Bucky Gleason Leaving TBN After Requesting a Buyout - Jerry Sullivan and Now Tim Graham Out

[Augie]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

While the discussion went on it stagnated and the chasm grew wider. It's not surprising. 

 

I skipped ahead. It may not be surprising, but it can still be a little disappointing. Heck the best score I could muster was a 51, but I get it! I think I may be a tough grader. 

[oldmanfan]

14 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

 

because some people are fooled by mistruths repeated over and over again that finally seem believable.

Others don’t like reading inconvenient truths.

And then there are those who for some reason are suspicious of science and facts.

 

Which one are you?

 

 

Don't know about this guy but I am solidly with journalists like yourself.  The press holds peolle accountable whether a football team ir federal government.  Thank God we have freedom of the press.  

 

But it doesn't mean we can't as consumers of the press be critical.  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Did you now?  Here is the original post.  I believe you will find that exact phrase contained in it

" Have you read the column wherein Sully insinuated that Terry's wealth was just dumb luck"

 

Now, you may feel that was a misrepresentation of Sullivan's original column - and that would be a point worth making.

But to come in here and switch the contention from "just dumb luck" to "no luck involved, not one iota" is at best, a gross misrepresentation of the posts to which you're responding.

 

I won't continue, because either you're too upset to be quite rational in your approach, or for reasons of your own, you're unwilling to ack a point.

 

 

 

Man.

 

Awful thread for you too.

 

When we've lost important contributors to this forum it hasn't been because of our best posters bickering with them.

 

It was because of people like the turds chasing JW in this thread.

 

Don't even go there......you don't want to end up like LABillzfan with JW in your avatar and only discussing JW topics.? 

   

[Augie]

 

 

Heck, in my decades in banking I went through multiple mergers. There were some people I didn’t particularly like personally, who I didn’t feel were particularly good at their jobs, but they were decent people who lost their jobs. I’m still emotional about a decent guy who lost his job telling me how he went out with his wife and 6 year old daughter for some pizza and wings and the young girl asked “can we afford this daddy?” 

 

I don’t care how much you liked what they wrote. These are real people with real families. The writing is separate from the people and their families. I hope people can make that distinction. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Man.

 

Awful thread for you too.

 

When we've lost important contributors to this forum it hasn't been because of our best posters bickering with them.

 

It was because of people like the turds chasing JW in this thread.

 

Don't even go there......you don't want to end up like LABillzfan with JW in your avatar and only discussing JW topics.? 

   

I was trying to have a discussion.  JW got snarky.  But I understand he's upset.

[Delete This Account]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Man.

 

Awful thread for you too.

 

When we've lost important contributors to this forum it hasn't been because of our best posters bickering with them.

 

It was because of people like the turds chasing JW in this thread.

 

Don't even go there......you don't want to end up like LABillzfan with JW in your avatar and only discussing JW topics.? 

   

 

But I never read that post.

I included the one I was referencing, because it was focused on Promo’s reply to it.

 

And no worries, i’m not going anywhere.

 

jw

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

I was trying to have a discussion.  JW got snarky.  But I understand he's upset.

 

1. I’m usually snarky.

2. Don’t tell me how I feel because you are clueless.

3. pffft

 

jw

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

 

But I never read that post.

I included the one I was referencing, because it was focused on Promo’s reply to it.

 

And no worries, i’m not going anywhere.

 

jw

 

1. I’m usually snarky.

2. Don’t tell me how I feel because you are clueless.

3. pffft

 

jw

Why are you being so hostile to someone who is sympathetic in that you just had a couple former co-workers lose their jobs?

[4_kidd_4]

Wawrow’s got all the curmudgeons off their rockers up in here. Nicely done

[BADOLBILZ]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I was trying to have a discussion.  JW got snarky.  But I understand he's upset.

 

 

No........you claimed JW said something he did not.     He quoted Fadingpain.    He re-posted it a few posts above.

 

You are just being unaccountable.    You were wrong for even starting the argument.   

 

The next thing you know people like Plenz are piling on JW because of your bulls*t take.

 

YOU ARE BAD AT TSW.

[Peter]

6 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Pegula's wealth is largely a function of luck; that's how that business tends to work.  He has also made some public comments that are borderline racist.  That was before his handlers quickly muzzled him.

 

We don't really him speak very much anymore, do we?

 

Kim has zero experience or credentials to be running two major sports franchises.  None.

 

To suggest that she would even remotely be considered a candidate for the position, were she not the owner's wife, is absurd.  

 

Do you want the paper to spoon feed you rainbows, or provide opinion/perspective?

 

 

 

 

 

No luck was involved in Terry learning the business, deciding where to purchase land, and taking the financial risk that ended up with him becoming a billionaire.  For Sully to condescendingly suggest that it was all luck only reveals a deep seated jealousy. There is a certain amount of luck in everything we do, but Sully's take was intended to suggest that Terry did not deserve his wealth and that he did not help create it.

 

Being a good or bad public speaker has nothing to do with it.

 

Kim has more experience running businesses and now sports businesses than you, me, Sully, Bucky, and Harrington combined.  They also are smart in that they have surrounded themselves with good and qualified people.  If you have any doubt about Kim's intelligence and abilities, read Vic's recent articles.

 

Your post is a tad too personal.  I wonder. Hmmm.  As I said in another post, to paraphrase Chris Berman, no one circles the wagons like Buffalo media when one of their own is criticized.  

 

P.S. I do not need rainbows buddy, but I sure as you know what do not need someone to always find the dark cloud in the silver lining.  As for Sully's "opinions," he has essentially written a variation of the same lazy and negative Nancy column for the past several years . . . and sprinkles them with gratuitous pot shots.  As TBN told Sully, his BS columns (that he seemed to be phoning in) were bad for business.  Apparently, Sully (despite his self professed wisdom about running sports franchises) knew about as much as Jon Snow and Sergeant Schulz do about business. 

 

God bless.  

Edited May 31, 2018 by Peter

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

No........you claimed JW said something he did not.     He quoted Fadingpain.    He re-posted it a few posts above.

 

You are just being unaccountable.    You were wrong for even starting the argument.   

 

The next thing you know people like Plenz are piling on JW because of your bulls*t take.

 

YOU ARE BAD AT TSW.

No I did not.  If you look above the comment was made in an earlier post than jw is referring to.  And as I posted it was a straw man argument.  I explained my feelings about Sullivan and Gleason and asked jw a question about what he considered as professional journalism.  Which by the way has not been answered.  

 

I will continue posting and if you don't like what I post that is unfortunate.  What I would like to have is a discussion about whether good journalism uses snarky comments and personal insult, which was my main issue at times with S&G.

 

Now , would you like to add your thoughts or just continue to try and dictate who should or should not post around here because you don't happen to like something?

[Rico]

18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Man.

 

Awful thread for you too.

 

When we've lost important contributors to this forum it hasn't been because of our best posters bickering with them.

 

It was because of people like the turds chasing JW in this thread.

 

Don't even go there......you don't want to end up like LABillzfan with JW in your avatar and only discussing JW topics.? 

   

Indeed.

[Peter]

1 hour ago, john wawrow said:

 

because some people are fooled by mistruths repeated over and over again that finally seem believable.

Others don’t like reading inconvenient truths.

And then there are those who for some reason are suspicious of science and facts.

 

Which one are you?

 

 

 

 

I always have respected you. I suspect that the Pegulas and people involved in their teams do as well given that you have been given access.

 

But, let's not kid ourselves, there is a huge difference between what you do and what Sully and Bucky have been doing for the past several years.   I am sure that you know that as well.  

 

TBN realized that as well. 

 

All one has to do is watch that end of year press Sabres conference from a few years ago, read Sully's gratuitous shots at the Pegulas, and Bucky's misogynistic comments about Kim . . . all with the maximum amount of snark to realize that they were all about pushing their own negative narratives.

 

If I were the Pegulas, I would have made the same distinction between guys like you and Vic and Tim, on the one hand, and Bucky, Sully, and Harrington on the other.  There is a world of difference.  I also suspect that Harrington is going to have to temper his snark if he wants to continue at TBN.

 

As an aside, I remember how Bucky and Sully were so outraged about the non-disclosure agreement Bucky's buddy Pat LaFontaine signed.  I wonder if these guys also had to execute non-disclosure agreements to get their buy outs.  Hmmm.  

Edited May 31, 2018 by Peter

[Delete This Account]

16 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

 

As an aside, I remember how Bucky and Sully were so outraged about the non-disclosure agreement after Bucky's buddy Pat LaFontaine signed.  I wonder if these guys also had to execute non-disclosure agreements to get their buy outs.  Hmmm.  

 

and you would be wrong 

 

jw

[BADOLBILZ]

29 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

 

But I never read that post.

I included the one I was referencing, because it was focused on Promo’s reply to it.

 

And no worries, i’m not going anywhere.

 

jw

 

1. I’m usually snarky.

2. Don’t tell me how I feel because you are clueless.

3. pffft

 

jw

 

I knew you were quoting Fadingpain.......I knew why OMF had veered off course........and why you gave him that response which was the equivalent of a sigh.

 

I am a veteran of that kind of false accusation but with me it's usually done on purpose because someone is losing an argument and is looking for re-inforcements.?

 

As you know these dudes are a pack of dogs you gotta' smack em' around when they get outta' line or they'll annoy the **** out of you.   Well done.

 

 

 

[mob16151]

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I knew you were quoting Fadingpain.......I knew why OMF had veered off course........and why you gave him that response which was the equivalent of a sigh.

 

I am a veteran of that kind of false accusation but with me it's usually done on purpose because someone is losing an argument and is looking for re-inforcements.?

 

As you know these dudes are a pack of dogs you gotta' smack em' around when they get outta' line or they'll annoy the **** out of you.   Well done.

 

 

 

 

Until you get TG'd over some easily avoidable s@@@@.

[Peter]

14 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

 

and you would be wrong 

 

jw

 

You have read the agreement?

 

If so, please tell us how much they were paid in their buy outs. I know you will not but I suspect that it was not a lot for someone who worked there for 29 years.

 

Please also explain why Bucky and Harrington could not keep their stories straight.  Bucky tweeted that he initiated the buy out: "I requested, received and accepted a buyout from TBN."

 

Harrington, on the other hand, admitted that TBN initiated this: "Voluntary buyouts were offered and people are making personal, life-changing decisions."

 

It is typical in any end of employment pay out for the employer to insist on the waiver of any claims and a non disclosure agreement or at least a non disparagement clause.  If TBN did not do so when making these payments, this would surprise me very much . . . and I would wonder what their attorneys' advice was.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Peter

[HalftimeAdjustment]

A standard non-disparagement and non disclosure agreement would cover not denigrating their employer (I don't think that is likely) and not disclosing confidential business information. It wouldn't be likely to be a complete gag order.

[Peter]

4 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

A standard non-disparagement and non disclosure agreement would cover not denigrating their employer (I don't think that is likely) and not disclosing confidential business information. It wouldn't be likely to be a complete gag order.

 

Whether an NDA is a complete "gag order" depends on the terms of the NDA.

 

As for LaFontaine, it is apparent (to me) from reading Bucky's articles at the time that LaFontaine did not feel burdened by anything he signed.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Peter

[HalftimeAdjustment]

Just now, Peter said:

 

Whether an NDA is a complete "gag order" depends on the terms if the NDA.

 

That is true and my point was it would be very unusual for a newspaper to require a gag order (as compared to say a sports team or other organization in the public eye).

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Man.

Awful thread for you too.

When we've lost important contributors to this forum it hasn't been because of our best posters bickering with them.

It was because of people like the turds chasing JW in this thread.

Don't even go there......you don't want to end up like LABillzfan with JW in your avatar and only discussing JW topics.?   

 

Why my goodness I do believe I plumb forgot how to curtsy!  Perhaps if I tug my forelock and doff my cap it will do!  I'll get right on it with the forelock-growing and cap-purchasing.

 

I don't believe that who someone is outside this board, should entitle them to a free pass to post whatever and not be called on it.

If that makes me a "turd" so be it
 

The analogy to LABillzfan seems un-called for and over-the-top - there's a far distance between disagreement and avatar-changing obsession

But if it pleases you to act like there isn't, Your Kink Is OK(tm)

[Peter]

8 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

That is true and my point was it would be very unusual for a newspaper to require a gag order (as compared to say a sports team or other organization in the public eye).

 

I don't necessarily disagree with your basic point but I suspect (without knowing for sure) that LaFontaine and Bucky and Sully - as part of receiving their payments:

 

1) waived any claims against their former employers;

2) agreed not to disparage their former employers;

3) to accomplish number 2, an employer also could insist that the former employee not disclose certain things (like the circumstances of the separation or events that occurred etc.)

 

Whatever LaFontaine signed and whatever form it took clearly did not impede him from getting his story out to Bucky.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Peter

[HalftimeAdjustment]

1 minute ago, Peter said:

 

Whatever LaFontaine signed and whatever form it took clearly did not impede him from getting his story out to Bucky.

 

Sometimes people gamble that they can break the agreement "a little" because it just wouldn't be worth the former employer's time to enforce. Just speculating here.

[Peter]

1 minute ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

Sometimes people gamble that they can break the agreement "a little" because it just wouldn't be worth the former employer's time to enforce. Just speculating here.

 

I totally agree with that. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 5/29/2018 at 5:22 PM, LABillzFan said:

Writers like Sully always kind of remind me of Shooter McGavin in "Happy Gilmore." In their prime, they were revered because there were not a lot of options. But when there ARE other options, they sometimes find themselves, out of desperation, trying to figure out how to hit a golf ball with a hockey stick.

 

I certainly remember the anticipation of sitting down with my newspaper because it was my only place to read the news. Hell, the arrival of "Shout!" damn near had me shut out everyone while I sat in my back yard reading it cover to cover.

 

When the internet opened portals to vast information at any time, some adapted and others, like Sullivan, were too late to respond and went after the low-hanging fruit: fans who love to be angry. Which is a lot like being alone in the woods with a golf ball and hockey stick.

 

OMG Shout! reference!  I wondered if anyone else remembered that.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Yeah but the thing is, he isn't good at it.  The idea would be to match wits and counter argue, right? Not to make easily falsifiable, plainly incorrect posts that mis-state what was said.

 

On an even playing field John Wowrow should be able to crush the board in a debate because this is his area of expertise. He could even slip by lies as truth and we wouldn't know if it was about a specific area of his business. Instead he is getting slammed and seeming petty.

 

I think journalistic skill and bulletin board debate are probably different skills.  There's some skill building that may not be obvious such as when you're responding to a response, needing to step back to the original post as context and maybe include part of it, to avoid confusion.

 

I expect that if I were to engage in debate in my particular field of expertise, I might seem kinda dumb.  For one thing, I'd probably feel like "hey, I'm the expert, that should give me props here" instead of knowing I need to establish my cred.  I might not have the patience to go carefully filling in explanations step by step , I'd be like, it's obvious you boneheads durrrr.

[HalftimeAdjustment]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think journalistic skill and bulletin board debate are probably different skills.  There's some skill building that may not be obvious such as when you're responding to a response, needing to step back to the original post as context and maybe include part of it, to avoid confusion.

 

I expect that if I were to engage in debate in my particular field of expertise, I might seem kinda dumb.  For one thing, I'd probably feel like "hey, I'm the expert, that should give me props here" instead of knowing I need to establish my cred.  I might not have the patience to go carefully filling in explanations step by step , I'd be like, it's obvious you boneheads durrrr.

 

Also, there is some evidence that he enjoys a bit of trolling and the occasional ad hominem attack. Maybe it is a good outlet compared to regular work. Is that the end of the world?

[BADOLBILZ]

17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Why my goodness I do believe I plumb forgot how to curtsy!  Perhaps if I tug my forelock and doff my cap it will do!  I'll get right on it with the forelock-growing and cap-purchasing.

 

I don't believe that who someone is outside this board, should entitle them to a free pass to post whatever and not be called on it.

If that makes me a "turd" so be it
 

The analogy to LABillzfan seems un-called for and over-the-top - there's a far distance between disagreement and avatar-changing obsession

But if it pleases you to act like there isn't, Your Kink Is OK(tm)

 

 

Ask yourself if it's worth it.

 

LA did not.........he bickered on the same premise you are........"I don't care who you are".......TG and Lori then left and LA and a few others got called out for it.........LA got defensive and has dedicated his TSW life to bringing to light the crimes of Tim Graham.

 

But yes I was joking.......that's what the laughing emoji was for.......everybody knows LA is a total Tim Graham-hate-fueled nut job.

[bbb]

49 minutes ago, Peter said:

As for LaFontaine, it is apparent (to me) from reading Bucky's articles at the time that LaFontaine did not feel burdened by anything he signed.

 

I missed it, I think............What did Bucky say was the reason for LaF leaving?

[BADOLBILZ]

28 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I expect that if I were to engage in debate in my particular field of expertise, I might seem kinda dumb.  For one thing, I'd probably feel like "hey, I'm the expert, that should give me props here" instead of knowing I need to establish my cred.  I might not have the patience to go carefully filling in explanations step by step , I'd be like, it's obvious you boneheads durrrr.

 

Right.

 

And I kinda' thought the Russ Brandon thing.........which was NOT news to the media........would have refreshed minds here about the fact that the media often know a lot more than they can or feel appropriate to say.    But if JW can't produce Sully's buy-out documents for inspection by TSW experts like Peter then he knows nothing about that situation and is just being a jerk.

 

You want to bicker with clueless hacks like Badlands or OMF that's fine but you know JW likely has a greater understanding of TBN and the Bills organizations than he can expound on so  *maybe* take it with a grain and move on.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Right.

 

And I kinda' thought the Russ Brandon thing.........which was NOT news to the media........would have refreshed minds here about the fact that the media often know a lot more than they can or feel appropriate to say.    But if JW can't produce Sully's buy-out documents for inspection by TSW experts like Peter then he knows nothing about that situation and is just being a jerk.

 

You want to bicker with clueless hacks like Badlands or OMF that's fine but you know JW likely has a greater understanding of TBN and the Bills organizations than he can expound on so  *maybe* take it with a grain and move on.

 

 

JW's inner knowledge is not at question here.

 

 

 

56 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

Also, there is some evidence that he enjoys a bit of trolling and the occasional ad hominem attack. Maybe it is a good outlet compared to regular work. Is that the end of the world?

 

No, not at all 'the end of the world'.  But in general, posters who troll a bit and indulge in the occasional ad hominem get called on it.  Some seem to feel jw should be granted some sort of journalistic immunity even when so doing. 

[Bill from NYC]

7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

If you cannot be here right now without acting like a dick then take a break until you can have a reasonable dialog.  You know that.  I cannot believe a journalist like you has to have that explained.

 

It seems clear you are upset over this news, and I'll say again I understand it must be difficult.

Do you think that decisions like the above should be left to SDS and the mods, or do you really think that you have the authority on this board to tell valued posters what they should say and/or how to post?

My guess (strictly a guess) is that a lot more posters care about what John has to say as opposed to caring about your posts, or mine for that matter.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Bill from NYC

[oldmanfan]

16 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Do you think that decisions like the above should be left to SDS and the mods, or do you really think that you have the authority on this board to tell valued posters what they should say and/or how to post?

My guess (strictly a guess) is that a lot more posters care about what John has to say as opposed to caring about your posts, or mine for that matter.

Did you read what he wrote.  Not saying he should be banned, just a suggestion because it seemed he was very upset over seeing S&G get canned.

 

You did see where I said I have always liked Wawrow's work.  But his posts here had nothing to do with sports and had more to do with trying to belittle posters.  That's wrong in my opinion and should be challenged.

[GunnerBill]

Wow.  This thing kinda got out of hand while I was asleep...... reading it objectively I don't think either side comes out very well. Maybe let's all take a breath and move on.  

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Wow.  This thing kinda got out of hand while I was asleep...... reading it objectively I don't think either side comes out very well. Maybe let's all take a breath and move on.  

Good point.  

[Wayne Cubed]

[Delete This Account]

7 hours ago, Peter said:

 

You have read the agreement?

 

If so, please tell us how much they were paid in their buy outs. I know you will not but I suspect that it was not a lot for someone who worked there for 29 years.

 

Please also explain why Bucky and Harrington could not keep their stories straight.  Bucky tweeted that he initiated the buy out: "I requested, received and accepted a buyout from TBN."

 

Harrington, on the other hand, admitted that TBN initiated this: "Voluntary buyouts were offered and people are making personal, life-changing decisions."

 

It is typical in any end of employment pay out for the employer to insist on the waiver of any claims and a non disclosure agreement or at least a non disparagement clause.  If TBN did not do so when making these payments, this would surprise me very much . . . and I would wonder what their attorneys' advice was.

 

you’ve dug yourself a mighty fine hole there.

so why not keep digging.

?

 

jw

[Cripple Creek]

13 hours ago, john wawrow said:

 

So, you’re saying, everyone with a geology degree is worth some $4 billion. 

Theyre finding gas and oil and gold and diamonds left and right and hand over fist.

And all we all needed to do was simply major in geology and we’d all be mega-billionaires, because that seems to be what you’re implying.

 

Gees, I’ve gotta get me back to school, then, because this sounds like a sure shot.

 

jw

The snark is heavy in this one.

12 hours ago, john wawrow said:

 

So you’re suggesting there was no element of luck involved. Not one iota. Out of thousands of people who have geology degrees, Terry just happened to have the knowledge to know exactly where to drill. And on the first shot no less.

Look, I’m not discounting the hard work, skill and endless hours it took Terry to build his business.

That said, this suggestion if there being no luck involved is both naive and preposterous.

As with anything, there was an element of luck and being in the right place at the right time to this.

 

But Robot seems to claim that simply having a geology degree is all it took.

 

Puh-leeze 

 

jw

Well, he’s not after all, a professional writer so perhaps someone is being just a tad to critical and deciding to read into something that was not intended. Course that’s just my pedestrian opinion.

[Cripple Creek]

10 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Ambien. 

My money is on Lephroaig.

[K-9]

Terry Pegula is self taught in geology. 

 

He holds a degree in Petroleum and Natural Gas Engineering from Penn State and spent a decade working for Getty and other oil companies before founding East Resources. His “luck” was many years in the making as his training, diligence, technical advances, and timing served to make informed speculations. He’s the quintessential American success story; completely self made. 

 

Any suggestion that he got “lucky” a la Jed Clampett is uninformed at best.