scenario play out for our very own bills..week 1 and 2 got absolutely demolished by the ravens and chargers where we sat back in our cover 3 shell and just played passively until mcdermott took over the play calling briefly and we started using much more blitz packages and pressure oriented schematics the rest of the year.

 

You can only create with what you have. The Chargers talent on the D line couldn't do anything because Brady wasn't holding the ball he was dumping it off straight away to his running backs. They were attacking the linebacker spots where what the Chargers had was their second choice defensive backs. 17 of 34 to running backs. The ball was out so fast. When you are trying to shut down the Pats you better not have a weakness because if you do they will find it and no amount of clever scheming will help you.