Heartfelt story of female football player.. Toni Harris, best of luck on your goal!

[CommonCents]

If Brienne of Tarth can’t do it, no woman can.

[The Now Moment]

3 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said:

FWIW at the 2005 combine, Sproles 5'6" 187 lbs put up 225 lbs 23 times and ran a 4.48 40.

 

Remember Joe Morris, 5'7" 195 lbs, he benched 420 lbs and squatted 700 lbs. 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&id=3819466

 

Sorry but no woman is ever playing in the NFL

I refuse to say something will "never" happen.  Sorry if that upsets you but I think if a woman really wanted to play, they could do it.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

Haha. Lets break this down bc it really shouldnt be THIS complicated. 

Are there fast women in this world? Yes. 

Are there big women in this world? Yes. 

Are there strong women in this world? Yes. 

Now that those disclaimers are out of the way lets stop the nonsense. 

 

Some of the fastest women in the history of the world (Jeter, Jones, Joyner) have weighed between 128lbs and 150. 

 

Yes theyre fast. We’re talking about all-time fast. How strong are they? How big are they? A 128lb woman would DIE on a football field. Name me a single NFL player that weighs less than 150 (including kickers). Those sizes could only be used at WR or maybe CB. LB’s or safeties that weigh 220lbs+ would obliterate them. 

 

Lets go on opposite side of spectrum. Lets find a woman that is 6’5 and weighs 250. Can that woman run a 4.6 40? Can she put up 225lbs 20+ times? 

 

Haha speaking as the parent of a female athletic teen, a lot of guys got it all mixed on what athletic women really weigh.   Muscle takes up less space than fat.  Most top HS basketball or volleyball teams have a girl who is 5'11-6'1 and able to muscle in under the basket.  College, add 3' - a top women's college team most of the women are 6'0 and up, with at least one who is 6'4"-6'5".

 

I don't think you find many male safeties that are 6'5" and weigh 250 lb.  Top safety in this draft 6'2" 215 lb. Fitzpatrick, 6'0", 204.  Drop down in the lower rounds, got some guys 5'10", 198 lbs and they were probably working hard to stay there.

 

Overall your point that NFL athletes are at the top of the top is right on.  There have been successful players (Jim Leonhard comes to mind) who aren't as physically elite, and make up for it with brains and game savvy.  Do I think there are probably a few female athletes who are big, strong, fast and could slot in there and compete? 

 

Probably.  Usually, they channel their love of sports into soccer, volleyball, basketball etc where there are more opportunities for women, so chances are we'll never know.

[Big Gun]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

I refuse to say something will "never" happen.  Sorry if that upsets you but I think if a woman really wanted to play, they could do it.  

Nope not happening!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

If Brienne of Tarth can’t do it, no woman can.

 

Brienne would kick butt and take names as a LB

[The Now Moment]

3 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said:

Nope not happening!

Cool man, I like to be more open-minded and not say someone can't do something.  Have a good one.  

[bobobonators]

16 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said:

FWIW at the 2005 combine, Sproles 5'6" 187 lbs put up 225 lbs 23 times and ran a 4.48 40.

 

Remember Joe Morris, 5'7" 195 lbs, he benched 420 lbs and squatted 700 lbs. 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&id=3819466

 

Sorry but no woman is ever playing in the NFL

 

Thank you good Sir. People simply seem to forget basic physiological differences between males and females. The ignorance is mind-blowing. 

 

“Male athletes have a higher ratio of muscle mass to body weight, which allows for greater speed and acceleration. This explains why female speed records in running and swimming are consistently 10 percent slower than men’s and why, on average, they have two thirds the strength of men. “

 

The last sentence there is key above all else. Can a woman be fast. Of course. However shes going to be REALLY weak compared to her NFL counterpart of the same size, not even addressing those that are almost twice her size. 

 

The NFL isnt like many other sports where a special skill can overcome basic, fundamental physiological differences. The special skills in the NFL (speed, strength, size) are the very things that differentiate males/females physiologically. To argue against that is pretty foolish. 

 

There are 3 positions in the NFL that dont focus on those 3 traits:  Kicker, Punter, and Quarterback. Like i said, i can see a female kicker/punter. In a world full of unicorns I can also see a female QB if she has a strong enough arm and amazing hand eye coordination/accuracy. But we’re far away from that happening. How many male QB’s have amazing accuracy and decent arm strength and still dont make the NFL:  99% of them dont. 

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by bobobonators

[bobobonators]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Haha speaking as the parent of a female athletic teen, a lot of guys got it all mixed on what athletic women really weigh.   Muscle takes up less space than fat.  Most top HS basketball or volleyball teams have a girl who is 5'11-6'1 and able to muscle in under the basket.  College, add 3' - a top women's college team most of the women are 6'0 and up, with at least one who is 6'4"-6'5".

 

I don't think you find many male safeties that are 6'5" and weigh 250 lb.  Top safety in this draft 6'2" 215 lb. Fitzpatrick, 6'0", 204.  Drop down in the lower rounds, got some guys 5'10", 198 lbs and they were probably working hard to stay there.

 

Overall your point that NFL athletes are at the top of the top is right on.  There have been successful players (Jim Leonhard comes to mind) who aren't as physically elite, and make up for it with brains and game savvy.  Do I think there are probably a few female athletes who are big, strong, fast and could slot in there and compete? 

 

Probably.  Usually, they channel their love of sports into soccer, volleyball, basketball etc where there are more opportunities for women, so chances are we'll never know.

 

Im not denying females can be large. Its a strength/speed issue. The taller the female the slower she is. Elite Female athletes are already naturally slower than elite male athletes. We’re talking about a league where one to two tenths of a second is the difference between making it and not making it. 

 

Also, and above all else, is the stength issue. There are large female athletes for sure. But how strong are they compared to their male counterparts. Thats the key here. 

 

Could a 6’5 250lb female take a hit from a 200lb safety? I guess. But she would never be in the league to begin with bc that 6’5 250lb TE female wouldnt be able to run faster than her male counterparts to make that TE spot. 

 

Could a 5’9 140lb female be fast enough to play CB/WR/RB. On paper maybe. But in reality she wouldnt be strong enough and weigh enough to absorb the hits she would take. 

 

Unfortunately, physiologicaly speaking, women cant be big, strong, and fast all at the same time (strictly at NFL comparison standards of big/strong/fast).  Theyre not built that way. If theyre really fast theyre going to be way too small for the NFL to absorb hits. If theyre big (mainly tall enough) theyre going to be way too slow/weak for the NFL. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

“Male athletes have a higher ratio of muscle mass to body weight, which allows for greater speed and acceleration. This explains why female speed records in running and swimming are consistently 10 percent slower than men’s and why, on average, they have two thirds the strength of men. “

 

The last sentence there is key above all else. Can a woman be fast. Of course. However shes going to be REALLY weak compared to her NFL counterpart of the same size, not even addressing those that are almost twice her size.

 

I really don't want to drop into the quagmire here, but I think you need to pay attention to the words "on average".

 

I mean, just think about it a little bit, someone brought F=ma into it.  If women's speed records are 10% slower than men's, how do you think they'd achieve that if those specific women have only 2/3 the strength of men?  Feminine wiles or something?

[Misterbluesky]

2 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

I have and would again. 

 

It's even more bizzare wrestling one.

 

It's ridiculous to give less than your best and it's disrespectful to lighten up because she is a woman. Unless she's retarded she knows her risks on the field, it's the same risk anyone takes on the field and it's part of what so many enjoy about the participation in sports; the wide open sheer madness.

What weight classes were you in...frosh up until your senior varsity year?

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

There shouldn't be a specific rule against it though. If someone is the best person available at a position they should be able to play. If none are able to make it then that's just how it hashes out but anyone should be free to try to make it if they want.

 

They dont need to make a rule against it but it will end badly for this lady.

50 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

I refuse to say something will "never" happen.  Sorry if that upsets you but I think if a woman really wanted to play, they could do it.  

 

No they couldn't. Get real.

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

They dont need to make a rule against it but it will end badly for this lady.

 

No they couldn't. Get real.

How? Will she not make it or get injured trying? Because those are the same endings for guys when they don't make it.

[Big Turk]

50 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Haha speaking as the parent of a female athletic teen, a lot of guys got it all mixed on what athletic women really weigh.   Muscle takes up less space than fat.  Most top HS basketball or volleyball teams have a girl who is 5'11-6'1 and able to muscle in under the basket.  College, add 3' - a top women's college team most of the women are 6'0 and up, with at least one who is 6'4"-6'5".

 

I don't think you find many male safeties that are 6'5" and weigh 250 lb.  Top safety in this draft 6'2" 215 lb. Fitzpatrick, 6'0", 204.  Drop down in the lower rounds, got some guys 5'10", 198 lbs and they were probably working hard to stay there.

 

Overall your point that NFL athletes are at the top of the top is right on.  There have been successful players (Jim Leonhard comes to mind) who aren't as physically elite, and make up for it with brains and game savvy.  Do I think there are probably a few female athletes who are big, strong, fast and could slot in there and compete? 

 

Probably.  Usually, they channel their love of sports into soccer, volleyball, basketball etc where there are more opportunities for women, so chances are we'll never know.

 

And the bottom line is that women CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT put on muscle mass anywhere close to the rate that men cane precisely because they have 10% of the testosterone levels that men do.  Its basic science and hormones.  If they had a combine for female football players the bench press record for 225lbs would be 1. And that would likely be with a spotter helping them halfway up.

 

4 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

How? Will she not make it or get injured trying? Because those are the same endings for guys when they don't make it.

 

She wouldnt even get a camp invite to the NFL. In college she is going to get hurt pretty quickly.

Edited May 15, 2018 by matter2003

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

And the bottom line is that women CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT put on muscle mass anywhere close to the rate that men cane precisely because they have 10% of the testosterone levels that men do.  Its basic science and hormones.

 

The issue isn't "rate of muscle mass increase", it's whether one can find elite women athletes who have speed, strength, and size characteristics that overlap those of successful NFL athletes at specific positions.  Given what I know about the overlap between the best female athletes and the best male athletes in HS, and what I've seen of professional female athletes, I think it's plausible that one can.  Not many, but some. 

 

But that doesn't mean we'll see them in the NFL, because, as I said, most of the elite female athletes choose to participate in sports where there are more opportunities for women.

 

As for the young lady in the film clip, I wish her the best, but she would appear to have very long odds.

 

The impact of testosterone on ability to gain muscle strength, when studied, is a little less simplistic than Johnny at the Gym eating his "High T" diet would like to believe.

[Lfod]

Watched the video. Interesting person for sure. Not going to jump in the debate. If she doesn't make it I do think there is women's football. At least that's what a friend showed me in a video one day. I never knew of it's existence before that day. 

 

 

If you didn't know about this.... You are welcome. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Lfod

[Big Turk]

57 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The issue isn't "rate of muscle mass increase", it's whether one can find elite women athletes who have speed, strength, and size characteristics that overlap those of successful NFL athletes at specific positions.  Given what I know about the overlap between the best female athletes and the best male athletes in HS, and what I've seen of professional female athletes, I think it's plausible that one can.  Not many, but some. 

 

But that doesn't mean we'll see them in the NFL, because, as I said, most of the elite female athletes choose to participate in sports where there are more opportunities for women.

 

As for the young lady in the film clip, I wish her the best, but she would appear to have very long odds.

 

The impact of testosterone on ability to gain muscle strength, when studied, is a little less simplistic than Johnny at the Gym eating his "High T" diet would like to believe.

 

Even if this is the case there are two major differences.

 

1) The amount of muscle mass one can put on is directly porportionate to their frame, ligament/tendon strength, bone density and natural body weight. Men typically have larger frames and higher starting body weights as well as stronger tendons/ligaments and denser bones than women(another effect of Testosterone). Even if women were able to put on the same percentage of muscle mass, the amount of muscle mass would be less simply due to their starting weight being lower.

 

2) Women naturally have a much higher normal body fat percentage than men. At 15% body fat a woman will look ripped. At the same body fat in a man you will barely see abs.  Football players many times are under 10% body fat...a woman would suffer severe physiological consequences if she got this low and could actually die.

Edited May 15, 2018 by matter2003

[MakeBuffaloGreatAgain]

have you all seen that transgender(born male) power lifter who dominated womens competition lifting? or how about that transgendered(born male) MMA fighter who is crushing the female competition. Or to reverse, what about that top ranked female swimmer who is transgender and is now a below average male swimmer. NO female athlete could EVER make it in the NFL or even NBA. Maybe Soccer, because they would actually be tougher than their male counter parts.

[boyst]

8 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

What weight classes were you in...frosh up until your senior varsity year?

160, 171, 189, 215

It 2as the lighter weight class, but there was a chick from an inner city school at 275. She was a mauler.  Vicious. She would get warnings for hitting and slapping. 

9 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Not sure who taught you how to respect women, but I can tell you this ... they didn't do a good job.

Why is that?  Sportsmanship is far different than chivalry, bud.

 

I open doors for all my tinder dates, and message them the next day.  Respect for women is entirely different. It is disrespectful to treat a woman as anything less than an equal.  #metoo

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Geeze- I’m sure she is the toughest player on any field she steps on. 

[cba fan]

14 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

Would you tackle a woman with all of your might? I would not.

Agreed...… then just tackle her like rugby.

Don't have to just hit her as hard as you can like many NFL players do, and then watch the ball carrier sometimes bounce off and keep going.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Even if this is the case there are two major differences.

 

1) The amount of muscle mass one can put on is directly porportionate to their frame, ligament/tendon strength, bone density and natural body weight. Men typically have larger frames and higher starting body weights as well as stronger tendons/ligaments and denser bones than women(another effect of Testosterone). Even if women were able to put on the same percentage of muscle mass, the amount of muscle mass would be less simply due to their starting weight being lower.

 

2) Women naturally have a much higher normal body fat percentage than men. At 15% body fat a woman will look ripped. At the same body fat in a man you will barely see abs.  Football players many times are under 10% body fat...a woman would suffer severe physiological consequences if she got this low and could actually die.

 

The point here isn't what's "typical".  My question is whether there are female athletes, the very right side of the bell curve for frame, strength, speed etc., who could "slot in" to the NFL talent level, not at the far right side of the NFL curve, but in the middle or bottom side where less-physically-talented players (like Jim Leonhard) made a career out of leveraging a great football mind and knowledge of the game to maximize the impact of his (relatively mediocre) skills. 

 

I think that's theoretically possible, based upon what top female athletes have achieved in various sports such as basketball, soccer, etc.

I don't think it's likely, because most women who have that level of athleticism choose sports where there are more opportunities for women to play sports professionally, such as soccer, basketball, or volleyball.

 

You may disagree - totally reasonable - but you can't really argue against the point based on what's "typical" or "average", because no one is arguing that "typical" or "average" females or female athletes could possibly slot in at that talent level.    The point is the far right edge of the bell curve for female athletes vs the bell curve for successful NFL players, and whether there's any overlap.

 

Per article on Livestrong: " The range of body fat percentage for NFL players runs from about 3.4 percent to 35.6 percent, but the average body fat for a given position is somewhere in the middle. A wide receiver has an average body fat of about 9.4 percent, with a range between 3.7 and 19.4 percent, while an offensive lineman has an average body fat of about 24.6, with a range between 13.9 and 35.6 percent. The average body fat percentages of players in other positions fall in between those of wide receivers and offensive linemen."  Most elite female athletes have 15-20% body fat.  That's not out of the NFL range of body fat for a WR or DB, which says to me if the woman had a similar frame, height, and weight and similar athleticism, she could slot in.

 

As for the young lady featured in the OP, I wish her all the best in the world but from what I saw, I don't think she could match up well to a female athlete from an elite women's college sport (say, Napheesa Collier), much less a male football player from a D1 school. 

 

That would also be true of most male football players from NAIA programs.

3 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

160, 171, 189, 215

It 2as the lighter weight class, but there was a chick from an inner city school at 275. She was a mauler.  Vicious. She would get warnings for hitting and slapping. 

Why is that? 

 

Prolly her technique was weak sauce and she got frustrated when she couldn't get by on weight/size?  Just guessing.

 

Quote

Sportsmanship is far different than chivalry, bud.

 

I open doors for all my tinder dates, and message them the next day.  Respect for women is entirely different. It is disrespectful to treat a woman as anything less than an equal.  #metoo

 

Back in the day, I played several martial arts (none to expertise) - judo, TKD, karate.  Coed classes, co-ed sparring in class, for rank advancement, and at smaller informal tournaments.

 

It was explained to me you bow to your partner before the bout, both to indicate respect and to recognize that you are both stepping out of the "normal sphere" of social behavior.

 

Other sports don't bow, but to my understanding the captains meeting at midfield/shaking hands started as a similar tradition: "in a bar, I'd buy you a beer but for the next 60 minutes I will do my best to make you eat dirt"

[MJS]

12 hours ago, bobobonators said:

 

Haha. Lets break this down bc it really shouldnt be THIS complicated. 

 

Are there fast women in this world? Yes. 

 

Are there big women in this world? Yes. 

 

Are there strong women in this world? Yes. 

 

Now that those disclaimers are out of the way lets stop the nonsense. 

 

Some of the fastest women in the history of the world (Jeter, Jones, Joyner) have weighed between 128lbs and 150. 

 

Yes theyre fast. We’re talking about all-time fast. How strong are they? How big are they? A 128lb woman would DIE on a football field. Name me a single NFL player that weighs less than 150 (including kickers). Those sizes could only be used at WR or maybe CB. LB’s or safeties that weigh 220lbs+ would obliterate them. 

 

Lets go on opposite side of spectrum. Lets find a woman that is 6’5 and weighs 250. Can that woman run a 4.6 40? Can she put up 225lbs 20+ times? 

 

The only way to know for sure is to measure every woman on the planet.

 

In general, what you are saying is true. But chances are there is a woman out there, in some distant land, who CAN do those things. And then the only question is, does she want to play football?

 

I bet there will be a woman in the NFL one day. She'll probably be a punter or a kicker. Those positions are well protected, and it is not unimaginable that a woman could kick a ball far and accurately.

[teef]

15 hours ago, JinxedBill1 said:

No thanks.  I'm rooting for her but I still think there should be a league for woman like the NBA.  

 

 

there actually was in the wny area years ago, (it may have been specific to rochester).  my cousin was an owner/player.  it was awful.

[boyst]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The point here isn't what's "typical".  My question is whether there are female athletes, the very right side of the bell curve for frame, strength, speed etc., who could "slot in" to the NFL talent level, not at the far right side of the NFL curve, but in the middle or bottom side where less-physically-talented players (like Jim Leonhard) made a career out of leveraging a great football mind and knowledge of the game to maximize the impact of his (relatively mediocre) skills. 

 

I think that's theoretically possible, based upon what top female athletes have achieved in various sports such as basketball, soccer, etc.

I don't think it's likely, because most women who have that level of athleticism choose sports where there are more opportunities for women to play sports professionally, such as soccer, basketball, or volleyball.

 

You may disagree - totally reasonable - but you can't really argue against the point based on what's "typical" or "average", because no one is arguing that "typical" or "average" females or female athletes could possibly slot in at that talent level.    The point is the far right edge of the bell curve for female athletes vs the bell curve for successful NFL players, and whether there's any overlap.

 

Per article on Livestrong: " The range of body fat percentage for NFL players runs from about 3.4 percent to 35.6 percent, but the average body fat for a given position is somewhere in the middle. A wide receiver has an average body fat of about 9.4 percent, with a range between 3.7 and 19.4 percent, while an offensive lineman has an average body fat of about 24.6, with a range between 13.9 and 35.6 percent. The average body fat percentages of players in other positions fall in between those of wide receivers and offensive linemen."  Most elite female athletes have 15-20% body fat.  That's not out of the NFL range of body fat for a WR or DB, which says to me if the woman had a similar frame, height, and weight and similar athleticism, she could slot in.

 

As for the young lady featured in the OP, I wish her all the best in the world but from what I saw, I don't think she could match up well to a female athlete from an elite women's college sport (say, Napheesa Collier), much less a male football player from a D1 school. 

 

That would also be true of most male football players from NAIA programs.

 

Prolly her technique was weak sauce and she got frustrated when she couldn't get by on weight/size?  Just guessing.

 

 

Back in the day, I played several martial arts (none to expertise) - judo, TKD, karate.  Coed classes, co-ed sparring in class, for rank advancement, and at smaller informal tournaments.

 

It was explained to me you bow to your partner before the bout, both to indicate respect and to recognize that you are both stepping out of the "normal sphere" of social behavior.

She was just an angry person and used it to channel her frustrations. I forgot her name but she was very sweet off the mat. By senior year she weighed over 300lbs.

[BuffaloBillyG]

16 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

Would you tackle a woman with all of your might? I would not.

Yes. When she puts on a helmet she's no longer a she. She becomes a football player. If the person under the helmet can't handle the hard hits then it's not the sport for them.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

(female wrestler who got warnings for slapping and hitting opponents)
She was just an angry person and used it to channel her frustrations. I forgot her name but she was very sweet off the mat. By senior year she weighed over 300lbs.

 

I actually had the same thought about the young football player in the OP.  She's certainly got a lot of stuff to be angry about in her life to date.  Sports are a great way to channel anger and aggressions, and football is King for that.  As Eric Wood was quoted, "you can do things on the football field that are severely illegal anywhere else".  If playing football helps her channel that stuff, get it out and live a happier life off-field, Godspeed to her.

 

HS kid at my kid's school, gonna graduate this year, all-State defensive tackle in smaller HS division.  Earned a scholarship to play football at a DII college.  Also wrestled. Good kid, you can tell he was raised to be a gentleman, but real hardship in his background that has given him "Mad issues" he takes out legally on the football field.  I have similar concerns about him that some have expressed about the young woman in the OP.  He's a DT, and he's like 5'8, 5'9.  His wrestling technique and strength got him by in HS, I worry he's going to get blown up and injured in college.

 

You don't find 5'8 DT in high level competition for a reason.

[Luxy312]

It's a nice story, but that's really where it ends.  Over 1 million young men play high school football every year.  Tens of thousands go on to play football in college.  By comparison, there's only about 1,500 young women that play high school football (yes it's that many) and a few dozen that play college football.  Taking the mathematical odds of making it to the NFL level where teams are only filling out 53 active roster spots on 32 teams, it is extremely unlikely.  Simply put, if an NFL caliber punter is one-in-a-million, then men's football (starting with HS) will turn out one a year.  By comparison, we would see one female punter about every 600 years.

As for Toni Harris, she's a 5' 6" safety playing for Bethany College.  She's not even the best player on her team, much less a viable candidate for the NFL.  

[boyst]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I actually had the same thought about the young football player in the OP.  She's certainly got a lot of stuff to be angry about in her life to date.  Sports are a great way to channel anger and aggressions, and football is King for that.  As Eric Wood was quoted, "you can do things on the football field that are severely illegal anywhere else".  If playing football helps her channel that stuff, get it out and live a happier life off-field, Godspeed to her.

 

HS kid at my kid's school, gonna graduate this year, all-State defensive tackle in smaller HS division.  Earned a scholarship to play football at a DII college.  Also wrestled. Good kid, you can tell he was raised to be a gentleman, but real hardship in his background that has given him "Mad issues" he takes out legally on the football field.  I have similar concerns about him that some have expressed about the young woman in the OP.  He's a DT, and he's like 5'8, 5'9.  His wrestling technique and strength got him by in HS, I worry he's going to get blown up and injured in college.

 

You don't find 5'8 DT in high level competition for a reason.

That and not be able to channel his frustration without success.  I've known a few who went down the road and it didn't end well, both took their life.  Mental illness.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Luxy312 said:

It's a nice story, but that's really where it ends.  Over 1 million young men play high school football every year.  Tens of thousands go on to play football in college.  By comparison, there's only about 1,500 young women that play high school football (yes it's that many) and a few dozen that play college football.  Taking the mathematical odds of making it to the NFL level where teams are only filling out 53 active roster spots on 32 teams, it is extremely unlikely.  Simply put, if an NFL caliber punter is one-in-a-million, then men's football (starting with HS) will turn out one a year.  By comparison, we would see one female punter about every 600 years.

As for Toni Harris, she's a 5' 6" safety playing for Bethany College.  She's not even the best player on her team, much less a viable candidate for the NFL.  

 

Good post.

 

I couldn't find her height anywhere,  I was guessing based on how she looked relative to the people around her.  Yeah, I wish her the best, but she's too small for the NFL just like the 5'8 or 5'9" male DT I wrote about.

[Jauronimo]

16 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

That's your opinion.I wrestled in HS in the late 70's and early 80's,not a chance I would ever take on a girl. No way...No how. These days boys are joining the girl scouts and girls are going the boy scouts...have at it!!!!...

This is why your wife wears the pants in the household. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Jauronimo

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The point here isn't what's "typical".  My question is whether there are female athletes, the very right side of the bell curve for frame, strength, speed etc., who could "slot in" to the NFL talent level, not at the far right side of the NFL curve, but in the middle or bottom side where less-physically-talented players (like Jim Leonhard) made a career out of leveraging a great football mind and knowledge of the game to maximize the impact of his (relatively mediocre) skills. 

 

I think that's theoretically possible, based upon what top female athletes have achieved in various sports such as basketball, soccer, etc.

I don't think it's likely, because most women who have that level of athleticism choose sports where there are more opportunities for women to play sports professionally, such as soccer, basketball, or volleyball.

 

You may disagree - totally reasonable - but you can't really argue against the point based on what's "typical" or "average", because no one is arguing that "typical" or "average" females or female athletes could possibly slot in at that talent level.    The point is the far right edge of the bell curve for female athletes vs the bell curve for successful NFL players, and whether there's any overlap.

 

Per article on Livestrong: " The range of body fat percentage for NFL players runs from about 3.4 percent to 35.6 percent, but the average body fat for a given position is somewhere in the middle. A wide receiver has an average body fat of about 9.4 percent, with a range between 3.7 and 19.4 percent, while an offensive lineman has an average body fat of about 24.6, with a range between 13.9 and 35.6 percent. The average body fat percentages of players in other positions fall in between those of wide receivers and offensive linemen."  Most elite female athletes have 15-20% body fat.  That's not out of the NFL range of body fat for a WR or DB, which says to me if the woman had a similar frame, height, and weight and similar athleticism, she could slot in.

 

As for the young lady featured in the OP, I wish her all the best in the world but from what I saw, I don't think she could match up well to a female athlete from an elite women's college sport (say, Napheesa Collier), much less a male football player from a D1 school. 

 

That would also be true of most male football players from NAIA programs.

 

Prolly her technique was weak sauce and she got frustrated when she couldn't get by on weight/size?  Just guessing.

 

 

Back in the day, I played several martial arts (none to expertise) - judo, TKD, karate.  Coed classes, co-ed sparring in class, for rank advancement, and at smaller informal tournaments.

 

It was explained to me you bow to your partner before the bout, both to indicate respect and to recognize that you are both stepping out of the "normal sphere" of social behavior.

 

Other sports don't bow, but to my understanding the captains meeting at midfield/shaking hands started as a similar tradition: "in a bar, I'd buy you a beer but for the next 60 minutes I will do my best to make you eat dirt"

 

 

I think this this is the best/correct part - yes there is that 0.01% on the farthest part of the female athletic spectrum that would match up with the a mid to lower level NFL player at certain positions.  

 

You are spot on and as you stated the issue is that elite level female athlete will most likely not be trying out for the NFL because the opportunity is not really there - she will be playing in a more female focused league like the WNBA where she can be elite.

 

The issue with everyone saying something can not be done is because it has not been done.  There are definitely limitations to how a female could fit on a football field, but if they are talented enough to play in High School and they can get a college scholarship then take it as far as you can.  As barriers break then others that are closer to the 0.01% may try and you may one day see the barrier broken.

 

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The point here isn't what's "typical".  My question is whether there are female athletes, the very right side of the bell curve for frame, strength, speed etc., who could "slot in" to the NFL talent level, not at the far right side of the NFL curve, but in the middle or bottom side where less-physically-talented players (like Jim Leonhard) made a career out of leveraging a great football mind and knowledge of the game to maximize the impact of his (relatively mediocre) skills. 

 

I think that's theoretically possible, based upon what top female athletes have achieved in various sports such as basketball, soccer, etc.

I don't think it's likely, because most women who have that level of athleticism choose sports where there are more opportunities for women to play sports professionally, such as soccer, basketball, or volleyball.

 

You may disagree - totally reasonable - but you can't really argue against the point based on what's "typical" or "average", because no one is arguing that "typical" or "average" females or female athletes could possibly slot in at that talent level.    The point is the far right edge of the bell curve for female athletes vs the bell curve for successful NFL players, and whether there's any overlap.

 

Per article on Livestrong: " The range of body fat percentage for NFL players runs from about 3.4 percent to 35.6 percent, but the average body fat for a given position is somewhere in the middle. A wide receiver has an average body fat of about 9.4 percent, with a range between 3.7 and 19.4 percent, while an offensive lineman has an average body fat of about 24.6, with a range between 13.9 and 35.6 percent. The average body fat percentages of players in other positions fall in between those of wide receivers and offensive linemen."  Most elite female athletes have 15-20% body fat.  That's not out of the NFL range of body fat for a WR or DB, which says to me if the woman had a similar frame, height, and weight and similar athleticism, she could slot in.

 

As for the young lady featured in the OP, I wish her all the best in the world but from what I saw, I don't think she could match up well to a female athlete from an elite women's college sport (say, Napheesa Collier), much less a male football player from a D1 school. 

 

That would also be true of most male football players from NAIA programs.

 

Prolly her technique was weak sauce and she got frustrated when she couldn't get by on weight/size?  Just guessing.

 

 

Back in the day, I played several martial arts (none to expertise) - judo, TKD, karate.  Coed classes, co-ed sparring in class, for rank advancement, and at smaller informal tournaments.

 

It was explained to me you bow to your partner before the bout, both to indicate respect and to recognize that you are both stepping out of the "normal sphere" of social behavior.

 

Other sports don't bow, but to my understanding the captains meeting at midfield/shaking hands started as a similar tradition: "in a bar, I'd buy you a beer but for the next 60 minutes I will do my best to make you eat dirt"

 

I will slightly disagree with you there bud... Sure Leonhard may not be super physically gifted from NFL standards...

 

but he was still a 3x All American in college and is jacked at 5’8 185... he was really fast coming out as well

 

I am all For equality but I have still yet to find A woman that could even potentially rival a Jim Leonhard in terms of size, speed, skill on a football field 

 

He was a really good football player. 

 

Anything is possible , but she would have to be an absolute freak of nature to be able to do anything other than kick, punt or possibly QB if her arm was strong enough and she could process things a million miles a second 

 

tough for me to see a RB, WR, LB or DB at a super high level

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

22 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

I think this this is the best/correct part - yes there is that 0.01% on the farthest part of the female athletic spectrum that would match up with the a mid to lower level NFL player at certain positions.  

 

You are spot on and as you stated the issue is that elite level female athlete will most likely not be trying out for the NFL because the opportunity is not really there - she will be playing in a more female focused league like the WNBA where she can be elite.

 

The issue with everyone saying something can not be done is because it has not been done.  There are definitely limitations to how a female could fit on a football field, but if they are talented enough to play in High School and they can get a college scholarship then take it as far as you can.  As barriers break then others that are closer to the 0.01% may try and you may one day see the barrier broken.

 

 

...would be a great story, but I doubt it happens.....first female to make it in the NFL will be a PK or perhaps a punter........plenty of females with soccer background.....my good bud Bobby Thomas was a ND soccer player by trade who made it with da Bears as PK......retired and became Chief Justice of Illinois Supreme Court.......

Edited May 15, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Big Gun]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

I will slightly disagree with you there bud... Sure Leonhard may not be super physically gifted from NFL standards...

 

but he was still a 3x All American in college and is jacked at 5’8 185... he was really fast coming out as well

 

I am all For equality but I have still yet to find A woman that could even potentially rival a Jim Leonhard in terms of size, speed, skill on a football field 

 

He was a really good football player. 

 

Anything is possible , but she would have to be an absolute freak of nature to be able to do anything other than kick, punt or possibly QB if her arm was strong enough and she could process things a million miles a second 

 

tough for me to see a RB, WR, LB or DB at a super high level

Yup.

 

Take MMA Cris Cyborg, she is huge for a woman 5'8" 175 when not cutting weight, she is about the size of a small CB.  She was deadlifting 305 lbs, could she do more, I don't know but Deshaun Watson was deadlifting 605 for a QB. She may be on the small end of CB size wise but I highly doubt she can run a even a sub 5.00 40. 

 

As Bob said physically a woman could be of the same size but surly would lack in foot speed or she may be almost as fast yet wouldn't have the physical size or muscle mass. 

 

A woman in the NFL is something that would never happen  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, PeterGriffin said:

Take MMA Cris Cyborg, she is huge for a woman 5'8" 175 when not cutting weight

 

Article I found says she weighs 145.  If she's truly "cutting weight" 20% of her body mass that's a lot. 

No, 5'8" and 175 is not particularly "huge" for a female athlete.

 

Jim Leonhard's combine time was 4.63 40yd and he went undrafted, partly 'cuz regarded as not fast.

 

Other than that, I'd be looping responses so I'm done here.

[Mango]

23 hours ago, Bills4life1924 said:

What sport does a women have that men dont? Cheerleading? There are men cheerleaders. Field hockey(possibly)? But men play hockey instead. I cannot think of another women organized sport that men do not have. If I am missing something let me know, but women do not have all the opportunity in organized sports like men do

 

Mens field hockey is an Olympic sport. That’s largely a US thing, that men don’t play. 

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Article I found says she weighs 145.  If she's truly "cutting weight" 20% of her body mass that's a lot. 

No, 5'8" and 175 is not particularly "huge" for a female athlete.

 

Jim Leonhard's combine time was 4.63 40yd and he went undrafted, partly 'cuz regarded as not fast.

 

Other than that, I'd be looping responses so I'm done here.

 

Jarvis Landry ran a 4.77...

 

while a 4.63 doesn’t seem fast when you see combine times in the 4.3 and 4.4s it is still very fast for a human being

 

4.4 is top class, 4.5 is really fast, 4.6 is fast...

 

The average safety 40 time is around 4.60 so he is right there... 4.8 would be slow for a safety 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Buffalo716

[Bills4life1924]

19 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Mens field hockey is an Olympic sport. That’s largely a US thing, that men don’t play. 

Mind blown.. I follow olympics, but I guess not as much as I thought. Did not know this

[bobobonators]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The point here isn't what's "typical".  My question is whether there are female athletes, the very right side of the bell curve for frame, strength, speed etc., who could "slot in" to the NFL talent level, not at the far right side of the NFL curve, but in the middle or bottom side where less-physically-talented players (like Jim Leonhard) made a career out of leveraging a great football mind and knowledge of the game to maximize the impact of his (relatively mediocre) skills. 

 

I think that's theoretically possible, based upon what top female athletes have achieved in various sports such as basketball, soccer, etc.

I don't think it's likely, because most women who have that level of athleticism choose sports where there are more opportunities for women to play sports professionally, such as soccer, basketball, or volleyball.

 

You may disagree - totally reasonable - but you can't really argue against the point based on what's "typical" or "average", because no one is arguing that "typical" or "average" females or female athletes could possibly slot in at that talent level.    The point is the far right edge of the bell curve for female athletes vs the bell curve for successful NFL players, and whether there's any overlap.

 

Per article on Livestrong: " The range of body fat percentage for NFL players runs from about 3.4 percent to 35.6 percent, but the average body fat for a given position is somewhere in the middle. A wide receiver has an average body fat of about 9.4 percent, with a range between 3.7 and 19.4 percent, while an offensive lineman has an average body fat of about 24.6, with a range between 13.9 and 35.6 percent. The average body fat percentages of players in other positions fall in between those of wide receivers and offensive linemen."  Most elite female athletes have 15-20% body fat.  That's not out of the NFL range of body fat for a WR or DB, which says to me if the woman had a similar frame, height, and weight and similar athleticism, she could slot in.

 

As for the young lady featured in the OP, I wish her all the best in the world but from what I saw, I don't think she could match up well to a female athlete from an elite women's college sport (say, Napheesa Collier), much less a male football player from a D1 school. 

 

That would also be true of most male football players from NAIA programs.

 

Prolly her technique was weak sauce and she got frustrated when she couldn't get by on weight/size?  Just guessing.

 

 

Back in the day, I played several martial arts (none to expertise) - judo, TKD, karate.  Coed classes, co-ed sparring in class, for rank advancement, and at smaller informal tournaments.

 

It was explained to me you bow to your partner before the bout, both to indicate respect and to recognize that you are both stepping out of the "normal sphere" of social behavior.

 

Other sports don't bow, but to my understanding the captains meeting at midfield/shaking hands started as a similar tradition: "in a bar, I'd buy you a beer but for the next 60 minutes I will do my best to make you eat dirt"

 

Jim Leonhard weighed in at the combine at 190lbs. Ran a 4.6 40 and benched 225 19 times.

 

No 5’8 female can do all of the above (which by the way is nothing special for NFL talent):

 

she can be 5’8 and run that time, sure. But she’ll end up benching 225 maybe 5 times. And thats being extremely optimistic. For her to have the speed necessary to run that time (which isnt that fast for NFL) she’ll have to be leaner (simply look at what female sprinters weigh). A female isnt physiologically engineered to do both at that level. 

 

If you want a female to put up 225 19 times she would have to be a monster. I honestly dont even know if its possible. Id have to look at female powerlifters around the world to even get a point of reference.  Unfortunately, a powerlifter isnt the ideal bodytype candidate to play in the NFL. 

 

Unfortunately theres no way around this argument regardless of what side of the bell curve youre looking at. Genetics and physiology are incontestible here. 

[MakeBuffaloGreatAgain]

4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

I think this this is the best/correct part - yes there is that 0.01% on the farthest part of the female athletic spectrum that would match up with the a mid to lower level NFL player at certain positions.  

 

You are spot on and as you stated the issue is that elite level female athlete will most likely not be trying out for the NFL because the opportunity is not really there - she will be playing in a more female focused league like the WNBA where she can be elite.

 

The issue with everyone saying something can not be done is because it has not been done.  There are definitely limitations to how a female could fit on a football field, but if they are talented enough to play in High School and they can get a college scholarship then take it as far as you can.  As barriers break then others that are closer to the 0.01% may try and you may one day see the barrier broken.

 

You are 100% wrong. There is NO woman on the entire planet who can match even the worst athlete on a NFL field. Just like there is not a single woman who can make it in the men’s European League of Basketball, let alone NBA. You are grasping at ideologies and not actual common sense.