26CornerBlitz Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) Subscription required for full access Bills Film Room: Breaking down each of the Bengals' five... Edited August 28, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 In the first vid when Groy notified of 5 on 5 he should have said 5 on 2, cause only 2 blocked. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 OK. Ducasse gets cut. Allen sits until he is ready. This looks like a 2-2 tie. He has 3 sec twice. Got to get the ball out. Now pick up another G and start the season with Dawkins/Groy/Bodine/Miller/Mills with Newhouse/Teller and McDermott backing up. Ike/DeBeers to PS. If the new G pans out and can start, either Newhouse or McDermott walks. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 On 8/27/2018 at 10:24 AM, 26CornerBlitz said: Buffalo Bills’ offensive line crumbles against the Cincinnati Bengals Sunday’s game against the Cincinnati Bengals was felt by many to be the beginning of the Josh Allen era for the Buffalo Bills. By the time halftime rolled around, Bills fans were left hoping the middle and end of the Josh Allen era will be much better than the starting line. Five sacks, not a whole lot of yards, and zero scores prompts the question, “what the hell happened?” The offensive line was a major talking point. How much of the burden do they bear? To find out, we timed every passing down where the snap to pressure (or pass) could be accurately recorded. If a pass was thrown without pressure, the timer ended at release. For a pressure, the timer ended when a defender was close enough to impact the play. Typically, this was either at about one arm’s length of Josh Allen, or in the case of a designed roll-out when the defender occupied a space that would have flushed Allen had he not already been running. This is one of those two clean pockets mentioned above. So, how bad was the line? On the recorded 16 snaps, the line averaged about 2.1 seconds of successful protection. Their best pocket of the night is the one right above this paragraph. Three snaps saw pressure in 1.5 seconds or less. The worst performance of the night saw pressure at roughly 1.25 seconds. With the regular season rapidly approaching, fans are right to be worried about the state of the offensive line. Putting this here for those who missed it the post game thread. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 minute ago, BillsRdue said: OK. Ducasse gets cut. Allen sits until he is ready. This looks like a 2-2 tie. He has 3 sec twice. Got to get the ball out. Now pick up another G and start the season with Dawkins/Groy/Bodine/Miller/Mills with Newhouse/Teller and McDermott backing up. Ike/DeBeers to PS. If the new G pans out and can start, either Newhouse or McDermott walks. Won't argue the Ducasse cut, but Bodine will get pushed back on every pass protect snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Green Lightning said: Won't argue the Ducasse cut, but Bodine will get pushed back on every pass protect snap. Yeah, we've got one stink link that is going to hurt us regardless. Bodine is the lesser of two suckages which is why we need to sign a serviceable G like Joeckel/Evans and let Groy play C. Until then this is probably our best 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) This is very illuminating. Josh definitely missed some things, but had very little to work with and even when he had time, he had pressure in his grill. I think the thing that bothers me is that the D-line was making the O-line its you know what all game and we didn't adjust at all. We didn't go to short dumps, or keeping a blocking end in, or chipping with the running backs. Our biggest pet peeve last year was a game plan that had no fluidity... I really hope we don't see that this year. I also don't like the last video where he said "failed to pull trigger" but didn't show us the downfield perspective. I could be missing it by not reading the article, but definitely need context on that. Edited August 28, 2018 by whatdrought 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 To me, it looks like the OL is completely baffled on where CIN is going, and they end up chasing the Bengals as they run into the backfield. Mills #79 completely wiffs on his block and ends up chasing his man in the first video. That's not a strength issue. That's problems comprehending zone blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Yes ideally he could have made two throws to avoid sacks, 3 of them I say werent really on him. However the fact that he is a rookie, means he will need more from time to time. For instance, he missed the one throw to 14 (Kerley?) and ideally he would have just checked it down then, but he didnt even have time for that it looked like 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, BillsRdue said: OK. Ducasse gets cut. Allen sits until he is ready. This looks like a 2-2 tie. He has 3 sec twice. Got to get the ball out. Now pick up another G and start the season with Dawkins/Groy/Bodine/Miller/Mills with Newhouse/Teller and McDermott backing up. Ike/DeBeers to PS. If the new G pans out and can start, either Newhouse or McDermott walks. This only shows the sacks though - it doesn't show all the plays where he did get the ball out and still got nailed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: This is very illuminating. Josh definitely missed some things, but had very little to work with and even when he had time, he had pressure in his grill. I think the thing that bothers me is that the D-line was making the O-line its you know what all game and we didn't adjust at all. We didn't go to short dumps, or keeping a blocking end in, or chipping with the running backs. Our biggest pet peeve last year was a game plan that had no fluidity... I really hope we don't see that this year. Which we did the first pre-season game so go figure. Maybe the just wanted to see how badly our OL straight-up sucks. Now we and everybody else knows how soft we are in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, Green Lightning said: Which we did the first pre-season game so go figure. Maybe the just wanted to see how badly our OL straight-up sucks. Now we and everybody else knows how soft we are in the middle. Maybe next time just get a bill board outside the ralph. Save the rookie some bruises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, whatdrought said: This is very illuminating. Josh definitely missed some things, but had very little to work with and even when he had time, he had pressure in his grill. I think the thing that bothers me is that the D-line was making the O-line its you know what all game and we didn't adjust at all. We didn't go to short dumps, or keeping a blocking end in, or chipping with the running backs. Our biggest pet peeve last year was a game plan that had no fluidity... I really hope we don't see that this year. I also don't like the last video where he said "failed to pull trigger" but didn't show us the downfield perspective. I could be missing it by not reading the article, but definitely need context on that. This may be foolish of me, but I truly believe that those type of adjustments would have been made in a regular season game. I believe the staff wanted tape on the plays that were run, regardless of the opposing defense's success. I also think they wanted to see if Allen's mechanics and footwork would revert under pressure, or if they would hold. And finally, I think that as the outing progressed they wanted to see how Allen would handle criticism and negative press following the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, whatdrought said: This is very illuminating. Josh definitely missed some things, but had very little to work with and even when he had time, he had pressure in his grill. I think the thing that bothers me is that the D-line was making the O-line its you know what all game and we didn't adjust at all. We didn't go to short dumps, or keeping a blocking end in, or chipping with the running backs. Our biggest pet peeve last year was a game plan that had no fluidity... I really hope we don't see that this year. I also don't like the last video where he said "failed to pull trigger" but didn't show us the downfield perspective. I could be missing it by not reading the article, but definitely need context on that. They need to get lined up faster is the main thing. Helps recognize coverage, and helps assign the blocking. Millers 3 penalties killed some drives too, since short dumps won't get you anywhere on 3rd and 7+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Almighty Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Why is it that the Bills hardly run screen plays to slow down the rush. They used it all the time with Thurman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: This may be foolish of me, but I truly believe that those type of adjustments would have been made in a regular season game. I believe the staff wanted tape on the plays that were run, regardless of the opposing defense's success. I also think they wanted to see if Allen's mechanics and footwork would revert under pressure, or if they would hold. And finally, I think that as the outing progressed they wanted to see how Allen would handle criticism and negative press following the game. I agree with this. I think gameplanning is so vanilla in the pre-season that bothering with adjustments isn't worth much. I also think Cincy just wanted to kill someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, whatdrought said: Maybe next time just get a bill board outside the ralph. Save the rookie some bruises. To tell you the truth, when I was watching the debacle, it seemed like they were testing Allen's big value prop - namely the vertical passing game, which I thought a good idea. But after a quarter of the OL getting B-slapped, you would figure they would rethink the rook's first big outing and try something more effective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, whatdrought said: I agree with this. I think gameplanning is so vanilla in the pre-season that bothering with adjustments isn't worth much. I also think Cincy just wanted to kill someone. I don't think it was that. They are just too good for the Bills up front and the line shuffling didn't help matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 minute ago, dneveu said: They need to get lined up faster is the main thing. Helps recognize coverage, and helps assign the blocking. Millers 3 penalties killed some drives too, since short dumps won't get you anywhere on 3rd and 7+ True. Short dumps don't, but having a check down option for if the line decides to take a play off (or every play in the drive) can be helpful. In a lot of these plays they were running routes that take time to develop. Even the RB was hesitating on the release for the most part and wasn't in the flat until Allen was sucking turf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 I have always thought Ducasse had blackmail pictures of Juan Castillo. Never understood the love that Juan has had for the guy, I can only assume he pushed for Beane to acquire him and feels he has a stake in the guy. Why doesn't Terry pick up a McNally type guy as a consultant for the Oline to help us make sense of all this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, Da webster guy said: I have always thought Ducasse had blackmail pictures of Juan Castillo. Never understood the love that Juan has had for the guy, I can only assume he pushed for Beane to acquire him and feels he has a stake in the guy. Why doesn't Terry pick up a McNally type guy as a consultant for the Oline to help us make sense of all this? That would be up to McDermott and Beane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Green Lightning said: To tell you the truth, when I was watching the debacle, it seemed like they were testing Allen's big value prop - namely the vertical passing game, which I thought a good idea. But after a quarter of the OL getting B-slapped, you would figure they would rethink the rook's first big outing and try something more effective. Definitely. The problem is that no protection + no seperation = sacks every time. And that's all that we had to work with. Also, when he did have time his best targets couldn't catch a cold. 3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: I don't think it was that. They are just too good for the Bills up front and the line shuffling didn't help matters. Quite possibly. That's where we would have to rely on scheme, and didn't do anything for that. I honestly am most worried about the coaching after this game. Between bad calls that went unchallenged, and lack of changes made, it just looked like a scrimmage and not a "dress rehearsal" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 28 minutes ago, BillsRdue said: OK. Ducasse gets cut. Allen sits until he is ready. This looks like a 2-2 tie. He has 3 sec twice. Got to get the ball out. Now pick up another G and start the season with Dawkins/Groy/Bodine/Miller/Mills with Newhouse/Teller and McDermott backing up. Ike/DeBeers to PS. If the new G pans out and can start, either Newhouse or McDermott walks. Depressing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFBillsfan Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 2.1 seconds of successful pass blocking is down right embarrassing. That’s literally about the time it takes to receive a shotgun snap, look and throw regardless of the coverage. ANY QB will struggle mightily with that type of pee wee football blocking. I don’t have high hopes that this improves anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd1 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: This may be foolish of me, but I truly believe that those type of adjustments would have been made in a regular season game. I believe the staff wanted tape on the plays that were run, regardless of the opposing defense's success. I also think they wanted to see if Allen's mechanics and footwork would revert under pressure, or if they would hold. And finally, I think that as the outing progressed they wanted to see how Allen would handle criticism and negative press following the game. That is some twisted thinking right there! "Hey, let's hang the baby out the window to see if he will cry..." The rookie needs an opportunity to test his wings a succeed - not be thrust to the ground. There is not much to be learned from looking in the rear view mirror while running for your life and spitting dirt from your mouth all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Definitely. The problem is that no protection + no seperation = sacks every time. And that's all that we had to work with. Also, when he did have time his best targets couldn't catch a cold. Quite possibly. That's where we would have to rely on scheme, and didn't do anything for that. I honestly am most worried about the coaching after this game. Between bad calls that went unchallenged, and lack of changes made, it just looked like a scrimmage and not a "dress rehearsal" I had some issues with that response from McD. We don’t even have a starting 5 on our OL. Basically LT is the only position set. Instead of taking the game to evaluate who to start where, we scrambled it all around for a bunch of “what if” scenarios. Seemed counter productive to the big picture. I used to have a coach that always said, “the main thing, is to keep the main thing, the main thing”. It didn’t really resonate for me until I got older and I started my own coaching career/life generally just gets more complicated. But Sunday seemed like the antithesis of this. Edited August 28, 2018 by Mango Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 50 minutes ago, dpberr said: To me, it looks like the OL is completely baffled on where CIN is going, and they end up chasing the Bengals as they run into the backfield. Mills #79 completely wiffs on his block and ends up chasing his man in the first video. That's not a strength issue. That's problems comprehending zone blocking. We have been seeing this for 3 years now and still nothing has been done to fix it...mind numbing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 57 minutes ago, whatdrought said: This is very illuminating. Josh definitely missed some things, but had very little to work with and even when he had time, he had pressure in his grill. I think the thing that bothers me is that the D-line was making the O-line its you know what all game and we didn't adjust at all. We didn't go to short dumps, or keeping a blocking end in, or chipping with the running backs. Our biggest pet peeve last year was a game plan that had no fluidity... I really hope we don't see that this year. I also don't like the last video where he said "failed to pull trigger" but didn't show us the downfield perspective. I could be missing it by not reading the article, but definitely need context on that. Quote The final sack of the first half is really a toss up. It’s 3rd and 29, so an impossible down and distance. The Bills send four into routes while the running back chips then releases. The routes appear to be vertical in nature, as most exit the broadcast view around the 10 yard mark. Allen appears to be working the two-man route combination to the wide side of the field. Bengals defensive end Willis is matched up against guard John Miller and he uses a push-pull. push-pull. Then a chop move to break free from the former Louisville Cardinal. Willis is unimpeded to the QB and he forces Allen to pull the ball down, before his teammate Carl Lawson cleans up. Quote Cause: This is a tough one because we can’t see the receivers down the field. But with over three seconds afforded to Allen and how he was under pressure the entire day, his internal clock should have gone off and escaped the pocket or thrown it away. In the grand scheme of things, it’s not a play that really hurt the offense, but within the context of this play, in my opinion, Allen is at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Great! thanks for that. I was wondering what his thoughts were on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, whatdrought said: Great! thanks for that. I was wondering what his thoughts were on it. No problem! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 You know, I do wonder too what the coaches are telling Allen. He got flack for bad mechanics coming out of school, and a lot of that had to do with him running for his life. I wonder if he has been told to stand strong in the pocket and make plays and this is curbing his natural ability to get away from this pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 28, 2018 Author Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, whatdrought said: You know, I do wonder too what the coaches are telling Allen. He got flack for bad mechanics coming out of school, and a lot of that had to do with him running for his life. I wonder if he has been told to stand strong in the pocket and make plays and this is curbing his natural ability to get away from this pressure. I'm thinking no with the three scrambles in Cleveland and another on Sunday against Cincinnati. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Starr Almighty said: Why is it that the Bills hardly run screen plays to slow down the rush. They used it all the time with Thurman. The Bills have not been able to execute or stop a screen play since Megamind Chan Gailey was coaching the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 41 minutes ago, matter2003 said: We have been seeing this for 3 years now and still nothing has been done to fix it...mind numbing I think the problems have less to do with strength and more about football smarts. The reason why Lawson and Billings had track meets on Sunday was because they were running in open space. That does fall on the players but I'd put even more blame on the coaching. The line calls are either completely wrong or the players don't understand where they need to be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Three seconds on third and 29 isn't enough time. Allen either had to throw it away or hang on a bit longer for the WR's to get past the sticks and hope the line holds up. "Analytics" would say the smarter play was to throw it away but at that point in the game, we were desperate for something to happen so I can't fault him for hanging on to it. Thank god its just preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Thanks for the breakdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 hours ago, whatdrought said: This is very illuminating. Josh definitely missed some things, but had very little to work with and even when he had time, he had pressure in his grill. I think the thing that bothers me is that the D-line was making the O-line its you know what all game and we didn't adjust at all. We didn't go to short dumps, or keeping a blocking end in, or chipping with the running backs. Our biggest pet peeve last year was a game plan that had no fluidity... I really hope we don't see that this year. I also don't like the last video where he said "failed to pull trigger" but didn't show us the downfield perspective. I could be missing it by not reading the article, but definitely need context on that. I wouldn't worry about what you see in preseason from a game plan or adjustments. Especially in a rookies first start where the gameplay was minimal to begin with. Additionally, McD said he was going to rotate the starting OL all game long trying different looks, and was intentional and not just because they were struggling. So, there is not much to take away here for adjustments or game plan analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Putting this here for those who missed it the post game thread. We may really need a green barfy reaction button. Can the folks who were saying Allen got sacked 'cuz he "hung on to the ball too long" kindly "sack up" and admit they were Wrongsville? 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: We may really need a green barfy reaction button. thats what the sad and confused faces are for Edited August 28, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, ShadyBillsFan said: I mean the reaction buttons in the lower rt corner of each post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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