Rob Johnson is still bitter after 20 years

[That's No Moon]

23 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Staging heroic 4th quarter comebacks in combination with his autistic son was all part of Flutie's grand conspiracy to screw Johnson. Ingenious.

A. Having a son with autism has nothing to do with whether or not Flutie was a good QB or not unless unbeknownst to me he strapped his son to his shoulders in some sort of Master Blaster configuration in the 4th quarter of games.

B. Johnson stunk too so that's a non-starter of a conversation. Johnson or Flutie?  Neither. 

C. You never actually addressed my initial question which was that if Flutie was that amazing of a QB and the Bills defense was one of the best in the league (which is undoubtedly was) why did the team have to come from behind in the 4th quarter so much?  I'll connect those dots for you since it seems to be difficult for you.  What I'm getting at is that the offense wasn't very good as Flutie's tenure at QB continued.  They didn't score very much, he turned the ball over a lot, and they struggled to move the ball for long periods of time.

 

Going back to my original point, if you loved Doug Flutie you better not have been chasing Tyrod Taylor out the door.

 

Stats per pro-football-reference.com

Doug Flutie 1999 - 15 starts

55.2% completion percentage, 19TDs, 16INTs, 3171 yards passing, 476yards rushing, 1 rushing TD, 6 fumbles, 2 game winning drives

 

Tyrod Taylor 2018 - 14 starts

62.6% completion percentage, 14TDs, 4INTs, 2799 yards passing, 427 yards rushing, 4 rushing TDs, 4 fumbles, 2 game winning drives

 

Flutie gets a pass around here that Taylor never got and there's a strong argument to be made that Flutie had a much better team at his disposal.  Flutie the myth is a much better football player than the actual Doug Flutie ever was and I think we are far enough removed from the situation that we can all set the rose colored glasses and boxes of cereal down to have a real conversation about that.

[TheFunPolice]

interesting...

 

How did Flutie become such a big name, for so long, with so many iconic moments in pro football, if he wasn't any good?

 

15 years from now will anybody but Bills fans even remember Tyrod Taylor or Rob Johnson?

 

We already know the answer, so it becomes about attacking Flutie, whose only sin here was being a star QB when the team needed to sell luxury boxes to remain in WNY.

Edited April 24, 2018 by TheFunPolice

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

interesting...

 

How did Flutie become such a big name, for so long, with so many iconic moments in pro football, if he wasn't any good?

 

15 years from now will anybody but Bills fans even remember Tyrod Taylor or Rob Johnson?

 

Because Flutie marketed himself.  As someone stated earlier ... he sought out the national exposure.  As much as I can't stand the prick, I'll give him props for creating a brand and pushing it.  He was a gimmick.  A novelty.   The little engine that "could."  It's a story that America will eat up every time and he took advantage.

 

The problem was that it was at anyone's cost - teammates, local media, fans.  All Flutie cares about is Flutie.  That's why he's such a dick.

[The Red King]

5 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

A. Having a son with autism has nothing to do with whether or not Flutie was a good QB or not unless unbeknownst to me he strapped his son to his shoulders in some sort of Master Blaster configuration in the 4th quarter of games.

B. Johnson stunk too so that's a non-starter of a conversation. Johnson or Flutie?  Neither. 

C. You never actually addressed my initial question which was that if Flutie was that amazing of a QB and the Bills defense was one of the best in the league (which is undoubtedly was) why did the team have to come from behind in the 4th quarter so much?  I'll connect those dots for you since it seems to be difficult for you.  What I'm getting at is that the offense wasn't very good as Flutie's tenure at QB continued.  They didn't score very much, he turned the ball over a lot, and they struggled to move the ball for long periods of time.

 

Going back to my original point, if you loved Doug Flutie you better not have been chasing Tyrod Taylor out the door.

 

Stats per pro-football-reference.com

Doug Flutie 1999 - 15 starts

55.2% completion percentage, 19TDs, 16INTs, 3171 yards passing, 476yards rushing, 1 rushing TD, 6 fumbles, 2 game winning drives

 

Tyrod Taylor 2018 - 14 starts

62.6% completion percentage, 14TDs, 4INTs, 2799 yards passing, 427 yards rushing, 4 rushing TDs, 4 fumbles, 2 game winning drives

 

Flutie gets a pass around here that Taylor never got and there's a strong argument to be made that Flutie had a much better team at his disposal.  Flutie the myth is a much better football player than the actual Doug Flutie ever was and I think we are far enough removed from the situation that we can all set the rose colored glasses and boxes of cereal down to have a real conversation about that.

 

The crux is, when the Bills needed 4th quarter comebacks, Flutie was able to deliver.  Tyrod couldn't.  That's the difference between them.  Crunch time came, Flutie doubled down and looked sharp.  TT on the other hand looked lost every time he had to run the two-minute drill with the game on the line.

 

...and I still have my 1st and 2nd edition unopened boxes of Flutie Flakes in the kitchen.  

[TheFunPolice]

if only Rob Johnson could have marketed himself... LOL

 

OK, I said my piece on this topic. This was a fun debate 20 years ago.

 

Flutie's career has stood the test of time. They just made a documentary about him for NFL Network. He is a star in the football world.

 

Rob Johnson is a footnote in the history of the Bills. Heck, many Bills fans probably don't even know who he is anymore, let alone fans of the sport in general.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by TheFunPolice

[That's No Moon]

2 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

The crux is, when the Bills needed 4th quarter comebacks, Flutie was able to deliver.  Tyrod couldn't.  That's the difference between them.  Crunch time came, Flutie doubled down and looked sharp.  TT on the other hand looked lost every time he had to run the two-minute drill with the game on the line.

 

...and I still have my 1st and 2nd edition unopened boxes of Flutie Flakes in the kitchen.  

Flutie had 7 game winning drives in 3 years as a Bill.  3 were in 2000 after he wasn't the starter anymore

Taylor had 5 in 3 years as a Bill.

 

Taylor had 13 more career starts so the percentage is in Flutie's favor for sure, but the narrative that Taylor never got it done is false.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

30 minutes ago, Epstein's Mother said:

 

We're not.  We're arguing about how much he sucked.  We don't know what his current suck factor is.

I think his comments to SI that the OP put up to start this thread tell us all we need to know.

[eball]

1 hour ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

Rob Johnson is a f***Ing loser why are we wasting oxygen talking about how much this bum sucks?

 

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact someone sat down at the computer, registered to join a Bills fan forum, thought to himself "what screen name should I choose" and came up with MILFHUNTER#518.

 

Although, I do remember the great posts from MILFHUNTER#352 and can understand why you were upset.

[TheFunPolice]

How does a thread about how pathetic Rob Johnson was/is have anything to do with Tyrod?

 

Tyrod worked his butt off here and earned the respect of his team. He may not be a great QB, but nobody questioned his desire or toughness. He showed his character in staying positive and being a team player even after taking a pay cut and then being benched for Peterman.

 

Rob was a part-time QB, entitled, injury prone, and divisive in the locker room. In short, he thought his mere presence here was enough to warrant him starting, and he is still whining about it 20 year later.

 

 

[The Red King]

Just now, TheFunPolice said:

How does a thread about how pathetic Rob Johnson was/is have anything to do with Tyrod?

 

Tyrod worked his butt off here and earned the respect of his team. He may not be a great QB, but nobody questioned his desire or toughness. He showed his character in staying positive and being a team player even after taking a pay cut and then being benched for Peterman.

 

Rob was a part-time QB, entitled, injury prone, and divisive in the locker room. In short, he thought his mere presence here was enough to warrant him starting, and he is still whining about it 20 year later.

 

 

 

Amen.  This thread has drift off-topic, reigniting the Johnson/Flutie debate and drifting into TT commentary, and yes I was guilty of helping derail it, too.  Regardless of opinions on Flutie or Tyrod, Johnson's comments referred to by the OP were distasteful and says a lot about him.  Even after 20 years he has not come to terms with what happened and still wants to put blame anywhere but himself.  He didn't ride the bench his whole career.  He got out onto the field.  He played.  He started.  And in the end he simply didn't perform well enough to keep the starting job.  That's on him, not on Flutie, not on Flutie's son.  C'mon Rob, man up and take a little responsibility.

[TheFunPolice]

Those comments were Rob Johnson in a nutshell: nasty, entitled, arrogant, mean-spirited, and blaming everyone but himself for his (multiple) failures.

 

I feel nothing but scorn for Rob. At least guys like EJ Manuel and JP Losman worked their butts off here and did everything they could. I have no ill will toward either of those guys. I knew people who became pretty close friends with Losman. If anything, he might have been a little too emotional and wanted it too much.

 

But Rob... LOL

Edited April 24, 2018 by TheFunPolice

[Sky Diver]

1 hour ago, Cynical said:

 

Hope you did some stretching before you tried to make that reach.

 

No stretching is required for a 5x improvement in performance.

[TheFunPolice]

If anything, Flutie should have been bitter...

 

The Bills go out and recruit him from the CFL, where he was revered and loved and won all the time. They sign him, make a big deal out of it, the whole 9 yards.

 

Then, they trade for Rob Johnson.

[Sky Diver]

21 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

If anything, Flutie should have been bitter...

 

The Bills go out and recruit him from the CFL, where he was revered and loved and won all the time. They sign him, make a big deal out of it, the whole 9 yards.

 

Then, they trade for Rob Johnson.

 

Yup. Then he keeps getting benched after outplaying RJ. 

 

Finally, they release him after he goes 4 - 1 and RJ goes 4 - 7.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Gordio]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 10:59 AM, Cynical said:

 

2 of them by Flutie, plus a pick.

But it was Moulds and Reed's fault.

 

 

 

That penalty by Reed would of been a total boneheaded play by a rookie let alone a season veteran.  Totally inexcusable to lose your composure at a time like that.  Cost the bills what most certainly been the tying TD & had to settle for a FG.  It would of been a totally different ball game if Reed would of just went back to the huddle. 

[Cynical]

2 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

No stretching is required for a 5x improvement in performance.

 

"Flutie just wins where ever he goes".

5-11 record. 8 TDs, 15 picks down the stretch. WINNING!

 

15 minutes ago, Gordio said:

That penalty by Reed would of been a total boneheaded play by a rookie let alone a season veteran.  Totally inexcusable to lose your composure at a time like that.  Cost the bills what most certainly been the tying TD & had to settle for a FG. 

 

So, the Bills managed to salvage 3 points on that drive from Reeds mistake.

Can you remind me again how many points the Bills were able to salvage after Flutie's 3 drive ending mistakes?

 

15 minutes ago, Gordio said:

It would of been a totally different ball game if Reed would of just went back to the huddle. 

 

Ah, the Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda game.

If only Flutie coughed up the ball 2 times instead of three. Especially that last one. That was not only a difference maker, that was a game killer.
 

[PatsFanNH]

18 hours ago, Cynical said:

 

2001 -San Diego. Started all 16 games. Team went 5-2 through the first 7 games, then promptly lost 9 straight to finish 5-11.

That's some kind of winning there.

 

During that 9 game losing stretch, DF threw 8 TDs and 15 picks, including 0 TD, 3 pick performance against the Raiders.

When questioned about the 3 picks, DF blamed the field conditions for one (WR slipped trying to reach back for a poorly thrown ball), a "lazy" DT on a another (DT played contained and plugged the passing lane. DF hit the DT right in the chest), and actually took responsibility for the third.

 

During the same 9 game losing stretch, DF did an interview where his poor play came up.

He denied he was playing poorly,  and could not believe people actually thought he was.

Why? Because he was third in the public portion of the pro bowl voting .

 

 

 

So you took 4 years out of his entire career. In the NFL he was  38-28 86 TD 68 INT.  In Buffalo he was  21-9 47 TD 30 INT.

 

lets not forget he played most of his career in the CFL because well teams were dumb back then on smaller QBs.   Innthe CFL he won numerous championships. But again, I asked who has buffalo had since Kelly who was better?? 

[Gordio]

9 minutes ago, Cynical said:

 

"Flutie just wins where ever he goes".

5-11 record. 8 TDs, 15 picks down the stretch. WINNING!

 

 

So, the Bills managed to salvage 3 points on that drive from Reeds mistake.

Can you remind me again how many points the Bills were able to salvage after Flutie's 3 drive ending mistakes?

 

 

Ah, the Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda game.

If only Flutie coughed up the ball 2 times instead of three. Especially that last one. That was not only a difference maker, that was a game killer.
 

 

 

Well if Reed didn't take that penalty costing the Bills 4 points that final drive the bills could of settled for a game winning chip shot FG instead of needing to score a TD.  & BTW most QBs in the league would of cough that football up in that situation.  Armstrong went unblocked & put his helmet right between Flute's chest.  I am hardly a Doug Flutie fan, but there is no question he was the better QB of the two.  I can't believe people even debate this.  Your arguments are beyond ridiculous imho.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

So you took 4 years out of his entire career. In the NFL he was  38-28 86 TD 68 INT.  In Buffalo he was  21-9 47 TD 30 INT.

 

lets not forget he played most of his career in the CFL because well teams were dumb back then on smaller QBs.   Innthe CFL he won numerous championships. But again, I asked who has buffalo had since Kelly who was better?? 

22-9. He doesn't get credit for that win over the Colts in 1998 because Johnson played a couple of plays before getting hurt (a la Cassell's "victory" in the 2015 opener), but Flutie was the winning qb in that game.

[The Jokeman]

9 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Well if Reed didn't take that penalty costing the Bills 4 points that final drive the bills could of settled for a game winning chip shot FG instead of needing to score a TD.  & BTW most QBs in the league would of cough that football up in that situation.  Armstrong went unblocked & put his helmet right between Flute's chest.  I am hardly a Doug Flutie fan, but there is no question he was the better QB of the two.  I can't believe people even debate this.  Your arguments are beyond ridiculous imho.

and if someone tackles Dyson on Homerun Throwup the Bills beat the Titans and fans love RJ for his ability to pull out a victory in the last minute much like Flutie did during his career. Instead Porter leaves his lane and we lose and people can cry that Flutie would have got us the win when there's no way we really know. 

 

11 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

22-9. He doesn't get credit for that win over the Colts in 1998 because Johnson played a couple of plays before getting hurt (a la Cassell's "victory" in the 2015 opener), but Flutie was the winning qb in that game.

Then why doesn't Flutie get credit for the loss against the Rams in 1998 when he came in for another injured RJ that we were up but Flutie couldn't kill the clock leading the Rams with Greg Hill and Tony Banks beat us in the final minutes?

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

and if someone tackles Dyson on Homerun Throwup the Bills beat the Titans and fans love RJ for his ability to pull out a victory in the last minute much like Flutie did during his career. Instead Porter leaves his lane and we lose and people can cry that Flutie would have got us the win when there's no way we really know. 

 

Then why doesn't Flutie get credit for the loss against the Rams in 1998 when he came in for another injured RJ that we were up but Flutie couldn't kill the clock leading the Rams with Greg Hill and Tony Banks beat us in the final minutes?

What are you talking about? Johnson was the QB on the Bills final possession before the Rams scored, and he's the one who didn't connect with Quinn Early on 3rd and 7. Flutie threw the final pass of the game - a hail mary. You're seriously not going to blame him for not completing that, right? 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199809200buf.htm

 

[The Jokeman]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

What are you talking about? Johnson was the QB on the Bills final possession before the Rams scored, and he's the one who didn't connect with Quinn Early on 3rd and 7. Flutie threw the final pass of the game - a hail mary. You're seriously not going to blame him for not completing that, right? 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199809200buf.htm

 

I remember Flutie getting in that game late, odd the box score he had 2 pass attempts but the play by play says he only passed once.

[dave mcbride]

7 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I remember Flutie getting in that game late, odd the box score he had 2 pass attempts but the play by play says he only passed once.

No biggie. 

[MILFHUNTER#518]

3 hours ago, eball said:

 

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact someone sat down at the computer, registered to join a Bills fan forum, thought to himself "what screen name should I choose" and came up with MILFHUNTER#518.

 

Although, I do remember the great posts from MILFHUNTER#352 and can understand why you were upset.

Just trying to blaze new trails eball!?

[Albany,n.y.]

This article should be a lesson for anyone who likes to quote QB stats.  I've always said stats don't tell the story and if stats were the end-all, the players would be handed a stat sheet at team meetings and told not to bother watching films.  Anyone who watched Flutie & Johnson play, knows that Flutie was a much better QB than Johnson.  

 

I must admit that 20 years ago I was in the Johnson camp, but I was proven wrong.   

[Gordio]

28 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

and if someone tackles Dyson on Homerun Throwup the Bills beat the Titans and fans love RJ for his ability to pull out a victory in the last minute much like Flutie did during his career. Instead Porter leaves his lane and we lose and people can cry that Flutie would have got us the win when there's no way we really know. 

 

Then why doesn't Flutie get credit for the loss against the Rams in 1998 when he came in for another injured RJ that we were up but Flutie couldn't kill the clock leading the Rams with Greg Hill and Tony Banks beat us in the final minutes?

 

 

Rob Johnson sucked in that Tenn playoff game.  Look at his stats, they were pathetic & a microcosm for his entire career in Buffalo. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Gordio

[Cynical]

27 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Well if Reed didn't take that penalty costing the Bills 4 points that final drive the bills could of settled for a game winning chip shot FG instead of needing to score a TD.  & BTW most QBs in the league would of cough that football up in that situation.  Armstrong went unblocked & put his helmet right between Flute's chest.  I am hardly a Doug Flutie fan, but there is no question he was the better QB of the two.  I can't believe people even debate this.  Your arguments are beyond ridiculous imho.

 

 

1. I never said RJ was better than DF. I just find it laughable when people think DF was a "good" QB.

2. There are many "ridiculous" arguments in this thread. The worst? "Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda".

 

"Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda" arguments rely on the belief if a play, or a series of plays, were changed to a desired outcome, everything else about the game would stay the same.

That's a ridiculous assumption to make. But you wanted to play it, so I played. My "Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda" is just as ridiculous as yours.

 

[KD in CA]

46 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Rob Johnson sucked in that Tenn playoff game.  Look at his stats, they were pathetic & a microcosm for his entire career in Buffalo. 

 

Yup.   The 'he left the field with a lead' arguement is among the worst recurring things posted on this board.  

 

[Cynical]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

So you took 4 years out of his entire career. In the NFL he was  38-28 86 TD 68 INT.  In Buffalo he was  21-9 47 TD 30 INT.

 

Remember when you said this?

"Ya lol he did was win everywhere he went ..."

 

Doug Flutie went to San Diego. He didn't win.

 

 

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

 

lets not forget he played most of his career in the CFL because well teams were dumb back then on smaller QBs.   Innthe CFL he won numerous championships. But again, I asked who has buffalo had since Kelly who was better?? 

 

What he did in the CFL, and whether or not he was the best QB on the Bills since Kelly, are meaningless, if you are trying to make the case he was a "good" NFL QB.

 

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

On 4/23/2018 at 9:34 AM, Sky Diver said:

 

Flutie had a 70% winning percentage and Johnson had a 34.5% winning percentage.

 

Flutie was 8 - 3 in 1998 and Johnson was 2 - 3. Flutie made the Pro-Bowl that year.

 

Flutie was 10 - 5 in 1999.

 

Flutie was 4 - 1 in 2000, Johnson was 4 - 7.

 

Flutie was released after the 2000 season and the Bills went 3 - 13 in 2001.

1) Football is a team sport, he had a great team around him.

 

2) Want to go by wins/losses, he lost every NFL playoff game he was in, the one where he fumbled the ball away on the 5 yrd line to end the game.

 

3) Flutie completed 54.7% of his NFL passes, with an 76 QB Rating, never passed for more than 3450 yards.

 

4) Flutie sucked, he was a dynamic fan favorite but is wildly overrated QB (really just by Bill fans)  on a ills team with probably the best defense the team every had in its history

 

5) Flutie sucked..

[The Jokeman]

On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 3:27 PM, RoyBatty is alive said:

1) Football is a team sport, he had a great team around him.

 

2) Want to go by wins/losses, he lost every NFL playoff game he was in, the one where he fumbled the ball away on the 5 yrd line to end the game.

 

3) Flutie completed 54.7% of his NFL passes, with an 76 QB Rating, never passed for more than 3450 yards.

 

4) Flutie sucked, he was a dynamic fan favorite but is wildly overrated QB (really just by Bill fans)  on a ills team with probably the best defense the team every had in its history

 

5) Flutie sucked..

He also lost a playoff game for the 1986 Bears but people don't want to look back at his previous stint in the NFL when he played horribly too.

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by The Jokeman

[PatsFanNH]

6 hours ago, Cynical said:

 

Remember when you said this?

"Ya lol he did was win everywhere he went ..."

 

Doug Flutie went to San Diego. He didn't win.

 

 

 

What he did in the CFL, and whether or not he was the best QB on the Bills since Kelly, are meaningless, if you are trying to make the case he was a "good" NFL QB.

 

 

Your right, when he got old Like every QB not named Brady he wasn’t able will his teams to Victory. You still never answered the question. Almost like your avoiding it. Lol

6 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

1) Football is a team sport, he had a great team around him.

 

2) Want to go by wins/losses, he lost every NFL playoff game he was in, the one where he fumbled the ball away on the 5 yrd line to end the game.

 

3) Flutie completed 54.7% of his NFL passes, with an 76 QB Rating, never passed for more than 3450 yards.

 

4) Flutie sucked, he was a dynamic fan favorite but is wildly overrated QB (really just by Bill fans)  on a ills team with probably the best defense the team every had in its history

 

5) Flutie sucked..

Ok if football is a team sport, the. How can you blame him for a loss? You can’t have it both ways just to try and make your argument. Truth is he won many championships up in Canada.

 

#3 stat sounds bad but out with his peers he was middle of the road on those stats. Not elite not awful. Again past his prime.

 

#4 if he sucked and had such a great D why the. Did he win and Johnson (whontruly sucked!) lose? 

 

Simple fact is he was a decent WB who when finally getting his chance in the NFL was older and already past his prime. 

[Augie]

I hope he still has money. 

[stony]

13 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Your right, when he got old Like every QB not named Brady he wasn’t able will his teams to Victory. You still never answered the question. Almost like your avoiding it. Lol

Ok if football is a team sport, the. How can you blame him for a loss? You can’t have it both ways just to try and make your argument. Truth is he won many championships up in Canada.

 

#3 stat sounds bad but out with his peers he was middle of the road on those stats. Not elite not awful. Again past his prime.

 

#4 if he sucked and had such a great D why the. Did he win and Johnson (whontruly sucked!) lose? 

 

Simple fact is he was a decent WB who when finally getting his chance in the NFL was older and already past his prime. 

It's the CFL, not the NHL.  You don't get credit for wins in Canada.  

 

EDIT: Crap...Gotta throw in a disclaimer that I love Canada. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by stony

[Sky Diver]

9 hours ago, stony said:

It's the CFL, not the NHL.  You don't get credit for wins in Canada.  

 

EDIT: Crap...Gotta throw in a disclaimer that I love Canada. 

 

Is that the Molson's talking?