Rob Johnson is still bitter after 20 years

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

RJ was a 4th rd pick. The Bills liked him because of one good career start and because he could spin the ball. The Jags fleeced us.

 

I liked him because he was exciting to watch and he found ways to win games. He had a 70% winning percentage with the Bills.

 

 

I really liked Flutie in his first year here. After that his arm seemed to go and he couldn't throw the deep outs anymore and teams were able to strangle him by not covering the routes he could no longer throw. 

 

It wasn't Flutie who won those games. It was the Buffalo Bills. That's how it always is. Wins are a team stat.

 

And part of winning is also who you beat. The teams we beat with Flutie starting were not exactly a murderer's row.

 

 

 

1999 (Bills had the16th best scoring offense, 2nd best defensive scoring allowed)

 

Indy 13-3 (loss)

Jets 8-8 (win, loss)

Philly 5-11 (win)

Miami 9-7 (win, win)

Pitt 6-10 (win)

Oak 8-8 (loss)

Seattle 9-7 (loss)

Balt 8-8 (win)

Wash 10-6 (win)

New Eng 8-8 (win, win)

NYG 7-9 (loss)

Ariz 6-10 (win)

 

 

2000 (Bills had the 20th best scoring offense, 18th best defensive scoring allowed. That was a terrific defense.)

 

Minny 11-5 (loss)

Jets 9-7 (win)

Patriots 5-11 (win)

Bears 5-11 (win)

Seattle 6-10 (win)

 

 

Not that Johnson was a great QB either. But he was a bit better than Flutie after the Dougster's arm went downhill.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Sky Diver]

Flutie’s winning percentage with the Bills: 70%

Johnson’s winning percentage with the Bills: 34.5%

 

in 2000, Flutie was 4 - 1, Johnson was 4 - 7.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Sky Diver

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

Flutie’s winning percentage with the Bills: 70%

Johnson’s winning percentage with the Bills: 34.5%

 

in 2000, Flutie was 4 - 1, Johnson was 4 - 7.

If Flutie was such a superior player then why was he dealt? 

[SouthNYfan]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If Flutie was such a superior player then why was he dealt? 

 

He was a huge d*ckwad.

That's a big factor.

He was also 38.

[Just Jack]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

I’m still bitter we traded for this bum and shafted Flutie.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/08/rob_johnson_still_seems_upset_about_losing_buffalo_bills_qb_job_to_doug_flutie.amp

 

Really? Still want to discuss and article from a year ago aboutnsomething from 20 years ago? Is there no current news to discuss?

 

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

This guy is on one hell of a crusade.

FROM 1999.

Troll. Pure troll, and can't even be debated.

 

 

I agree. Needs to dig up old articles that have already been discussed just to rehash everyone’s opinions again. 

[billsfan1959]

I was not a big fan of either QB; however, I think the bitterness RJ felt at the time was somewhat justified. I also think he should have moved past it a long time ago. Again, not a fan of either: RJ had all the physical tools, yet, even had things turned out differently in that playoff game, I am not sure he would have developed into what the Bills hoped for when they traded for him and, given how long he has held onto things, I don't believe he ever had the mental toughness. As for Flutie, well, he was always going to be about himself first and never above sacrificing the good of the team for his own ambitions. 

[dpberr]

RJ=Uncle Rico meme in 2018

[Hapless Bills Fan]

50 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

How did he manage to have a 70% winning percentage while destroying the locker room? It sounds nothing short of miraculous if true.

 

Wins and losses are not a QB Stat. 

3 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

Really? Still want to discuss and article from a year ago aboutnsomething from 20 years ago? Is there no current news to discuss?

 

I will grant that it makes a pleasant change from reading about "LOLmar" and "Mayfailed"

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

Johnson conned Wilson (who likened RJ to "a Monet") into wasting millions on this slow adult.

 

He lost his job to Flutie (an infinitely smarter and tougher man) when he got injured....falling on a football.

[Sky Diver]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wins and losses are not a QB Stat. 

 

I will grant that it makes a pleasant change from reading about "LOLmar" and "Mayfailed"

 

 

 

 

“In the NFL, the quarterback is the only position that is credited with records of wins and losses.”

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_career_quarterback_wins_leaders

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Johnson conned Wilson (who likened RJ to "a Monet") into wasting millions on this slow adult.

 

He lost his job to Flutie (an infinitely smarter and tougher man) when he got injured....falling on a football.

 

More like a Moan-et.

[MJS]

Flutie wasn't a franchise QB, but he did win a lot of games for the Bills.

 

And I don't understand everyone who says he was a jerk. He wanted to play. Everyone in the NFL is like that. They want to play and they do everything they can to play. Good for him if he was able to manipulate people to get himself on the field. Better than being a nice guy and holding a clip board for your whole career.

[Sky Diver]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Flutie wasn't a franchise QB, but he did win a lot of games for the Bills.

 

And I don't understand everyone who says he was a jerk. He wanted to play. Everyone in the NFL is like that. They want to play and they do everything they can to play. Good for him if he was able to manipulate people to get himself on the field. Better than being a nice guy and holding a clip board for your whole career.

 

Some hack reporter named Bucky said he was a jerk so it must be true.

 

I’m wondering what Chip, Biff, and Skip had to say about Flutie.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Gugny]

Just now, MJS said:

Flutie wasn't a franchise QB, but he did win a lot of games for the Bills.

 

And I don't understand everyone who says he was a jerk. He wanted to play. Everyone in the NFL is like that. They want to play and they do everything they can to play. Good for him if he was able to manipulate people to get himself on the field. Better than being a nice guy and holding a clip board for your whole career.

 

Good QBs don't have to manipulate others in order to play.  Good QBs don't make excuses like, "people expect more from me because I'm black."  Good QBs play well and earn starting jobs ... and they keep them.

[2003Contenders]

30 minutes ago, stevewin said:

Rolling this out again - every time this debate gets resurrected...

 

http://buffalonews.com/2001/10/25/its-time-for-the-truth-about-flutie/

 

I think the key point was: "Anyway, when it's all added up, the Bills' defense did more for the team's success than anything Flutie accomplished. "

 

I remember, especially in 1999, when the offense would struggle and the defense would keep the team in games. Flutie and the offense would manage to pull out a 13-10 type game with a late scoring drive, and the press would marvel over "Flutie Magic". RJ certainly wasn't the answer. He was everything you wanted from a physical standpoint: big, strong-armed, accurate, mobile. He just never developed any sort of pocket presence; he had no "timer" in his head and was missing natural instincts. Many of his knock-out hits came as a result of him running full speed into an on-coming pass rusher. 

 

Flutie's was a nice story: an underdog who seemed to make good in 1998. Even if he didn't play as well as his mythical reputation in Buffalo would suggest, the truth is that he did play well enough during that stretch back in 1998 when the future of the team's viability in Buffalo truly was in question. The PR folks at OBD were happy to promote the Flutie myth in exchange for unprecedented box seat sales. In the process they helped the already outlandish Flutie ego to get out of control. Every game the Bills won back then was because of "Flutie Magic", and every game they lost was someone else's fault. And Doug had no problem throwing his team mates under the bus, either. Had Dougie been saddled with the horrific defenses backing him up that, say, Fitz endured, Flutie's time in Buffalo would have just been another footnote.

[MJS]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Good QBs don't have to manipulate others in order to play.  Good QBs don't make excuses like, "people expect more from me because I'm black."  Good QBs play well and earn starting jobs ... and they keep them.

 

I never said he was good. I said he wanted to play, like everyone else in the league.

 

There are plenty of stories of backup QB's who are disgruntled and want to play. Steve Young, for one.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, MJS said:

Flutie wasn't a franchise QB, but he did win a lot of games for the Bills.

 

And I don't understand everyone who says he was a jerk. He wanted to play. Everyone in the NFL is like that. They want to play and they do everything they can to play. Good for him if he was able to manipulate people to get himself on the field. Better than being a nice guy and holding a clip board for your whole career.

 

....strictly opinion, but never could stand Flutie.....he thought he was the greatest invention since beer....just ask 'em......and Rob still bitter after 20 years?.....pretty sure the TBD sentiment is the same Bandana Boy.........

[Gugny]

Just now, MJS said:

 

I never said he was good. I said he wanted to play, like everyone else in the league.

 

There are plenty of stories of backup QB's who are disgruntled and want to play. Steve Young, for one.

 

Of course Steve Young wanted to play and yes - most backups feel they should be starters.  However, Steve Young - and most other backups - handled it with professionalism and eventually got their chances.  Flutie didn't handle it like that.  Not even close.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

[MJS]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

Of course Steve Young wanted to play and yes - most backups feel they should be starters.  However, Steve Young - and most other backups - handled it with professionalism and eventually got their chances.  Flutie didn't handle it like that.  Not even close.

 

Steve Young complained about it all the time and thought about quitting all the time. He was as frustrated and vocal a backup as there ever was.

[NewEra]

I hated Doug Flutie.  I didn’t like RJ, but I hated Flutie.  And his Flutie Flakes.  

[stony]

48 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

Flutie’s winning percentage with the Bills: 70%

Johnson’s winning percentage with the Bills: 34.5%

 

in 2000, Flutie was 4 - 1, Johnson was 4 - 7.

But more importantly, what were their ACT scores?

[Gugny]

19 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Steve Young complained about it all the time and thought about quitting all the time. He was as frustrated and vocal a backup as there ever was.

 

I don't recall this.  I recall him being Montana's imminent replacement and not dividing the locker room while he waited.  I never heard of him wanting to quit football.

[Sky Diver]

It’s interesting that top prospects get compared with Doug Flutie.

 

Who ever said that a top prospect reminded him of Rob Johnson?

Edited April 22, 2018 by Sky Diver

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

It’s interesting that top prospects get compared with Doug Flutie.

 

Who ever said that a top prospect reminded him of Rob Johnson?

 

...I believe there was ONE comparison to Cereal Boy and that would be Mayfield......others??........hell we could see "Baker's croissants" next.............

Edited April 22, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[The Red King]

Thing is, we were desperate for a franchise QB.  And while many people debated the coach's decision to start RJ for the Titans game, nobody blamed RJ for losing it.  That was on the coach for taking the time out at three seconds instead of two, leaving one on the clock...and on the special teams who had one job (let him return it anywhere, even the one-yard line...anywhere but the end zone).  As a result, people wanted to believe in RJ.  People wanted him to succeed, to be the franchise QB we desperately needed.  A lot of fans were willing to overlook his flaws and shortcomings at first because of that desperate desire.  But in the end, RJ just didn't get it done.  It was not Flutie's fault he didn't succeed in Buffalo, it was his.  Young grew up in Montana's shadow and outgrew it.  Rodgers grew up in Farve's shadow and outgrew it.  Brady grew up in Bledsoe's shadow and outgrew it.  RJ might have been in Flutie's shadow, but he had ample opportunity to outgrow it.  Unlike the examples mentioned above, who outgrew better QBs then Flutie, RJ failed.  That's on him.

[Sky Diver]

24 minutes ago, stony said:

But more importantly, what were their ACT scores?

 

Flutie was a Rhodes Scholarship finalist and won a National Football Foundation post-graduate scholarship.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Virgil]

We also had a top 3 defense those years. Even the games Flutie won, we weren’t scoring a lot. He just pulled them out in dynamic fashion.  I remember back to back wins, one of them being a QB roll out by him that was a miscommunication handoff. 

[Sky Diver]

Drew Brees turned to Flutie for inspiration.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/drew-brees-turned-to-doug-flutie-early-in-his-career-071015

 

Can you name a QB that modeled their game after Johnson?

[Utah John]

The thing is, they were both flawed.  We wanted desperately to have one of them be The Guy but neither had what it takes.

 

Flutie might have been a jerk.  OK, that's bad, but how well could he play?  He was OK.  He played like a smart QB with a limited arm and good athletic ability should play.  He focused on moving the chains and staying in good down and distance.  With a strong defense, which the Bills had, he could help the team win.  But he wasn't the guy to take them to a SB win.  Sorry, but when you get into the playoffs the softies are gone and the QB really has to make plays with his arm, and Flutie was not the guy for that.

 

Johnson had no pocket awareness.   He had an above-average arm and a good concept of the game plan.  Even with all that, he wasn't the guy to take them to a SB win either.

 

The bottom line is we're all arguing about something pointless.  Neither was good enough.  At certain things one guy was better than the other, but neither was good enough.

[Sky Diver]

5 minutes ago, Utah John said:

The thing is, they were both flawed.  We wanted desperately to have one of them be The Guy but neither had what it takes.

 

Flutie might have been a jerk.  OK, that's bad, but how well could he play?  He was OK.  He played like a smart QB with a limited arm and good athletic ability should play.  He focused on moving the chains and staying in good down and distance.  With a strong defense, which the Bills had, he could help the team win.  But he wasn't the guy to take them to a SB win.  Sorry, but when you get into the playoffs the softies are gone and the QB really has to make plays with his arm, and Flutie was not the guy for that.

 

Johnson had no pocket awareness.   He had an above-average arm and a good concept of the game plan.  Even with all that, he wasn't the guy to take them to a SB win either.

 

The bottom line is we're all arguing about something pointless.  Neither was good enough.  At certain things one guy was better than the other, but neither was good enough.

 

Who knows. If Flutie doesn’t get pulled for the playoff game against TN, maybe they go to the SB and win.

[The Red King]

Just now, Sky Diver said:

 

Who knows. If Flutie doesn’t get pulled for the playoff game against TN, maybe they go to the SB and win.

 

Hmm, earlier I said...

 

Quote

And while many people debated the coach's decision to start RJ for the Titans game, nobody blamed RJ for losing it.  That was on the coach for taking the time out at three seconds instead of two, leaving one on the clock...and on the special teams who had one job (let him return it anywhere, even the one-yard line...anywhere but the end zone).

 

...I stand corrected.  Apparently at least one person does... 

[Sky Diver]

16 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

Hmm, earlier I said...

 

 

...I stand corrected.  Apparently at least one person does... 

 

Who blamed Johnson. Maybe if Flutie plays the Bills are 2 Tds ahead.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Koko78]

Quote

Despite Flutie's accolades, Johnson told Sports Illustrated that he felt he should have been the team's starting quarterback in 1999 based on his stats.

 

"My stats [in 1998] were better than his, but his win-loss record was better than mine."

 

A focus on his stats was (and is), to me, the biggest problem with Robosack. He was more interested in protecting his stats than winning the game. Even the announcers would point out during games that he would run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage (giving a statistical sack to the offensive line) to avoid getting rid of the ball by throwing an incomplete pass, reducing his completion %.

 

He was gutless, which is a shame - he could have been the better QB of the two, by far. Johnson played to protect his stats, while Flutie made things happen on the field to win.

[Buffalo Boy]

2 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

RJ was a 4th rd pick. The Bills liked him because of one good career start and because he could spin the ball. The Jags fleeced us.

 

I liked him because he was exciting to watch and he found ways to win games. He had a 70% winning percentage with the Bills.

Ted Cottell’s defenses won us that 70% mark.

[billsfan1959]

12 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Who blamed Johnson. Maybe if Flutie plays the Bills are 2 Tds ahead.

Is Flutie your father or are you just on a random crusade?

[Buffalo Boy]

2 hours ago, Epstein's Mother said:

 

I remember leaving that game thinking finally, this guy is gonna be the franchise QB the Bills had been looking for.  He was impressive as hell that day.  Then...  well you know the rest.

The game itself was great!!! The defense on both sides was rocking!!!! When they have shown it on replay I watch it because it is still fun to watch...... till HRTB

[ExWNYer]

46 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I don't recall this.  I recall him being Montana's imminent replacement and not dividing the locker room while he waited.  I never heard of him wanting to quit football.

 

Much like Flutie and Johnson, there was a lot of animosity between Young and Montana. They definitely didn't like one another. The difference was that they were both phenomenal, Super Bowl winning QBs unlike Flutie and Johnson who were whiny, journeyman, nobodies.

[Buffalo Boy]

2 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

You appear to be forgetting a couple of critical elements of the Miami game.

 

1. Mounds fumbled away a near certain TD on the Miami 12 yrd line after a 65 yrd pass play.

2. Andre Reed bumped the referee after he was called down on Miami’s 1 yrd line and earned an ejection and a 15 yrd penalty. The Bills had to settle for a FG.

3. The Bills committed 9 penalties and had 4 fumbles.

 

How about Flutie throwing a pick in the EZ....?

You seem to have left that gem out.

[Sky Diver]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Ted Cottell’s defenses won us that 70% mark.

 

And it won Johnson a 34.5% winning percentage?

[Epstein's Mother]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Boy said:

The game itself was great!!! The defense on both sides was rocking!!!! When they have shown it on replay I watch it because it is still fun to watch...... till HRTB

 

I'm talking primarily about the Colts game the last week of the season.