Article about Mahomes trade, negotiations with Whaley for pick

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

Yeah because teams never get rid of Veterans for the promising rookie/1st year player and then see that player fail.

 

I mean just looking at the Bills - they didn’t get rid of Bledsoe to allow JP to start or Fitzpatrick to move on to EJ or anything.

 

It happens that teams move on from Veterans to save money and assume the young QB will be ok.

 

I think Mahomes will be average, but I think they overall will not be as good without the veteran leadership.  Mahomes screams average.  Many great plays and many bonehead throws for turnovers. 

 

Of of course they are all in - just as Whaley was all in on EJ until he wasn’t - it cost the Bills coaching staff and was consuming of a ton of effort until finally a HC took over with more power.  KC will suffer only because the HC made this choice with his power and then de facto took over as GM as they moved Dorsey out.  Reid is all in because he has no choice - this is his guy.

 

 

Comparing EJ and Whaley to Mahomes and Reid is a biiiiiiiiiiiiit of a REACH. If you're being honest and have paid attention to what KC has said and done in the past 8 months don't yah kinda get a feeling that they might have something with Mahomes?

 

Can't crown them yet for the move but they sure have my attention.

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

I wanted Russell Wilson, Mahomes, honestly wasn't a big fan of Watson he surprised me. I was all in on Wentz. I will admit I like Bortles went to UCF so I am Biased. Way too many talented QBs that Buffalo has let slip through their fingers so they can draft CB and RB and WR in the first round. Kind of ridiculous if you look at it.

[HappyDays]

36 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Right, but trading Alex Smith would also seem to indicate their faith in Mahomes is genuine, misplaced or not.

 

I'm sure they have faith in Mahomes but i don't think trading Smith has anything to do with it. They obviously have been hyping Mahomes as the savior and they want to get that era started sooner rather than later. Smith's value wouldn't have ever been higher so they traded him while they could.

[John from Riverside]

35 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

.....Yes....there is no reason for HYPE....they are actually all in on the guy....trading a pro bowl QB, with a year left at a reasonable 20 million ought to tell you way more than anything myself or some pundit could SAY.  They BELIEVE it....and so do I.

Go ahead and  believe.......its just not been proven yet.

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

I do not fully understand why Mahomes get's treated like a start when he hasn't really shown anything yet... (not attacking, just saying)

I don’t either. I think the Chiefs will be looking for a new QB within 3 years.

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Comparing EJ and Whaley to Mahomes and Reid is a biiiiiiiiiiiiit of a REACH. If you're being honest and have paid attention to what KC has said and done in the past 8 months don't yah kinda get a feeling that they might have something with Mahomes?

 

Mahomes is pretty similar to EJ coming out except Mahomes has a stronger arm. Same issues with mechanics, decision making under pressure, "area code" accuracy. At least the Chiefs did the right thing sitting him for the year but history shows QBs with those problems in college don't fix them in the pros. He only played in one game last year and looked very mediocre. 284 yards on 35 attempts with no TDs and 1 INT. Meh.

[dave mcbride]

49 minutes ago, Yav said:

Meh - I don't see Mahomes being much more than an average QB. 

I'm not talking about Mahomes. 

[Rochesterfan]

10 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Comparing EJ and Whaley to Mahomes and Reid is a biiiiiiiiiiiiit of a REACH. If you're being honest and have paid attention to what KC has said and done in the past 8 months don't yah kinda get a feeling that they might have something with Mahomes?

 

Can't crown them yet for the move but they sure have my attention.

 

 

I have - I think Reid is the better HC and Mahomes a better prospect, but look at what Buffalo did to try and prop up EJ.  2 first round picks for Watkins - that didn’t scream all in?

 

The Chiefs have added some weapons, but their defense is not as good - so look for them to try and win shoot outs - which opens Mahomes up to more turn overs.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

This is a Bills board. We don’t give 2 ***** about the Chiefs or Mahomes

 

All you do is post about Mahomes who has done ****

 

Dont let the door hit ya on the way out

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

21 minutes ago, buffalobloodfloridahome said:

I wanted Russell Wilson, Mahomes, honestly wasn't a big fan of Watson he surprised me. I was all in on Wentz. I will admit I like Bortles went to UCF so I am Biased. Way too many talented QBs that Buffalo has let slip through their fingers so they can draft CB and RB and WR in the first round. Kind of ridiculous if you look at it.

I loved Watson and his game tape passing the football is amazing. He needs to stay in the pocket where he is protected and only take off and run on obvious big gainers but slide early regardless of getting the 1st down or TD. 

 

Watson will be my 1st QB drafted in FFL and I'm hoping to get him in the 4th rd.

 

Lamar Jackson on the other hand I wouldn't spend a draft pick on him until the 3rd rd.

 

Allen has the highest ceiling and the lowest floor. Basically I would stay away from Allen and Jackson.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Call_Of_Ktulu

[Rochesterfan]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Mahomes is pretty similar to EJ coming out except Mahomes has a stronger arm. Same issues with mechanics, decision making under pressure, "area code" accuracy. At least the Chiefs did the right thing sitting him for the year but history shows QBs with those problems in college don't fix them in the pros. He only played in one game last year and looked very mediocre. 284 yards on 35 attempts with no TDs and 1 INT. Meh.

 

 

Agreed - that is why according to many analysts- Mahomes would be the 6th or 7th QB taken behind guys like Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen, and with Rudolph and Jackson.

 

I think Mahomes rocket up the boards last year would have been de-railed by Allen who has the stronger arm and many of the same flaws.

[Rico]

59 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

They all knew they were done after the draft, it was widely reported. Someone in the FO even said, yeah after the draft we are all gone....

 

The Bills would never say how it was handled btw....

I'm sure Whaley was told in no uncertain terms after THE press conference that he was gone after the draft. No need for him to rock the boat afterwards, he still is getting a nice paycheck.

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

This is a Bills board. We don’t give 2 ***** about the Chiefs or Mahomes

 

All you do is post about Mahomes who has done ****

 

Dont let the door hit ya on the way out

Shouldn't the Bills be paying attention to how other teams draft and develop QBs and which  flaws are fixable? 

 

 

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Shouldn't the Bills be paying attention to how other teams draft and develop QBs and which  flaws are fixable? 

 

 

 

Drafting and developing QBs is over 70 years old... if we don’t have it down at this point and we look at other teams for confirmation we are screwed

 

the Bills just don’t take shots at Blue Chip prospects. 3 First round QBs in our History... and 2 were reaches. That’s why we are where we are... we don’t take enough shots

 

KC developing Mahomes has nothing to do with us because players develop different everywhere... Mahomes would develop differently in Buffalo with our coaching staff and differently in Cleveland with their staff

 

Every QB coach knows which flaws are fixable 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Buffalo716

[CommonCents]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

Drafting and developing QBs is over 70 years old... if we don’t have it down at this point and we look at other teams for confirmation we are screwed

 

the Bills just don’t take shots at Blue Chip prospects. 3 First round QBs in our History... That’s why we are where we are... we don’t take enough shots

 

KC developing Mahomes has nothing to do with us because players develop different everywhere... Mahomes would develop differently in Buffalo with our coaching staff and differently in Cleveland with their staff

 

Every QB coach knows which flaws are fixable 

I'm under the impression OBD knows nothing about the QB position, hoping that all changes on April 26th. Maybe that made KC and Houston's decision easier last year? They did the opposite of what was going on at OBD and hey lookey here they now have young QBs. 

 

 

[corta765]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

I do not fully understand why Mahomes get's treated like a start when he hasn't really shown anything yet... (not attacking, just saying)

 

Agreed. Mahomes has played exactly one game and looked like a rookie. Some good some bad literally nothing more you could gather without seeing a full season.

8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Drafting and developing QBs is over 70 years old... if we don’t have it down at this point and we look at other teams for confirmation we are screwed

 

the Bills just don’t take shots at Blue Chip prospects. 3 First round QBs in our History... and 2 were reaches. That’s why we are where we are... we don’t take enough shots

 

KC developing Mahomes has nothing to do with us because players develop different everywhere... Mahomes would develop differently in Buffalo with our coaching staff and differently in Cleveland with their staff

 

Every QB coach knows which flaws are fixable 

 

The Bills in general don't draft enough QB's forget the 1st round round. The 2011 draft I sat there stunned when the Bills who desperately needed a QB wouldn't even take a shot at Dalton or Kapernick both 2nd round guys. We are notorious for settling and committing too quickly rather then bringing more competition.

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

I'm under the impression OBD knows nothing about the QB position, hoping that all changes on April 26th. Maybe that made KC and Houston's decision easier last year? They did the opposite of what was going on at OBD and hey lookey here they now have young QBs. 

 

 

 

Every regime we have is different but you can certainly make the case OBD has had no clue about the QB position for most of its existence 

5 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

Agreed. Mahomes has played exactly one game and looked like a rookie. Some good some bad literally nothing more you could gather without seeing a full season.

 

The Bills in general don't draft enough QB's forget the 1st round round. The 2011 draft I sat there stunned when the Bills who desperately needed a QB wouldn't even take a shot at Dalton or Kapernick both 2nd round guys. We are notorious for settling and committing too quickly rather then bringing more competition.

 

I agree. The Bills follow the strategy of pound  The rock, try to play good defense, and settle for the best backup in the NFL as your starter 

 

we have tried that too much recently with TT and Fitz ... going back to trading a first for the backup Rob Johnson

[CommonCents]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

Every regime we have is different but you can certainly make the case OBD has had no clue about the QB position for most of its existence 

I like Beane so far but to be honest I don't even know who the QB coach is anymore. Does he have any success on his resume that shows improvement of any one QB? f so that would give me hope. 

 

If Mahomes comes out blazing and his footwork is much improved that should make staffs think twice about sitting a rookie for an entire season or not. That's all I'm trying to say. 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Commonsense said:

I like Beane so far but to be honest I don't even know who the QB coach is anymore. Does he have any success on his resume that shows improvement of any one QB? f so that would give me hope. 

 

If Mahomes comes out blazing and his footwork is much improved that should make staffs think twice about sitting a rookie for an entire season or not. That's all I'm trying to say. 

 

David Culley is our QB coach and many dislike it because he spent the majority of his career as a WR coach

 

But in my coaching circles I hear nothing but great things about Culley. I’ve seen WR coaches become great QB coaches and vice versa... and it’s not like Culley has never worked with QBs before, he has . He is very well respected 

 

He is also a Reid disciple 

[CommonCents]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

David Culley is our QB coach and many dislike it because he spent the majority of his career as a WR coach

 

But in my coaching circles I hear nothing but great things about Culley. I’ve seen WR coaches become great QB coaches and vice versa... and it’s not like Culley has never worked with QBs before, he has . He is very well respected 

 

He is also a Reid disciple 

I like that he has been around Reid, just don't let him call any plays! 

[xxxxxxxx]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

I argued for Mahomes a lot and Watson some last year.  Just increases the pressure to get a franchise qb in this draft.  I really doubt Mahomes is going to fail, but you need both he and Watson to turn out poor to mediocre for passing on them not to be a factor in judging the acumen of the present regime, though Whaley's status and the flux of new folk are perhaps mitigating factors as well.

Scheme and coaching also matter. I'm a big Mahomes fan, but I don't see him fitting in well with the current system/coaching staff. Kansas City has him in a better position to succeed, as Andy Reid has developed similar QB's. Like Watson, he is likely to run into turnover issues, and our coaches clearly don't like that at all. It all really starts with the Pegula's and the kind of organization that they are putting in place - when you keep hiring defensive minded coaches, your not placing much of a priority on developing a QB (Jeff Fisher failed over and over again, for example). Clearly, the FO wants someone who does not have to be developed much (because they don't know how to develop someone, anyway). I'm not complaining about this, either. You need the right system in place to take a guy like pat at 10. Or else you can screw it up, easily. Which is what we did with EJ, by the way.

Edited April 16, 2018 by MURPHD6

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

I like that he has been around Reid, just don't let him call any plays! 

 

I do really like the Reid connection... he is a great coach and mentor

 

they spent over 10 years together 

[YoloinOhio]

42 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

This is a Bills board. We don’t give 2 ***** about the Chiefs or Mahomes

 

All you do is post about Mahomes who has done ****

 

Dont let the door hit ya on the way out

might be JeffisMagic’s new account 

[Dr. Who]

12 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

Scheme and coaching also matter. I'm a big Mahomes fan, but I don't see him fitting in well with the current system/coaching staff. Kansas City has him in a better position to succeed, as Andy Reid has developed similar QB's. Like Watson, he is likely to run into turnover issues, and our coaches clearly don't like that at all. It all really starts with the Pegula's and the kind of organization that they are putting in place - when you keep hiring defensive minded coaches, your not placing much of a priority on developing a QB (Jeff Fisher failed over and over again, for example). Clearly, the FO wants someone who does not have to be developed much (because they don't know how to develop someone, anyway). I'm not complaining about this, either. You need the right system in place to take a guy like pat at 10. Or else you can screw it up, easily. Which is what we did with EJ, by the way.

Yes, I agree with much of this, but one has to hope the current regime can develop a qb or there is little room for optimism.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Dr. Who

[Logic]

This has already been stated a few times in this thread, but I think it's an important notion to remember, and I think it's fully accurate:

Head coaches often sink or swim based on the success or failure of the quarterback they draft. I believe very strongly that McDermott knew that Whaley was out after that draft and that the Bills would be turning over basically their entire scouting department. I also believe that McDermott wanted to come in and begin turning over the roster and setting up the culture that he envisioned his locker room having. He didn't know what he had, and being the thorough, meticulous guy that he is, he wanted to make darn sure that the QB he already had in-house (Taylor) wasn't going to be "The guy", and he wanted to take the pulse of his team. Year 1? Set up the culture you want, feel out the team, see what you have in the guys already on your roster. Year 2? The new GM and scouting department are in place, we've seen that our current QB isn't the guy, let's go take a shot at a franchise QB.

The question of whether or not this was the right strategy won't be answered for a few more seasons. We have to see what becomes of Mahomes and Watson, and we have to see what becomes of the guy the Bills draft this year. Even if both Mahomes and Watson are successful, the Bills' move could still ALSO be considered successful, so long as the guy they pick this year pans out. We just won't know for a little while. Me, personally? I really wanted the Bills to draft Watson last year. Despite everything I just said, it seemed obvious to me that his personality/leadership was a fit for Sean McDermott. Had we taken him and sat him for a year behind Tyrod, we might be in great shape this year, and could spend our full trove of picks on good players to surround Watson with. Oh well, what's done is done. Here's hoping Beane and co get it right this year!

[xxxxxxxx]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Yes, I agree with much of this, but one has to hope the current regime can develop a qb or there is little room for optimism.

Or they luck into a guy that doesn't need much in terms of development. Rosen might not have as a high of a ceiling as other prospects, but he looks like a hard prospect to screw up. If you can keep him healthy.

Edited April 16, 2018 by MURPHD6

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

This has already been stated a few times in this thread, but I think it's an important notion to remember, and I think it's fully accurate:

Head coaches often sink or swim based on the success or failure of the quarterback they draft. I believe very strongly that McDermott knew that Whaley was out after that draft and that the Bills would be turning over basically their entire scouting department. I also believe that McDermott wanted to come in and begin turning over the roster and setting up the culture that he envisioned his locker room having. He didn't know what he had, and being the thorough, meticulous guy that he is, he wanted to make darn sure that the QB he already had in-house (Taylor) wasn't going to be "The guy", and he wanted to take the pulse of his team. Year 1? Set up the culture you want, feel out the team, see what you have in the guys already on your roster. Year 2? The new GM and scouting department are in place, we've seen that our current QB isn't the guy, let's go take a shot at a franchise QB.

The question of whether or not this was the right strategy won't be answered for a few more seasons. We have to see what becomes of Mahomes and Watson, and we have to see what becomes of the guy the Bills draft this year. Even if both Mahomes and Watson are successful, the Bills' move could still ALSO be considered successful, so long as the guy they pick this year pans out. We just won't know for a little while. Me, personally? I really wanted the Bills to draft Watson last year. Despite everything I just said, it seemed obvious to me that his personality/leadership was a fit for Sean McDermott. Had we taken him and sat him for a year behind Tyrod, we might be in great shape this year, and could spend our full trove of picks on good players to surround Watson with. Oh well, what's done is done. Here's hoping Beane and co get it right this year!

Well stated.  Btw, though I like the current avatar, I miss Spock.

[billieve420]

Still think the Bills sold low on this trade. Time for Dorsey to return the favor so we can move up to 4.

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

might be JeffisMagic’s new account 

 

I am like 80% sure it is. He's really not even trying to hide it.

[xxxxxxxx]

5 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

Still think the Bills sold low on this trade. Time for Dorsey to return the favor so we can move up to 4.

Its tough to say. Most QB's with starter potential have (or had) day 2 grades if they are projected to need a year before starting. Alot of people had Pat at the top of round 2, right around where Dalton, Capernick, and Jimmy G went, so top 10 is still a bit high for a QB who needs a year, but the perspectives are changing. Today Dalton would have likely gone top 10, and maybe Jimmy G as well.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by MURPHD6

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I am like 80% sure it is. He's really not even trying to hide it.

Jeffismagic did OBD a favor, he was so damn annoying that none of the fans wanted Mahomes by draft day either. 

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2018/02/josh_rosen_to_the_buffalo_bills_is_what_ive_heard_repeatedly_says_eric_galko.html

 

Although Whaley was on board with getting Trubisky, Galko said head coach Sean McDermott decided to kick the can on adding a quarterback high in the draft.

"But when Sean McDermott got there, (he) really won over a lot of that front office, a lot of that ownership group and they believed in McDermott. And McDermott believed in Tyrod Taylor and he said, 'Hey, let's kick the can on drafting a quarterback right now.' They didn't move up for Trubisky. They moved back and the Chiefs go up and get Pat Mahomes and they took Tre'Davious White, which they're definitely happy with, but they passed on basically two quarterback opportunities they had and that's not counting Deshaun Watson either..."

 

It was the right choice, if you ask me. But it all depends on them getting a QB this year. I hope Mahomes and whoever we get turn out to be franchise guys. That would be a huge win for both the Bills and the Chiefs and the definition of a good trade.

[BuffaloHokie13]

52 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

might be JeffisMagic’s new account 

 

41 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I am like 80% sure it is. He's really not even trying to hide it.

I don't think so. Jeff is doing his thing on BuffaloRumblings now. I don't think he'd pretend to be a long time Chiefs fan. Plus, I saw him like a post on the CFB board a little while back (but after we switched to the new platform) so I think he still lurks from time to time.

 

Just to add, I checked out a post on BR just now about a guy who had dinner with a Panthers employee who had very nice things to say about Beane & McD. In classic jeff fashion, he is claiming that the FO is terrible if the Bills don't win 8 games this season...

Edited April 16, 2018 by BuffaloHokie13

[Bakin]

1 hour ago, Yav said:

Meh - I don't see Mahomes being much more than an average QB. 

I think Mahomes will be special (he was my #1 QB last year )

but whatever. Time will tell.

 

This is a marathon this Franchise QBing thing. 

Alex Smith is case in point. Guy just had his best year (in his 12th year)

 

curious us to see how we play this. 

[Yav]

2 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

Gruden thought he was Farve like....we will see soon enough.

Gruden likes every QB and that's why he had 50 of them when he coached in Tampa. 

I just don't see the hype for Mahomes and living here I can tell you the Chefs had no other option but to move on from Smith because the fans were bitching and complaining to start Mahomes (not all but the loudest ones were). 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, if Mahomes is as good as they say, and they seem to be pretty sure about it, Bills should have taken Mahomes last year, let him learn behind Taylor, and the Bills already would be all set.  

 

If the Mike Rodak of KC says its true - it must be true.