The Trump Shutdown

[plenzmd1]

13 hours ago, 3rdnlng said:

Trump won the election because of his call for building a wall. He wants the wall because it is an effective way to nearly eliminate illegal crossings. People on the left who have always been for a wall are now fighting it because they view wall funding as a win for Trump. I view it as a win for America. Trump has offered an immigration fix and the left has fought it because they don't want to lose the issue.

 

You must have some very fat fingers.

ha..on a metro train when typing that! Yes, very fat on the phone!

 

I have no issue with a wall, but what I really want is immigration reform. And you are right,, the left views it as a political win for Trump, and don't want to give him the win. On the same token, Trump ONLY  views it as a political win as well..he knows $5b ain't gonna build a wall or have any appreciable effect on curbing illegal immigration, he just wants to say to his base " I got funding for a wall"..again only for political reasons. 

 

Both sides are playing this issue right now for purely political reasons..a pox on both of them!

13 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The wall is about human trafficking (and smuggling in general) much more than it's about immigration reform. That's an argument the media won't let people make, because it requires understanding that people in DC against the wall have been profiting from keeping the border porous (profiting in terms of campaign support/donations, and protection from the establishment media). 

 

A wall on the southern border would cut trafficking lanes down immensely. Why is the military on the border now? It's not to deter the caravan, it's to provide logistical support to ICE/BP/DHS as they work to shut down trafficking routes. But again, that won't be reported... yet if you talk to the people stationed there and look at the actual work being done, you'd find it to be the truth.

as @snafu stated, if this is true, and I have no reason to believe it is not, Trump should make this part of his rhetoric. To date, I do not believe that is a central theme for his desire to get a wall funded and built, it is to stop people from coming into the US,breeding and making the US dirtier(i know the last is Carlson,but jeez,words matter)

[IDBillzFan]

18 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

for you and @Buffalo_Gal , why is it THIS issue to you is worth the shutdown?

 

Because it was his primary campaign issue. That's it. Nothing more or less. He traveled the country and told everyone he was going keep people from waltzing across an imaginary border to keep our country safer. It wasn't some hokey bumper sticker 'hope and change' or 'healing the planet' or 'receding oceans.'

 

Build a wall. Keep our criminals. Make the country safer. And again, as we saw under Obama, shutting down the government is no big deal provided Trump doesn't turn into a douche and intentionally make it difficult for a few people to get them to whine. 

[Deranged Rhino]

5 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

as @snafu stated, if this is true, and I have no reason to believe it is not, Trump should make this part of his rhetoric. To date, I do not believe that is a central theme for his desire to get a wall funded and built, it is to stop people from coming into the US,breeding and making the US dirtier(i know the last is Carlson,but jeez,words matter)

 

He has made it front and center in his rhetoric, it's just never the soundbyte the MSM uses when they cover it. This is from just this morning:

 

The larger point is the trafficking can't be front and center because the establishment media and political pundits don't want it to be at the forefront (since many of them profit in some ways from keeping those trafficking lanes open).

[Buffalo_Gal]

20 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

for you and @Buffalo_Gal , why is it THIS issue to you is worth the shutdown? Why not deficit reduction? Why not entitlement reform? Why not better outcomes for our veterans?

 

 

 

What is it specifically that makes the wall, not immigration reform..so important. Remember, Trump is only threatening the Trump shutdown over funding for a wall..not meaningful immigration reform 

1

I am sorry, @plenzmd1 I just noticed the tag. I didn't mean to ignore you.

Trump campaigned on building a wall, so it must be worth a shutdown to him (it is to me). 

If Trump negotiates for a real deficit reduction, I'd pass out.  He's a spender, not a saver as far I can determine (I'd love to be wrong about that,  but I do not think I am). Ditto entitlement reform (although didn't he try and add a work requirement for welfare that Congress ignored?)

I think better outcomes for our Veterans is a very worthy cause.  I will admit I am responding to that as someone who is not a Veteran and does not deal with the VA in any capacity. Neither do my uncle or brother who are veterans, they use private insurance and stay far away from VA hospitals... I will tell you that my cousin who became ill via agent orange lived about 30 years longer than expected, due in part to the services at his local VA hospital. And that is about all I "know" about Veteran outcomes.  If you have specific ideas, I would love to hear them. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I am sorry, @plenzmd1 I just noticed the tag. I didn't mean to ignore you.

Trump campaigned on building a wall, so it must be worth a shutdown to him (it is to me). 

If Trump negotiates for a real deficit reduction, I'd pass out.  He's a spender, not a saver as far I can determine (I'd love to be wrong about that,  but I do not think I am). Ditto entitlement reform (although didn't he try and add a work requirement for welfare that Congress ignored?)

I think better outcomes for our Veterans is a very worthy cause.  I will admit I am responding to that as someone who is not a Veteran and does not deal with the VA in any capacity. Neither do my uncle or brother who are veterans, they use private insurance and stay far away from VA hospitals... I will tell you that my cousin who became ill via agent orange lived about 30 years longer than expected, due in part to the services at his local VA hospital. And that is about all I "know" about Veteran outcomes.  If you have specific ideas, I would love to hear them. 

He campaigned on building a wall PAID FOR BY MEXICO.

 

Shutting down the Gov't because we won't pay for it? Huh?

 

Just thought I would add that in case people forgot.

[Buffalo_Gal]

13 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

He campaigned on building a wall PAID FOR BY MEXICO.

 

Shutting down the Gov't because we won't pay for it? Huh?

 

Just thought I would add that in case people forgot.

Read about 3-4 pages back, please.  I already discussed that. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Read about 3-4 pages back, please.  I already discussed that. 

No thanks.  Probably too convulted.

 

What really needs to be discussed? People have been duped again.  He said Mexico will pay for the wall.  I guess they are not paying.  

 

No wall.

 

The goal posts have been moved.  Don't fall for the bait and switch. 

 

/end thread.

[DC Tom]

27 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

He campaigned on building a wall PAID FOR BY MEXICO.

 

Shutting down the Gov't because we won't pay for it? Huh?

 

Just thought I would add that in case people forgot.

 

Of course, the problem there isn't that he's not fulfilling a campaign statement.  It's that he made a statement that couldn't possibly be fulfilled.  

 

If people believed him, it's not because he was misleading them.  It's because they were stupid.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Dealing with Trump is like having high-level negotiations with a third grader.  Like two year old having a temper tantrum.

 

He's stomping his feet because in about a month he won't have his lemmings in Congress.

 

Just ignore him.  What will be will be... Now get back in there Sparky and head Mexico City and close this deal and get Mexico to pay like you said they would.

 

Don't fall for it.  Sure of Mexico pays, I'd like a wall.  If not... Meh.  Who cares.

 

Continuing to argue leads to this:

 

 

Today's pout of the week: "I will hold my breath and shutdown the Gov't.  Gov't shutdowns are good."

 

Gee Donald, now go to Your room!  Just wait till Robert Mueller comes home.  Your Daddy won't be pleased!

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

 

Of course, the problem there isn't that he's not fulfilling a campaign statement.  It's that he made a statement that couldn't possibly be fulfilled.  

 

If people believed him, it's not because he was misleading them.  It's because they were stupid.

Of course!  Who the hell believed him.

 

Now... Move along, nothing to see.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just to balance things out.  I think this meme is funny:  ?

 

 

Who's saying I don't have a sense of humor with regard to my fellow Libby Lous.

 

I just want Sparky to get back in there and get the Mexicans to pay like he said they would.  Who doesn't like spending other people's money first. 

 

I guess turnaround is fair play.  Build that boondoggle! What Liberal doesn't like a good billions of $$$$ boondoggle... ?

 

[keepthefaith]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

He campaigned on building a wall PAID FOR BY MEXICO.

 

Shutting down the Gov't because we won't pay for it? Huh?

 

Just thought I would add that in case people forgot.

 

Agree he said that and a shutdown should not be about a wall.  It should be about doing something fiscally sound rather than voting to raise the debt ceiling again and again and never addressing why we have to continually do that at a gigantic clip.  It should be about using the people's money in a responsible way.  Funding better border security would be responsible, but other expenditures have to be moved down in priority.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

Of course, the problem there isn't that he's not fulfilling a campaign statement.  It's that he made a statement that couldn't possibly be fulfilled.  

 

If people believed him, it's not because he was misleading them.  It's because they were stupid.

 

How does this hurt him?

 

people are going to leave Trump and vote for Hillary in 2020 because the wall wasn’t built?

 

 

[Cinga]

I have an idea.... I hear illegal immigration cost taxpayers from 130 to 160 billion a year in welfare etc... and don't tell me they contribute by paying taxes, last I checked it is still illegal to hire them!

Regardless.... just quit paying anything to anyone here illegally... problem solved... 

 

I know, that might be considered cruel by our more liberal brethren... But I bet you find a measly 20 billion now huh? 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Cinga said:

I have an idea.... I hear illegal immigration cost taxpayers from 130 to 160 billion a year in welfare etc... and don't tell me they contribute by paying taxes, last I checked it is still illegal to hire them!

Regardless.... just quit paying anything to anyone here illegally... problem solved... 

 

I know, that might be considered cruel by our more liberal brethren... But I bet you find a measly 20 billion now huh? 

[keepthefaith]

2 hours ago, Cinga said:

I have an idea.... I hear illegal immigration cost taxpayers from 130 to 160 billion a year in welfare etc... and don't tell me they contribute by paying taxes, last I checked it is still illegal to hire them!

Regardless.... just quit paying anything to anyone here illegally... problem solved... 

 

I know, that might be considered cruel by our more liberal brethren... But I bet you find a measly 20 billion now huh? 

 

I like it.  A 100% income tax on wages earned by illegal immigrants.

Edited December 17, 2018 by keepthefaith

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 hour ago, Boyst62 said:

I have not seen one of those since I was a kid!

[Swill Merchant]

What's the argument against the wall, again?

[DC Tom]

24 minutes ago, Swill Merchant said:

What's the argument against the wall, again?

 

It's an idiotic idea that won't work, and is far more expensive than is being claimed.

[Doc Brown]

8 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Of course, the problem there isn't that he's not fulfilling a campaign statement.  It's that he made a statement that couldn't possibly be fulfilled.  

 

If people believed him, it's not because he was misleading them.  It's because they were stupid.

You're telling me that we were tricked into believing a guy would get the funding to construct approximately a 22 billion dollar wall all the way along the Southern border that goes through private land American Indian land (hello legal battles) and mountains with an annual estimated maintenance fee of 750 million dollars?  I don't buy it.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Doc Brown

[3rdnlng]

57 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

You're telling me that we were tricked into believing a guy would get the funding to construct approximately a 22 billion dollar wall all the way along the Southern border that goes through private land American Indian land (hello legal battles) and mountains with an annual estimated maintenance fee of 750 million dollars?  I don't buy it.

You're better than that *****.

[Swill Merchant]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

It's an idiotic idea that won't work, and is far more expensive than is being claimed.

That's a rather conclusory argument.

[/dev/null]

8 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

 

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I have not seen one of those since I was a kid!

 

banana flavored

[boyst]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

You're telling me that we were tricked into believing a guy would get the funding to construct approximately a 22 billion dollar wall all the way along the Southern border that goes through private land American Indian land (hello legal battles) and mountains with an annual estimated maintenance fee of 750 million dollars?  I don't buy it.

And it's the perfect leverage wedge issue that in 2020 will still be an issue that can fuel his base to vote for him because erhhe Democrats just won't work with him and he won't be Obama and just run by EO.  Damn, Schumer and Nancy are gonna keep America from being great!!!!!!

 

It's a smart political play: us vs them.  Obama did it better, though.

[DC Tom]

9 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

You're telling me that we were tricked into believing a guy would get the funding to construct approximately a 22 billion dollar wall all the way along the Southern border that goes through private land American Indian land (hello legal battles) and mountains with an annual estimated maintenance fee of 750 million dollars? I don't buy it.

 

No, I'm not saying that at all.  Believing a guy would get the funding to construct approximately a 22 billion dollar wall all the way along the Southern border that goes through private land American Indian land (hello legal battles) and mountains with an annual estimated maintenance fee of 750 million dollars isn't "being tricked."  It's being stupid.

[B-Man]

NOT REALLY SHOCKING: 

 

Shock Report: 86% Of Government Spending Is Now On Autopilot.

The new report from the Government Accountability Office — a federal auditing agency — shows that of the $3.7 trillion the federal government spent in 2015, $3.2 trillion of it didn’t require authorization by Congress that year. In other words, Congress only specifically approved 14% of what the federal government spent that year.

 

Over the years, Congress has passed laws that allow federal spending without any annual congressional approval. The biggest chunk is for so-called “entitlement programs” like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and welfare. Congress provided these programs with “permanent appropriations.” Spending levels are set automatically, based on eligibility rules and benefit amounts.

 

Over the years, this kind of autopilot spending authority exploded from $1.7 trillion in 1994 to $3.2 trillion by 2015. That’s an 87% increase, after adjusting for inflation.

 

 

The US population has increased by 24% since 1994, so “autopilot spending” per capita — again, mostly entitlements — has increased by nearly 66%.

 

 

 

 

.

[Tiberius]

30 minutes ago, B-Man said:

NOT REALLY SHOCKING: 

 

Shock Report: 86% Of Government Spending Is Now On Autopilot.

The new report from the Government Accountability Office — a federal auditing agency — shows that of the $3.7 trillion the federal government spent in 2015, $3.2 trillion of it didn’t require authorization by Congress that year. In other words, Congress only specifically approved 14% of what the federal government spent that year.

 

Over the years, Congress has passed laws that allow federal spending without any annual congressional approval. The biggest chunk is for so-called “entitlement programs” like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and welfare. Congress provided these programs with “permanent appropriations.” Spending levels are set automatically, based on eligibility rules and benefit amounts.

 

Over the years, this kind of autopilot spending authority exploded from $1.7 trillion in 1994 to $3.2 trillion by 2015. That’s an 87% increase, after adjusting for inflation.

 

 

The US population has increased by 24% since 1994, so “autopilot spending” per capita — again, mostly entitlements — has increased by nearly 66%.

 

 

 

 

.

Aging population. Those old Conservative voters just keep sucking up more of the nation's resources

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Aging population. Those old Conservative voters just keep sucking up more of the nation's resources

Silver lining.  They are offing themselves more:

 

https://www.ajc.com/news/gun-deaths-highest-level-years-cdc-says/vgcdQWPITScDYEdpHrswBP/amp.html

 

And they had drugs in their systems:

 

“Those individuals that do complete suicides -- when autopsies are performed, (they) definitely have one or more substances in their bodies at the time of the suicide death,” Cauffield said. 

She said those who take their own lives tend to fit the same demographic.

“We are seeing a real rise in suicides, particularly males age 60 and higher,” Cauffield said.

 

[plenzmd1]

No shutdown..TRump backed down

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, plenzmd1 said:

No shutdown..TRump backed down

 

This could be about something else, but I'm guessing not.

[plenzmd1]

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

This could be about something else, but I'm guessing not.

Alerts on my phone from the WAPO said she has already announced no shutdown...and not sure where to put it but also Trump Foundation being shut down over tons of illegal activity

[Buffalo_Gal]

5 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Alerts on my phone from the WAPO said she has already announced no shutdown...and not sure where to put it but also Trump Foundation being shut down over tons of illegal activity

I hate to link to cnn but I saw it elsewhere, so I figure it must be true...

Trump Foundation agrees to dissolve under court supervision
 

The Donald J. Trump Foundation has agreed to dissolve under judicial supervision amid an ongoing lawsuit concerning its finances, according to a document filed Tuesday in Manhattan Supreme Court by the New York state Attorney General's office.
 

The dissolution of President Donald Trump's charity resolves one element of the attorney general's civil lawsuit against the foundation, which includes claims that the President and his children violated campaign finance laws and abused its tax-exempt status. The lawsuit will continue in court because it also seeks two other outcomes: $2.8 million in restitution, plus penalties, and a ban on Trump and his three eldest children serving on the board of any other New York nonprofit.

</snip>

[DC Tom]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I hate to link to cnn but I saw it elsewhere, so I figure it must be true...

...and a ban on Trump and his three eldest children serving on the board of any other New York nonprofit.

</snip>

 

Hit 'em where it hurts: their ability to work for free.  

[Buffalo_Gal]

21 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

No shutdown..TRump backed down

The military budget (that he had asked to be increased) will build and fund it would be my guess.

[outsidethebox]

Next, shutdown the illegal clinton foundation!

[plenzmd1]

40 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

The military budget (that he had asked to be increased) will build and fund it would be my guess.

Could be. I actually think almost everyone is OK with the wall , I know I am. I just don’t think it is the only answer to our immigration issues. 

 

Trump lost this fight because of his words, not because of the wall

[Nanker]

[Buffalo_Gal]

There's a gofundme for everything...  https://www.gofundme.com/thetrumpwall

[Tiberius]

Trump, what a loser. No wall, no deal, no negotiating skills whatsoever 

[Foxx]

a whitehouse.gov link.

 

Executive Order on Providing for the Closing of Executive Departments and Agencies of the Federal Government on December 24, 2018

[Tiberius]

 

Shut down looms as House GOP demand stupid border wall Mexico was suppose to pay for 

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/422254-house-to-vote-on-stopgap-in-face-of-conservative-anger