Making the case for Lamar Jackson

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

But he's the only one who scored ridiculously low on the Wonderlic and has his mommy as his agent.  This dude has red flags all over the place, John.

 

Not that it will stop anyone here, but I thought it had been shown by someone with access that at least half the leaked Wonderlic scores were incorrect.  

Just to keep in mind that the leaked scores should not be taken as Gospel.  I, personally, would put a lot more weight on what I got out of talking to the guy and doing whiteboard stuff with him than how he did on a strange test brewed up by crossing an SAT with an intelligence test and hiding the calculator.

 

I don’t know what to make of the “mom is my manager, I don’t have an agent” thing.  Reportedly Felicia Jones has some sh**.  Jackson said she used to put on pads and practice with him.   Reportedly she used to call Jackson and his WR roommate after every game and give them play by play feedback.  Jackson got sent to receive punts in a Louisville practice - once.  Practically before practice ended, she had Petrino on the phone reminding him of his recruiting promises and that never happened again.  Calling her “his mommy” seems a bit like calling Hurricane Maria a “wee little storm”.  She’s a freakin’ force of nature, Man.  It may not be the best choice, but she’s not your ordinary mommy.  

 

Two stories about Jackson’s mom:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/03/lamar-jackson-mother-felicia-jones-draft-agent-manager-louisville
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17949555/louisville-cardinals-quarterback-lamar-jackson-first-trainer-was-mother

 

So is it the best thing for Jackson, can’t say, point is - this isn’t what you might ordinary think when you hear “his mommy”.  This is an astute, driven woman who outmaneuvered Petrino and the Louisville coaches during recruiting and who seems to have built a plan with her son.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, joesixpack said:

Because, Lord Twatwaffle, it's germane. Intelligence in a QB is important in the NFL. Not so much when you're playing northwestern central kentucky state.

 

 

Can you tell me which of these questions are the strongest indicators of NFL success for a QB and how they apply to an NFL football field?

 

 

Casey needed to move 23 huge boxes from his truck to the loading dock. His forklift could only hold three boxes at once. How many times did Casey have to visit the loading dock?

 

Which word is different from the others?  (Apple, Orange, Watermelon, Celery, Tomato)

 

In four years, Phil will be half Tim’s age. Two years ago, Tim was five times Phil’s age. How old is Phil now?

 

To thwart is to:  (threaten, oppose, weaken, make fun of)

 

What word, when added to the beginning of MILL and the end of CHAIN, creates two other words?

 

Choose the sentence that most closely resembles the meaning of the proverb, “The pen is mightier than the sword.”

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

30 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

https://footballiqscore.com/

Do us all a favor. 

 

1) Take the test right now with no practice.  I'm betting that's what Jackson did since he's probably the only high profile coming out in decades to not have an Agent who would force him to practice and prepare for the test itself.  The truth of the matter is that you can drastically improve your score on standardized tests with a  few simple test taking strategies.  It's often not indicative of intelligence or processing speed, but prior practice and proper test taking strategies.

 

and

 

2) Tell us which questions apply to being a QB on an NFL field in terms of executing an offensive playbook and reading defenses.

 

 

Maybe he just didn't think the test was worth a damn so he broke with convention and didn't prepare for the exam.

 

From the sounds of it, it's possible the kid (and his mother) is so sick and tired of being cajoled time and time again into trying out other positions like punt returner or WR when all he's wanted to be is a QB and he's had historic success at the position after the last couple of years that's he's just at a "take it or leave it," point.

 

He's going to be playing QB for a football team, he's not going to be a rocket scientist.  What's the point of a standardized test?

 

If you argue it's processing speed or ability to execute an NFL offense, he could just point to his college film over the last 2 years in an NFL offense against high-level competition.

 

https://footballiqscore.com/result/27515.

 

Boom.

 

In other words, I'm a little more than 3x smarter than Lamar Jackson. Take that for what it's worth.
 

 

6 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Can you tell me which of these questions are the strongest indicators of NFL success for a QB and how they apply to an NFL football field?

 

 

Casey needed to move 23 huge boxes from his truck to the loading dock. His forklift could only hold three boxes at once. How many times did Casey have to visit the loading dock?

 

Which word is different from the others?  (Apple, Orange, Watermelon, Celery, Tomato)

 

In four years, Phil will be half Tim’s age. Two years ago, Tim was five times Phil’s age. How old is Phil now?

 

To thwart is to:  (threaten, oppose, weaken, make fun of)

 

What word, when added to the beginning of MILL and the end of CHAIN, creates two other words?

 

Choose the sentence that most closely resembles the meaning of the proverb, “The pen is mightier than the sword.”

 

It was a challenge to process the information and come up with an answer, but I answered 49/50 questions before time ran out, and got 40/49 right.

 

With no preparation.

 

The dude is a dunce, and is a hard pass for me.

 

Also, transplant, an NFL playbook is HEAVY on verbal recall and processing.

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by joesixpack

[suorangefan4]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

.....he is uber talented both in arm and mobility

 

 

What? Lamar Jackson has the weakest arm of any QB in the draft. 49 MPH is terrible.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

https://footballiqscore.com/result/27515.

 

Boom.

 

In other words, I'm a little more than 3x smarter than Lamar Jackson. Take that for what it's worth.

 

 

If you honestly think that test is indicative of your intelligence, you're pretty naïve.

 

I scored a 22 when I discovered that test and decided to take it.

 

I really have no shame in saying that was my score.  And I wouldn't have any shame in saying I scored a 13 if I did.  I see standardized tests up close and personal all the time and understand the incredibly flawed nature of them in terms of what they're designed to measure versus what they actually measure.

 

I've seen your posts.  You're not almost twice as smart as me.

 

 

I won't make any excuses for that score, whatsoever, but I know that a 22 on the Wonderlic is not indicative of my actual intelligence because I know that if I sat here and took that test again in a quiet room, focused and used some test taking strategies, I could drastically improve my score.  But I'll let that 22 stand because I don't have anything to prove to myself.  If anything, taking that test just further proves to me the idiocy of standardized tests, in general.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

If you honestly think that test is indicative of your intelligence, you're pretty naïve.

 

I scored a 22 when I discovered that test and decided to take it.

 

I really have no shame in saying that was my score.  And I wouldn't have any shame in saying I scored a 13 if I did.  I see standardized tests up close and personal all the time and understand the incredibly flawed nature of them in terms of what they're designed to measure versus what they actually measure.

 

I've seen your posts.  You're not almost twice as smart as me.

 

 

I won't make any excuses for that score, whatsoever, but I know that a 22 on the Wonderlic is not indicative of my actual intelligence because I know that if I sat here and took that test again in a quiet room, focused and used some test taking strategies, I could drastically improve my score.  But I'll let that 22 stand because I don't have anything to prove to myself.  If anything, taking that test just further proves to me the idiocy of standardized tests, in general.

 

In other words, your point was invalidated in your hubris.

 

My point, however, still stands.

 

The guy is a dim bulb for not doing everything he can to maximize his opportunity, and that alone is a disqualifier for any serious team.

 

And if he's that stupid to pass on an opportunity by keeping his mother on as his agent, then he's just too stupid to be a starting NFL QB on any team I'd care to follow.

 

13 man. 13.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by joesixpack

[transplantbillsfan]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

In other words, your point was invalidated in your hubris.

 

My point, however, still stands.

 

The guy is a dim bulb for not doing everything he can to maximize his opportunity, and that alone is a disqualifier for any serious team.

 

And if he's that stupid to pass on an opportunity by keeping his mother on as his agent, then he's just too stupid to be a starting NFL QB on any team I'd care to follow.

 

13 man. 13.

 

I'm not invalidating my score.

 

I just told you it stands.

 

You're right in a sense about hubris in the sense that I just decided to take the test on a whim for fun during recess in my classroom with students chatting and doing work on the side.

 

And I was a bit dismissive of it in terms of attitude.

 

Do you know Lamar Jackson's approach to the test?

 

Do you know if he took it seriously?

 

 

Based off his own history, if anything, it's possible schools did what they often do for star athletes which is push them through the system at a lower bar than regular students purely because of how talented they are and what they bring to their school.  So, it's possible that Jackson doesn't have the same amount of knowledge you or I have, but knowledge does not equal intelligence and knowledge doesn't really relate to one's ability to process new information.

 

As far as processing football information of an offense and on the field... well, there's his game tape and there's also how damn hard he worked as he came into Louisville without having ever had to use an offensive playbook in High School:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2662128-the-education-of-lamar-jackson-how-louisville-qb-went-from-project-to-superstar

The Education of Lamar Jackson: How Louisville QB Went from Project to Superstar

 

He picked Louisville, knowing coach Bobby Petrino's history of developing QBs. Then Petrino delivered the playbook.

 

"It looked like foreign letters," Jackson remembers. "I came from a high school where I didn't have a playbook or anything like that. Coach would draw it up and get the headset on, and we'd go after it."

 

and

 

 

And so when Jackson arrived on campus, he was not even named among the three guys who might be the starting quarterback. The playbook was still Greek to him, as were progressions, tight ends in motion and blitzes. Darn blitzes.

 

That was a year ago. A few days ago, he threw for six touchdowns and ran for two more.

 

and

 

"At first, I was like, 'Why are they trying to make me do this?'" Jackson says. "'I'm trying to sleep.' It was crazy. I'd watch my bad plays—my good plays, too."

 

The truth is, at first he wasn't even sure exactly what he was watching. Then it started making sense, and he realized he enjoyed it. "When I started getting more into it, I realized, 'This is what I'm here for.'"

 

and

 

Petrino says some of the things usually considered "natural intangibles" need to be worked on, too. For example, last year, Jackson was petrified to talk with the media. So he took a media class and also enlisted the help of a local reporter.

[Bfanlc]

Posted this in the college post

 

https://cfbcomparisons.com/a-j-mccarron-vs-lamar-jackson-college-comparison/

 

Thoughts?

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

https://footballiqscore.com/

Do us all a favor. 

 

1) Take the test right now with no practice.  I'm betting that's what Jackson did since he's probably the only high profile coming out in decades to not have an Agent who would force him to practice and prepare for the test itself.  The truth of the matter is that you can drastically improve your score on standardized tests with a  few simple test taking strategies.  It's often not indicative of intelligence or processing speed, but prior practice and proper test taking strategies.

 

and

 

2) Tell us which questions apply to being a QB on an NFL field in terms of executing an offensive playbook and reading defenses.

 

 

Maybe he just didn't think the test was worth a damn so he broke with convention and didn't prepare for the exam.

 

From the sounds of it, it's possible the kid (and his mother) is so sick and tired of being cajoled time and time again into trying out other positions like punt returner or WR when all he's wanted to be is a QB and he's had historic success at the position after the last couple of years that's he's just at a "take it or leave it," point.

 

He's going to be playing QB for a football team, he's not going to be a rocket scientist.  What's the point of a standardized test?

 

If you argue it's processing speed or ability to execute an NFL offense, he could just point to his college film over the last 2 years in an NFL offense against high-level competition.

 

Didn't he lose every game against high level competition? Not sure if he did. Not sure why people are defending the guy to this extent. If you like him fine. If you don't cool. Not sure he is the next franchise q.b. Nothing has shown me that he has that potential.

[racketmaster]

1 hour ago, Bfanlc said:

Posted this in the college post

 

https://cfbcomparisons.com/a-j-mccarron-vs-lamar-jackson-college-comparison/

 

Thoughts?

 

Didn't he lose every game against high level competition? Not sure if he did. Not sure why people are defending the guy to this extent. If you like him fine. If you don't cool. Not sure he is the next franchise q.b. Nothing has shown me that he has that potential.

Jackson threads are like Allen threads in that there is little room for middle ground with extreme positions on either side taking up most of the space. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by racketmaster

[Mat68]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

https://footballiqscore.com/

Do us all a favor. 

 

1) Take the test right now with no practice.  I'm betting that's what Jackson did since he's probably the only high profile coming out in decades to not have an Agent who would force him to practice and prepare for the test itself.  The truth of the matter is that you can drastically improve your score on standardized tests with a  few simple test taking strategies.  It's often not indicative of intelligence or processing speed, but prior practice and proper test taking strategies.

 

and

 

2) Tell us which questions apply to being a QB on an NFL field in terms of executing an offensive playbook and reading defenses.

 

 

Maybe he just didn't think the test was worth a damn so he broke with convention and didn't prepare for the exam.

 

From the sounds of it, it's possible the kid (and his mother) is so sick and tired of being cajoled time and time again into trying out other positions like punt returner or WR when all he's wanted to be is a QB and he's had historic success at the position after the last couple of years that's he's just at a "take it or leave it," point.

 

He's going to be playing QB for a football team, he's not going to be a rocket scientist.  What's the point of a standardized test?

 

If you argue it's processing speed or ability to execute an NFL offense, he could just point to his college film over the last 2 years in an NFL offense against high-level competition.

As a prospect he has the most ability. As a passer his numbers are just as prolific as Rosen.  Rosen is considered the best natural passer in the draft.  He had a better career running the football than Saquan Barkley, more yards, TDs, higher ypc.  Barkley is the consensus #1 player.  The agent part is a concern.  Though with the rookie wage scale I understand the thinking.  Day 1 he will be electric.  Will he put the time and personal investment into becoming great?  Idk  him and keeping 22 makes alot of sense to me.

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

https://footballiqscore.com/

Do us all a favor. 

 

1) Take the test right now with no practice.  I'm betting that's what Jackson did since he's probably the only high profile coming out in decades to not have an Agent who would force him to practice and prepare for the test itself.  The truth of the matter is that you can drastically improve your score on standardized tests with a  few simple test taking strategies.  It's often not indicative of intelligence or processing speed, but prior practice and proper test taking strategies.

 

and

 

2) Tell us which questions apply to being a QB on an NFL field in terms of executing an offensive playbook and reading defenses.

 

 

Maybe he just didn't think the test was worth a damn so he broke with convention and didn't prepare for the exam.

 

From the sounds of it, it's possible the kid (and his mother) is so sick and tired of being cajoled time and time again into trying out other positions like punt returner or WR when all he's wanted to be is a QB and he's had historic success at the position after the last couple of years that's he's just at a "take it or leave it," point.

 

He's going to be playing QB for a football team, he's not going to be a rocket scientist.  What's the point of a standardized test?

 

If you argue it's processing speed or ability to execute an NFL offense, he could just point to his college film over the last 2 years in an NFL offense against high-level competition.

 

I don't have time to do this.  However, if I was trying to become a highly coveted QB prospect in an upcoming draft, you can bet your dense ass I'd prepare for it.  You can also bet I'd hire a real agent.  You can also bet I'd throw at the combine.  You can also bet the last thing I'd do if, when I spoke, I made Mike Tyson sound like Alex Trebec, I wouldn't tell the world how great I am without proving ****, other than playing against a bunch of Al Bundys for a few years.

 

This kid is a rock.  He's Lenny dumb.  He'll be detailing cars in 4 years because he's not smart enough to sell them.

[billspro]

2 hours ago, racketmaster said:

Jackson threads are like Allen threads in that there is little room for middle ground with extreme positions on either side taking up most of the space. 

 

That is the only thing everyone can agree on for this topic. 

 

If I was 15 years younger and still played Madden Jackson would be my favorite QB prospect. My QB evaluations have come a long way since then though. I can see why some people are drooling over his QB traits. For me I don’t believe he throws with enough anticipation to be  an elite QB. When you throw in the inconsistent intermediate accuracy the bust potential goes way up.

[Ol Dirty B]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

I don't have time to do this.  However, if I was trying to become a highly coveted QB prospect in an upcoming draft, you can bet your dense ass I'd prepare for it.  You can also bet I'd hire a real agent.  You can also bet I'd throw at the combine.  You can also bet the last thing I'd do if, when I spoke, I made Mike Tyson sound like Alex Trebec, I wouldn't tell the world how great I am without proving ****, other than playing against a bunch of Al Bundys for a few years.

 

This kid is a rock.  He's Lenny dumb.  He'll be detailing cars in 4 years because he's not smart enough to sell them.

 

He threw at the combine. Most people thought he came off good in the combine interview. You have a predisposed bias against him for whatever reason. I'm not saying he's going to be great, but you're not being fair to him at all and just making things up. It's bizarre behavior.

[John from Riverside]

28 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

He threw at the combine. Most people thought he came off good in the combine interview. You have a predisposed bias against him for whatever reason. I'm not saying he's going to be great, but you're not being fair to him at all and just making things up. It's bizarre behavior.

Its not that hard to figure out why

 

The elephant in the room.....if Tyrod Taylor was the passer Lamar is he would still be our starting qb

[Dr.Sack]

I haven’t heard much about the draft but my impression is you can bring in Jackson & groom him for 1 season. About the only NFL ready QB is Rosen & even Darnold will need time to develop. 

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I don't have time to do this.  However, if I was trying to become a highly coveted QB prospect in an upcoming draft, you can bet your dense ass I'd prepare for it.  You can also bet I'd hire a real agent.  You can also bet I'd throw at the combine.  You can also bet the last thing I'd do if, when I spoke, I made Mike Tyson sound like Alex Trebec, I wouldn't tell the world how great I am without proving ****, other than playing against a bunch of Al Bundys for a few years.

 

This kid is a rock.  He's Lenny dumb.  He'll be detailing cars in 4 years because he's not smart enough to sell them.

 

You don't have 12 friggin minutes to spare???

 

Yah right, this thread begs to differ.

 

Whatever dude, I hope we get Mayfield or Darnold. It's already clear the division that's going to continue on this board if we draft Jackson. Wherever he does end up, I think you'll be very surprised how successful he is as an NFL QB.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[plenzmd1]

I have not been in the is thread, but Sal had a guy on Saturday with some scouting service, and Sigmund Bloom was on Shoop yesterday. Both said Jackson is their top rated QB

[Solomon Grundy]

14 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I have not been in the is thread, but Sal had a guy on Saturday with some scouting service, and Sigmund Bloom was on Shoop yesterday. Both said Jackson is their top rated QB

Ben Solak

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, the skycap said:

Ben Solak

 

It was Emory Hunt.

https://twitter.com/FBallGameplan

[CommonCents]

Emory Hunt's twitter JT Barrett would be a good fit because he is similar to Dalton. 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

Notice the board behind Casserly. He musta had Jackson rated in his top 2/3.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[TheFunPolice]

I predict that he becomes a likeable bust. Not a lazy frat boy like Leinhart who decided to spend his prep time in the hot tub with the coeds, but a guy who works hard, has a few nice moments, but never really makes it.

 

I hope I'm wrong, though, because if he is good he will be fun to watch.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Are you worried that he threw 49 mph at the combine? 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Are you worried that he threw 49 mph at the combine? 

 

No because the game film shows he has plenty of arm for the NFL game.  

[dave mcbride]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

No because the game film shows he has plenty of arm for the NFL game.  

That was my thought too, but if you look at the success rate of guys throwing 50 or under, it's pretty low. Deshaun Watson and Tyrod to an extent are outliers. 

[SouthNYfan]

17 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

https://footballiqscore.com/

Do us all a favor. 

 

1) Take the test right now with no practice.  I'm betting that's what Jackson did since he's probably the only high profile coming out in decades to not have an Agent who would force him to practice and prepare for the test itself.  The truth of the matter is that you can drastically improve your score on standardized tests with a  few simple test taking strategies.  It's often not indicative of intelligence or processing speed, but prior practice and proper test taking strategies.

 

and

 

2) Tell us which questions apply to being a QB on an NFL field in terms of executing an offensive playbook and reading defenses.

 

 

Maybe he just didn't think the test was worth a damn so he broke with convention and didn't prepare for the exam.

 

From the sounds of it, it's possible the kid (and his mother) is so sick and tired of being cajoled time and time again into trying out other positions like punt returner or WR when all he's wanted to be is a QB and he's had historic success at the position after the last couple of years that's he's just at a "take it or leave it," point.

 

He's going to be playing QB for a football team, he's not going to be a rocket scientist.  What's the point of a standardized test?

 

If you argue it's processing speed or ability to execute an NFL offense, he could just point to his college film over the last 2 years in an NFL offense against high-level competition.

 

I got a 32 with no practice.

I also don't know what the F*ck the test has to do with being a QB.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I got a 32 with no practice.

I also don't know what the F*ck the test has to do with being a QB.

 

The biggest attribute a QB needs is the ability to think and solve problems quickly.

 

That's why it's germane.

 

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Are you worried that he threw 49 mph at the combine? 

 

For what it's worth, Benjamin Allbright cited velocity numbers from the Combine that said Lamar hit 54 MPH. Still not quite the 55 that is considered the ideal, but damn close.

2 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

The biggest attribute a QB needs is the ability to think and solve problems quickly.

 

That's why it's germane.

 

 

It's completely different types of problem-solving though. The thought process involved in "If someone is dropping into coverage over here, that means there's probably an opening over here" is completely different than "What word, when added to the beginning of MILL and the end of CHAIN, creates two other words?"

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 4/17/2018 at 8:38 AM, the skycap said:

Ben Solak

 

Solak is the "Contextualized QB" guy with NDT scouting.  He does like Jackson, but he doesn't put him #1

He talked with Schopp but I think it was earlier last week?  Monday or Tues?

 

20 hours ago, DCOrange said:

 

For what it's worth, Benjamin Allbright cited velocity numbers from the Combine that said Lamar hit 54 MPH. Still not quite the 55 that is considered the ideal, but damn close.

 

It's completely different types of problem-solving though. The thought process involved in "If someone is dropping into coverage over here, that means there's probably an opening over here" is completely different than "What word, when added to the beginning of MILL and the end of CHAIN, creates two other words?"

 

Yes. 

 

Both these sorts of thought processes improve with familiarity and practice.  Many of us from scholastically-focused families have been practicing the Wonderlic type of smarts thought processes since young.

       
I would get my clock cleaned if I stepped out on a football field and was asked to do the sort of rapid pattern recognition/decision/action  NFL QB need to master; while smart at standardized tests, I am "dumb as a rock" where the real-time mental processing required of practical football QBing is concerned..

 

As far as the public information we have, while putting enough work in to keep grades up and be eligible to play in HS and for a college scholarship, Jackson has been focused on mastering the QB sort of problem solving since a young age.

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[PrimeTime101]

how long is this topic going to get dragged in the dirt for? just wondering.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

how long is this topic going to get dragged in the dirt for? just wondering.

 

Thanks for bumping it. 

[Solomon Grundy]

Not sure if people saw this article by Matt Fairburn 

 

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2018/03/lamar_jackson_steals_show_at_nfl_combine_meets_with_buffalo_bills.html

[Albwan]

Its starting again, this time the qb isnt even on the team.

[Sky Diver]

On 3/26/2018 at 5:09 PM, joesixpack said:

 

I think the point is if Rosen's in that situation, he WON'T do that.

 

Which is what I and many others want. Throw it away.

 

 

One of the knocks on Rosen is that he tries to make plays when he should throw the ball away.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Solomon Grundy]

https://www.cover1.net/5-reasons-lamar-jackson-is-the-bills-target-in-the-draft/