How long to close the competitive gap?

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

If not next year, not happening with this regime. 

 

Second year with a hand chosen qb ridiculous cap space AND a high pick? I’m not saying the expectation is the Super Bowl but it shouldn’t end up seeming out of the realm of possibilities. You should be budgeting for playoff tickets at this crossroads 

 

 

Yeah but we've always known it was inevitable that those who have shouted down any questioning of McBeane with "It was ALWAYS ABOUT 2019......when they have $90M in cap space!" will be fumbling for new excuses now that the finish line for those excuses is in sight.

 

I expect they will be going hard at it hard this offseason...........when you look at their actual track record.......10-16 record since that 5-2 start in 2017 with blowouts galore and 4 utterly punchless/uncompetitive games against New England........that stuff has to end next season.

 

[teef]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

The excuses are already starting for 2019.

 

Just read the posts in this thread. 

can you show me any excuses made in this thread?

 

the question was how long it was going to take to close the competitive gap, and posters gave their answers.  are you just looking to be an angry scotty again?

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It shouldn't take 4 years to build a Super Bowl contender.

 

Its 2019. Not 1996. 

 

Their year 1 approach - not getting Beane in until after the draft, avoiding taking a QB when two very good prospects fell to them at 10, selling assets for future picks and then suddenly throwing picks at Kelvin Benjamin when they playoffs were within sight was a strange one (and yet it worked in ending the drought). But really the rebuild only started in year 2. So while next year is year 3 of the regime it is year 2 of the rebuild. 

[SinceThe70s]

18 minutes ago, teef said:

they really don't need to make the playoffs next year.  it will be disappointing if the bills win 7, but i'm willing to be the pegulas would be more than happy to give this staff another year.  

 

Love your posts and attitude Teef, but at some point you have to take off the training wheels and set the expectation to success and not just be satisfied with progress (or the perception of progress).  I agree that they don't necessarily need to make the playoffs next year but 7 wins would be more then just disappointing to me.

 

9 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

If not next year, not happening with this regime. 

 

Second year with a hand chosen qb ridiculous cap space AND a high pick? I’m not saying the expectation is the Super Bowl but it shouldn’t end up seeming out of the realm of possibilities. You should be budgeting for playoff tickets at this crossroads 

 

My expectation is that at worst I won't be checking in on the ESPN playoff machine until there are 2 maybe 3 games left in the season. I could live with a season that we should have made the playoffs and didn't but if it's another where we could have made the playoffs and didn't it may be time to move on to a new regime.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, teef said:

can you show me any excuses made in this thread?

 

the question was how long it was going to take to close the competitive gap, and posters gave their answers.  are you just looking to be an angry scotty again?

 

Closing the gap means improvement. Progress is closing the gap. I’ll wait and watch and decide when I see the games.. NOW is not the time to tell how I will feel next season. 

[Augie]

 

If it made me miserable, I’d find something else. 

[teef]

1 minute ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Love your posts and attitude Teef, but at some point you have to take off the training wheels and set the expectation to success and not just be satisfied with progress (or the perception of progress).  I agree that they don't necessarily need to make the playoffs next year but 7 wins would be more then just disappointing to me.

 

 

when i need they don't need to make the playoffs, i mean if they don't, i don't think the pegulas will fire everyone.  as a fan i think they need to and will be disappointed if the don't.

[NoSaint]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah but we've always known it was inevitable that those who have shouted down any questioning of McBeane with "It was ALWAYS ABOUT 2019......when they have $90M in cap space!" will be fumbling for new excuses now that the finish line for those excuses is in sight.

 

I expect they will be going hard at it hard this offseason...........when you look at their actual track record.......10-16 record since that 5-2 start in 2017 with blowouts galore and 4 utterly punchless/uncompetitive games against New England........that stuff has to end next season.

 

 

I don’t know why but it still surprises me that as they watch the eagles, rams, chiefs in the playoffs that some fans still think it’s a 5 year rebuild process in today’s nfl. 

 

The one I quoted was totally ruling out year 3 under McD and only maybe in year 4? If you believe that you need to be calling for heads.

[teef]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Angry Scotty?

 

I think it's funny. 

 

"It's REALLY ONLY year 2 for Beane though."

that's it?  that's not an excuse, it's a reality.  even if it is year two from beane, it's year 3 under this coaching staff, and fans expect results as they should.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, teef said:

really scott?  after 17 years of not making the playoffs, no shake up was needed?  and while you're at it, why don't you just act like getting a good coach and franchise qb is no biggie!

 

What in the actual f*ck are you talking about?

 

Donahoe tore it down.........Jauron and Levy tore it down hard AGAIN..........Buddy and Chan specifically tried to do a 180 from what Jauron did a miserable job of doing.........so yet another re-build.............you are oblivious if you think we haven't seen numerous tear downs and their result in the past 17 years.

 

[teef]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Closing the gap means improvement. Progress is closing the gap. I’ll wait and watch and decide when I see the games.. NOW is not the time to tell how I will feel next season. 

agreed.  if this team shows no improvement into next year, we're all pretty screwed.  i do think though that we can see improvement without the playoffs.  people may not like to hear that, but it could work out that way.

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

What in the actual f*ck are you talking about?

 

Donahoe tore it down.........Jauron and Levy tore it down hard AGAIN..........Buddy and Chan specifically tried to do a 180 from what Jauron did a miserable job of doing.........so yet another re-build.............you are oblivious if you think we haven't seen numerous tear downs and their result in the past 17 years.

 

don't you have an awful hot take to push on someone?

[Tcali]

its gonna be at least 20 yrs. i recommend a new hobby for people around here. we havent had a serious team here since 1999

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

I don’t know why but it still surprises me that as they watch the eagles, rams, chiefs in the playoffs that some fans still think it’s a 5 year rebuild process in today’s nfl. 

 

The one I quoted was totally ruling out year 3 under McD and only maybe in year 4? If you believe that you need to be calling for heads.

 

 

Unfortunately the fanbase is just so accustomed to losing they are afraid to expect results.

 

They can't even remember that the things been torn down numerous times in the past 17 years.............nope........no this is the first time it's been torn down!

[teef]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Unfortunately the fanbase is just so accustomed to losing they are afraid to expect results.

 

They can't even remember that the things been torn down numerous times in the past 17 years.............nope........no this is the first time it's been torn down!

who said this?

[LSHMEAB]

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

What in the actual f*ck are you talking about?

 

Donahoe tore it down.........Jauron and Levy tore it down hard AGAIN..........Buddy and Chan specifically tried to do a 180 from what Jauron did a miserable job of doing.........so yet another re-build.............you are oblivious if you think we haven't seen numerous tear downs and their result in the past 17 years.

 

Getting rid of talent because they didn't fit the system/didn't want to be here/got outbid is NOT NEW for the Bills franchise. It's been done time and time and time and time again. These guys have made a point of emphasizing the need to get rid of these players, but I've seen this play before.

 

They have THE Coach. They have THE Quarterback. Why should fans expect anything less than the playoffs in 2019?

 

I'm getting the sense that people are already preparing for mediocrity next season, yet are somehow fine with it. I want more from this team. I'm sick of tired of watching other teams spring up out of nowhere and go on playoff runs while the Bills talk about "next year." It's always next year. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[teef]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Anything short of having a shot to make the playoffs entering Week 17 would be a disappointment.(Assuming Allen remains healthy) 

agreed.  even at this point it's tough to use injuries as an excuse.  it has to happen at some point.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

It all depends on if we find out if Allen is any good

 

I think we have found out he can be pretty good...its more about consistency.  There are not many QBs in the NF that could have put the team on his back like Allen did in the 2nd half of the last Miami game.  Dude literally took over the game

[iinii]

While we may be closing in on the playoffs, getting to the 1 or 2 and the week off luxury that affords may not be as close as desired. There is a big difference in the the pack leaders and everyone else as evidenced by this weekend’s slate. 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, teef said:

agreed.  if this team shows no improvement into next year, we're all pretty screwed.  i do think though that we can see improvement without the playoffs.  people may not like to hear that, but it could work out that way.

don't you have an awful hot take to push on someone?

 

Man.........I don't know if I can top your "after 17 years it was time to tear it down for the first time ever" take...........that was a hawwwwwt f*cking take,  champ!

 

 

[teef]

for clarification here, it's obvious that some people are reading into the fact that some don't feel competitive gap will be closed enough next year as being ok.  take a breath and realize that was never said.  we were set up for failure with the promise of results, and year 3 is when fans rightfully come looking.  

[Jerome007]

Being a top contender might take more years, but turning a 6-10 to a 10-6 season can be as soon as NEXT YEAR. Good additions to the OLine and receiver corp, a few lucky bounces, no major injury bug, better play calling, more experience for Allen& Daboll, etc. All possible, and realistic too.

 

 

This weekend we've also seen GREAT coaching. Sad to say, but Billichick rules them all. Brady has become a super manager QB. He does so little but audibles, reads well, makes few mistakes, is very alert, but overall lots of little passes, sweeps, checkdowns, he hasn't to be Mr Hero. Bill is a damn genius in all phases. The Cheats have next to no weaknesses but not much in superstars defensive & offensive players like in the other playoff teams, yet they keep winning. Contrary to some on here, I'm not in the fire everyone crowd ha ha. And realize McD was only a 2nd year guy, but he'll need to get better for sure as well, not just the players.

[PlayoffsPlease]

15 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Closing the gap means improvement. Progress is closing the gap. I’ll wait and watch and decide when I see the games.. NOW is not the time to tell how I will feel next season. 

Closing the Gap means joining the small crowd of superior teams. Bouncing around between 6-10 and 10-6 without ever winning playoff games makes you the Bengals. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

58 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I disagree. I think next year we can be legit competitors. Allen was 5-5 as a starter , 5-6 counting Hou but that could have easily been a W.

 

I just think we have legit young future pro bowlers , if Allen keeps progressing ,with that defense that should be even better , no reason we can't be competing next year

We have way too many holes to fill and we don't have a defense like the Bears to carry our offense. If we made a playoff push in 2020 I would still be very impressed. 

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

People want to talk about expectations.  Let the league/Allen’s contemporaries set the bar on what those expectations will be.

 

The previous FIVE 1st Round QBs have ALL in their SECOND SEASONS guided their teams to DIVISION TITLES.

 

Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson.

 

Thats the realistic bar for the BUFFALO BILLS if they Are serious.  Maybe they really aren’t serious.  Or maybe they will set it lower for fear of being forced to start over again.

 

But that is the bar set.

[teef]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Man.........I don't know if I can top your "after 17 years it was time to tear it down for the first time ever" take...........that was a hawwwwwt f*cking take,  champ!

 

 

this is the stupid ***** you do.  can you show me once where i stated "tear it down for the first time ever".    you love to create made up scenarios to try to win an argument that doesn't exist.  you're honestly the board's annoying girlfriend.  go ahead....show me where i made any comment where i said it was time to tear it down for the first time ever.  i'm curious how you try to twist this.  as of now, you're busy being you.

[Augie]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Man.........I don't know if I can top your "after 17 years it was time to tear it down for the first time ever" take...........that was a hawwwwwt f*cking take,  champ!

 

 

 

I’m am NOT a blind supporter. They have NOT done everything perfectly. Nor have I, and possibly you. Hindsight is great, and every team’s fan base can use it. But the whole 17 year thing is tired and lazy. We have new owners and a new FO. I can understand frustration, but if the 17 year thing is something anybody plans to call upon, that ended last year. Get a new schtick. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

2 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

People want to talk about expectations.  Let the league/Allen’s contemporaries set the bar on what those expectations will be.

 

The previous FIVE 1st Round QBs have ALL in their SECOND SEASONS guided their teams to DIVISION TITLES.

 

Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson.

 

Thats the realistic bar for the BUFFALO BILLS if they Are serious.  Maybe they really aren’t serious.  Or maybe they will set it lower for fear of being forced to start over again.

 

But that is the bar set.

Many people on this board can't grasp the obvious point you are making .  They seem to think somehow that teams go 6-10, then 7-9, the 8-8, then 9-7, then 10-6 like it is some sort of corporate "continual improvement" process. 

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Closing the Gap means joining the small crowd of superior teams. Bouncing around between 6-10 and 10-6 without ever winning playoff games makes you the Bengals. 

 

No, actually “closing the gap” means “closing the gap”.  If you want to change that to “perennial Super Bowl contenders”, then we have a new story. 

 

That’s what the thread was about. it’sin the title. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Augie

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

No, actually “closing the gap” means “closing the gap”.  If you want to change that to “perennial Super Bowl contenders”, then we have a new story. 

Oh, so you are discussing closing the gap, as not actually finishing the process of closing the gap? or are you just discussing closing the gap to becoming a perennial slighly better loser? you make no sense whatsoever. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

It all depends on if we find out if Allen is any good

Exactly,  the size of the gap will solely depend on Josh's ability. And Bill & Tom's retirement party wouldn't hurt too.

[Augie]

Just now, PlayoffsPlease said:

Oh, so you are discussing closing the gap, as not actually finishing the process of closing the gap? or are you just discussing closing the gap to becoming a perennial slighly better loser? you make no sense whatsoever. 

 

I’m only responding to the thread title. Others have taken it someplace else. 

[teef]

Just now, Augie said:

 

I’m only responding to the thread title. Others have taken it someplace else. 

It’s shocking how others have taken this some place else. 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Oh, so you are discussing closing the gap, as not actually finishing the process of closing the gap? or are you just discussing closing the gap to becoming a perennial slighly better loser? you make no sense whatsoever. 

 

So you have gone from closing the gap (in the title) to wanting a SB trophy. I think we jumped ahead a bit! 

1 minute ago, teef said:

It’s shocking how others have taken this some place else. 

 

Angry little elf’s! 

 

 

As long as we appear to be going forward and making progress, I’m good with that. I don’t want to sell out in FA with big splashy signings for instant wins that crush us down the line. I don’t need immediate satisfaction. I want a sustainable winning program. I’m optimistic right now. I could be very wrong, but I won’t let it make me miserable. 

[Tcali]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Like I said.

 

It doesn't take 4 years to build a Super Bowl contender. You can turn a team around in ONE YEAR.

 

So many Bills fans don't think this is possible due to the past 20 years of ***** spewed from numerous GMs/HCs.

so true. the bills are in eternal rebuildland. eternal mediocrity. new generations of optimists who turn bitter and cynical over time.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

1 hour ago, HardyBoy said:

 

No, they accelerated the dead cap, there is a difference. It's like if you have credit card debt and continue paying the minimum due and keep living a somewhat decent lifestyle vs suffering for two years and paying it all off and living a real nice lifestyle long term.

 

Thats a terrible analogy. It’s more like giving away all the stuff you bought with the credit card, paying it off, then having to get back to the credit limit by replacing all the stuff you gave away. 

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What big splashy signings would "crush us down the line"?

 

Mario Williams type signings do not make for sustained winning. We were NOT one player away. Poyer and Hyde I liked much more. I’m not for selling out for instant gratification unless it makes long term sense. 

 

Look, we have a couple different camps here. I prefer to be hopeful and realize every move won’t be perfect. I want to win and win now. I realize that’s not easy to do. I know others are frustrated and want immediate success. Everybody is frustrated, but anyone who wants “playoffs or bust” type of regime changes is just asking for more frustration. New FO, new coaches, new schemes, different fit of players needed, etc. Starting over every 2-3 years is how we got where we are. I give these guys a chance until I’m POSITIVE they can’t do it. You can feel any way you like. 

 

Nobody is going to change anyone else’s opinion here, so I’ll back off. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Augie

[dabills21]

1 minute ago, Chemical said:

 

Thats a terrible analogy. It’s more like giving away all the stuff you bought with the credit card, paying it off, then having to get back to the credit limit by replacing all the stuff you gave away. 

You mean the stuff that they didn't buy, but inherited? 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

13 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What big splashy signings would "crush us down the line"?

I’m guessing untenable long term cap squeezes, a la Doug Whaley management style? 

[dabills21]

49 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

What in the actual f*ck are you talking about?

 

Donahoe tore it down.........Jauron and Levy tore it down hard AGAIN..........Buddy and Chan specifically tried to do a 180 from what Jauron did a miserable job of doing.........so yet another re-build.............you are oblivious if you think we haven't seen numerous tear downs and their result in the past 17 years.

 

You must have missed teef and Scott discussing this, or it would make sense

[H2o]

I think with a good offseason we will be back in the playoffs next year and a legit contender in the AFC by 2020.