Position battles to watch in preseason game 1 vs Carolina

[YoloinOhio]

 

[RyanC883]

Thanks Yolo.  Good stuff as always. 

 

But is Ivory a lock to be RB2.  I'm thinking Cadet or Murphy could replace him.   I think it's an open backfield after Shady.  

 

 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

And QB, one would imagine.

[Haplo848]

What about nickel corner? Shaq vs. Murphy? Harrison Phillips vs. Washington for the 3rd DT rotation? Siran Neal as a big safety possibility? Swing tackle battle? 

 

Let's be honest, there are a bunch of competitions that are going to have a huge impact on our season. It's the reason I'm looking SO much more towards the preseason than I normally do (it definitely isn't because I'm trying to distract myself from worrying about my thesis defense in less than a week. Totally...)

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Haplo848 said:

What about nickel corner? Shaq vs. Murphy? Harrison Phillips vs. Washington for the 3rd DT rotation? Siran Neal as a big safety possibility? Swing tackle battle? 

 

Let's be honest, there are a bunch of competitions that are going to have a huge impact on our season. It's the reason I'm looking SO much more towards the preseason than I normally do (it definitely isn't because I'm trying to distract myself from worrying about my thesis defense in less than a week. Totally...)

 

Nickel is certainly one.  The reports from camp have been that it is level pegging in a relatively uninspiring competition between Johnson and Gaines thus far so I am hoping not only to see one guy grab hold of the job but also to do it on his own merits not the failure of the other.

 

Murphy won't play tomorrow. He is out with the groin. It is an opportunity for Shaq to stake a claim. When Murphy was healthy he was out there with the 1s and Shaq was with the 2s.  He has been with the 1s in Murphy's absence so there is an opportunity for him now and he isn't going to get too many more to make his mark as a Bill one suspects.  

 

I think Phillips is a pretty safe bet to be 3rd in the rotation - they have been working him both at the 1 technique and the 3 technique in camp. At this stage I think the competition is for that 4th spot.  Washington is probably still favourite but they brought John Hughes here at the start of camp and he has played some in this league and has a handful of starts.  Ricky Hately got some mentions early in camp too, though that seems to have faded.  

 

Siran Neal is clearly not seen as a viable big safety possibility at this stage - I think they see him long term as a guy who could play that hybrid linebacker / big nickel spot but when they have had three safeties on the field in camp (something they did 0% of snaps last year by the way) it has been Rafa Bush.  I think Neal is interesting to watch just in where they use him because he feels like he is a back end of the roster redshirt guy at the moment for 2018. 

 

Swing tackle is 100% up for grabs. They clearly wanted to develop McDermott for that role but he has been relegated to the 3s this week and now looks a long shot for the roster unless he balls out in pre-season. It looks like coming down to Marshall Newhouse (who they have also tried some at G) and De'Ondre Wesley but Ike Boettger is the outside on the rails and he shouldn't be counted out yet. There might legitimately be four men in this fight.  

 

 

7 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Agree with Sal on:

 

starting centre (after QB this is the biggest battle)

No 3 RB - I think it is one of Cadet or Murphy. Special teams could well be a deciding factor.

WR - As I keep saying I think Holmes is safe but as that back end and core ST guy - the spots for guys to play a lot at WR are open and there is probably 3 to shoot for (though likely 2 once Coleman is full speed).

4th safety - I didn't have Marlowe having a shot now I have him as the favourite for that 4th spot. Going to be interesting. 

 

At Tight End however, I have to believe that O'Leary is safe. He performed well last season and he blocks better than most. I think the battle for the #3 job is real. Jason Croom is the leader in that particular clubhouse for me at this point on everything I have read and heard but I believe these games will ultimately determine who gets the job.  

[Fadingpain]

I hear there's a position battle going on at QB too that is vaguely important to the team's success.

 

[Chandler#81]

I wanna see the male cheerleaders battle -as in FIGHT!

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Fadingpain said:

I hear there's a position battle going on at QB too that is vaguely important to the team's success.

 

 

As Kirby keeps saying though it isn't a real battle. It's a battle for who takes the first snap v Baltimore (barring a Rex Ryan "watch this go for a touchdown" trick play).  The job is Josh Allen's job. The question is when, not if.  

[Paul Costa]

9 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

Thanks Yolo.  Good stuff as always. 

 

But is Ivory a lock to be RB2.  I'm thinking Cadet or Murphy could replace him.   I think it's an open backfield after Shady.  

 

 

Ivory’s contract is totally guaranteed. $2.5 Million I think. He’s going nowhere. He’s also having a solid camp.

[Soda Popinski]

Definitely going to watch Shaq and see if he's going to push for the starting job.   DT behind Kyle/Star/Phillips is wide open.   Be nice to see some WRs step up and do something.  

 

And I cannot wait to see that Allen kid.  And Edmunds.   

 

Oh and everyone please, remember last preseason???  Where White got beat like a drum regularly for 4 games???   Don't put stock in the preseason to an extent.   He really struggled, but once the season started IDK what they did but he went crazy.  

Edited August 8, 2018 by Soda Popinski

[Royale with Cheese]

I think WR is most intriguing because it's so open still.

C is down to Bodine/Groy.

DE is set for starters, interested to see if Shaq can continue his positive play.  Need a solid rotation.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

If Jordan Mills is handing out 'Welcome Wagon' brochures, it might be a good time to examine depth at the position.

[YoloinOhio]

9 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

Thanks Yolo.  Good stuff as always. 

 

But is Ivory a lock to be RB2.  I'm thinking Cadet or Murphy could replace him.   I think it's an open backfield after Shady.  

 

 

I saw a report from one of the guys watching camp that Ivory has looked really good and fast. I’m excited to see him play. But cadet and Murphy are different types of RBs ... almost like hybrid WR/RB

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I saw a report from one of the guys watching camp that Ivory has looked really good and fast. I’m excited to see him play. But cadet and Murphy are different types of RBs ... almost like hybrid WR/RB

 

Did Ivory lose a good amount of weight this offseason?  I think I remember hearing something like that but I do drink a lot so my memory is as reliable as Percy Harvin.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Soda Popinski said:

Definitely going to watch Shaq and see if he's going to push for the starting job.   DT behind Kyle/Star/Phillips is wide open.   Be nice to see some WRs step up and do something.  

 

And I cannot wait to see that Allen kid.  And Edmunds.   

 

Oh and everyone please, remember last preseason???  Where White got beat like a drum regularly for 4 games???   Don't put stock in the preseason to an extent.   He really struggled, but once the season started IDK what they did but he went crazy.  

 

Did he? I don't remember White getting beaten in pre-season.  You sure you are not confusing with Ronald Derby a few years ago? He did get beaten relentlessly in pre-season then come out and star as a rookie once the serious stuff started. 

[Soda Popinski]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Did he? I don't remember White getting beaten in pre-season.  You sure you are not confusing with Ronald Derby a few years ago? He did get beaten relentlessly in pre-season then come out and star as a rookie once the serious stuff started. 

No it was white, he was beat for a couple of touchdowns in the preseason and quite a few receptions.  He was right there and it was very Darby-esque the way he struggled but when the season started he turned it on 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Soda Popinski said:

No it was white, he was beat for a couple of touchdowns in the preseason and quite a few receptions.  He was right there and it was very Darby-esque the way he struggled but when the season started he turned it on 

 

I honestly don't remember that. Maybe I have completely blanked it but in my memory he had a good pre-season last year. 

[Soda Popinski]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I honestly don't remember that. Maybe I have completely blanked it but in my memory he had a good pre-season last year. 

there was a lot going on in the preseason last year, Watkins and Darby both gone, Matthews and Gaines both in, the boards were spinning out of control.   

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:

there was a lot going on in the preseason last year, Watkins and Darby both gone, Matthews and Gaines both in, the boards were spinning out of control.   

 

I have just consulted my good night / bad night threads from 2017 - your 2018 series starts Friday morning TBD - be excited! I obviously saw it different to you at the time because I called out the starting secondary in my "good night" sections twice out of the first 3 pre-season games.  

[Soda Popinski]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have just consulted my good night / bad night threads from 2017 - your 2018 series starts Friday morning TBD - be excited! I obviously saw it different to you at the time because I called out the starting secondary in my "good night" sections twice out of the first 3 pre-season games.  

maybe it was just my perception.    

[TigerJ]

To any Bills fan who thinks about it, almost every matchup Sal mentions is a no brainer, or close to it.  I can see someone thinking Chris Ivory is not a lock for #2 RB, tho I take Sal's side on that one too.  I'm not criticizing Sal for stating the obvious.  His job is to cover any aspect of the Bills that he can whether obvious or not.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Soda Popinski said:

maybe it was just my perception.    

 

I'm certainly not saying your perception was wrong - I don't remember anything specific about those games (or almost any pre-season game ever) so I have no basis to argue from.  I didn't remember it being my perception at the time and seemingly from my Good Night / Bad Night posts I must have thought he was doing okay. 

 

But your point is valid. People looking good or bad in pre-season matters very little when the season comes round. 

[Soda Popinski]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm certainly not saying your perception was wrong - I don't remember anything specific about those games (or almost any pre-season game ever) so I have no basis to argue from.  I didn't remember it being my perception at the time and seemingly from my Good Night / Bad Night posts I must have thought he was doing okay. 

 

But your point is valid. People looking good or bad in pre-season matters very little when the season comes round. 

I think people don't recognize what the preseason really is.  It's football but in it's barest sense.   No disguised coverages, no blitz packages, no gameplanning.   It's blocking and tackling and base defense.   It's all about evaluating your 2s and 3s it's and getting the rust off the 1s without getting them injured.  

 

I want to see Allen throw the ball around.  I want to see Harrison Phillips in 1 on 1 battles on the interior.   I want to see Edmunds look like he knows what he's doing, but I won't lose my mind if things don't look sharp as a tack, especially in game 1. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Soda Popinski

[eball]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm certainly not saying your perception was wrong - I don't remember anything specific about those games (or almost any pre-season game ever) so I have no basis to argue from.  I didn't remember it being my perception at the time and seemingly from my Good Night / Bad Night posts I must have thought he was doing okay. 

 

But your point is valid. People looking good or bad in pre-season matters very little when the season comes round. 

 

Generally true, but I think for QBs you need to see solid decision-making.  They may not be able to control who is blocking in front of them or who is catching the ball, but they need to be making (mostly) correct decisions.

[dollars 2 donuts]

I know Croom has been coming on lately (or at least that's what I thought I heard), but is there really a battle for 2nd string TE?

 

I don't even think it's O-Leary's to lose...it's just plain O'Leary's.

[Cripple Creek]

11 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

And QB, one would imagine.

I’d toss in OG as well, but QB is the correct answer.

[Elite Poster]

8 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

I know Croom has been coming on lately (or at least that's what I thought I heard), but is there really a battle for 2nd string TE?

 

I don't even think it's O-Leary's to lose...it's just plain O'Leary's.

 

The tight ends not named O'Leary have been practicing really well. Don't sleep on Lee. A ton of connections with Allen.

[ctk232]

9 hours ago, Haplo848 said:

What about nickel corner? Shaq vs. Murphy? Harrison Phillips vs. Washington for the 3rd DT rotation? Siran Neal as a big safety possibility? Swing tackle battle? 

 

Let's be honest, there are a bunch of competitions that are going to have a huge impact on our season. It's the reason I'm looking SO much more towards the preseason than I normally do (it definitely isn't because I'm trying to distract myself from worrying about my thesis defense in less than a week. Totally...)

It might be due to the end of the playoff drought, or the younger talent and changes made despite our postseason appearance - but I, too, am looking at the preseason with more attention. It's a weird feeling...

 

Best of luck on your defense!

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

17 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

(read the first post only)

 

Sal doesn't mention THE most important battle.   what the hell 

[RyanC883]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I saw a report from one of the guys watching camp that Ivory has looked really good and fast. I’m excited to see him play. But cadet and Murphy are different types of RBs ... almost like hybrid WR/RB

 

Encouraging that Ivory looks good.  Having him back at his normal level gives a nice one-two punch.  Cadet I think has a bit of hammer to his running style, but I agree he is best used as hybrid WR/RB like Murphy.  

18 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

(read the first post only)

 

Sal doesn't mention THE most important battle.   what the hell 

 

perhaps too obvious??

[Uncle Joe]

11 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

Oh and everyone please, remember last preseason???  Where White got beat like a drum regularly for 4 games???   Don't put stock in the preseason to an extent.   He really struggled, but once the season started IDK what they did but he went crazy.  

 

9 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

No it was white, he was beat for a couple of touchdowns in the preseason and quite a few receptions.  He was right there and it was very Darby-esque the way he struggled but when the season started he turned it on 

 

I don't remember him getting beat like a drum in your first post...more like you 2nd post where he was right there in position but didn't finish.

It was basically baptism by fire for the rookie thrown in the starting role.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

21 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

Thanks Yolo.  Good stuff as always. 

 

But is Ivory a lock to be RB2.  I'm thinking Cadet or Murphy could replace him.   I think it's an open backfield after Shady.  

 

 

 

Ivory is no slouch 

[Kirby Jackson]

Good stuff Yolo!! I’m excited for this game and this year. It is weird because I don’t think that the Bills will be very good. I just keep looking at where things are heading and think that the Bills are well on their way (if Allen is good). The defense could be dominant and the young QB is in place. The Patriots are nearing the end. We could be looking at home playoff games within the next 2-3 years. That means you are a legit contender. That’s exciting.

[Fadingpain]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

As Kirby keeps saying though it isn't a real battle. It's a battle for who takes the first snap v Baltimore (barring a Rex Ryan "watch this go for a touchdown" trick play).  The job is Josh Allen's job. The question is when, not if.  

Of course it's Allen job, but as you say, we don't know when his first day on the job is going to be.

 

I do think there's a legitimate competition for who starts Game 1 in Baltimore.  For me, it's all about QB and that is all I want to focus on in the preseason.  The rest is a footnote.

 

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

6 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

(read the first post only)

 

Sal doesn't mention THE most important battle.   what the hell 

I might have an unpopular opinion here but I’m not sure it’s much of a race. I think AJ is going to start the season and they know that. Josh has looked ok (better than i thought i would, frankly) but I don’t think they believe he’s ready to get thrown in there game 1 and I agree with that approach. However, if AJ gets hurt or falls on his face and it’s 5-6 games in... I wouldn’t be surprised to see Josh leapfrog Nate and just get the party started. Might as well depending on his progress to that point. Jmo 

 

 

AJ is no world beater but if the other components - running game, D are playing well, he can manage a game. Josh is on a different level talent wise but just think he needs some time. 

 

Most importantly  they are building a young core with a QB, LT, CB and MLB in place... will draft their pass rusher in 2019...arguably the most critical positions in place... it’s pretty exciting 

Edited August 9, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 8/7/2018 at 10:50 PM, RyanC883 said:

Thanks Yolo.  Good stuff as always. 

 

But is Ivory a lock to be RB2.  I'm thinking Cadet or Murphy could replace him.   I think it's an open backfield after Shady. 

 

I don't think the Bills signed him fully guaranteed $1M, plus an additional $1.75M in signing and workout bonuses, to make him the 3rd string.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[CommonCents]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Preaseason is a good time to evaluate rookie running backs for fantasy. Outside of that I will take the pledge. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

20 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

there was a lot going on in the preseason last year...the boards were spinning out of control.   

So, just another day in the neighbourhood we call TBD.  ?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I might have an unpopular opinion here but I’m not sure it’s much of a race. I think AJ is going to start the season and they know that. Josh has looked ok (better than i thought i would, frankly) but I don’t think they believe he’s ready to get thrown in there game 1 and I agree with that approach. However, if AJ gets hurt or falls on his face and it’s 5-6 games in... I wouldn’t be surprised to see Josh leapfrog Nate and just get the party started. Might as well depending on his progress to that point. Jmo 

 

 

AJ is no world beater but if the other components - running game, D are playing well, he can manage a game. Josh is on a different level talent wise but just think he needs some time. 

 

Most importantly  they are building a young core with a QB, LT, CB and MLB in place... will draft their pass rusher in 2019...arguably the most critical positions in place... it’s pretty exciting 

Oh I agree.  I've been saying that since they signed him.  

AJ #1, Keep Nate the #2 through at least half the season to give Josh time to learn and acclimate to the NFL and watch the speed of the game.  

 

If McDermott sticks to his guns about not putting a rookie out there too soon then imo Josh won't see the field in the regular season unless things get really really bad.  (like the 4 game skid last season) 

 

I too think he can manage the game with a solid running game and a good defense to back the team up.