Allen's Last Pass (12/2): Bad Pass or Drop?

[Gugny]

23 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

What isnt civil is going one way or the other when both were *****.

 

I can tell this is bothering you.  I feel terrible about it.  I'm going to add a "Both," option.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah ... I'm not.  It's black and white.  Either a bad pass or a dropped pass.  Period.

[Boca BIlls]

54 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I can tell this is bothering you.  I feel terrible about it.  I'm going to add a "Both," option.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nah ... I'm not.  It's black and white.  Either a bad pass or a dropped pass.  Period.

You are wrong, but it's ok... it goes back to my first post.

[TigerJ]

Yes, it was (a relatively poor pass that was dropped).  Obviously, Allen was running around trying to escape pressure.  He didn't feel like he had the opportunity to set his fee properly, and it was a deep pass attempt, all of which makes it more difficult to unleash a perfect pass.  Clay should have been more cognizant of Allen's scrambling, and should have come to the front of the end zone sooner.  That would have made it an easier catch to make.  In the end, it was a a catchable ball,, but a tough one to haul in.

[auburnbillsbacker]

The throw was fine considering he was heavily pressured and threw the ball from one side of the field to the other.  

[Doc]

4 hours ago, pop gun said:

True and I agree, but I don't understand why people say it was a bad pass, what was bad about it? It made at least 2 yards deep into the endzone, yet I keep seeing it referred to as a bad pass, why? No one can argue that it didn't get there, Clay dropped it, it's 100% on Clay.

 

Because it wasn't a perfect spiral and/or because Clay couldn't catch it.  It didn't need to be a perfect spiral as long as it got to him, which it did, and Clay dropping it had no bearing on whether it was a good pass or not.

[TheBrownBear]

It was Herculean feat by JA just to escape pressure and get that in the vicinity of Clay, so there's no way I put the blame on Josh for that.  At the same time, it wasn't the easiest of catches for a tight end with bad knees.  Zay is as much to blame for dropping the prior pass as Clay was for dropping his.  Neither were "easy" grabs, but you'd like to think we'd be able to hold on to at least one of them.  So, yes, Clay "should" have caught it, but it's easy to see why he didn't. 

[Cripple Creek]

On 12/2/2018 at 6:31 PM, Gugny said:

Should Clay have caught the ball?  Or was it just a bad pass?

bad thread

[Mat68]

3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

It was on Clay as much as the drop against Carolina last season was on Zay.

 

Not a great throw, but certainly catchable. Now if you spent last season bashing Tyrod Taylor for the throw against Carolina and are not claiming this was all on Clay, you're being intellectually dishonest.

Under perfect circumstances Taylor made a poor throw.  Allen reversed feild twice and threw a crossed his body for 40 plus yards.  The fact the ball was even catchable defies physics.  The pass before to Jones would be a similar pass.  3 steps boom Allen put it on the money.

22 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

It was Herculean feat by JA just to escape pressure and get that in the vicinity of Clay, so there's no way I put the blame on Josh for that.  At the same time, it wasn't the easiest of catches for a tight end with bad knees.  Zay is as much to blame for dropping the prior pass as Clay was for dropping his.  Neither were "easy" grabs, but you'd like to think we'd be able to hold on to at least one of them.  So, yes, Clay "should" have caught it, but it's easy to see why he didn't. 

Those are plays Mahomes, Brees, Brady and Rodgers routinely have guys making.    When its caught it's great.  When its dropped he is inaccurate.  

Edited December 4, 2018 by Mat68

[Dante]

On 12/2/2018 at 3:35 PM, LikeIGiveADarn said:

It's not reasonable to expect Allen to make a perfect pass there, but he got the ball into the hands of the receiver, who dropped it.

With no one around him. No DB distracting him. Good pass considering the situation I thought. Would have been a decent catch if he made it but not spectacular by any stretch.

[oldmanfan]

I remember my pee wee coach telling us that if you get your hands on it you should catch it

[zow2]

The ball definitely must’ve slipped out of Josh’s hand.  Even going to his left he was able to Rip it and his arm is plenty strong enough, even when tired.  

You can tell on replay Clays right toe caught the turf monster, so he was falling forward. What I don’t understand is why a professional receiver like Clay would not get his arms under the ball to keep it From hitting the ground?  It’s like he short armed it.  Strange all around

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Ayoooo tell me this isn't a drop-

 

 

That image doesn't even tell the whole story. Clay doesn't need to be on the ground at all. He needed to take two steps forward while the ball was in the air. He completely misjudged the trajectory of the ball.

[Joeziehmer]

We are out of the playoffs and Charles Clay and Kelvin Benjamin both suck.  Get used to not seeing them anywhere and they would not last in the CFL.  Nobody even covered Clay and he gave up on the play which seems to be his only real characteristic as a player.  

[Magox]

3 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Bad throw and a drop... did you not understand?

I think people are just thinking to themselves " What sort of a retard could possibly think that was a bad throw considering the circumstances?"    

[HappyDays]

Did anyone post the all 22 view yet?

 

Look how long Clay is standing still in the endzone while Allen runs in the opposite direction. I think he assumed he was out of the play, and by the time he realized Allen could get the pass to him it was too late. He gave up and couldn't recover in time. Disappointing to say the least.

[Frez]

After watching it again, that pass was absolutely horrible! Looks like a wounded floppy duck in the air. If that was just a little better pass, clay snags it. 

 

FYI..I love our rookie QB. 

[Boca BIlls]

8 hours ago, Magox said:

I think people are just thinking to themselves " What sort of a retard could possibly think that was a bad throw considering the circumstances?"    

Was no circumstances... Allen even admitted it was a bad throw... I guess Josh Allen is a retard by your thinking.

 

Sorry for ruining your ***** moment.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Boca BIlls

[Pbomb]

Seems to me clay misjudged it and dove to soon. could have ran up to it more, not to mention why he was at the very back of the end zone to begin with. When your qb is running for his life you are supposed to run back to him to help

[Pbomb]

Our interior oline didn’t help either , one gets bullrushed to collapse the pocket and blow the play up and the other 2 block no one. Allen shouldn’t have to be running for his life from a 3 man rush

[wnysteel]

20 hours ago, pop gun said:

Just wondering about the people who say it was a bad pass, what was bad about it? It traveled almost 45 yards in the air about 3 yards deep into the endzone, what was bad about it? Was it not a perfect spiral, because I'm not getting what was so bad about the last pass.

 

i'm wondering if something is still wrong with his elbow. i saw a few passes that were not tight spirals, and more like wounded ducks in the game. when that happens, accuracy is going to suffer. i hadn't really seen this up until sunday. that's my only question/point.

15 hours ago, JohninMinn. said:

It looked like Clay was trying to keep two feet in the end zone.  He had plenty of time to get underneath that thing.

 

^^ this. why did he stop running and dive? if he kept his feet moving, he would have came back to the ball for an easy catch.

[Big Gun]

6 hours ago, Frez said:

After watching it again, that pass was absolutely horrible! Looks like a wounded floppy duck in the air. If that was just a little better pass, clay snags it. 

 

FYI..I love our rookie QB. 

Define bad pass.

 

Went 45 yards in the air and made it 3 yards deep into the endzone.

 

Was it bad because it wobbled? If so then how does anyone ever catch a kickoff? 

 

The pass was fine, nothing wrong with it, Clay just sucks and gaffed it!

[Doc]

Yeah, how pretty the pass is makes no difference.  All that's important is that it reach its target, which it did.  Clay just ***** up.

[Dante]

14 hours ago, Joeziehmer said:

We are out of the playoffs and Charles Clay and Kelvin Benjamin both suck.  Get used to not seeing them anywhere and they would not last in the CFL.  Nobody even covered Clay and he gave up on the play which seems to be his only real characteristic as a player.  

I think we could do just as well with Croom. Although I don't have any idea of his blocking ability. But as far as the receiving aspect he is better than Clay. Save lots of money as well.

[Frez]

3 hours ago, pop gun said:

Define bad pass.

 

Went 45 yards in the air and made it 3 yards deep into the endzone.

 

Was it bad because it wobbled? If so then how does anyone ever catch a kickoff? 

 

The pass was fine, nothing wrong with it, Clay just sucks and gaffed it!

Ok, I will try.

 

The pass was under thrown and wobbled like a wounded duck. If that pass had more steam and was a bit more tighter it would've been game over Buffalo wins. No doubt in my mind! 

[LDD]

Just now, Frez said:

Ok, I will try.

 

The pass was under thrown and wobbled like a wounded duck. If that pass had more steam and was a bit more tighter it would've been game over Buffalo wins. No doubt in my mind! 

No, if that pass had more steam and was perfectly thrown, the tragedy of Clay dropping it would have been magnified because he would have dropped it standing up in the end zone.  Clay sucks.  

 

[thebandit27]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Did anyone post the all 22 view yet?

 

Look how long Clay is standing still in the endzone while Allen runs in the opposite direction. I think he assumed he was out of the play, and by the time he realized Allen could get the pass to him it was too late. He gave up and couldn't recover in time. Disappointing to say the least.

 

Seals it for me: Clay not only dropped it, he waited waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long to break on the ball.

 

7 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Was no circumstances... Allen even admitted it was a bad throw... I guess Josh Allen is a retard by your thinking.

 

Sorry for ruining your ***** moment.

 

Allen took responsibility; and yes, it wasn't a great throw...but it was most certainly good enough.

[Boca BIlls]

19 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Seals it for me: Clay not only dropped it, he waited waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long to break on the ball.

 

 

Allen took responsibility; and yes, it wasn't a great throw...but it was most certainly good enough.

So bad throw and bad drop. Why the ***** is it so hard for you people. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Boca BIlls

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

So bad throw and bad drop. Why the ***** is it so hard for you people. 

 

Maybe because it's not us; it's you.

 

And I know I said it wasn't a great throw...so let me make this clear: It's not a bad throw...it's actually a sensational throw.  Not good, not very good, not great; utterly sensational.

 

I said it before: ask any pass catcher in the NFL if he would've caught that ball with the game on the line, and 100% of them would say yes without a scintilla of hesitation.  In contrast, ask any QB in the NFL if they could have made that throw in those conditions, and there might be 5 guys that could honestly say yes. Mahomes could do it, maybe Cam too.  On his best day, Aaron Rodgers could make that throw.  Maybe Carson Wentz if he's fully healthy.

 

That's your list.

 

If the throw is good enough to be caught with the game on the line, then it's not a bad throw.  When the throw is good enough to be caught, in fully uncontested fashion, under those conditions, then it's a sensational throw.  Was it perfect?  No, and if you want to say that it's a bad throw because it wasn't the greatest throw of all time (which it would be in contention for if it made it to Clay where he was standing still and not working back to the QB), well, I suppose that's your prerogative...but I think you're grading on a totally unrealistic scale.

Edited December 4, 2018 by thebandit27

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

So bad throw and bad drop. Why the ***** is it so hard for you people. 

 

I can see that you're still very upset about the lack of a "BOTH," option - even though it's been presented to you in about 4,231.7 ways how this was a pass that was thrown to where it could be caught, where it was subsequently not caught (dropped) by the wide receiver.

 

I'm starting to get concerned.

 

If your employer has some sort of an EAP, I suggest looking into it.  If not, perhaps there is someone here that can work with you Pro Bono to get you into a better state of mind.

 

In the mean time, I suggest you leave this thread alone.  It's simply not healthy and it's breaking my heart to watch you continue to publicly deteriorate.

 

Bless you, my son.

[Frez]

29 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Seals it for me: Clay not only dropped it, he waited waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long to break on the ball.

 

 

Allen took responsibility; and yes, it wasn't a great throw...but it was most certainly good enough.

It wasn't good enough! 

[GoBills808]

I vote both. Where's the 'both' option?

[Boca BIlls]

22 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I can see that you're still very upset about the lack of a "BOTH," option - even though it's been presented to you in about 4,231.7 ways how this was a pass that was thrown to where it could be caught, where it was subsequently not caught (dropped) by the wide receiver.

 

I'm starting to get concerned.

 

If your employer has some sort of an EAP, I suggest looking into it.  If not, perhaps there is someone here that can work with you Pro Bono to get you into a better state of mind.

 

In the mean time, I suggest you leave this thread alone.  It's simply not healthy and it's breaking my heart to watch you continue to publicly deteriorate.

 

Bless you, my son.

I'm not reading all of that since it has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. 

 

Both is the only correct answer, dont get mad b.c you forgot an option just learn next time you make a thread.

22 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Maybe because it's not us; it's you.

 

And I know I said it wasn't a great throw...so let me make this clear: It's not a bad throw...it's actually a sensational throw.  Not good, not very good, not great; utterly sensational.

 

I said it before: ask any pass catcher in the NFL if he would've caught that ball with the game on the line, and 100% of them would say yes without a scintilla of hesitation.  In contrast, ask any QB in the NFL if they could have made that throw in those conditions, and there might be 5 guys that could honestly say yes. Mahomes could do it, maybe Cam too.  On his best day, Aaron Rodgers could make that throw.  Maybe Carson Wentz if he's fully healthy.

 

That's your list.

 

If the throw is good enough to be caught with the game on the line, then it's not a bad throw.  When the throw is good enough to be caught, in fully uncontested fashion, under those conditions, then it's a sensational throw.  Was it perfect?  No, and if you want to say that it's a bad throw because it wasn't the greatest throw of all time (which it would be in contention for if it made it to Clay where he was standing still and not working back to the QB), well, I suppose that's your prerogative...but I think you're grading on a totally unrealistic scale.

It was a bad throw, get over it. Clay was working back to it. You sound like that guy who called up WGR a d said the same thing... he got laughed off the phone line.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Boca BIlls

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

I'm not reading all of that since it has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. 

 

If you didn't read it, how do you know whether it's relevant?

[GoBills808]

I am boycotting this thread and all others by OP until a 'Both' option is inserted. 

[thebandit27]

4 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

 

It was a bad throw, get over it. Clay was working back to it. You sound like that guy who called up WGR a d said the same thing... he got laughed off the phone line.

 

If that's your belief, then you didn't watch the play.

 

Clay is standing still in the back of the end zone when the ball is released.  If that is someone's definition of "working back to the QB", then that person is simply acluistic.

 

You wanted the QB to throw the ball more than the 60 yards in the air that he managed to heave it across his body on the run after running 50+ yards?  Again, such an opinion defies any brand of logic.

 

It was a tremendous throw...and I couldn't care less if some dude got laughed off of WGR.  In fact, him being laughed off of WGR would strongly bolster my opinion of whatever he said, since that duo has been furiously anti-Allen since well before the draft.

 

And so I'll say it again, and then I'll leave you to your own thoughts: ask any pass catcher in the NFL if he would've caught that ball with the game on the line, and 100% of them would say yes without a scintilla of hesitation.  In contrast, ask any QB in the NFL if they could have made that throw in those conditions, and there might be 5 guys that could honestly say yes. Mahomes could do it, maybe Cam too.  On his best day, Aaron Rodgers could make that throw.  Maybe Carson Wentz if he's fully healthy.

 

[Big Gun]

28 minutes ago, Frez said:

It wasn't good enough! 

Sure it was.

 

After 8 seconds of running around to get the throw off it went 45 air yards and 3 yards deep into the endzone. It was there, you cant argue it wasnt, Clay had both hands on it and dropped it. Good throw, bad drop, end of story.

[GoBills808]

Both! Both!

[thebandit27]

Just now, pop gun said:

Sure it was.

 

After 8 seconds of running around to get the throw off it went 45 air yards and 3 yards deep into the endzone. It was there, you cant argue it wasnt, Clay had both hands on it and dropped it. Good throw, bad drop, end of story.

 

Yeah but that dude got laughed off of WGR!!!!!

[Boca BIlls]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

If that's your belief, then you didn't watch the play.

 

Clay is standing still in the back of the end zone when the ball is released.  If that is someone's definition of "working back to the QB", then that person is simply acluistic.

 

You wanted the QB to throw the ball more than the 60 yards in the air that he managed to heave it across his body on the run after running 50+ yards?  Again, such an opinion defies any brand of logic.

 

It was a tremendous throw...and I couldn't care less if some dude got laughed off of WGR.  In fact, him being laughed off of WGR would strongly bolster my opinion of whatever he said, since that duo has been furiously anti-Allen since well before the draft.

 

And so I'll say it again, and then I'll leave you to your own thoughts: ask any pass catcher in the NFL if he would've caught that ball with the game on the line, and 100% of them would say yes without a scintilla of hesitation.  In contrast, ask any QB in the NFL if they could have made that throw in those conditions, and there might be 5 guys that could honestly say yes. Mahomes could do it, maybe Cam too.  On his best day, Aaron Rodgers could make that throw.  Maybe Carson Wentz if he's fully healthy.

 

When he saw the ball wasnt going to make it he started coming back. WATCH 

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

When he saw the ball wasnt going to make it he started coming back. WATCH 

 

I'm trying to figure out if you're just messing with me or if you really can't understand what you're reading.

 

I'll just post this again with even greater emphasis and hope you get it this time:

 

7 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

If that's your belief, then you didn't watch the play.

 

Clay is standing still in the back of the end zone when the ball is released.  If that is someone's definition of "working back to the QB", then that person is simply acluistic.

 

You wanted the QB to throw the ball more than the 60 yards in the air that he managed to heave it across his body on the run after running 50+ yards?  Again, such an opinion defies any brand of logic.

 

It was a tremendous throw...and I couldn't care less if some dude got laughed off of WGR.  In fact, him being laughed off of WGR would strongly bolster my opinion of whatever he said, since that duo has been furiously anti-Allen since well before the draft.

 

And so I'll say it again, and then I'll leave you to your own thoughts: ask any pass catcher in the NFL if he would've caught that ball with the game on the line, and 100% of them would say yes without a scintilla of hesitation.  In contrast, ask any QB in the NFL if they could have made that throw in those conditions, and there might be 5 guys that could honestly say yes. Mahomes could do it, maybe Cam too.  On his best day, Aaron Rodgers could make that throw.  Maybe Carson Wentz if he's fully healthy.

 

 

But forget all of that and answer this one question: does the ball hit him in the hands?

 

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

100% of NFL pass catchers should catch that ball with the game on the line.

 

Good through (outstanding actually); bad drop.

Edited December 4, 2018 by thebandit27