Prediction: Nathan Peterman Bills Starting QB Wk. 1 vs. Ravens

[Norcalbillsfan]

On 6/15/2018 at 10:39 PM, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

McD did a great job of sticking with tyrod even if he "didn't want Tyrod there at all". It's year one.. you can only make so many personell changes (and he gutted the roster.. made a ton) 

 

I always harp on coaches swimming upstream, refusing to play with the cards they are dealt. McD didn't do that come week 1 and beyond. We made the playoffs because our secondary carried the team with a quarterback that didn't hamper that game plan (turning over, losing field position, throwing 5 picks)

 

We're speculating that Dennison pushed McD to start Pete. He could have sacked up and vetoed the idea to give us a remote chance of winning that game. 

 

I also do not care when Peterman starts. Sure he was horrible against a constant pass rush. Mind you that was happening Jets, Saints, and Chargers. So why are we creating the narrative poor Peterman had an unlucky timing in his first start.

 

It's the NFL. Any given Sunday the pass rush can be a bad day. Guarantee any coach with a peanut brain would have blitzed the living hell out of rook version Pete. THE CHARGERS DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE DAMN PLAYOFFS. don't tell me that pass rush ruined every quarterback they played. Pete lost the game. I know some rooks that don't lose the game by 1st quarter. they are aware they aren't running the show, have a unit that can carry the team and don't impede that. It was honestly the worst football IQ I've ever seen. Peterman is more talented than Tuel by miles, no situation awareness at all. Some coach had to tell him "you're going to have a rough pass rush, take the sack and don't force it."

 

Was the Chargers a bad game for Peterman to start? Crocodile tears here. It's one game. Peterman improved. But i can't stand the narrative that poor Peterman had to start against the Chargers. So we can pick and choose easy games for Peterman to play the easy games and let Tyrod handle the good teams? Good lord why not start Tyrod.. you know our designated quarterback for good defenses.. for every game. The argument is silly someone please debate me on this with serious points other than telling me "oh so you don't want Peterman to be a good QB?" No.. I just didn't want him to see the field last year short of a backup role.

So as an NFL coach and if you liked or disliked a QB prospect and you at least needed to see what he can do you would say "too bad this is the NFL, any given sunday" now go make your first start on the road against a good defense in the middle of a play off push for both teams? I'm not saying there was a perfect time to let him play but it was a terrible time to start a rookie and at least see what he has.

And "THE CHARGERS DIDNT EVEN MAKE THE DAMN PLAYOFFS" they started Peterman against the 4th best pass defense in the NFL, also 43 sacks on the season. They were 9-7, they were a good team.

I agree on not wanting him to see the feild last year, but McD didn't want tyrod for his system. He needed to find out if Peterman was the future, or go get Josh Allen in the draft.

[Bing Bong]

Dawg figure it out in practice. I get if the story is he begrudgingly accepted Dennison's insistence. But he's the boss and Dennison was fired for it. If he really felt strongly about it, sack up and vetoe that. Dennison was a moron before that game. 

 

I'm always going for win now. End the playoff drought for my sanity's sake. And I love McDermott's attitude on that regard. But essentially forfeiting that game jeapordized our chances. I do not care one bit if we want to see if we needed to draft a QB. We should have gone QB no matter what Peterman accomplished. Come draft several people crunched the numbers, and uh, 5th rounders have virtually no track record. Never understood the confidence they had in Peterman. He's a prospect. Don't start him in a crucial game.

 

New narrative going on is "Tyrod threw for 65 yards, end of story". Sure unload him. If everybody's so bullish on Peterman, draft that high first QB and see how the competition pans out the next year. We're so worried at Josh allen getting "broken", yet at the same time it was "hell throw in zPete"

 

Any given Sunday I'm implying Mills is a pass rush turnstile for ANY defense on a pass rush any given turnstile.

 

9-7 is not a world beater's record. It's not that good. We were 9-7 and nobody's saying "the bills were a good team." Why do the chargers break this mold? And Pete, study the scouting report.. weak record. Alot of sacks.. don't win it all by yourself man. You have a secondary unit to carry you. Tyrod at least knew that especially with his garbage weapons.

 

Virtually anybody outside of Buffalo thought this was the biggest joke of the season.

 

I dredged up things you probably have heard. My biggest complaint is why did McD want to know if he didn't have to draft Allen as a contingency plan. No matter how well Peterman may have played.. Draft that QB and see the competition. Short of Peterman pulling a Garoppolo, not happening, we were going to draft high. Coaches were simply too pie in the sky.

 

McD didn't need to know Peterman that specific game. Just wait for competition next year. And if all the quarterbacks suck.. well we got a taste of Peterman year 2.

 

49 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

So as an NFL coach and if you liked or disliked a QB prospect and you at least needed to see what he can do you would say "too bad this is the NFL, any given sunday" now go make your first start on the road against a good defense in the middle of a play off push for both teams? I'm not saying there was a perfect time to let him play but it was a terrible time to start a rookie and at least see what he has.

And "THE CHARGERS DIDNT EVEN MAKE THE DAMN PLAYOFFS" they started Peterman against the 4th best pass defense in the NFL, also 43 sacks on the season. They were 9-7, they were a good team.

I agree on not wanting him to see the feild last year, but McD didn't want tyrod for his system. He needed to find out if Peterman was the future, or go get Josh Allen in the draft.

 

[starrymessenger]

4 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Meanwhile we stack up a few Ls? No way. If he IS ready and clearly better, then you go with him. NOT on a oh well, aw shucks, wing and a prayer.  That goes for all 3 qbs.

 

Whoever Coach feels won the job in TC should and probably will start the season. If that's all your saying I don't disagree. And I will get behind whoever that winds up being. But if its NP and the result in the first half of the Chargers game is basically a true reflection of his ability and prospects, which is what his detractors believe, then IMO he won't be starting for very long. Either that or Coach will be shown the door.

My sense of it is that NP is better than that but I haven't seen enuf to know how much better. It may, or may not be enuf to justify giving him a starting assignment. Those who don't like him feel that they have seen enuf already and that he probably doesn't even deserve a roster spot. I wouldn't say that myself but it is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility. 

All will be revealed to the faithful but only in due course.

[eball]

9 hours ago, Wily Dog said:

 

And you of course do. 

 

Never said I did!

[BurpleBull]

18 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

So as an NFL coach and if you liked or disliked a QB prospect and you at least needed to see what he can do you would say "too bad this is the NFL, any given sunday" now go make your first start on the road against a good defense in the middle of a play off push for both teams? I'm not saying there was a perfect time to let him play but it was a terrible time to start a rookie and at least see what he has.

And "THE CHARGERS DIDNT EVEN MAKE THE DAMN PLAYOFFS" they started Peterman against the 4th best pass defense in the NFL, also 43 sacks on the season. They were 9-7, they were a good team.

I agree on not wanting him to see the feild last year, but McD didn't want tyrod for his system. He needed to find out if Peterman was the future, or go get Josh Allen in the draft.

 

As much as I'm on Peterman's side, I think too much is made out of him playing against the Chargers defense.

 

I honestly didn't even know they had a sack-happy defense until after the game. Perhaps because they didn't have much of a buzz having relocated to a new stadium.

 

Peterman just didn't have a good showing in his first start, but I'm not sure the game takes the turn it did if the first pick off of DiMarco's fingertips doesn't happen.

 

The game started with a simple completion and then another up the field to Benjamin; it seemed as though Peterman was playing within himself and the offense up to the interception.

 

After that, I think Peterman began pressing trying to redeem himself with the impact play.

 

Before the season started last season, I stated that Peterman would probably end up second on the depth chart at QB despite the other more experienced QBs brought in because he looked very comfortable playing under center, in a pro-style offense at Pitt and for putting up solid numbers during his time there.

 

So I feel like it was more McDermott having genuine faith in Peterman being able to handle the responsibility of leading the offense, than simply trying to see if they needed to draft a QB once the season ended.

 

I think that is why people are so dumbfounded as to why Peterman finds himself in the position he's in, being granted the opportunity to win the starting role.

 

McDermott still has genuine faith in Peterman...though some think it blind faith. 

 

I actually thought the Chargers game was the perfect game to have Peterman make his first start, they weren't a team on fire up to that point, but more than that he would be making his first start in front of only 25,000 people versus the usual 70,000 plus serving as the Chargers 12th man.

[3rdand12]

20 hours ago, iinii said:

Song remains the same.....

 good movie

13 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Whoever Coach feels won the job in TC should and probably will start the season. If that's all your saying I don't disagree. And I will get behind whoever that winds up being. But if its NP and the result in the first half of the Chargers game is basically a true reflection of his ability and prospects, which is what his detractors believe, then IMO he won't be starting for very long. Either that or Coach will be shown the door.

My sense of it is that NP is better than that but I haven't seen enuf to know how much better. It may, or may not be enuf to justify giving him a starting assignment. Those who don't like him feel that they have seen enuf already and that he probably doesn't even deserve a roster spot. I wouldn't say that myself but it is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility. 

All will be revealed to the faithful but only in due course.

sounds cryptic

 I like it

[3rdand12]

13 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

As much as I'm on Peterman's side, I think too much is made out of him playing against the Chargers defense.

 

I honestly didn't even know they had a sack-happy defense until after the game. Perhaps because they didn't have much of a buzz having relocated to a new stadium.

 

Peterman just didn't have a good showing in his first start, but I'm not sure the game takes the turn it did if the first pick off of DiMarco's fingertips doesn't happen.

 

The game started with a simple completion and then another up the field to Benjamin; it seemed as though Peterman was playing within himself and the offense up to the interception.

 

After that, I think Peterman began pressing trying to redeem himself with the impact play.

 

Before the season started last season, I stated that Peterman would probably end up second on the depth chart at QB despite the other more experienced QBs brought in because he looked very comfortable playing under center, in a pro-style offense at Pitt and for putting up solid numbers during his time there.

 

So I feel like it was more McDermott having genuine faith in Peterman being able to handle the responsibility of leading the offense, than simply trying to see if they needed to draft a QB once the season ended.

 

I think that is why people are so dumbfounded as to why Peterman finds himself in the position he's in, being granted the opportunity to win the starting role.

 

McDermott still has genuine faith in Peterman...though some think it blind faith. 

 

I actually thought the Chargers game was the perfect game to have Peterman make his first start, they weren't a team on fire up to that point, but more than that he would be making his first start in front of only 25,000 people versus the usual 70,000 plus serving as the Chargers 12th man.

Good points across the board Bill .

BTW Kudos on what turned out to be a hearty thread  ✔️

 

[billsredneck1]

On 6/20/2018 at 7:39 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

Yes, based on what I’ve seen my opinion of him is different than the Bills. He was still the 191st pick in the draft so a lot of other football people weren’t too high on him either.  In a QB starved league, teams had a lot of guys ahead of him: Turbisky, Mahomes, Watson, Kizer, Webb, Beathard and Dobbs. Completing less than half of your passes and being picked 6 times isn’t making those teams regret passing on him. 

 

So while some football people have a higher opinion of him than me, others probably don’t. I hope that he’s great but don’t think that he is.

so you were happy watching a 6th rd. pick who had been in the league for 5 years lead your team for 3 straight uninspiring years?

[LABILLBACKER]

23 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

As much as I'm on Peterman's side, I think too much is made out of him playing against the Chargers defense.

 

I honestly didn't even know they had a sack-happy defense until after the game. Perhaps because they didn't have much of a buzz having relocated to a new stadium.

 

Peterman just didn't have a good showing in his first start, but I'm not sure the game takes the turn it did if the first pick off of DiMarco's fingertips doesn't happen.

 

The game started with a simple completion and then another up the field to Benjamin; it seemed as though Peterman was playing within himself and the offense up to the interception.

 

After that, I think Peterman began pressing trying to redeem himself with the impact play.

 

Before the season started last season, I stated that Peterman would probably end up second on the depth chart at QB despite the other more experienced QBs brought in because he looked very comfortable playing under center, in a pro-style offense at Pitt and for putting up solid numbers during his time there.

 

So I feel like it was more McDermott having genuine faith in Peterman being able to handle the responsibility of leading the offense, than simply trying to see if they needed to draft a QB once the season ended.

 

I think that is why people are so dumbfounded as to why Peterman finds himself in the position he's in, being granted the opportunity to win the starting role.

 

McDermott still has genuine faith in Peterman...though some think it blind faith. 

 

I actually thought the Chargers game was the perfect game to have Peterman make his first start, they weren't a team on fire up to that point, but more than that he would be making his first start in front of only 25,000 people versus the usual 70,000 plus serving as the Chargers 12th man.

I think the Chargers had a 3rd or 4th ranked sack defense going into that game. If I was coach I definitely wouldn't have chosen that game to debut Peterman. And it didn't help that the online quit. The few amount of fans was irrelevant. Nate played better in the home snow Colts game. I see him making the 53.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

so you were happy watching a 6th rd. pick who had been in the league for 5 years lead your team for 3 straight uninspiring years?

I was ready to move on from Tyrod. I highly doubt Peterman ever reaches Tyrod’s career of 40 something starts, a winning record and a 3:1 TD to INT. TT has proven that he is good enough to win in this league but I don’t believe that he is good enough to win a championship. That’s why I was ready to move on. I would feel the same way if I was a Dolphins fan or Bengals fan. They too have guys that are starters but not championship caliber. I much prefer the route that the Bills went to the route that the Dolphins did. 

[billsredneck1]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I think the Chargers had a 3rd or 4th ranked sack defense going into that game. If I was coach I definitely wouldn't have chosen that game to debut Peterman. And it didn't help that the online quit. The few amount of fans was irrelevant. Nate played better in the home snow Colts game. I see him making the 53.

not only that but if he is tied with or slightly better than a.j.in camp, why wouldn't they trade or dump a.j.'s deal? nate's got the skills to start off the season on a winning note. not only do i hope he wins the opener, but he and our new defense put a clinic on a bigtime payback against the bolts week 2 at the home opener.

[3rdand12]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I was ready to move on from Tyrod. I highly doubt Peterman ever reaches Tyrod’s career of 40 something starts, a winning record and a 3:1 TD to INT. TT has proven that he is good enough to win in this league but I don’t believe that he is good enough to win a championship. That’s why I was ready to move on. I would feel the same way if I was a Dolphins fan or Bengals fan. They too have guys that are starters but not championship caliber. I much prefer the route that the Bills went to the route that the Dolphins did. 

You are so harshing here.


I have no idea what Peterman looks like under Daboll.

Odds and logic are not his friends right now. But I can wait for training camp to see what the heck is really going on with these 3 QBs.

 Any of these QBs taking time to throw to the WRs over the break ?

 : )

3 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

not only that but if he is tied with or slightly better than a.j.in camp, why wouldn't they trade or dump a.j.'s deal? nate's got the skills to start off the season on a winning note. not only do i hope he wins the opener, but he and our new defense put a clinic on a bigtime payback against the bolts week 2 at the home opener.

for the right offer i am sure they would trade both AJ and Peterman !
But i think Bills need more time to evaluate them. Nate has familiarity with MCD and the Bills.

 AJ has some more NFL experience. Both are likely learning a new system. May the best Man win !

[BurpleBull]

18 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I think the Chargers had a 3rd or 4th ranked sack defense going into that game. If I was coach I definitely wouldn't have chosen that game to debut Peterman. And it didn't help that the online quit. The few amount of fans was irrelevant. Nate played better in the home snow Colts game. I see him making the 53.

 

You can say the amount of fans were irrelevant only because of the outcome, if I'm a coach trying to ease a rookie QB into actual game action so that he isn't overwhelmed by a hostile, screaming crowd, then I'm doing it in the stadium filled with just 25,000.

 

The snow game was played at home.

[billsredneck1]

9 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

You are so harshing here.


I have no idea what Peterman looks like under Daboll.

Odds and logic are not his friends right now. But I can wait for training camp to see what the heck is really going on with these 3 QBs.

 Any of these QBs taking time to throw to the WRs over the break ?

 : )

for the right offer i am sure they would trade both AJ and Peterman !
But i think Bills need more time to evaluate them. Nate has familiarity with MCD and the Bills.

 AJ has some more NFL experience. Both are likely learning a new system. May the best Man win !

i like a.j. he had some good college experience and was never gonna get a shot to unseat dalton. however,  i think that while for the most part they have the same skill set, i feel nate has a quicker, sharper release and great ball placement. if it's anything close to a tie come the end of august, i can see them trading a.j. to a team with an injured starter or a team with a big need for a backup. i don't see them in any way starting josh the first 4 games.

[LABILLBACKER]

57 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

not only that but if he is tied with or slightly better than a.j.in camp, why wouldn't they trade or dump a.j.'s deal? nate's got the skills to start off the season on a winning note. not only do i hope he wins the opener, but he and our new defense put a clinic on a bigtime payback against the bolts week 2 at the home opener.

With the 10M wrapped up in AJ, I don't see them bailing on McCarron early. So unless he just sucks in preseason,  it's AJ's to lose. All 3 guys will get reps with the 1's....

[BurpleBull]

59 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

not only that but if he is tied with or slightly better than a.j.in camp, why wouldn't they trade or dump a.j.'s deal? nate's got the skills to start off the season on a winning note. not only do i hope he wins the opener, but he and our new defense put a clinic on a bigtime payback against the bolts week 2 at the home opener.

 

That would be some sweet redemption! Didn't even realize that game was on the schedule.

[billsredneck1]

5 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

That would be some sweet redemption! Didn't even realize that game was on the schedule.

its gonna happen. nobody's talking about it now but it will be smackdown time!.  anthony lynn will be anthony lost..and hopefully the ravens game is a win and a tune up for the new era....field. it will be the game of the year and if they kick some charger arse that will send them on the road with the winning attitude.

Edited June 22, 2018 by billsredneck1

[transplantbillsfan]

On 6/20/2018 at 11:09 AM, BurpleBull said:

 

You probably haven't gotten a response to your question because it's clear that you will disregard whatever is said that is in favor of Peterman.

 

You and others are anti-Peterman. 

 

While those who support Peterman are still able to be Pro-McCarron and Allen.

 

Actually I think Kirby's question was a pretty good one.

 

Jeff Tuel was a preseason star, much like Peterman. And he was lauded for a number of similar traits. Then when the regular season came and he faced real NFL teams, he was exposed... but not as exposed as Peterman was against the Chargers and then by Ramsey against the Jags.

 

Why is the Peterman situation so different? It's not like he's loaded with physical ability. Peterman was a late 5th round draft pick for a reason just like Tuel was a UDFA for a reason, right?

On 6/19/2018 at 8:42 AM, BurpleBull said:

 

Do you realize that Peterman as a rookie in preseason led the Bills on its only TD drive, prior to him being inserted into action with the first team offense against the Ravens? 

 

Tyrod Taylor couldn't generate a TD drive up to that point working with the 1st team and I believe he completed only 49% of his passes.

 

Peterman threw a pretty TD pass in the Vikings game, and set the Bills up for points in both the Eagles and Lions finale. 

 

Your attempt to discredit Peterman is a very empty one, that doesn't tell the whole story.

 

Your attempt to use preseason as any sort of validation for Peterman is a very empty one:

 

See EJ Manuel Preseason 2015 followed by regular season stinker in London.

[transplantbillsfan]

On 6/19/2018 at 3:12 PM, BurpleBull said:

 

But Tom Brady...

 

I won't even go there.

 

How about Marc Bulger in the 6th?

 

A pick was actually used on Peterman, what about those who weren't even drafted that went on to have solid careers?

 

Kurt Warner, Tony Romo,...

 

Peterman has his shot.

 

And all 4 of the guys you mention here were good to excellent from the very beginning.

 

None of them threw 5 INTs in their 1st start.

 

Hell, none of them threw 3 INTs in their 1st start.

 

Warner threw 2... but he also threw 3 TDs... so did Bulgaria, without the INTs.

 

Brady and Romo these ZERO INTs in their 1st starts.

 

Peterman had his shot... he epically failed... twice.

[transplantbillsfan]

On 6/19/2018 at 7:24 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Fair enough.

 

But you must've been very unimpressed with Peyton Manning too, then, yeah?

 

First three games he went 61 for 117, 52.1% completions, 2 TDs and 8 INTs with a YPA of 5.8.

 

Wait, Peterman appeared in four games. Lemme take a quick look ... yup, Peyton wasn't much better in his fourth game, 19 for 32, 1 TD, 3 INTs.

 

Plenty of rookies put up early stats that are in no way indicative of what they can eventually do. I'm not convinced yet about Peterman but I'm certainly interested, maybe even a bit excited to see what happens with him, and the other two as well. Rookies are going to tend to make mistakes.

 

1st overall pick with both physical and mental talent regarded as the most can't-miss prospect in a decade and a half with NFL pedigree playing on an absolutely atrocious team throws 1 TD and 3 INTs in a game... game #1 of his rookie year... on a team that finished 3-13 the previous year

 

Vs

 

Late 5th round QB with some mental talent but below average to terrible NFL physical talent with no pedigree coming from a relatively small college program with minor success starts game #9 of his rookie year and throws 5 INTs in a half for a team clinging to a playoff spot 

 

Jesus... what a leap.

 

 

Yeah... you're all Devil's Advocate Thurm, so not really a surprise you'd say you're excited.

 

The appropriate word, if Peterman starts, is anxious... the true definition of that word.

Edited June 22, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[Aussie Joe]

FMD... another 5 weeks of this crap until any QB throws a pass in anger...

 

NP can’t either forward or regress his case in the meantime ... would be nice for this thread to be locked until then without rehashing the 5 INT and 5th round pick another 2, 000 times...

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

8 hours ago, billsredneck1 said:

so you were happy watching a 6th rd. pick who had been in the league for 5 years lead your team for 3 straight uninspiring years?

 

2017 = Longest Playoff Drought in Sports BROKEN

 

The answer should be yes for any true Bills fan purely for the moment it happened.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

1st overall pick with both physical and mental talent regarded as the most can't-miss prospect in a decade and a half with NFL pedigree playing on an absolutely atrocious team throws 1 TD and 3 INTs in a game... game #1 of his rookie year... on a team that finished 3-13 the previous year

 

Vs

 

Late 5th round QB with some mental talent but below average to terrible NFL physical talent with no pedigree coming from a relatively small college program with minor success starts game #9 of his rookie year and throws 5 INTs in a half for a team clinging to a playoff spot 

 

Jesus... what a leap.

 

 

Yeah... you're all Devil's Advocate Thurm, so not really a surprise you'd say you're excited.

 

The appropriate word, if Peterman starts, is anxious... the true definition of that word.

 

 

 

This is a dullard's argument. I was pointing out that the first few games of a rookie's career can be awful without it proving he will be awful. Simply that. 

 

As expected of you, yet again, your first instinct is to throw up the straw man argument and pretend I was saying something I simply didn't say. Typical. I wasn't leaping anywhere. Wasn't even comparing the two as anyone reading the post without a massive ax to grind would have noticed. I was comparing their first four games. Nothing more. And I was comparing them because ...  they're comparable.

 

But since you started the comparisons, OK. You point out that Manning was the "1st overall pick with both physical and mental talent regarded as the most can't-miss prospect in a decade..." So ... what, that's supposed to mean it's OK? Makes it more forgiveable that he was a can't miss #1 overall pick while Peterman came out of Pittsburgh? It doesn't. They were both rookies extremely early in their careers making rookie mistakes. Thanks for making my point for me, that even some guys with much higher expectations look awful in their first four games.

 

And as for how horrible the Colts were, it was their defense that was awful. Their offense was actually OK despite Manning's ending the season with 26 TDs and 28 INTs and a 71.2 passer rating. The Colts were the 12th ranked offense in the league, actually. 12th in yards and 19th in scoring, which is slightly better than the 2017 Bills offense managed. In Peyton's rookie year, the Colts had Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison. And Manning still struggled badly.

 

I was pointing out that the first three to four games of a rookie's career often means dick. And I did so successfully, which wasn't difficult because it should be obvious to anyone. 

 

But if you must go there and directly compare their first games, fine, let's do it. You claim that I pointed out that Manning had a game where he threw 1 TD and 3 INT. But as I clearly pointed out, it was a great deal worse than that for Peyton.

 

Peterman's first four games: 2 TDs and 5 INTs

Manning's first four games: 3 TDs and 11 INTs

 

Rookies often suck in their early rookie appearances. Sometimes because they'll never be good enough. But anyone assuming that early suckage proves the guy will never make it is simply making a dumb mistake. Sometimes guys suck as rookies because playing in the NFL, especially at QB, is really really hard and they need time to learn.

 

And sure, I'll be anxious if Peterman starts. Did I say anywhere I'd be filled with total confidence? Anxious but a bit excited. Same with the other two. We haven't got a proven solid QB. Haven't had one since Bledsoe. Why wouldn't anyone be nervous no matter who starts at QB this year? If Peterman starts it'll be because he won the competition against a guy who's at least been solid when he had his chance in Cincy. So yeah, excited too.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Thurman#1

[billsredneck1]

12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

With the 10M wrapped up in AJ, I don't see them bailing on McCarron early. So unless he just sucks in preseason,  it's AJ's to lose. All 3 guys will get reps with the 1's....

i agree, but  any team with a need would gladly take that contract in a trade and maybe even throw a pick at us. if all things were equal they can profit from a.j. vs. nate.

 

i like them all and hope they carry 3. whoever starts...it will be easy to tell right away if a change needs to be made so....

[Wily Dog]

10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

This is a dullard's argument. I was pointing out that the first few games of a rookie's career can be awful without it proving he will be awful. Simply that. 

 

As expected of you, yet again, your first instinct is to throw up the straw man argument and pretend I was saying something I simply didn't say. Typical. I wasn't leaping anywhere. Wasn't even comparing the two as anyone reading the post without a massive ax to grind would have noticed. I was comparing their first four games. Nothing more. And I was comparing them because ...  they're comparable.

 

But since you started the comparisons, OK. You point out that Manning was the "1st overall pick with both physical and mental talent regarded as the most can't-miss prospect in a decade..." So ... what, that's supposed to mean it's OK? Makes it more forgiveable that he was a can't miss #1 overall pick while Peterman came out of Pittsburgh? It doesn't. They were both rookies extremely early in their careers making rookie mistakes. Thanks for making my point for me, that even some guys with much higher expectations look awful in their first four games.

 

And as for how horrible the Colts were, it was their defense that was awful. Their offense was actually OK despite Manning's ending the season with 26 TDs and 28 INTs and a 71.2 passer rating. The Colts were the 12th ranked offense in the league, actually. 12th in yards and 19th in scoring, which is slightly better than the 2017 Bills offense managed. In Peyton's rookie year, the Colts had Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison. And Manning still struggled badly.

 

I was pointing out that the first three to four games of a rookie's career often means dick. And I did so successfully, which wasn't difficult because it should be obvious to anyone. 

 

But if you must go there and directly compare their first games, fine, let's do it. You claim that I pointed out that Manning had a game where he threw 1 TD and 3 INT. But as I clearly pointed out, it was a great deal worse than that for Peyton.

 

Peterman's first four games: 2 TDs and 5 INTs

Manning's first four games: 3 TDs and 11 INTs

 

Rookies often suck in their early rookie appearances. Sometimes because they'll never be good enough. But anyone assuming that early suckage proves the guy will never make it is simply making a dumb mistake. Sometimes guys suck as rookies because playing in the NFL, especially at QB, is really really hard and they need time to learn.

 

And sure, I'll be anxious if Peterman starts. Did I say anywhere I'd be filled with total confidence? Anxious but a bit excited. Same with the other two. We haven't got a proven solid QB. Haven't had one since Bledsoe. Why wouldn't anyone be nervous no matter who starts at QB this year? If Peterman starts it'll be because he won the competition against a guy who's at least been solid when he had his chance in Cincy. So yeah, excited too.

 

Best post of the 47 pages

[billsredneck1]

On 6/20/2018 at 9:16 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

I keep asking (and no one is answering), how much of Jeff Tuel did you need to see to form an opinion? Do you think he deserved more chances? He was WAY better in his opportunity than Peterman. Why was it okay to write off Tuel but not Peterman? What about Levi Brown? Gibran Hamdan? Brian Brohm?

it was the pick six for tuel that had you guys bend him over and since you had so much practice on him, nate was /is irresistible. tuel could have had a chance to develop had not the regime changed and that's all there is to that.  why don't you guys live in the present for once...check it out....

 

there are 3 qbs on the roster.....2 of which are battling for the job.

peterman may actually win the job.

your opinions and snark mean jack.

i wanted a.j. to get his shot to shine but if nate gets the nod are you guys gonna leave or quit being fans? what will you do there kirby? join with tranny and some others and protest at the games.  wear 5 pick tshirts?  it is 06/22/18

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

it was the pick six for tuel that had you guys bend him over and since you had so much practice on him, nate was /is irresistible. tuel could have had a chance to develop had not the regime changed and that's all there is to that.  why don't you guys live in the present for once...check it out....

 

there are 3 qbs on the roster.....2 of which are battling for the job.

peterman may actually win the job.

your opinions and snark mean jack.

i wanted a.j. to get his shot to shine but if nate gets the nod are you guys gonna leave or quit being fans? what will you do there kirby? join with tranny and some others and protest at the games.  wear 5 pick tshirts?  it is 06/22/18

 

I still believe after all the "dust" settles, AJ will start the 1st game in Baltimore.

 

I'm waiting until the pads come on.

[Kirby Jackson]

26 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

it was the pick six for tuel that had you guys bend him over and since you had so much practice on him, nate was /is irresistible. tuel could have had a chance to develop had not the regime changed and that's all there is to that.  why don't you guys live in the present for once...check it out....

 

there are 3 qbs on the roster.....2 of which are battling for the job.

peterman may actually win the job.

your opinions and snark mean jack.

i wanted a.j. to get his shot to shine but if nate gets the nod are you guys gonna leave or quit being fans? what will you do there kirby? join with tranny and some others and protest at the games.  wear 5 pick tshirts?  it is 06/22/18

If you are questioning my Bills loyalty clearly you don’t know me. Just because I don’t think that the guy is good doesn’t change anything for me. I’ll still invest thousands of dollars following the team around the country. I’ll still watch every second of every game. 

 

I thought that that this was a place to express our Bills opinions? Sorry that people don’t like that I think Peterman sucks at football. It doesn’t matter anyways because at some point in the very near future Allen is getting the keys. We should all hope that he’s good because that’s what will ultimately determine the success or failure of this team.

[Happy]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I still believe after all the "dust" settles, AJ will start the 1st game in Baltimore.

 

I'm waiting until the pads come on.

 

I agree with this.  Hard to think otherwise.

Assuming AJ starts and Josh Allen sits and learns, what do you do with Peterman?  Keep him on the active roster or send him to the PS?  If PS, good chance some other team picks him up; I would bet the some other team is NE.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I agree with this.  Hard to think otherwise.

Assuming AJ starts and Josh Allen sits and learns, what do you do with Peterman?  Keep him on the active roster or send him to the PS?  If PS, good chance some other team picks him up; I would bet the some other team is NE. 

 

Who would take a Training Camp hero/football game choker.  There is enough film on him already to know how to stop him.  Anthony Lynn said he decided to bring max pressure after watching the Nasty Nate pre season games, you know, when he was doing really good.

 

Unless he can stop nutting up when the heat is on, he's toast anyway.

 

I'd put him on the PS.  I think he'd be safe and if not, oh well.

[transplantbillsfan]

16 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

This is a dullard's argument. I was pointing out that the first few games of a rookie's career can be awful without it proving he will be awful. Simply that. 

 

As expected of you, yet again, your first instinct is to throw up the straw man argument and pretend I was saying something I simply didn't say. Typical. I wasn't leaping anywhere. Wasn't even comparing the two as anyone reading the post without a massive ax to grind would have noticed. I was comparing their first four games. Nothing more. And I was comparing them because ...  they're comparable.

 

But since you started the comparisons, OK. You point out that Manning was the "1st overall pick with both physical and mental talent regarded as the most can't-miss prospect in a decade..." So ... what, that's supposed to mean it's OK? Makes it more forgiveable that he was a can't miss #1 overall pick while Peterman came out of Pittsburgh? It doesn't. They were both rookies extremely early in their careers making rookie mistakes. Thanks for making my point for me, that even some guys with much higher expectations look awful in their first four games.

 

And as for how horrible the Colts were, it was their defense that was awful. Their offense was actually OK despite Manning's ending the season with 26 TDs and 28 INTs and a 71.2 passer rating. The Colts were the 12th ranked offense in the league, actually. 12th in yards and 19th in scoring, which is slightly better than the 2017 Bills offense managed. In Peyton's rookie year, the Colts had Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison. And Manning still struggled badly.

 

I was pointing out that the first three to four games of a rookie's career often means dick. And I did so successfully, which wasn't difficult because it should be obvious to anyone. 

 

But if you must go there and directly compare their first games, fine, let's do it. You claim that I pointed out that Manning had a game where he threw 1 TD and 3 INT. But as I clearly pointed out, it was a great deal worse than that for Peyton.

 

Peterman's first four games: 2 TDs and 5 INTs

Manning's first four games: 3 TDs and 11 INTs

 

Rookies often suck in their early rookie appearances. Sometimes because they'll never be good enough. But anyone assuming that early suckage proves the guy will never make it is simply making a dumb mistake. Sometimes guys suck as rookies because playing in the NFL, especially at QB, is really really hard and they need time to learn.

 

And sure, I'll be anxious if Peterman starts. Did I say anywhere I'd be filled with total confidence? Anxious but a bit excited. Same with the other two. We haven't got a proven solid QB. Haven't had one since Bledsoe. Why wouldn't anyone be nervous no matter who starts at QB this year? If Peterman starts it'll be because he won the competition against a guy who's at least been solid when he had his chance in Cincy. So yeah, excited too.

 

So now I started the comparison despite the fact that I was directly responding to the comparison you made while simultaneously claiming you didn't make a comparison that you clearly made???

 

Man, you bring up straw man arguments I'm supposedly making and go on to make such an ugly one yourself.

 

Manning started his first 4 games of his rookie year, thrown right into the fire and threw 146 passes for 992 yards. He took over for a team that was ranked 19th and 20th in YPG and PPG in 1997, and helped bring them up to 12th and 19th in 1998, precisely as you point out, though conveniently leaving out the team he took over. Yeah, he threw 11 INTs in those 4 games, but this was a bad team (including offense) the previous season coming off a 3-13 campaign and Manning had the arm talent and football smarts to be the most sure-fire Franchise QB to come out in a decade and a half.

 

Peterman had half the season to sit and learn and watch before coming in and throwing a grand total of 49 passes in the 4 games you cite for a whopping 252 yards. His first live action came when the team was already blown the !@#$ out and the other D was in prevent mode. His first start was a sheer and utter historical disaster throwing 5 INTs with a 6th dropped... all in one half. Then he ended the season with this pass to Jalen Ra... I mean, Deonte Thompson:

 

 

6 Interceptions in 52 attempts along with getting himself knocked out of another game. A 7th INT that would have likely been a 2nd pick-6 dropped.

 

But the numbers really aren't what bug me the most about Peterman. It's the sheer lack of an NFL arm, and I posted that clip because you can see it there. 2 of his 6 Interceptions (plus the one that the Charger DB dropped) are because of guys knowing the kid doesn't have the arm talent to get it to the sidelines quick enough. This is about physical ability he just doesn't have... or certainly didn't at least last year. And I thought even in the preseason when posters here were praising his play I was here saying his arm looked too weak and that in regular season action defenders could and would pretty easily jump routes. Manning had the physical ability along with the mental makeup from the get-go. While his arm was never a Cannon, it was always considered "good" in his early years by NFL standards.

 

All of that disregards the pretty significant "different era" argument when it comes to how a QB like Manning or Aikman did early on vs QBs today. Back to stats alone, you just don't find QBs who are successful in the NFL start out absolutely sucking right off the bat anymore. Do you? Maybe Goff is the best example because he threw 5 picks in his first 4 games, but he also threw 4 TDs... and again, this was on 136 pass attempts, not 49. That might be the closest example there is... and yet again, it was with the 1st overall pick--a guy with all the tools, physically and mentally.

 

But if, as you claim, Peterman's improved his arm strength, I hope it's by a lot, because that could make him at least interesting. I just have a hard time believing he improved it that significantly in a single offseason.

Edited June 23, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[BurpleBull]

By Ryan Talbot

talbotrj@yahoo.com,

Contributing writer

 

Nathan Peterman was one of the Buffalo Bills' biggest surprises of the spring. The quarterback added muscle to his frame following his rookie season and seemed to be throwing the football with more velocity during OTAs and minicamp.

------------------------------------------------------------

from Rochester Democrat and Chronicle

 

The former Pitt standout is smart and looked very good in mini-camp where he showed improved arm strength and accuracy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LeGOATski]

49 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

By Ryan Talbot

talbotrj@yahoo.com,

Contributing writer

 

Nathan Peterman was one of the Buffalo Bills' biggest surprises of the spring. The quarterback added muscle to his frame following his rookie season and seemed to be throwing the football with more velocity during OTAs and minicamp.

------------------------------------------------------------

from Rochester Democrat and Chronicle

 

The former Pitt standout is smart and looked very good in mini-camp where he showed improved arm strength and accuracy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's the main knock on him. It will be interesting to see if it really shows in his game performance. 

 

Outside of that, what else is there? His composure under pressure and pocket awareness is all I can think of. Both of which can be improved at the pro level. 

 

This QB comp could get really interesting.

[BurpleBull]

16 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

That's the main knock on him. It will be interesting to see if it really shows in his game performance. 

 

Outside of that, what else is there? His composure under pressure and pocket awareness is all I can think of. Both of which can be improved at the pro level. 

 

This QB comp could get really interesting.

 

 

If that is transferred to live game action, then I don't think there's much holding him back from being able to lead the offense.

 

Knowing that you can get the ball where you want it to go with more ease, I imagine would cause your confidence as a passer to soar and allow you to focus on those other important things that go towards making a QB, a good QB.

 

Peterman doesn't have poor pocket awareness from what I can tell, he moves well in the pocket to avoid the pass rush, keeping his eyes downfield and scrambling to pick up yards when necessary or when opportunity presents itself.

 

Combine this all with better accuracy and a stronger throw, I think you've got a quality, starting QB.

 

 

 

 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

On 6/20/2018 at 9:16 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

I keep asking (and no one is answering), how much of Jeff Tuel did you need to see to form an opinion? Do you think he deserved more chances? He was WAY better in his opportunity than Peterman. Why was it okay to write off Tuel but not Peterman? What about Levi Brown? Gibran Hamdan? Brian Brohm?

If he beats out JA McCallen then he deserves more chances. He's going to have to earn it.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, BurpleBull said:

By Ryan Talbot

talbotrj@yahoo.com,

Contributing writer

 

Nathan Peterman was one of the Buffalo Bills' biggest surprises of the spring. The quarterback added muscle to his frame following his rookie season and seemed to be throwing the football with more velocity during OTAs and minicamp.

------------------------------------------------------------

from Rochester Democrat and Chronicle

 

The former Pitt standout is smart and looked very good in mini-camp where he showed improved arm strength and accuracy. 

 

As I stated a few times already, if Peterman significantly improved his arm strength, that could be a game changer.

 

But it would have to be a significant improvement.

 

And muscle-mass doesn't necessarily mean he's developed those quick-twitch muscles an NFL QB has in his arm in order to release the ball quickly and with velocity.

 

And if this is just the media watching him throw the ball around to his own teammates in shorts with no threat of being hit and using their own judgement on improved arm strength... well, I'll wait at least til the pads come on to start getting excited.

 

 

Soooo... you're SaviorPeterman, riiiiight???

 

His last post was late February. You joined during the draft... actually the day after Josh Allen was drafted was when you became a member.

 

Been to any high level business meetings lately?

Edited June 23, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

As I stated a few times already, if Peterman significantly improved his arm strength, that could be a game changer.

 

But it would have to be a significant improvement.

 

And muscle-mass doesn't necessarily mean he's developed those quick-twitch muscles an NFL QB has in his arm in order to release the ball quickly and with velocity.

 

And if this is just the media watching him throw the ball around to his own teammates in shorts with no threat of being hit and using their own judgement on improved arm strength... well, I'll wait at least til the pads come on to start getting excited.

 

 

Soooo... you're SaviorPeterman, riiiiight???

 

His last post was late February. You joined during the draft... actually the day after Josh Allen was drafted was when you became a member.

 

Been to any high level business meetings lately?

There was a thread a while ago about Peterman's training with Tom House to improve velocity. Not much detail was provided. Sounds like it wasn't about just adding muscle mass, though.

 

 

He made his career working with pitchers, but has since helped NFL QBs Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, Matt Cassell and Terrelle Pryor.

 

http://velocityplusarmcare.com/tom-house-million-dollar-arm/

Edited June 23, 2018 by LeGOATski

[billsredneck1]

14 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I agree with this.  Hard to think otherwise.

Assuming AJ starts and Josh Allen sits and learns, what do you do with Peterman?  Keep him on the active roster or send him to the PS?  If PS, good chance some other team picks him up; I would bet the some other team is NE.

yep and if we cut brandon reilly, he'll probably also go to the pats and give us nightmares for years.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Hopefully he throws another three picks against the Ravens so we can firmly put him in his spot as a back up and move on from him. 

[transplantbillsfan]

9 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

There was a thread a while ago about Peterman's training with Tom House to improve velocity. Not much detail was provided. Sounds like it wasn't about just adding muscle mass, though.

 

 

He made his career working with pitchers, but has since helped NFL QBs Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, Matt Cassell and Terrelle Pryor.

 

http://velocityplusarmcare.com/tom-house-million-dollar-arm/

 

Yeah I saw that, I'm just skeptical of how much he improved it in thread 4 or 5 months the offseason was.

 

But we shall see.