Doc Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 hour ago, CamboBill said: Both Richie AND the team lost. Think what you will of Richie's off field persona he was an absolute beast on the field. Richie strikes me as a guy who needs the NFL and football to keep his life and emotions together. The Bills threw silly money at guys like lotulei and Murphy this year, yet low balled Richie when he already had one of the best value contracts in the NFL when you considered his performance over the past few years. Richie, probably understood how much he needs football to keep his life together and accepted originally before understanding how much $$$ was going elsewhere. Understandably pissed he protested and McDermott did his "My Way" thing leaving Richie out of the league and starting a predictable downward spiral. Richie has his issues but the way the Bills handled his contract was classless. Meanwhile we take on and throw away 3.5 million $$$ for two weeks of Corey Coleman. The epitome of Organizational Incompetence. Yes they both lost. But Richie lost more. He gets no money at all for this year, which was probably his last year anyway in the NFL. Meanwhile the Bills take it on the chin for a year and then go find a replacement in FA or the draft next year. 33 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: I'd wager many Bills fans would rather lose with Peterman than win with Kaep, so yes, the customer is factored into the equation. I'd rather lose with Peterman making $800K than Kaep at $8M (assuming he'd even accept that, considering he's turned-down that much in the past because he fancies himself a starting QB). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Ayjent said: How was defense a priority when you don’t have anyone to protect your biggest investment in the draft and where you lost 3/5 starting level players? Oh because you decided to let your Starting CB and MLB go, and said we need to get someone from Carolina who was a poor performer and widely regarded as a horrible pickup for 10 mill/yr. Self-inflicted wounds that were avoidable and demonstrate that the process is flawed. 2 hours ago, Jasovon said: O-Line depth sucks around the league, the Colts and Seahawks have both struggled to keep their franchise guy upright. What you do need is someone that can catch and bail a QB out. This board has argued the OL situation and the replies above show 2 different lines of thought. The facts are the OL is in a level of bad that could be historic. Beane and/or McDermott had time to address it but did not. Many poster have tried to sell the theory that the 2nd of 2 5th round picks and 2 casts off (that is what they are) of Bodine and Newhouse addressed the OL issue. The Bills are spending $14 million for it's entire Offensive Line. That is record low asset appropriation. At the same time the Bills sunk a lot of new money and a 3rd round pick on the Defensive Line. Look at the positional spending for the Bills OL below compared to the league. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/offensive-line/ The Incognito argument has some merit BUT remember posters are debating a 35 year old lineman. Even if he played his last year of his contract out this year where is his replacement? There are single offensive lineman in the league making more money this year than the ENTIRE Bills starting lineup AND backups. Let that sink in. My final rant on this is the constant drumming of "The Bills got 90 million in FA and can find OL there next year" posts. That probably is NOT going to happen. Look at the available OL FAs for next year. Remember this FA list is as of now. Many of these guys will be resigned by there original teams and the Bills have to compete with 31 other teams to sign any of these players. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/offensive-line/ Unfortunately Josh Allen is going to be behind a bad OL for some time to come. I do think it will negatively affect his development. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayjent Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, BigBuff423 said: Again, the three and outs have a cumulative effect. I'm not saying the Defense was good, I'm saying it's not as bad as some are making it out to be when you look at the totality of circumstances. Dumping all over the Defense without taking into consideration just how much was asked of them in context of what the Offense *didn't* do, is failing to put it in perspective, IMHO. And I’m saying they both sucked really bad. No need to point the finger at one side more than the other. Neither did anything to help the team do enough to win. A total team loss from top to bottom, from players to the front office - every one has their hands on this one. Edited September 10, 2018 by Ayjent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I am really concerned. I get that they are trying to go all Cleveland Browns,,,get some high draft picks, clear out a bunch of cap space, get a franchise QB and have some time to groom him.. but a pretty good team is suddenly old and slow...and lacks talent all over the place. McD seems to get blown out a lot over 17 games. Does he even know how to prepare a team? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Ayjent said: And I’m saying they both sucked really bad. No need to point the finger at one side more than the other. Neither did anything to help the team do enough to win. A total team loss from top to bottom, from players to the front office - every one has their hands on this one. If you're really strong, and really focus I'm sure you can catch it.... You know....the sky that's falling. Buh-bye now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Batman1876 said: Darius saved us cap money last year and this year, despite the dead cap. His savings were used to sign Star its basically a push. Cordy and Tyrod saved us 15 mil in cap space this year. That accounts for the salary of Davis, Murphy, AJ and Bodine, meaning we only would have had space for the depth guys we signed. This team is probably better with Darius Tyrod and Glenn but its still not a good team with them. I'll take the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th we got for those players to build for the future over having those three guys make our terrible team a little better. Building for the future? ROTFLMAO. They spent the existing talent on the team to collect draft capital to get a QB and LB ... and put a team with expansion-team level talent around them. It's going to take another 3 plus years to even get back to the talent they had when McDermott was hired if they hit on most of their draft picks and FAs, and from what McDermott/Beane have done so far, that's not going to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: This board has argued the OL situation and the replies above show 2 different lines of thought. The facts are the OL is in a level of bad that could be historic. Beane and/or McDermott had time to address it but did not. Many poster have tried to sell the theory that the 2nd of 2 5th round picks and 2 casts off (that is what they are) of Bodine and Newhouse addressed the OL issue. The Bills are spending $14 million for it's entire Offensive Line. That is record low asset appropriation. At the same time the Bills sunk a lot of new money and a 3rd round pick on the Defensive Line. Look at the positional spending for the Bills OL below compared to the league. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/offensive-line/ The Incognito argument has some merit BUT remember posters are debating a 35 year old lineman. Even if he played his last year of his contract out this year where is his replacement? There are single offensive lineman in the league making more money this year than the ENTIRE Bills starting lineup AND backups. Let that sink in. My final rant on this is the constant drumming of "The Bills got 90 million in FA and can find OL there next year" posts. That probably is NOT going to happen. Look at the available OL FAs for next year. Remember this FA list is as of now. Many of these guys will be resigned by there original teams and the Bills have to compete with 31 other teams to sign any of these players. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/offensive-line/ Unfortunately Josh Allen is going to be behind a bad OL for some time to come. I do think it will negatively affect his development. Word. The FA pool next year is extremely weak. Smart teams lock up their good players because they understand that the cap really isn't an issue. Beane's recent bloviating about cap jail is the thing that bugs me the most about him; he assumes fans don't understad a cap that goes up by leaps and bounds every couple of years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 4 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: I'd wager many Bills fans would rather lose with Peterman than win with Kaep, so yes, the customer is factored into the equation. If 17 years of no playoffs with 15 non-winning seasons didn't empty the Ralph, bringing in Kaepernick wouldn't do so either. Bills fans settle for a crap product, which is why the Bills don't bother to truly put winning before profits. Do you know why the Glory Years happened? Crowds of 20k fans in then Rich Stadium in the 1980s post-Chuck Knox happened. Since attendance was a significant revenue source for NFL teams back then the mostly empty stadium hit Wilson where it hurt: his profit. That's when he turned the team over to Polian, and, as they, "the rest is history". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 11 hours ago, billsblood said: I agree with this rant...... is it time for the KAP? Anyone but Allen should be behind this line, otherwise just play Peterman and completely suck. They will need a third QB for when Peterman inevitably gets injured anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 12 hours ago, dezertbill said: Title of this thread is ridiculous. This front office has made some great decisions. Good thing he wrote a really nice post to support his thoughts. Not his fault you ignored it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFBillsfan Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Wonder if the Ravens would take a 5th for RGIII? If they don’t think Allen is ready then go get a proven vet! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) Something that needs to be remembered here! This organization decided, for a variety of reasons, that Allen was not ready and he should not start this year, or at least the early part of the year. The fact that Peterman sucks and cannot be played doesn't change that fact! If Allen goes in, the organization looks like a bunch of idiots who have painted themselves in a corner, as the OP suggests. If Peterman plays, they are basically conceding a tank year and in danger of losing the room. They really can't win and they are going to look bad however this plays out. It was a colossal mistake to get rid of AJ, as middling a talent as he is. Edited September 10, 2018 by Fadingpain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 30 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said: We paid McCarron a $4M bonus, and we get to eat it. 5th rounder. Another great move by this clueless FO. He was a Bill for what, 3 months? Of course, trading for Corey Coleman was an even stupider move: he cost the Bills $3.5 million in dead cap money for a week or ten days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 20 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: Something that needs to be remembered here! This organization decided, for a variety of reasons, that Allen was not ready and he should not start this year, or at least the early part of the year. The fact that Peterman sucks and cannot be played doesn't change that fact! If Allen goes in, the organization looks like a bunch of idiots who have painted themselves in a corner, as the OP suggests. If Peterman plays, they are basically conceding a tank year and in danger of losing the room. They really can't win and they are going to look bad however this plays out. It was a colossal mistake to get rid of AJ, as middling a talent as he is. They're getting what they deserve for their incompetence. IMO, Beane was hired because he shared Russ Brandon's "money ball" philosophy. Saving some $$ seems the only rationale for trading away a veteran QB if the starter has had 2 NFL starts, and his backup is a rookie not deemed ready to face NFL defenses. He seems as incompetent at doing that as he's been in judging FA talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayjent Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 4 hours ago, BigBuff423 said: If you're really strong, and really focus I'm sure you can catch it.... You know....the sky that's falling. Buh-bye now.... Stick to being nice. You’re not good at being a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) I'm not ready to throw in the towel on the Beane/McDermott regime after one game with a second string QB having one NFL start to his credit. It looks like we were not ready and I don't rule out a lost season of growing pains. Watching the Jets and Darnold I am convinced we need to start Allen and go with him Edited September 10, 2018 by stuvian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamboBill Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said: We paid McCarron a $4M bonus, and we get to eat it. 5th rounder. The decision is even worse than i thought it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 this is Beane's mess. I don't think the coach is great but he didn't put this roster together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: Peterman is all McDermott. He loves the guy. Why? No idea. agreed . The roster is still a mess . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) McDermott maybe wrestles with his boyfriend Peterman Edited September 11, 2018 by Helpmenow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 11 hours ago, Ayjent said: Stick to being nice. You’re not good at being a dick. I suppose....and this instance, I'll listen to the expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideRightRevenge Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 I'm going to disagree with incompetence and go with blind loyalty .. hindsight 20/20 ... the signing of Star was the blind loyalty at McD & Beane to the Carolina way and wanted to recreate the "Luke Keuchly" defense in Buffalo by having a plug to let the LB's run free .. problem is Star is not the same Star he was when he came out and play has gone down stats the last few years clearly show that ... again hindsight 20/20 .. take those bucks and put in the OL .. get a large tub of goo on the cheap and put at DT to block the middle ... and let the other defensive players fly around ... but we poured the bucks into Star and took away from bigger needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 13 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Peterman is all McDermott. He loves the guy. Why? No idea. He's trying to give Allen as much time to develop before throwing him to the wolves, and might also be looking to protect him from injury having to play behind this OL. So he goes with Peterman...initially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 28 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Peterman should not be in the league. He is our starting QB. It's beyond ridiculous. The trading of McCarron was extremely premature and dumb. Six of one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Title way over blown on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk232 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) On 9/10/2018 at 2:10 AM, CamboBill said: 1) Proper coaching and scheme to get the most out of the QB and develop his confidence. 2) Functionally competent offensive line 3) Receivers who can adapt and make plays for the rookie. The OL and WR corp probably are not fixable this year but at the very least --- GO GET A FUNCTIONAL VET QB WHO CAN ABSORB SNAPS THIS YEAR AND REDUCE THE DAMAGE ALLEN HAS TO TAKE! Couldn't agree more - while I've said that Allen currently gives us the best option to win of the two QBs on the roster, it doesn't mean that we should immediately commit to Allen as our starter in Week 2. We have some glaring holes that we knew about going into the season, and unfortunately our concerns were proven true on Sunday. If you don't have an OL to protect you or a WR corps that get open, you risk developing the wrong skill set in a QB. But it's rare you can sum a team up in three bullet points - at least the offensive side of the ball. But unless some significant changes occur beyond who starts under center each week, we'll see a lot of Allen getting hit, us wondering if this is it, and receivers having balls bounce off their hands. I hope Shady still has something left in the tank otherwise first overall pick here we go. On 9/10/2018 at 5:03 AM, oldmanfan said: So it comes down to coaching what you have, and Castillo isn't exactly drawing comparisons to Mouse at this point. This is the only component missing from the OP here. Beyond the state of our OL, there isn't much talent that's left to develop out of the players that are causing issues. Ducasse is not an NFL starter, imo ever, but especially not anymore. Neither is Newhouse, and Mills fills a spot. I'd rather see Teller get some time than witness what we saw on Sunday. But the core of the issue here is coaching. Castillo should never have been hired, and should've left as soon as Incognito and Woods retired. It was remarkable he wasn't lumped into the Dennison departure, outside of the personal ties to McD. There's much work to be done here, but how about we start with a coach who understands the actual positions involved. Edited September 11, 2018 by ctk232 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamboBill Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 On 9/10/2018 at 7:03 PM, oldmanfan said: I agree about the O line. The question is , given where they were with cap space, etc, what could they have done to improve it more? I would have liked to see another draft pick spent there, but as far as FAs they simply didn't have the cash to spend. and if you read stuff from writers around the league, there is simply a dearth of good O linemen in the league right now. So it comes down to coaching what you have, and Castillo isn't exactly drawing comparisons to Mouse at this point. Agreed. At some point there has to be some accountability for the lack of on field performance by the OL. Not only performance but just simple basic effort. During Q4 of the game there was a hit on Allen and at least 3 or 4 Ravens around Allen Jawing in his ear. Where were his teammates on the line? Picking themselves up or staring forlornly at their shoes. They not only sucked --- they quit. Unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Agreed. Kyle said today McD doesn't criticize publicly. But I sure hope he did privately. The effort the other day was awful. And he and Daboll have to get Castillo in a room and tell him to get the line in gear or start looking for new employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamboBill Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 Looks like Allen is starting ... ready or not .... because our management incompetently gave away our only other alternative. Let the official derailing of this kids career begin. No blockers. No Receivers. Few who really give a damn. The good news is that Bosa looks to be out so the over under on how many times Allen gets sacked is down to 5. lol. Yuck. We can only hope and pray for the best --- that is what happens when management fails to create contingency plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, CamboBill said: Looks like Allen is starting ... ready or not .... because our management incompetently gave away our only other alternative. Let the official derailing of this kids career begin. No blockers. No Receivers. Few who really give a damn. The good news is that Bosa looks to be out so the over under on how many times Allen gets sacked is down to 5. lol. Yuck. We can only hope and pray for the best --- that is what happens when management fails to create contingency plans. Hardly. They got a 5th for a guy who will never be a starter, is barely more of a veteran than Allen, and who the Bills would be spinning their wheels with by playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remembersthegoodtime Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) Understanding incognito and wood retiring didn't help. Would been nice to fill ol/wr holes with them picks we bundled for Allen and edmunds Edited September 12, 2018 by remembersthegoodtime spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, remembersthegoodtime said: Understanding incognito and wood retiring didn't help. Would been nice to fill ol/wr holes with them picks we bundled for Allen and edmunds So you'd rather they gave up Allen and/or Edmunds for 2nd round OL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 On 9/10/2018 at 8:04 PM, baskingridgebillsfan said: this is Beane's mess. I don't think the coach is great but he didn't put this roster together. If you think Beane is making personnel decisions in a vacuum, you're nuts. McDermott has his role in all this just as much as Beane. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section242 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 The offense is a mess. I'm not sure they've got one WR who'll make the team next year. Still it's one game. I thought the offense would be bad because they've ignored it. Wasn't expecting Joe Flacco to shred the secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remembersthegoodtime Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 32 minutes ago, Doc said: So you'd rather they gave up Allen and/or Edmunds for 2nd round OL? Definitely trade them for 3 ol and 2 recievers from the rounds 2/3. Especially after wood and incognito retire. Got two many holes to patch with duct tape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I don’t really know where to put his but is anyone else a little terrified that twice Sean McDermott thought Nathan Peterman was capable of starting an NFL game? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remembersthegoodtime Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, remembersthegoodtime said: Definitely trade them for 3 ol and 2 recievers from the rounds 2/3. Especially after wood and incognito retire. Got two many holes to patch with duct tape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I don’t really know where to put his but is anyone else a little terrified that twice Sean McDermott thought Nathan Peterman was capable of starting an NFL game? I said this last year in its aftermath. I believed he was trusting Dennison and the rest of the staff as well as his own gut. That maybe the O staff wanted to do it. I think he really wanted Nate to have a shot to redeem himself and not be known as "that guy who threw 5 picks." Plus, he had a good preseason and imo did win the job. There is a pattern now of valuing.....and OVER valuing "their" guys. AJ didn't have a real chance. McD has a lot of good qualities. But I'm starting to worry that he was built to be a College Head Coach. Even the Daboll hire---which is far more consequential then the Allen pick (it is, convince me I'm wrong) is beginning to look like a hire that was...."hes just my kind of guy" rather than I need the best OC/teacher/mentor for this kid I can find. Makes you wonder what QB they thought they'd get when they hired our OC. Edited September 12, 2018 by Big Blitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, remembersthegoodtime said: Definitely trade them for 3 ol and 2 recievers from the rounds 2/3. Especially after wood and incognito retire. Got two many holes to patch with duct tape Totally disagree with you on Allen. Getting the franchise QB is the most important thing. So that wipe-out the 1st-1st rounder and the 2-2nd rounders. As for Edmunds, I'd rather take a flier on a potential generational talent. It's not like they won't have draft picks and a boatload of cash to spend next off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) Excellent post. This absolutely is organization incompetence at the highest level and with the biggest stakes given the player, the position, and the investment Bills made. It makes my blood boil that McD doesn't even have the integrity (or cajones) to actually answer questions let alone admit he F'd this up. Where's the accountability? How can you expect accountability from players when you dodge it with everyone else. Despite the initial round of Carolina retreads last year, I was pleasantly surprised by our new coach (and by extension our new GM). It looked like they had a plan to build a TEAM, not just a collection of talent. Although I didn't agree with the ridiculous use of draft capital or the actual picks, that plan still kind of made sense coming into camp. But this situation - having no playable QBs besides Allen, and then starting him WAY before he's ready - is almost fireable in my eyes. If it works out, it'll be through sheer dumb luck. Edited September 12, 2018 by VW82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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