Any Buyer's Remorse From Teams That Drafted QB in Round 1?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, NewEra said:

Why would none of them start?  Do you see who our OLmen are?  All bums.  But our bums are better than theirs?  Dawkins is our best OL and he’s terrible.  You also realize that an OL coach can help these guys get better.  Our OL coach doesn’t. He’s worse than our OLmen.  That’s matters and is a reason that our Ol is playing worse than theirs. 

 

Name which Cardinal Offensive Lineman who would start for the Bills. It's a very easy proposition.  Save all of the extraneous noise you just typed. You won't name any of them because none would.

[Boatdrinks]

At this point I highly doubt it. If any of those teams didn’t draft a QB, what were the alternatives? Kirk Cousins? Keenum? Down the road there may be some remorse but its just way too soon for that. 

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Name which Cardinal Offensive Lineman who would start for the Bills. It's a very easy proposition.  Save all of the extraneous noise you just typed. You won't name any of them because none would.

I can’t say because I don’t know enough about them.  I haven’t broke down tape.  I’m sure you’ve broke down game tape of the cardinals OL though.  

 

All of our OLmen suck.  You wanna fight about who sucks worse.  Look at you

[Doc Brown]

9 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Arizona might.    Rosen’s doing nothing with solid weapons 

They have a worse pass protection from their o-line than we do.  The only rookie QB with at least an average supporting cast is Mayfield and it shows in his performance.

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I can’t say because I don’t know enough about them.  I haven’t broke down tape.  I’m sure you’ve broke down game tape of the cardinals OL though.  

 

All of our OLmen suck.  You wanna fight about who sucks worse.  Look at you

 

  Look at me?  You must be confused because you knocked on my door with this discussion and you don't even know who the players are. Yet, you want to question me.  Good night and sleep tight. 

[RosenNOTchosen1]

12 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Mayfield is far and away the best of the bunch.  Right now, Lamar Jackson comes in second, but I think it has a lot to do with the team he is on.   Allen and Darnold are incredibly close at this point, and you can see why those were the two guys it seemed to come down to for Buffalo.  

 

I dont believe Rosen will ever become a top quarterback in the league.  I didn't when he was coming out, and I dont now.  Nothing about him looks to be anything more than average.

 

When you look at first round quarterbacks analytics will tell you they hit at about a 30% success rate.  When you apply that to this draft class, and assume Baker is one success, its likely that only one other guy is a success long term.

 

I think Jackson will come to Earth, and think it comes down to Darnold or Allen.   Otherwise, lets hope this is the 2004 draft class redux. 

If this is true I think we're screwed.

 

Darnold is going to be a very good NFL quarterback. 

[Magox]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

They have a worse pass protection from their o-line than we do.  The only rookie QB with at least an average supporting cast is Mayfield and it shows in his performance.

They do not have worse pass protection.

 

Stats and our eyes back that up.

 

Look at the stats that Bandit posted.  Look at PFT's stats that show that Allen has been by far the most pressured QB in the league.

 

For crying out loud, have you been watching the Bills games of late?  Allen drops back and has about a second and half before someone comes right up the middle.  You would think that with all the stats backing this assertion up and the fact that you've seen the Bills games that you'd see this.

 

He rarely has the time to drop back and have an opportunity to go through his progressions.

 

Come'on now!

Edited December 12, 2018 by Magox

[Greatdane21]

mayfield has played the best ,however he has more offensive talent at this point . 

Allen has no OL ,all young WR  , no TE & no running game . He seems to be improving every game . The fear is injury too much runnng.

Darnold is much in the same position as Allen has more of a running game and better OL

Jackson running way too much could be taking a beating = short career

Rosen no OL weakest of the bunch with his feet . Needs a tremendous running game to succeed.

the off season moves will be crucial to continued advancement.

[Captain Hindsight]

17 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

For me Rosen actually looks the worst. He possibly has the best weapons and their offense just looks pathetic. Like ours the first half of the season lol only it’s been all year for them. 

Right now I think we’d kill to see allen with a washed up Fitzgerald and Christian Kirk with David Johnson 

Right? To be fair to Rosen his line is atrocious, but when I see "no weapons" I get a little annoyed

[Dr. Who]

I think Mayfield, Darnold, and Allen give the most hope for long-term success. In terms of the Rosen vs. Allen dialogue, it doesn't really matter if the BIlls or the Cardinals have the worst o-line. You are arguing over which awful line is worse. What is evident is that Allen provides leadership, the possibility of an exceptional play, running ability, and physical prowess that Rosen does not have. Surround Rosen with very good players, he may very well be a good NFL qb, but Allen demonstrates both tangible and intangible abilities that suggest he can raise the level of play of those around him. Think we got the Right Josh.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Dr. Who

[BuffaloSol]

19 hours ago, GRHater69 said:

I think Mayfield is the best of the class at this point and it will be on their front office to maximize his talents with a good coaching staff. He has a good supporting cast thanks to all those low finishes the Browns have had. Darnold will be a good one as well, but the same will hold true for him depending on what the Jets do in the off season. Rosen is on a bad team right now, worse than the Bills or Jets and while I doubt Wilks goes one and done, if things don't get better next year, they may also be shaking things up next year

 

Edmunds is a boy in a man's body. He's playing a difficult position at 20 years of age. It also wouldn't surprise me if he's hitting the rookie wall as well. He should be much better next year with a full year of film study and NFL strength and conditioning. I do like what I've seen from Allen, but am also realistic. He does seem to have more between the ears than JP or EJ which hopefully means he can develop and be coached out of bad habits. Now to be fair, Trent Edwards had more brain power than those other two guys and washed out. But I'd like to think Allen has more mental toughness than Trent. Trent had potential, bit the hits and the Ints got in his head. We need to remember where Allen came from also, Wyoming is not a big time school program compared to the other guys.  The fact that he's gotten this far has made me take more notice.

 

 

I don't understand how people say rosen has it worse. He has larry Fitzgerald and david Johnson along with a pro bowl G. I wouldn't say he has it worse I'd say all three teams have it equally as bad, with Rosen having more offensive weapons and help than Darnold or Allen.

18 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

One year in no team has buyers remorse unless the pick was considered a huge unfathomable reach. All 5 rookie QB's went in appropriate draft slots. Rosen over Allen you could argue but Allen was a prospect that would have been drafted in the top 10. So no there is no buyers remorse from any teams just yet. Now year 2 if a QB doesn't start to at least progress beyond their rookie production then you start to have buyers remorse. 

Jackson should have went in Rosen's draft slot. IMO Rosen was drafted to high. He looks like more of a second round flier type guy that needs an elite team surrounding him to have a chance. 

[Doc]

I wanted Rosen prior to the draft and was pissed when they didn't take him.  Now I'm glad they didn't and went with Allen.

[416BillsFan]

I think all 5 teams feel good-great about their QBs. All have shown flashes, none look like outright busts this year. However, if we are talking coaches, Todd Bowles likely regrets the trade that lead to taking Darnold over Allen & Rosen. Nothing against Sam, but he hasn't looked that much better than the Joshes to justify losing the two second round picks (plus one next year). Would those picks have translated to enough wins to save his job? Probably not, but I'm sure he must have thought about it.

[Teddy KGB]

28 minutes ago, Doc said:

I wanted Rosen prior to the draft and was pissed when they didn't take him.  Now I'm glad they didn't and went with Allen.

 

Same, it would take Rosen and two firsts to swap them now.  

 

He kinda sucks 

[Doc]

15 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Same, it would take Rosen and two firsts to swap them now.  

 

He kinda sucks 

 

He has some personnel issues too but I like everything about Allen and think he can improve upon his accuracy.

[dave mcbride]

11 hours ago, NewEra said:

I can’t say because I don’t know enough about them.  I haven’t broke down tape.  I’m sure you’ve broke down game tape of the cardinals OL though.  

 

All of our OLmen suck.  You wanna fight about who sucks worse.  Look at you

26 is right here given that pretty much the entire starting o-line of AZ is on IR. You can't say that about the Bills. 

[BillsMafia13]

I know its off topic and not an accurate scale but I think its funny the top 6 highest paid qbs all wont make the playoffs this year.  QB> all else but its still crazy

 

 

Aaron Rodgers	Packers	$134,000,000	$33,500,000	$78,700,000	$19,675,000	58.7%	2024 UFA
Matt Ryan	Falcons	$150,000,000	$30,000,000	$94,500,000	$18,900,000	63.0%	2024 UFA
Kirk Cousins	Vikings	$84,000,000	$28,000,000	$84,000,000	$28,000,000	100.0%	2021 UFA
Jimmy Garoppolo	49ers	$137,500,000	$27,500,000	$48,700,000	$9,740,000	35.4%	2023 UFA
Matt Stafford	Lions	$135,000,000	$27,000,000	$60,500,000	$12,100,000	44.8%	2023 UFA
Derek Carr	Raiders	$125,025,000	$25,005,000	$40,000,000	$8,000,000	32.0%	2023 UFA

[PolishPrince]

9 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

If this is true I think we're screwed.

 

Darnold is going to be a very good NFL quarterback. 

What makes you say this? He makes bone headed INT's every single game, and fumbles a lot. All through college he had turnover issues... and he leads the league in INT's despite not playing 4 games lol. He isnt throwing a bunch, or being asked to throw down the field often.

I dont think he will be terrible, but I dont get why some people are suckin his D after one game vs the Bills where he started every drive on our side of the 50, mostly thanks to ST. He not only threw a pick just as bad as Josh's. but he should of had another possibly Pick 6 if Levi Wallace doesnt have the ball go right through his hands after jumping the route

[26CornerBlitz]

Joe Flacco is back from his hi injury, but will serve as Lamar Jackson's backup.  I can't see Flacco staying with the Ravens in 2019

[Flip Johnson]

1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Same, it would take Rosen and two firsts to swap them now.  

 

He kinda sucks 

 

The concern with Rosen (for me) is just the eye test. 

 

Mayfield seems to have a certain charisma and has more advanced touch and accuracy.

Darnold shows clear potential and has prototypical size.

Allen is an incredible athlete, the biggest, strongest, fastest guy with the best arm - the one you'd pick first on the playground.

Jackson has great speed.

 

Rosen is listed as 6'4" 218, but he looks slight. He doesn't have the charisma, the arm strength, the physicality, or the foot speed that the other guys have. I wonder if "most pro-ready" is some kind of euphemism for lack of physical tools ... Nate Peterman was "pro ready" if you recall.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

26 is right here given that pretty much the entire starting o-line of AZ is on IR. You can't say that about the Bills. 

That doesn’t mean they’re really any better.  I do know that Castillo sucks.  An OL coach and scheme can mean as much as talent when it comes to how a unit plays when every offensive lineman is bad.  The ravens had a terrible run game with Castillo coaching the OL.  Since he’s been here, our running game has been terrible and last year we had some talent on the OL.  If it wasn’t for having QBs that run for lots of yards, his running game coaching the bills might be the worst in the league  

 

As bad as the AZ line has been playing, ours has been equally bad.  Statistics do show that.  Stats aren’t everything, but how some guy at home views backup caliber OLmen isn’t everything either.  I’ll take stats over how 26 grades the Arizona offensive line

[NewEra]

13 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

  Look at me?  You must be confused because you knocked on my door with this discussion and you don't even know who the players are. Yet, you want to question me.  Good night and sleep tight. 

You act as if you scout the Arizona Cardinals OL.  Please.  You have no clue who these guys are.  Stats show that they are playing better than us.  When I watched them this year, vs the niners x2 and the Chargers.  They were bad.  Equally as bad as us.  Add in the fact that our OL is one of the most penaltized units in football.  Is the talent on paper lesser than ours?  Yes.  Are they playing better our OL?  No.  

 

Youre a guy on that just lives on the web 24/7.  You aren’t a scout and I don’t believe that you’ve broken down any gametape of the Arizona Cardinals OL.  Any declaration you make about the Cardinals OL play vs ours isn’t worth discussing because you’re pretending to know more about it than you do.

 

edit:  and when I quoted you initially, I was talking about the Cardinals OL and Playmakers.  You seem to have left out the part about the playmakers.  Convenient 

Edited December 12, 2018 by NewEra

[Teddy KGB]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You act as if you scout the Arizona Cardinals OL.  Please.  You have no clue who these guys are.  Stats show that they are playing better than us.  When I watched them this year, vs the niners x2 and the Chargers.  They were bad.  Equally as bad as us.  Add in the fact that our OL is one of the most penaltized units in football.  Is the talent on paper lesser than ours?  Yes.  Are they playing better our OL?  No.  

 

Youre a guy on that just lives on the web 24/7.  You aren’t a scout and I don’t believe that you’ve broken down any gametape of the Arizona Cardinals OL.  Any declaration you make about the Cardinals OL play vs ours isn’t worth discussing because you’re pretending to know more about it than you do.

 

Hes so desperate for Rosen to outplay Allen ????

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Hes so desperate for Rosen to outplay Allen ????

I don’t even know if that’s it.  He just doesn’t like to be told he’s wrong, which I understand.  No one does.

 

edit:  I was a Rosen guy too.  I’m now extremely happy that we took Allen.  I don’t know if he’ll ever be a great qb, but I know he’ll be exciting and I’ll enjoy watching him grow on his journey to become the qb that brings a super bowl to Buffalo

Edited December 12, 2018 by NewEra

[26CornerBlitz]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You act as if you scout the Arizona Card inals OL.  Please.  You have no clue who these guys are. Stats show that they are playing better than us.  When I watched them this year, vs the niners x2 and the Chargers.  They were bad.  Equally as bad as us.  Add in the fact that our OL is one of the most penaltized units in football.  Is the talent on paper lesser than ours?  Yes.  Are they playing better our OL?  No.  

 

Youre a guy on that just lives on the web 24/7.  You aren’t a scout and I don’t believe that you’ve broken down any gametape of the Arizona Cardinals OL.  Any declaration you make about the Cardinals OL play vs ours isn’t worth discussing because you’re pretending to know more about it than you do.

 

You have no idea as you admitted. Speak for yourself and only yourself. You're starting an argument with zero knowledge base which make you ridiculous.  Instead of buttressing your argument you instead make groundless statements, you resort to a personal attack as if that means you are correct.  It's your typical weak sauce. 

 

Not only that, you make silly assertions about 24/7 and other things you can't substantiate.  You should bow out now while you can or at least until you are familiar with the players you claim to be better than what the Bills have at OL.   Change your handle to New Error. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[billsfan89]

2 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Hes so desperate for Rosen to outplay Allen ????

 

I will admit I was a Rosen over Allen guy, although I did understand why the Bills made the pick I was still concerned the Bills fell for a big arm instead of a more complete prospect. I would still say the jury is still out on both. If the Bills had a do over based off their rookie years they stick with Allen 11 times out of 10. That being said their careers could still shake out either way, so I don't think Bills fans should anoint Allen anything just yet nor should anyone consider Rosen a bust yet. 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You have no idea as you admitted. Speak for yourself and only yourself. You're starting an argument with zero knowledge base which make you ridiculous.  Instead of buttressing your argument you instead make groundless statements, you resort to a personal attack as if that means you are correct.  It's your typical weak sauce. 

 

Not only that, you make silly assertions about 24/7 and other things you can't substantiate.  You should bow out now while you can or at least until you are familiar with the players you claim to be better than what the Bills have at OL.   Change your handle to New Error. 

I don’t have to substantiate them.  There are statistics.  I’m not making up the statistics.  

 

So you’ve broken down the gametape of the. Arizona Cardinals OL?  Lol

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, NewEra said:

I don’t have to substantiate them.  There are statistics.  I’m not making up the statistics.  

 

So you’ve broken down the gametape of the. Arizona Cardinals OL?  Lol

 

I have watched several of their games in addition to looking at their All-22 coaches film. What have you done besides look at numbers on a screen New Error? 

[NewEra]

15 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I have watched several of their games in addition to looking at their All-22 coaches film. What have you done besides look at numbers on a screen New Error? 

I’ve watched cardinal 3 games.  I’ve watched every Bills games.  I’ve looked at stats.  Stats support my arguement.  I know that our OL coach is terrible.  What evidence do you have that the Cardinals OL is worse than the Bills other than your opinion?  

18 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I have watched several of their games in addition to looking at their All-22 coaches film. What have you done besides look at numbers on a screen New Error? 

And what about the Arizona Playnakers compared to ours?  Ours are better I assume?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, NewEra said:

I’ve watched cardinal 3 games.  I’ve watched every Bills games.  I’ve looked at stats.  Stats support my arguement.  I know that our OL coach is terrible.  What evidence do you have that the Cardinals OL is worse than the Bills other than your opinion?  

 

They have the worst offense in the NFL and the primary reason for that is their atrocious OL.  Stat that!

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

They have the worst offense in the NFL and the primary reason for that is their atrocious OL.  Stat that!

We have the second worst and the only reason it’s better is because our Qb can run for 100 yards a game.  True story

[zow2]

On 12/11/2018 at 2:21 PM, Flip Johnson said:

Who, if any, of the five teams who drafted rookie QBs in the first round are experiencing some buyer's remorse and/or paranoia that they might have messed up?

 

I'm granting that none of the rookie QBs are finished products or lost causes and that they could all benefit from more weapons, better offensive infrastructure, etc.

 

I think the consensus right now would be:

 

1. I think Browns fans feel mostly great about Mayfield and are just excited about the 2019 coaching staff and how Mayfield could continue to develop. 

 

2. Jets fans feel semi-optimistic about Sam Darnold, but are more than a little concerned with his penchant to turn the ball over along with the possibility that maybe they should have taken Josh Allen instead.

 

3. Bills fans have a touch of fear from the past twenty years, but in general, feel really optimistic that JA is a budding superstar.

 

4. Arizona fans are hoping for weapons, coaching, etc., but have to be wondering if they really messed up on the Rosen pick. Fear level should be high here as he just doesn't seem to have the physicality or the playmaking ability anywhere near the other four QBs.

 

5. Don't know how Baltimore fans couldn't feel great about Lamar Jackson. Sustainability is a long term question but he has given them a spark and an identity.

 

Side note: I am THRILLED the Pats did not draft Jackson. 

Additional note: The teams that put off the QB search like the Pats or the teams that middled it with later round picks (Giants with Lauletta, Steelers with Rudolph, Jaguars with Tanner Lee) have a lot to think about, because those look like wasted picks at this point, and there search for the future has not progressed.

 

 

Kinda' cool that it seems like all 5 QB's selected were taken in the perfect order per their level of play thus far. 

 

Baker Mayfield looks like the best of the bunch.  My only question is how much better will he get? Seems like he's playing really good ball and maybe this is near his ceiling. I'm not sure why I feel that way, it's just a hunch.

 

Jets fans love Darnold and they could not be more pleased that they selected Sam over Josh Allen.   I do think Darnold gets better and could surpass Mayfield at some point when the Jets have a plan.

 

I thought Josh Allen was project for two years from now but he's looked pretty good.  His running is just fantastic and his arm is as advertised.  His accuracy while not polished is better than i thought it would be.  Some throws he zips right in there but all too often are dropped.  I do think Josh get A LOT better and this is probably the worst QB'ing we will see from him.(I hope!).  

 

You could definitely make an argument for flipping Lamar Jackson for Rosen in the #4 spot.   Jackson has the much better team and his running ability makes up for any passing deficiencies.  When Rosen sticks his foot in the ground and makes a quick, decisive throw, he looks good.  I think he will show big improvement going forward but I do think he looks small out there in a way... and has a tough time overcoming a bad line. 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, NewEra said:

We have the second worst and the only reason it’s better is because our Qb can run for 100 yards a game.  True story

 

Wrong again! 178 points scored which is DFL and they are last by far in DVOA rankings!  Their worst in the NFL OL is why they are so punchless in both the run and pass game. They have exact zero starters on that unit who would replace any Buffalo Bill starter.

 

Week 14 DVOA Ratings | Football Outsiders

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Wrong again! 178 points scored which is DFL and they are last by far in DVOA rankings!  Their worst in the NFL OL is why they are so punchless in both the run and pass game. They have exact zero starters on that unit who would replace any Buffalo Bill starter.

 

Week 14 DVOA Ratings | Football Outsiders

I said we are the 2nd worst. We are.  That’s all I said.  How is that wrong?  You’re the one that’s making stuff up. 

 

Josh Allen running the football is our entire offense.  His running is a direct result of how bad our OL is.  He runs because he has too.  

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

I said we are the 2nd worst. We are.  That’s all I said.  How is that wrong?  You’re the one that’s making stuff up. 

 

Josh Allen running the football is our entire offense.  His running is a direct result of how bad our OL is.  He runs because he has too.  

 

Incorrect. He runs because he takes advantage of man to man coverage in empty sets with wide open field in front of him.

1 minute ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Someone needs a snickers

 

My snickers is putting you back on my ignore list.  So delicious! 

[Royale with Cheese]

[thebandit27]

28 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Wrong again! 178 points scored which is DFL and they are last by far in DVOA rankings!  Their worst in the NFL OL is why they are so punchless in both the run and pass game. They have exact zero starters on that unit who would replace any Buffalo Bill starter.

 

Week 14 DVOA Ratings | Football Outsiders

 

I don't 'have a dog in this fight, but isn't it kind of disingenuous to cite FO's DVOA ratings for offense in support of a poor OL when the very same website has their OL as performing much better than Buffalo's in literally every category?

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

It's also worth noting that both of Arizona's top 2 WRs--Fitz and Kirk--have higher DVOA ratings than any Buffalo WR with 50 targets, but Robert Foster does have the highest DVOA rating of any of them 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I don't 'have a dog in this fight, but isn't it kind of disingenuous to cite FO's DVOA ratings for offense in support of a poor OL when the very same website has their OL as performing much better than Buffalo's in literally every category?

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

It's also worth noting that both of Arizona's top 2 WRs--Fitz and Kirk--have higher DVOA ratings than any Buffalo WR with 50 targets, but Robert Foster does have the highest DVOA rating of any of them 

Wait for it

[SoCal Deek]

Where’s Mason Rudolph?

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, NewEra said:

Wait for it