Josh Allen will be the best QB in draft

[HOUSE]

And don't forget that Nathan Petermen, he can throw a football 60 yards through a key hole 

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, Bring Back Kelly said:

I find it funny how everyone keeps on the accuracy issues. The kid had bad receivers. If you bother to look at the highlights, his receivers dropped a lot. The placement is what should be considered. A lot of those drops were right in position to be caught. He had 1 decent receiver out of 4. Plus he was down a starting center and RB. This guy can run, throw, anticipate and most importantly see over the center. Mayfield is Short and will have problems.

 

I think you assume that everyone is just harping on his completion percentage.  And trust me, they are not.

Ball placement is being considered.

 

Watch any YouTube "vs" game of Josh Allen's, and I promise you will see multiple throws where he puts the ball high, low, short and behind.  You will see him forcing his receivers to slow down or completely stop running.  You will see him completely miss targets.  Everybody has bad throws sometimes, but Allen very much reminds me of what we saw from EJ Manuel. 

 

The most accurate NFL QBs (like Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers) have one thing in common.  Muscle memory.  They have excellent mechanics when delivering the ball, and it's identical every single time they have a chance to set their feet and deliver.  Guys like Allen and Manuel always appear to be "aiming" their throws.  It's not a natural motion they have learned.  When players have not developed this by the time they reach the NFL, there is a good chance it will never happen.

 

[Green Lightning]

The OP is cracker-dogs.

[JohnC]

58 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm sure that's also true of all the scouts and draft pundits outside of this board who have pointed out flaws in his game too. 

They are all shrimps who know nothing.  Whatcha gonna do. 

 

Now I'm so confused.  I remember from the Fitzy days and then EJ that QB accuracy just can't be improved.  Who to believe, who to believe now?

To be honest I'm conflicted about him. There are people who are knowledgeable evaluators who say don't be tempted by his tools and avoid him at all costs. Then there are knowledgeable evaluators who are impressed with his tools and believe whatever mechanical issues he has associated with his accuracy can be corrected. 

 

Most of the ESPN type evaluators have him in the top four group. Some even have him ranked in the top two. Bandit is high on him and Gunner and Bloke are not. On this issue I'm siding with the combative Bandito. Although I am queasy about it. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

To be honest I'm conflicted about him. There are people who are knowledgeable evaluators who say don't be tempted by his tools and avoid him at all costs. Then there are knowledgeable evaluators who are impressed with his tools and believe whatever mechanical issues he has associated with his accuracy can be corrected. 

 

Most of the ESPN type evaluators have him in the top four group. Some even have him ranked in the top two. Bandit is high on him and Gunner and Bloke are not. On this issue I'm siding with the combative Bandito. Although I am queasy about it. 

Is it really necessary to trade up for Allen? I mean is his ceiling so much higher than the other guys that its a necessary risk. I say a big NO.

If Darnold,Rosen and Mayfield are gone and we haven't gotten one then i'd consider him. 

[JohnC]

Just now, horned dogs said:

Is it really necessary to trade up for Allen? I mean is his ceiling so much higher than the other guys that its a necessary risk. I say a big NO.

If Darnold,Rosen and Mayfield are gone and we haven't gotten one then i'd consider him. 

I prefer the trio of qbs that you mentioned, and would trade up for any one of them. With Allen I would be agreeable to trading up but not make as much of an investment to get him. For the sake of argument let's assume the Bills were interested in Mayfield and Allen. Would I make a move up to preclude someone else ahead of us selecting him or another team jumping up to get him? If the McBeane duo had a conviction on either one of them then yes I would make a measured move. 

[Nihilarian]

I like Allen over Rosen and Darnold but would be happy with Mayfield too.

 

Allen, Darnold, Mayfield were winners in college and Darnold had they very best supporting cast you can have. So while he won a lot of games you have to wonder what he would be like on bad teams like Rosen, Allen were on last year.

 

Allen will just need some time to further develop so he needs to go to a team that already has a starting QB so he can sit and learn. JMO

[Bring Back Kelly]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

I think you assume that everyone is just harping on his completion percentage.  And trust me, they are not.

Ball placement is being considered.

 

Watch any YouTube "vs" game of Josh Allen's, and I promise you will see multiple throws where he puts the ball high, low, short and behind.  You will see him forcing his receivers to slow down or completely stop running.  You will see him completely miss targets.  Everybody has bad throws sometimes, but Allen very much reminds me of what we saw from EJ Manuel. 

 

The most accurate NFL QBs (like Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers) have one thing in common.  Muscle memory.  They have excellent mechanics when delivering the ball, and it's identical every single time they have a chance to set their feet and deliver.  Guys like Allen and Manuel always appear to be "aiming" their throws.  It's not a natural motion they have learned.  When players have not developed this by the time they reach the NFL, there is a good chance it will never happen.

 

Great points. I look at all the QBs. I like Rosen the most. But when you compare these guys, they are all different from one another. Outside of the interceptions, Darnold looks like the safe pick, Rosen is probably the most ready to start. Mayfield has the grit and mindset to be a good QB. Heart. He has that. But pure potential and natural abilities. Allan has that. Allan could play in this weather. And his footwork has really improved. Palmer is really helping this kid. He looked great at Senior Bowl and Combine. Footwork has so much to do with it. Mayfield a footwork is really good. But Allan is the fastest outside of Jackson. As tall as Rothlisberger, and has a cannon. Plus he looks coachable. Palmer has shown this. Stanford was not accurate and he is pretty dam good. I actually think Allan can learn from Both Peterman and McCarron. If you only have to give up a first and a third for him, I say you make that trade in a heartbeat.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Bring Back Kelly

[Zerovoltz]

4 hours ago, Bring Back Kelly said:

I find it funny how everyone keeps on the accuracy issues. The kid had bad receivers. If you bother to look at the highlights, his receivers dropped a lot. The placement is what should be considered. A lot of those drops were right in position to be caught. He had 1 decent receiver out of 4. Plus he was down a starting center and RB. This guy can run, throw, anticipate and most importantly see over the center. Mayfield is Short and will have problems.

 

Umm...not so much.

 

Target drop passes percentages:

Lamar Jackson - 8.5%
Baker Mayfield - 8.0%
Josh Rosen - 7.5%
Mason Rudolph - 6.6%
Josh Allen - 4.8%
Sam Darnold - 4.3

 

 

[JoPar_v2]

4 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

Umm...not so much.

 

Target drop passes percentages:

Lamar Jackson - 8.5%
Baker Mayfield - 8.0%
Josh Rosen - 7.5%
Mason Rudolph - 6.6%
Josh Allen - 4.8%
Sam Darnold - 4.3

 

 

Hilarious. Thank you for finding the stats. 

[Heavy Kevi]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBud420 said:

Mark it down. All you guys bashing him on here either don't know football or have some sort of Napoleon complex.

 

Haven't you been "done" with the Bills like a half dozen times by now?

[Bring Back Kelly]

46 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Hilarious. Thank you for finding the stats. 

Ohh and I'm sure that's the order that they will be picked in.

 

[Zerovoltz]

10 minutes ago, Bring Back Kelly said:

Ohh and I'm sure that's the order that they will be picked in.

 

 

We aren't talking about the order they will be picked in.  you claimed he his recievers dropped the ball alot.  they didn't.  No one said anything about draft order.  Just own it and move on.

[JoPar_v2]

15 minutes ago, Bring Back Kelly said:

Ohh and I'm sure that's the order that they will be picked in.

 

Hey genius he was just providing a little evidence in the face of your unsubstantiated claim. Allen’s receivers did not drop an inordinate amount of balls. Course you “watched a few games” so you thought you knew better. 

 

Has nothing to do with where they’ll be picked.

Edited April 15, 2018 by JoPar_v2

[Lenigmusx]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

I think you assume that everyone is just harping on his completion percentage.  And trust me, they are not.

Ball placement is being considered.

 

Watch any YouTube "vs" game of Josh Allen's, and I promise you will see multiple throws where he puts the ball high, low, short and behind.  You will see him forcing his receivers to slow down or completely stop running.  You will see him completely miss targets.  Everybody has bad throws sometimes, but Allen very much reminds me of what we saw from EJ Manuel. 

 

The most accurate NFL QBs (like Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers) have one thing in common.  Muscle memory.  They have excellent mechanics when delivering the ball, and it's identical every single time they have a chance to set their feet and deliver.  Guys like Allen and Manuel always appear to be "aiming" their throws.  It's not a natural motion they have learned.  When players have not developed this by the time they reach the NFL, there is a good chance it will never happen.

 

So the key to muscle memory is actually slow methodical technical reps. If practice is done in this manor a chemical is released from the brain that will retrain and program the muscle tissue. In short the right training can correct muscle memory issues. As a musician many of the same concepts apply as incorrect practice habits and technique errors are corrected at the collegiate level on almost every instrument and this type of muscle memory retraining is part of the "craft". Some may argue that the concept and context are different but in reality human physiology would dictate that muscle memory is indeed just that regardless of context. Therefore training in the aforementioned manor should and most likely would yield the desired results. In conclusion slow methodical training could indeed correct Josh Allen's technical deficiencies. Results would yield the drafts most talented QB prospect based on raw athletic ability and capability. This would indicate that sheer technical ability and ceiling alone make Allen the best prospect. This doesn't even address intellect and with a wonderlic score of 37 obviously he is far beyond average In this area as well. Put it all together and you have to see that Allen is the future star QB in this draft. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Lenigmusx

[Zerovoltz]

I've seen enough of Allen that I would avoid him until day 3.  I'm not a coach or a scout.  I am just some nobody like everyone else here.  I like speculating, watching film, making a judgment like everyone else here.  I can completely understand the fascination with the guy.  He absolutely has the physical traits you want a QB to have.  Big, tall, rocket arm...and high wonderlic score to boot.  Seems to have interview quite well, and looked great at the combine and senior bowl.  There is a ALOT to like there.  To me....you can't overlook the flaws...wich are substantial.  He makes poor choices at the line...he stares down targets.  he isn't an accurate thrower.  That alone, I could almost accept and deal with it...but the fact he did not IMPROVE over time is the single biggest red flag in my mind.  This sort of flaw is major.  

 

If the Bills end up with Josh Allen it will be precisely because they couldn't get into the top 3 AND they will be panicking because frankly, you aren't going into this season with McCarron, no no.1 drafted QB, and the bleak prospects of 2019 at QB.  The front office, after passing like they did last year,  CAN NOT come away from day 1 without a QB.  They CANT.  If you get to pick 7 or so, and you know you have the Patriots, Cardinals, Chargers, behind you making calls, and for who, Allen, Rudolph, ? Jackson?...the pucker factor in the Bills war room will be defcon 5 if 1-2-3 is all QB and Allen isn't one of them....

[Boatdrinks]

Well, I guess there's something to be said for putting it all out there and owning your take. As for Allen, I see him as the biggest risk. Out of the 5 first round possibles , he's the one I'd least like to see wearing a Bills cap on April 26. 

[transplantbillsfan]

Thank you.

 

You've solidified my desire to steer very clear of him.

 

Whatever BuffaloBud420 says to do, do the opposite

 

Do you get most of these fantastic ideas at 4:20 in the afternoon with a little help from your girl Mary Jane?

[John from Riverside]

6 hours ago, Captain Murica said:

I want to throw something at you.

Well hopefully you have better accuracy then Allen

[HOUSE]

I think Josh Allen is perfect for Cleveland

[george c]

Everyone looks at film, film, film.. obviously it is the single most important evaluator, but..

How about looking into the head and chest?

Personally, if Darnold isn’t there, Allen is the guy. 

 

Rosen has bust written all over him. Not because of talent, but what’s in his chest, and what’s in daddy’s wallet. A few hits, some locker room rejection, and I can see Rosen not surviving the mental game because if really doesn’t need a paycheck, the motivation runs out. A few hits, and mom starts telling him he doesn’t need this...

 

Mayfield has bust potential, and my guess is 75%-25% he busts. Those who need to read negative headlines for motiviation will run out of gas at some point. 

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by George C

[Bring Back Kelly]

8 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Hey genius he was just providing a little evidence in the face of your unsubstantiated claim. Allen’s receivers did not drop an inordinate amount of balls. Course you “watched a few games” so you thought you knew better. 

 

Has nothing to do with where they’ll be picked.

I'll own up to stats. Ok sure.. Stats do not tell the whole story though. You and I both know it. My point in the order is if those stats are  everything than would you pick in the order that the stats layed out? Of course you would not. And would you pick Allan's receivers over the other QBs receivers. Probably not. If you don't like Allen because you say his completion % is bad, than go off the stats. That's your reasoning. To me. I see the guy with the most upside. He has a good arm. And is fast and can hit the Windows. If I were to just base a pick on stats, than I'm only basing the pick off of part of the story. He is a good pick.

[bufrock j]

you got half of it right [the josh part].  josh allen is gonna suck .and anybody that reads should know.  way, way to many red flags.he was bad against bad teams in a bad conference. we are not getting below the fifth pick and i hope he is not there  would rather have jackson, rosen or mayfield 

[JoPar_v2]

5 minutes ago, Bring Back Kelly said:

I'll own up to stats. Ok sure.. Stats do not tell the whole story though. You and I both know it. My point in the order is if those stats are  everything than would you pick in the order that the stats layed out? Of course you would not. And would you pick Allan's receivers over the other QBs receivers. Probably not. If you don't like Allen because you say his completion % is bad, than go off the stats. That's your reasoning. To me. I see the guy with the most upside. He has a good arm. And is fast and can hit the Windows. If I were to just base a pick on stats, than I'm only basing the pick off of part of the story. He is a good pick.

No stats do not tell the “whole story,” but the particular stat shown was in response to your very specific excuse for Allen: that his receivers dropped a lot of passes. Simply not true, relative to the other QB prospects’ drop rates. 

 

Now you’re backing off of that claim, which is fine. He may very well end up being a good pick for someone, but let’s not bend the truth in an attempt to make excuses for the guy. The shortcomings are there. BTW, his completion % stayed steady for ‘16 and ‘17, and he had two different receiving corps those years. Maybe the problem is him.

[bufrock j]

1 minute ago, Derby Dan said:

Really Jackson is like Taylor athletic and no accuracy. You can not teach size and arm strength 

jackson is nothing like taylor [ please do some research before saying that ] except  black and fast .  

[JoPar_v2]

4 minutes ago, Derby Dan said:

Really Jackson is like Taylor athletic and no accuracy. You can not teach size and arm strength 

Lamer Jackson is a far more accomplished and better prospect than Tyrod ever was. But they’re both black and fast so go ahead make that asinine comparison.

[JoPar_v2]

Just now, Derby Dan said:

Please.  Watch the fil it does lie

The “fil” does lie? I thought it was the other way around. 

 

Please go away.

[bufrock j]

silly goose

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, Derby Dan said:

Allen is projected as the next Jim Kelly by many people

 

Oh yeah? Who’s saying that?

[jtothebrown]

I dont know if Allen will be the best qb taken this year, but im not too comfortable drafting Southern Cali qbs who dont typically paly or are from our type of climate.

 

Allen at least does play in similar elements and that can make or break a qbs abilities. I dont want a kid to. Come in to Buffalo and play for 3 yrs to basically leave in FA.With these cali qbs , i can titally see that happening.

 

Just because they are good in southern cali, dosent mean they will be good here or wanna stay here. Lets just draft the best guy for our long term future and develope the hell out of him!

[Bangarang]

24 minutes ago, Derby Dan said:

Steve Tasker

 

So....1 person said it? That’s not many people Don.

[Gigs]

With a little hard work and dedication he could be the next Ryan Mallet. 

22 minutes ago, jtothebrown said:

I dont know if Allen will be the best qb taken this year, but im not too comfortable drafting Southern Cali qbs who dont typically paly or are from our type of climate.

 

Allen at least does play in similar elements and that can make or break a qbs abilities. I dont want a kid to. Come in to Buffalo and play for 3 yrs to basically leave in FA.With these cali qbs , i can titally see that happening.

 

Just because they are good in southern cali, dosent mean they will be good here or wanna stay here. Lets just draft the best guy for our long term future and develope the hell out of him!

Tom Brady is from San Francisco. We need to get used to the fact that all the football kids are being born in warmer climates where all the jobs and money went. Rust Belt won’t be producing talent like Kelly, Marino or Montana any time soon. If Brady can do it, any good QB should be able to. 

 

Also, Jimbo played in Miami and Houston...not exactly Buffalo by any stretch of the imagination. Weather is such a non factor for good players. It’s a variable, but not a determination. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Gigs

[Bring Back Kelly]

1 hour ago, JoPar_v2 said:

No stats do not tell the “whole story,” but the particular stat shown was in response to your very specific excuse for Allen: that his receivers dropped a lot of passes. Simply not true, relative to the other QB prospects’ drop rates. 

 

Now you’re backing off of that claim, which is fine. He may very well end up being a good pick for someone, but let’s not bend the truth in an attempt to make excuses for the guy. The shortcomings are there. BTW, his completion % stayed steady for ‘16 and ‘17, and he had two different receiving corps those years. Maybe the problem is him.

Well, from the games and highlights, I saw, I seen his receivers drop the passes. So sorry I did not watch every game and go in to the history log to get you every stat. My option, take it or leave it.

[MJS]

Or ... he will be a complete bust. Don't pretend to know what is going to happen with him or any other player. Nobody knows for sure.

[BillsFan17]

Allen couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

 

Previous QB Coffman I'm 2015 had 63% completion rate, with essentially the same roster as Allen.

 

Keep making excuses, no one gives a ... the kid is not a first rounder let a lone a top ten pick.

[jtothebrown]

43 minutes ago, Gigs said:

With a little hard work and dedication he could be the next Ryan Mallet. 

Tom Brady is from San Francisco. We need to get used to the fact that all the football kids are being born in warmer climates where all the jobs and money went. Rust Belt won’t be producing talent like Kelly, Marino or Montana any time soon. If Brady can do it, any good QB should be able to. 

 

Also, Jimbo played in Miami and Houston...not exactly Buffalo by any stretch of the imagination. Weather is such a non factor for good players. It’s a variable, but not a determination. 

I knew that was coming! Both those guys are Northern Cali, not to say that theres a significant difference in the weather, but its not all sunshine and 70s in norther cali.

 

Brady played his college ball in Mich, which is similar to Buff.

 

 

Kelly is from P.A, similar as well.

[McBean]

I'll say this...

 

Give me Allen over Jackson. Just watch Lamar against Clemson this year. Throwing balls all over the place with no accuracy. I like Allen more because of his size and tools. I still think he will suck but give me him over the RB Jackson.

 

For me, it's Darnold/Mayfield or bust.

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, Derby Dan said:

I said it too and many people on this board agrees with my opinion so your statement of 1 is incorrect 

 

Many people agree with you just like there were many (1 person) who called Allen the next JK. ?

[OldTimer1960]

17 hours ago, Midwest1981 said:

Allen had a significantly superior supporting cast in 2016 (including a couple of 2017 draft picks in Brian Hill and Chase Roullier) and his completion percentage was actually lower that year at 56.0% (compared to 56.3% this past fall). Allen also was 58th out of 59 qualifying QB’s in completion percentage at the JUCO level in 2014 and completed just 49.0% at Reeding.

 

His accuracy issues aren’t hopeless but they’re not manufactured, either, and need vast improvement.

He also threw for >75% more yards as a Junior when he had a better supporting cast.  He isn’t my favorite, but I can understand why a team might take him high.

[frostbitmic]

17 hours ago, Logic said:

35 years ago. I wonder if football has changed at all since then?

It has ... Quarterbacks are protected more than ever and defensive backs are flagged more than ever, it's all about the offenses today.

 

Allen never had a QB coach in college until this past season. They have said that his foot work is a mess and that affects his accuracy. Give him an NFL QB coach and it's possible they fix his issues.

 

Drafting Allen may get you the next Roethlisberger or it may give you the next Dan McGuire, only time will tell ... TBD