National Josh Allen buzz after 1 preseason half

[hemma]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

 Friday night when Allen has Coleman tracking the deep ball instead of Foster the conversation may be mute. 

 

Really hope they have those 2 on the field at the same time.

 

I bet Daboll does, too.

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

Maybe bold for you but not for me.  I would gladly leave this board if I were wrong. On this issue I am supremely confident. Take my post and put it in your pocket. If I am wrong you can bring it to may attention so that I can act on my departure if it comes to pass. 

 

Didn't say you should, but absolute and definitive statements about things that have yet to pass like that are really ridiculous.

[transplantbillsfan]

On 8/11/2018 at 6:33 AM, Dr. Who said:

Agreed. And Transplant was so against Allen before the draft. Open mind is a good thing, folks.

 

Absolutely loathed the pick.

 

I wanted Mayfield then Darnold then Rosen or Jackson.

 

Analytics absolutely hated our pick. 

 

But this was a true scouting pick. And after we drafted him and I took the time to dive deep into Allen's history and film from middle school on up (some post-scouting), I got more and more excited about a kid that just has one of the most unique stories you're going to see for a top 10 NFL QB prospect.

Edited August 12, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[JoPar_v2]

16 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

If that is a screen shot of the first deep ball of the game from Allen then I completely disagree.

 

It was an inaccurate throw out of bounds. 

It is and you’re right. Allen led him right out of bounds. Would have taken a contortionist to get two feet in based on where the ball was delivered.

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

It is and you’re right. Allen led him right out of bounds. Would have taken a contortionist to get two feet in based on where the ball was delivered.

Agreed, though his later attempt was pretty much perfect. Maybe he was too amped up on that first one, who knows. When seen from the other angle it wasn’t really catchable in bounds, though. 

[Nihilarian]

28 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Absolutely loathed the pick.

 

I wanted Mayfield then Darnold then Rosen or Jackson.

 

Analytics absolutely hated our pick. 

 

But this was a true scouting pick. And after we drafted him and I took the time to dive deep into Allen's history and film from middle school on up (some post-scouting), I got more and more excited about a kid that just has one of the most unique stories you're going to see for a top 10 NFL QB prospect.

 

You weren't alone as I'd say about 90% of the board hated the idea of drafting Allen before the draft. Right after the Bills selected him most Bills fans here acted like they were gut shot with that pick.

 

I rejoiced when the Bills drafted him over Rosen as I had done some extensive research pre-draft on all this years QB's and fell in love with what Allen brings and not just with the arm. He wasn't the most polished QB of the bunch but had the highest ceiling. In his final year at Wyoming, he played with a bunch of rookies and carried them to an 8-5 record and a bowl win.

 

The biggest drawback everyone had with him was with his accuracy issues and then you realize he only played a full two seasons in college which should allow him to improve those accuracy issues over time. If you take the time to research it so many great QB's started out with a bad completion percentage only to improve over time.

 

Joe Montana started out with a 42.4 % and left ND with a 54.2 %. While finishing his NFL career with a 63.2%. Brett Farve was another with a horrific completion percentage in his first year at S Miss with a 40.7 % to see it rise to 54.5 in his senior year. Then finished his NFL career with a 62.0. 

 

Allen's accuracy issues mostly revolve around his footwork and he has worked very hard to improve that since he left college.

 

 

[Roundybout]

Wow, even Lolphin fans are impressed. 

 

https://finheaven.com/threads/jets-bills-draft-qbs.347076/#post-7670647

 

I watched Josh Allen's dropbacks from last night's game and I'm going to be honest:

He played well. Everyone is laughing at that play where he got clowned on on the 4th and 3, but he made some real nice throws. One of his deep shots to Foster was juuuust a bit outside (but catchable), but the other one was pretty much on the money and Foster just short-armed it.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Didn't say you should, but absolute and definitive statements about things that have yet to pass like that are really ridiculous.

I will again state my position: I am absolutely confident that Allen will not be as accurate a passer as Brees or Brady. Even it Allen's career is barely starting I will again state with absolute confidence that Allen will not be as accurate as the two HOF qbs I mentioned. 

 

As another poster stated you hated the Allen pick. And you acknowledged that you had four other qbs in this draft rated ahead of him. Now you are touting him as being capable of being more accurate than two of the most accurate passers in the history of the game. That makes no sense. 

[Mat68]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I will again state my position: I am absolutely confident that Allen will not be as accurate a passer as Brees or Brady. Even it Allen's career is barely starting I will again state with absolute confidence that Allen will not be as accurate as the two HOF qbs I mentioned. 

 

As another poster stated you hated the Allen pick. And you acknowledged that you had four other qbs in this draft rated ahead of him. Now you are touting him as being capable of being more accurate than two of the most accurate passers in the history of the game. That makes no sense. 

Those are 2 of the most accurate QBs ever.  To expect that is ridiculous.  Heck Mayfield doesnt have that expectation.  No after seeing him play he is not inaccurate.  He is the purest thrower Buffalo may have ever had.  If Buffalo can coach him up and get him up to speed with the mental side he could be a franchise qb.

[Boatdrinks]

14 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I will again state my position: I am absolutely confident that Allen will not be as accurate a passer as Brees or Brady. Even it Allen's career is barely starting I will again state with absolute confidence that Allen will not be as accurate as the two HOF qbs I mentioned. 

 

As another poster stated you hated the Allen pick. And you acknowledged that you had four other qbs in this draft rated ahead of him. Now you are touting him as being capable of being more accurate than two of the most accurate passers in the history of the game. That makes no sense. 

Not exactly going out on a limb to state that Allen won’t be as accurate as two supremely accurate HOF QBs. Not sure why some are making that out to be some bold proclamation. We already know that the odds are against it. He can still be a franchise NFL QB though. 

[Shaw66]

22 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I will again state my position: I am absolutely confident that Allen will not be as accurate a passer as Brees or Brady. Even it Allen's career is barely starting I will again state with absolute confidence that Allen will not be as accurate as the two HOF qbs I mentioned. 

 

 

John

 

We heard you, and we get that you feel that way.   And I'm not here to argue with you, because you're entitled to your opinion. 

 

Most of the recent comments in response to you have simply been saying that we aren't willing to state with absolute confidence much of anything about how the guy will perform several years from now.  We aren't arguing with you, although we do wonder how one can be so certain about that.   

 

Tom Brady was a MUCH worse prospect coming out of college than Allen and if asked, MILLIONS of football fans would have said with absolute confidence that he would never become one of the greatest QBs in the history of the game.  The absolute confidence of those millions of fans had absolutely nothing to do with what Brady became, and your absolute confidence, right or wrong, has nothing to do with what Allen will become.  

14 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Not exactly going out on a limb to state that Allen won’t be as accurate as two supremely accurate HOF QBs. Not sure why some are making that out to be some bold proclamation. We already know that the odds are against it. He can still be a franchise NFL QB though. 

Odds are one thing; certainty in predicting the future is quite another. 

[Norcalbillsfan]

Is it just me or is it only Bill's fans that want Allen to succeed. I mean obviously we want a franchise QB, but I feel like the entire NFL wants him to fail, even some  analysts refer to him and start laughing like hes a joke. One podcast actually said " only Bill's fans would be excited about a qb that isn't good at throwing a football" and he got the lowest grade on pre season performance out of rookie QBs. Lamar looked lost and no confidence when it came to passing, but of course he looked awesome scrambling and everyone thinks hes the future of the ravens. I dont get it.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

Is it just me or is it only Bill's fans that want Allen to succeed. I mean obviously we want a franchise QB, but I feel like the entire NFL wants him to fail, even some  analysts refer to him and start laughing like hes a joke. One podcast actually said " only Bill's fans would be excited about a qb that isn't good at throwing a football" and he got the lowest grade on pre season performance out of rookie QBs. Lamar looked lost and no confidence when it came to passing, but of course he looked awesome scrambling and everyone thinks hes the future of the ravens. I dont get it.

 

...realistically, the "17 year drought" galvanized the national urinalists to use Bflo as their dart board....and a cursory review of the band of misfits, unqualifieds, "over the hill gang with new tires", etc calling the shots, rightfully so...the organization post Polian was "F Troop" IMO......despite the "playoff schneid" being broken, they are and will continue to be luke warm to the "Mc Trio (McBeane, McD & McDaboll)".....I happen to like the trio as potentially equal to if not better than the Polian era and could give a rat's azz what the hell they think....

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

I will again state my position: I am absolutely confident that Allen will not be as accurate a passer as Brees or Brady. Even it Allen's career is barely starting I will again state with absolute confidence that Allen will not be as accurate as the two HOF qbs I mentioned. 

 

As another poster stated you hated the Allen pick. And you acknowledged that you had four other qbs in this draft rated ahead of him. Now you are touting him as being capable of being more accurate than two of the most accurate passers in the history of the game. That makes no sense. 

 

Capable, yes.

 

Absolutely will OR will not, absolutely ridiculous--and that, in fact, is what makes no sense.

Edited August 12, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[MAJBobby]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

If that is a screen shot of the first deep ball of the game from Allen then I completely disagree.

 

It was an inaccurate throw out of bounds. 

 

It was and how is it out of bounds when clearly he is IN BOUNDS with ball in hand ans one foot down. 

 

The WR drifted on his route. 

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea.

 

The second deep ball should've been a TD. The first one was a bad throw out of bounds.

 

Not sure why people can't just call it like it is instead of fabricate things to make him look better. 

 

I dont have an end zone view. If I did I would be able to tell when Foster started Drifting his route ans where the Ball was delivered. But as I said I dont have endzone view of it. 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Not exactly going out on a limb to state that Allen won’t be as accurate as two supremely accurate HOF QBs. Not sure why some are making that out to be some bold proclamation. We already know that the odds are against it. He can still be a franchise NFL QB though. 

You concisely state my position. I'm not diminishing Allen as a prospect. i like him and believe he will be a good franchise qb for us. As you described it I'm not making a bold prediction as much as I am stating the obvious. The circular discussions I seem to be having has run its course. There isn't much I can add to what I have already said. 

[xxxxxxxx]

3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

You weren't alone as I'd say about 90% of the board hated the idea of drafting Allen before the draft. Right after the Bills selected him most Bills fans here acted like they were gut shot with that pick.

 

I rejoiced when the Bills drafted him over Rosen as I had done some extensive research pre-draft on all this years QB's and fell in love with what Allen brings and not just with the arm. He wasn't the most polished QB of the bunch but had the highest ceiling. In his final year at Wyoming, he played with a bunch of rookies and carried them to an 8-5 record and a bowl win.

 

The biggest drawback everyone had with him was with his accuracy issues and then you realize he only played a full two seasons in college which should allow him to improve those accuracy issues over time. If you take the time to research it so many great QB's started out with a bad completion percentage only to improve over time.

 

Joe Montana started out with a 42.4 % and left ND with a 54.2 %. While finishing his NFL career with a 63.2%. Brett Farve was another with a horrific completion percentage in his first year at S Miss with a 40.7 % to see it rise to 54.5 in his senior year. Then finished his NFL career with a 62.0. 

 

Allen's accuracy issues mostly revolve around his footwork and he has worked very hard to improve that since he left college.

 

 

Here's the problem, from a research perspective. 

His completion percentage was still below 50 and he was against a vanilla D. 

You can cherry pick all the great QB's you like, but you really need to look at a larger sample size. There haven't been many, if any, QB's who have been able to improve upon a sub 60 per cent college completion percentage in the pros who were drafted in the last decade. Your looking at exceptions, not likely outcomes. That was the reasoning against drafting Allen, as a QB needs to hit at least 60 per cent to be able to start in the league (in today's pass happy era) and most rookies see an immediate drop in completion percentage in the NFL, and sometimes it never goes back up.

I get that your excited, but if you want to argue stats you can't just cherry pick from the greats who played during a time when passes were less frequent due to different pass interference rules.There are very good reasons to be concerned with his accuracy, and people who are concerned are doing there research. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by MURPHD6

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Those are 2 of the most accurate QBs ever.  To expect that is ridiculous.  Heck Mayfield doesnt have that expectation.  No after seeing him play he is not inaccurate.  He is the purest thrower Buffalo may have ever had.  If Buffalo can coach him up and get him up to speed with the mental side he could be a franchise qb.

Since Allen was in the draft pool with the other high end prospects I considered him to be not only a legitimate franchise qb prospect but beyond that a very good franchise qb prospect. It's not a slight to not believe that he will be as accurate as two of the most accurate qbs in modern history. I really don't see what the controversy is about. 

[HamSandwhich]

16 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Since Allen was in the draft pool with the other high end prospects I considered him to be not only a legitimate franchise qb prospect but beyond that a very good franchise qb prospect. It's not a slight to not believe that he will be as accurate as two of the most accurate qbs in modern history. I really don't see what the controversy is about. 

How was Brees his first few years?  Franchise QB material?

[IgotBILLStopay]

12 hours ago, Foxx said:

didn't Phil Simms have the higest completion percentage in the Superbowl?

yes it is Simms

[GoodHands15]

Just now, IgotBILLStopay said:

yes it is Simms

 

Thank you

 

[Shaw66]

41 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Since Allen was in the draft pool with the other high end prospects I considered him to be not only a legitimate franchise qb prospect but beyond that a very good franchise qb prospect. It's not a slight to not believe that he will be as accurate as two of the most accurate qbs in modern history. I really don't see what the controversy is about. 

Makes sense to me.  Legitimate franchise qb is what he was and still is.  

[xxxxxxxx]

48 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Since Allen was in the draft pool with the other high end prospects I considered him to be not only a legitimate franchise qb prospect but beyond that a very good franchise qb prospect. It's not a slight to not believe that he will be as accurate as two of the most accurate qbs in modern history. I really don't see what the controversy is about. 

The controversy is over unrealistic fan expectations leading to pressure put on an organization to play a rookie QB too early because he was a high pick and to ruin said QB by doing so.

 

Let the kid develop and be happy if he gets his percentage to 60% in a year or two. Its that simple, really.

Edited August 13, 2018 by MURPHD6

[GoodHands15]

All I want is 1 snap with the 1st team, flea flicker from Shady to Allen right into Coleman’s &$@$ing surgically repaired bread basket....while Zay Jones blocks downfield. That’s it. I don’t care. This is supposed to be entertainment. Give me some of that. I want it now...

[Johnny Hammersticks]

I don’t believe Beane/McD will succumb to “fan pressure” in any way.  Allen will play if he shows he is the best QB and gives us the best chance to win.  After today’s practice, I believe that Allen will at least be given a chance to demonstrate that he deserves to be the starter.  

 

For me, I really need to see what he does with a better o-line out there.  His protection was not good last Thursday.  

 

 

[Shaw66]

46 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

The controversy is over unrealistic fan expectations leading to pressure put on an organization to play a rookie QB too early because he was a high pick and to ruin said QB by doing so.

 

Let the kid develop and be happy if he gets his percentage to 60% in a year or two. Its that simple, really.

That's not what the controversy was over at all.  It was simply about John's view that Allen will never be accurate. 

 

I don't see anyone saying to play Allen too early.  

 

It's completely clear when Allen is going to play, and it has very little to do with his completion percentage.   He'll play when he's the QB who gives the Bills the best chance to win.  That could be in four weeks against Baltimore, it could be in the middle of the 2018 season, it could be at the beginning of the 2019 season, it could be never.  

 

However, to my eyes, he'll be starting sooner rather later.  If he's completing 58% of his passes and averaging 8.5 yards per attempt, he'll start over McCarron dinking and dunkin for a 62% completion percentage and 6.8 yards per attempt.  A four percentage point difference in completion percentage amounts to 1 and occasionally 2 additional completions a game.   IF your QB is throwing it downfield, the extra yardage he gets more than makes up for one more 6 yard dumpoff.  

29 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I don’t believe Beane/McD will succumb to “fan pressure” in any way.  Allen will play if he shows he is the best QB and gives us the best chance to win.  After today’s practice, I believe that Allen will at least be given a chance to demonstrate that he deserves to be the starter.  

 

Pretty simple, isn't it?  

[transplantbillsfan]

8 hours ago, Mat68 said:

After Thursday night, if you are questioning Allen's accuracy you either didn't watch the game or have blind hatred for Allen.  He has the tools be one the purest passers in the league.  He made throws that really only Rodgers could complete.  I'm not sure if the game is slowed down enough to warrant starting week 1 but when he does look out.  Friday night when Allen has Coleman tracking the deep ball instead of Foster the conversation may be mute.  Foster pulls in either deep TD the national media is praising Allen as the steal of the draft.  The stats looked like he is inaccurate.  When really he had a guy give up on a route, and short arm another.  

 

Exactly.

 

He missed 9 passes.

 

2 were blatant drops that should have been caught.

 

He'd have a 58% completion % with just those 2 catches.

 

Of the 3 bombs to Foster that were incomplete, 2 of those could have easily been catches and TDs. The 1st one absolutely should have been. Foster turned his head to look back at the QB while running the moment he passed the DB and ran for 30+ yards looking backwards and the ball STILL basically hit his fingertips. Try running 30 yards looking backwards. That was on Foster. The other bomb Foster just stopped running at one point because he thought Allen was sacked.

 

If Foster catches just one of those 2 passes and the 2 blatant drops are caught, Allen has a 63% completion %. If both are caught, he's 68.4%.

 

All while throwing downfield and throwing for another TD or 2.

 

Allen was accurate in that game. That's a great example of stats lying.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, GoodHands15 said:

All I want is 1 snap with the 1st team, flea flicker from Shady to Allen right into Coleman’s &$@$ing surgically repaired bread basket....while Zay Jones blocks downfield. That’s it. I don’t care. This is supposed to be entertainment. Give me some of that. I want it now...

 

That sounds more like a Rex thing. Why just beat them when we can try to trick them? Not a big fan of that line of thinking in general. 

[GoodHands15]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

That sounds more like a Rex thing. Why just beat them when we can try to trick them? Not a big fan of that line of thinking in general. 

 

Oh I don’t even care if it’s completed to be honest.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Dude, catching that deep ball and staying in bounds was virtually impossible. 

 

It was a bad throw. While foster had way too many drops, that one was not on him. It was a bad throw by Allen. It's ok. 

 

Yeah, he missed by a few feet on a long ball over the outside shoulder in his first preseason action. That’s fine.  I can live with what I saw, and pray for progress. 

[transplantbillsfan]

Friday Allen gets 1st team reps, and today this observation from Faurburn:

It's getting interesting, folks

[Augie]

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Friday Allen gets 1st team reps, and today this observation from Faurburn:

It's getting interesting, folks

 

Yep, it’s not IF, it’s WHEN. 

[ganesh]

8 hours ago, Mat68 said:

After Thursday night, if you are questioning Allen's accuracy you either didn't watch the game or have blind hatred for Allen.  He has the tools be one the purest passers in the league.  He made throws that really only Rodgers could complete.  I'm not sure if the game is slowed down enough to warrant starting week 1 but when he does look out.  Friday night when Allen has Coleman tracking the deep ball instead of Foster the conversation may be mute.  Foster pulls in either deep TD the national media is praising Allen as the steal of the draft.  The stats looked like he is inaccurate.  When really he had a guy give up on a route, and short arm another.  

I love our boards optimism (and why not...after almost two decades we actually have a QB who can throw the ball to anywhere in the field).  The key is that (as cliche goes!)  the NFL is a game of inches...If you made that throw then you are called accurate...if you didn't, then you are labeled inaccurate... 

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Yeah, he missed by a few feet on a long ball over the outside shoulder in his first preseason action. That’s fine.  I can live with what I saw, and pray for progress. 

+1  Give him time

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Makes sense to me.  Legitimate franchise qb prospect is what he was and still is.  

fixed it!

[Domdab99]

His adjusted completion % was over 62. 

 

He’s fine.

[GoodHands15]

 

 

[MAJBobby]

22 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Dude, catching that deep ball and staying in bounds was virtually impossible. 

 

It was a bad throw. While foster had way too many drops, that one was not on him. It was a bad throw by Allen. It's ok. 

 

Maybe maybe not. I have read people saying that saw it head on say Foster was drifting. And the reality is he had his hands on it with 1 foot in bounds. 

 

You expect a WR to have the body control to get the other in bounds. I mean want to tell me Lee (a blocking TE) has better body control than a WR?

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Maybe maybe not. I have read people saying that saw it head on say Foster was drifting. And the reality is he had his hands on it with 1 foot in bounds. 

 

You expect a WR to have the body control to get the other in bounds. I mean want to tell me Lee (a blocking TE) has better body control than a WR?

 

To me the more impossible catch was the one Benjamin made.  That ball was a good yard out of bounds but the freak caught it with both feet in.  IMO better receivers catch at least one or two of those deep balls.  At least one more TD.  Allen did just fine.  Better than I anticipated.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Scott7975

[billsfan89]

Allen looked like the raw but tantalizing potential prospect he was coming out of college. It's week one of pre-season so I can't get too hyped either way about it. Allen did his thing, some good and some bad. But I think it is clear from what I watched that it is in Allen's best interest to sit for most of this season. If there is 4-5 games left and the season is lost then start Allen with a low-pressure low expectation situation benefiting him. If Allen is rushed in too early it might derail his development. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

The only way Allen will improve is playing. Sitting a mentally strong person is foolish. Allen isn’t goin to give up on himself ever. Allen knows he belongs in the League. Exposure is what will make Allen the best QB to ever play in Buffalo. 

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Allen looked like the raw but tantalizing potential prospect he was coming out of college. It's week one of pre-season so I can't get too hyped either way about it. Allen did his thing, some good and some bad. But I think it is clear from what I watched that it is in Allen's best interest to sit for most of this season. If there is 4-5 games left and the season is lost then start Allen with a low-pressure low expectation situation benefiting him. If Allen is rushed in too early it might derail his development. 

 

2 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

The only way Allen will improve is playing. Sitting a mentally strong person is foolish. Allen isn’t goin to give up on himself ever. Allen knows he belongs in the League. Exposure is what will make Allen the best QB to ever play in Buffalo. 

 

So then, everyone's on the same page?  

 

This is why I’ll leave it to the staff. Guys who actually know and speak daily to the people involved.