Making the case for Lamar Jackson

[1billsfan]

1 minute ago, Derby Dan said:

I cannot believe we are discussing this loser still.  Please stop

 

Arians = Idiot

 

LOL

 

[xRUSHx]

59 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

As for your comparison of the two, it's as if you're saying all sports cars are the same. However, Taylor is a Camaro and Jackson is a Lamborghini.

 

 

 

 

Haha, take a look at the lower half of Jackson, toothpick legs. Comparing players let's say a NFL player is like a real Mack truck and Jackson a little school girl. Jackson will get creamed in the NFL, lots of IR is in his career IMO

Edited April 15, 2018 by xRUSHx

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[billspro]

On 2018-04-13 at 6:31 AM, Buddy Hix said:

I like Jackson, not as much as Mayfield or Darnold but when the cost of moving up is factored in I think Jackson would be a good selection. Watson's accuracy was questioned last year and he looked great, so that critique doesn't scare me off of Jackson.

 

I'm pretty much good with anybody but Allen and Ruldolph, as long as it doesn't cost the Bills next year's 1st as well.

 

I tried numerous times to tell people Watson didn’t have accuracy issues. In fact my passing comparison for him was Drew Brees. Watson was the most underrated QB prospect in years. Jackson on the other hand does have accuracy issues. He has more over throws on tape then any other QB in the top ten prospects. The concerns about his accuracy are very legitimate. His running ability may be able to overcome his deficiencies as a passer. The other problem with Jackson is he beat up on lesser talented defences but did not have a good game against any of his top opponents this year. Watson always showed up in the big games. This comparison needs to end, they are very different players.

[billspro]

 

 

 

 

These four games show Jackson against NFL talent. It also shows a blueprint on how good NFL defences would stop him. I honestly can’t see this guy being able to beat a Belichick coached defence.

[John from Riverside]

On 4/14/2018 at 6:14 AM, xRUSHx said:

Why get rid of Tyrod if your just going to draft a QB just like him. No thanks I want a true pocket QB. Hey dont give Jackson too much to learn did his pushers see his WLscore? Limited in a simplified system, Tyrod all over again.

 

It is sad how some want to settle for what is left, the old Whaley way. I'd rather see this staff take a real swing at getting better. Is it just me or is it the old Tyrod diehards on these boards that are pushing hard to draft his clone? Looking at the names posting support for Jackson sure like the same ones that wouldn' t let Tyrod go. I can hear them now, McCoy is only good because Jackson makes him be a better RB, if the OC would just dumb down the system and Taylor make it for Jackson we would be great. JMO

because HE ISNT JUST LIKE HIM.....only to the lazy posters

5 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

 

 

 

These four games show Jackson against NFL talent. It also shows a blueprint on how good NFL defences would stop him. I honestly can’t see this guy being able to beat a Belichick coached defence.

Do you think that none of these top 3 qbs dont have bad throws?  Get sacked?

 

There was PLENTY of solid plays by Jackson in those clips.  And very little NFL talent on those teams to help him going against colleges with first round picks on defense.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Derby Dan said:

Jackson won’t make it

I cant take anything you take seriously

[87168]

1 hour ago, Derby Dan said:

I cannot believe we are discussing this loser still.  Please stop

 

2 minutes ago, Derby Dan said:

Jackson won’t make it

who hurt you?

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Derby Dan said:

Should I care.

Just silly to keep discuiing nonsense

Dumbest comment yet

I think you should care more about your 3rd person posts.....you are easily the biggest clown we have.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Derby Dan said:

We want Allen 

Who is the we?  You got a mouse in your pocket?

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Derby Dan said:

The brain trust at obd

Will you please stop acting like you actually know something?

 

Nobody believes you

 

Everyone thinks your full of doo doo

 

I agree with everyone

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, Derby Dan said:

Okay, your opinion I cannot tell you the people who privately write me for the scoop

If the voices in your head start telling you to hurt yourself....seek help sir

[billspro]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

because HE ISNT JUST LIKE HIM.....only to the lazy posters

Do you think that none of these top 3 qbs dont have bad throws?  Get sacked?

 

There was PLENTY of solid plays by Jackson in those clips.  And very little NFL talent on those teams to help him going against colleges with first round picks on defense.

 

Almost all of them were runs though. If you just looks at the throws that is 5th round QB play. I can show you much more advanced passing from Logan Woodside if you would like.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Iamkrgr]

Lamar Jackson is a really good prospect. If none of Rosen, Mayfield or Darnold are available (to pick or to trade for) i'd probably take Jackson at 12. 

 

I think under the right coaching staff/system he could be really good. From everything i've read and watched of Jackson he's got a terrific work ethic. Concerns of a dual threat QB being more susceptible to injury are overblown. Injuries are more of a factor when a player has had previous injuries, suspect work ethic, or in a lot of cases poor luck. 

 

I personally want one of Mayfield, Rosen or Darnold  but i wouldn't be the least bit upset if Lamar Jackson is our consolation prize. He is not Tyrod 2.0. 

[Solomon Grundy]

7 hours ago, xRUSHx said:

Haha, take a look at the lower half of Jackson, toothpick legs. Comparing players let's say a NFL player is like a real Mack truck and Jackson a little school girl. Jackson will get creamed in the NFL, lots of IR is in his career IMO

He hasn't an injury in his collegiate career unlike Rosen, the pocket passer

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 4/14/2018 at 7:34 AM, stuvian said:

I think Jackson is the surest thing at QB in this draft. If we take him at 12 without trading up it would be icing on the cake

 

I like Jackson, but I respectfully disagree.  I would not be upset if we took him without a trade-up, but I would prefer if we could somehow trade up and get Rosen, Mayfield, or Darnold, pretty much in that order.

2 hours ago, billspro said:

 

Almost all of them were runs though. If you just looks at the throws that is 5th round QB play. I can show you much more advanced passing from Logan Woodside if you would like.

 

You really can't, sorry. 

 

I understand about watching Jackson on film.  The runs are so astonishing that it's hard to watch the things you need to watch to evaluate a passer.  Skycap (I think) turned me on to a video that was just Jackson's TD throws, which was the first time I was able to notice that he was really a pretty good passer. 

This evaluation by Cover1 is pretty good: https://www.cover1.net/scouting-report-qb-lamar-jackson-louisville/

 

I don't believe he's one of the top 3 QB in the draft, but he's a far better passer than he gets credit for with many.  He threw for 3500 yds and 30 TD last year and 3600 yds/27 TD this year, TD/INT about 3:1.  Those are actually very similar passing stats to Josh Rosen.

[BigBuff423]

25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I like Jackson, but I respectfully disagree.  I would not be upset if we took him without a trade-up, but I would prefer if we could somehow trade up and get Rosen, Mayfield, or Darnold, pretty much in that order.

 

You really can't, sorry. 

 

I understand about watching Jackson on film.  The runs are so astonishing that it's hard to watch the things you need to watch to evaluate a passer.  Skycap (I think) turned me on to a video that was just Jackson's TD throws, which was the first time I was able to notice that he was really a pretty good passer. 

This evaluation by Cover1 is pretty good: https://www.cover1.net/scouting-report-qb-lamar-jackson-louisville/

 

I don't believe he's one of the top 3 QB in the draft, but he's a far better passer than he gets credit for with many.  He threw for 3500 yds and 30 TD last year and 3600 yds/27 TD this year, TD/INT about 3:1.  Those are actually very similar passing stats to Josh Rosen.

 

Thank you for posting this - but I’ve linked Cover1 scouting reports and put out stats and information - those who discredit all those sources, simply decide NOT to like Jackson despite objective data. I’m sure not anywhere close to all or even some, but there is a faction who just don’t like Jackson because he looks like Tyrod - even though he is much, much better already - any type of comparison behind and ends with Vick.

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I like Jackson, but I respectfully disagree.  I would not be upset if we took him without a trade-up, but I would prefer if we could somehow trade up and get Rosen, Mayfield, or Darnold, pretty much in that order.

 

You really can't, sorry. 

 

I understand about watching Jackson on film.  The runs are so astonishing that it's hard to watch the things you need to watch to evaluate a passer.  Skycap (I think) turned me on to a video that was just Jackson's TD throws, which was the first time I was able to notice that he was really a pretty good passer. 

This evaluation by Cover1 is pretty good: https://www.cover1.net/scouting-report-qb-lamar-jackson-louisville/

 

I don't believe he's one of the top 3 QB in the draft, but he's a far better passer than he gets credit for with many.  He threw for 3500 yds and 30 TD last year and 3600 yds/27 TD this year, TD/INT about 3:1.  Those are actually very similar passing stats to Josh Rosen.

Hapless, I respect your opinion but I do believe Jackson is in the top 3. The stats you reference above were produced with less than NFL players. Meaning none of his teammates were able to crack a NFL roster. That's why I'd rank him over Darnold. Darnold had some pretty good talent around him. He also protects the ball better than Darnold. Honestly, the only one I'd rank above him is this year's Heisman trophy winner. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by the skycap

[Spiderweb]

On 3/26/2018 at 3:56 PM, 502Buffs said:

Feel free to criticize anything I'm about to type here, but I implore you to read the entire post first because I simply don't understand why more Bills fans refuse to jump on the Lamar Jackson train.

 

He threw for more one more touchdown than Rosen and Darnold in a much tougher conference on a less talented team. (this is coming from a Louisville fan so please, call me biased, I'll be the first to admit it) He ran for 50 touchdowns in his career. He threw for 27 touchdowns and 10 interceptions in his last year while rushing for 18 touchdowns. This is following a year in which he won the Heisman trophy and every coach is keying in on stopping him more than any other single player. He had the same amount of interceptions as Rosen last year, yet Rosen is consistently crowned by "experts" as the most polished, accurate, NFL ready QB in the draft, while Jackson is considered the most innacurate QB in the draft...WHAT??

 

Experts praise Allen for his arm strength and how much zip he can put on the ball, he's also praised for his big frame. Meanwhile Jackson is only 2 inches shorter than Allen...oh and here's a video of Lamar throwing a football 95 yards in high school: 

 

If that video is too low quality for you I understand. Here's a video of Jackson nearly breaking dude's fingers in 2014:

 

 

The receivers' reactions say it all.

 

Lamar Jackson had the highest receiver drop rate in the country last year. Why is this? Because he has an absolute ROCKET of an arm. One of the main criticisms of Jackson is his poor completion percentage. Here are the completion stats for each of the top QB prospects last year per sports-reference.com.

Darnold: 64.9%

Mayfield: 70.5%

Rosen: 62.6%

Allen: 56.2%

Jackson: 57% With the highest receiver drop rate in the country

 

He's consistently had a laxkluster offensive line during his tenure while going up against some of the best defensive lines in the country in the ACC. His running back was a quarterback converted to receiver (with the emergence of Jackson) converted again to running back in Jackson's final year. With this being said Jackson's statistics are absolutely unprecedented. Michael Vick has gone on record several times saying Jackson is better than he was at that age, which for whatever reason seems to mean nothing to anybody.

 

2001 Michael Vick: 6'0 210lbs

2018 Lamar Jackson: 6'3 200lbs

 

Experts also question his football IQ...take away your bias if who he is as a man, if you don't think Bobby Petrino runs one of the more complicated offensive systems in football then I have to question whether you actually watch both college and professional football or if you just allow yourself to be spoon-fed whatever NFL Network and ESPN tells you. During Jackson's freshman year when he came in and dominated Bobby Petrino went on record as saying Jackson didn't even know the majority of the plays yet when he got his first start. The next year he had one of the best statistical season in history and won the Heisman trophy over Deshaun Watson who probably would have won it almost any other year with his 2016-17 stats and is currently looking like the best QB from last years draft.

 

Football IQ can be taught, talent cannot.

 

I'm not going to sully this post by trying to make the case for Jackson being the victim of some systemic racial QB bias, but the case these so-called experts make for the rest of the quarterbacks in this draft being a better prospect than Jackson just do not make any sense to me. The only quarterback I think who may be a better prospect than Jackson is Mayfield. There are holes all over this roster despite our lucking into the playoffs last year on a miracle throw/upset. Trading up into the top 5 to take a Rosen or Allen would be a huge mistake IMO when we can draft Jackson at either 12 or 22 and use our other 5 picks in the top 3 rounds to take franchise players who will KEEP us in the playoffs.

 

Thanks for reading. Feel free to make a counter argument, but I'm going to finish this post with his highlights from last year and I just want you to imagine a backfield with Lamar Jackson and Shady McCoy and tell me that wouldn't be a fun time to be a Bills fan.

 

I can't  simply because i watched him the last two years in Louisville, the area where I live. Great athlete, simply not the accurate stong armed passer needed. I say.  Get off this bandwagon......Now............

[Domdab99]

Saquon Barkley's stats for the last three years as a RB:

671 attempts, 3843 yards, 5.7 YPC, 43 TD

 

Lamar Jackson's stats as a runner for the last three years: 

 

655 attempts, 4132 yards, 6.3 YPC, 50 TD

 

Now add his passing numbers. 

 

The kid is special. 

[billspro]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I like Jackson, but I respectfully disagree.  I would not be upset if we took him without a trade-up, but I would prefer if we could somehow trade up and get Rosen, Mayfield, or Darnold, pretty much in that order.

 

You really can't, sorry. 

 

I understand about watching Jackson on film.  The runs are so astonishing that it's hard to watch the things you need to watch to evaluate a passer.  Skycap (I think) turned me on to a video that was just Jackson's TD throws, which was the first time I was able to notice that he was really a pretty good passer. 

This evaluation by Cover1 is pretty good: https://www.cover1.net/scouting-report-qb-lamar-jackson-louisville/

 

I don't believe he's one of the top 3 QB in the draft, but he's a far better passer than he gets credit for with many.  He threw for 3500 yds and 30 TD last year and 3600 yds/27 TD this year, TD/INT about 3:1.  Those are actually very similar passing stats to Josh Rosen.

 

He does have some nice TD throws. I don’t think he is a horrible passer, he is just not a first or second day passer. If he was he would probably be the first pick in the draft because he is an electric runner.

 

This is a good listen on why Jackson is not at the level of the other QBs as a passer.

https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/draft-ep-3-ranking-the-qb-class/id913714358?i=1000401894731&mt=2

 

Those cover 1 throws were fantastic, no doubt about it. You can see everything you would want in a franchise QB. The problem is when you watch the full games those throws are few and far between. He is very erratic when throwing intermediate throws.

Edited April 16, 2018 by billspro

[billspro]

51 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

Saquon Barkley's stats for the last three years as a RB:

671 attempts, 3843 yards, 5.7 YPC, 43 TD

 

Lamar Jackson's stats as a runner for the last three years: 

 

655 attempts, 4132 yards, 6.3 YPC, 50 TD

 

Now add his passing numbers. 

 

The kid is special. 

 

He is the best running QB I have ever seen. He might be a better runner than Vick.

1 hour ago, Spiderweb said:

I can't  simply because i watched him the last two years in Louisville, the area where I live. Great athlete, simply not the accurate stong armed passer needed. I say.  Get off this bandwagon......Now............

 

Finally someone who has actually watched his games.

1 hour ago, the skycap said:

Hapless, I respect your opinion but I do believe Jackson is in the top 3. The stats you reference above were produced with less than NFL players. Meaning none of his teammates were able to crack a NFL roster. That's why I'd rank him over Darnold. Darnold had some pretty good talent around him. He also protects the ball better than Darnold. Honestly, the only one I'd rank above him is this year's Heisman trophy winner. 

 

He plays a Louisville it’s not like it is Toledo. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by billspro

[racketmaster]

It has been reported that the Bills have met with Jackson 1 time at the combine. These are usually quick interview sessions and I can’t imagine this regime drafting Jackson in the first round without an in depth interview and whiteboard session. The same and goes for Allen whom the Bills were reported to have met one time at the Senior Bowl. 

 

The Bills have had pre draft visits or private workouts with Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield and Rudolph. The above 4 qbs are your most likely candidates for a first round qb. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by racketmaster

[Buddy Hix]

22 hours ago, billspro said:

 

I tried numerous times to tell people Watson didn’t have accuracy issues. In fact my passing comparison for him was Drew Brees. Watson was the most underrated QB prospect in years. Jackson on the other hand does have accuracy issues. He has more over throws on tape then any other QB in the top ten prospects. The concerns about his accuracy are very legitimate. His running ability may be able to overcome his deficiencies as a passer. The other problem with Jackson is he beat up on lesser talented defences but did not have a good game against any of his top opponents this year. Watson always showed up in the big games. This comparison needs to end, they are very different players.

I wasn't comparing Jackson and Watson per se, just that people passed on Watson because of accuracy issues that I felt were overblown.

 

As for Jackson, I like him, thought he improved as a passer this past year and have him as my #4 behind Darnold, Baker and Rosen. I see no reason to move up if the player who is left is Allen, and question the cost to move up to get one of the top 3 I like, but wouldn't be PO'd if it happened. The thought of grabbing Smith at #12 and Jackson at #22 is more appealing to me than moving up because I think Jackson could be another Vick, that is the comparison I have been making.

[Solomon Grundy]

https://mobile.twitter.com/PFF_College/status/983125093525151744/photo/1

 

BenjaminSolak

·

Apr 14

 

Fun fact: Lamar Jackson had THE HIGHEST Adjusted Conversion Rate on 3rd and 5+ among Draft-eligible QBs in 2017. Lamar Jackson: 52.2% (!) Mason Rudolph: 48.8% Baker Mayfield: 45.8% Josh Rosen: 40.0% Sam Darnold: 37.2% Josh Allen: 35.9%

Edited April 16, 2018 by the skycap

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[John from Riverside]

I think that the polar opposites on this have been pretty well identified.

 

Some cant get past Tyrod Taylor and are fearful of a QB that is actually a athlete too

 

The fact is......guys like Rosen are more accurate and should be the first choice

 

The fact is....at the present moment we are not in a position to draft Rosen

 

The fact is....LJ is very talented.....as mechanical issues that can be corrected.....has a ton of physical upside....and would be a excellent plan B if we wanted to sit and take a qb at 12 and keep our picks for things like WR, LB, OL

[Gugny]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I think that the polar opposites on this have been pretty well identified.

 

Some cant get past Tyrod Taylor and are fearful of a QB that is actually a athlete too

 

The fact is......guys like Rosen are more accurate and should be the first choice

 

The fact is....at the present moment we are not in a position to draft Rosen

 

The fact is....LJ is very talented.....as mechanical issues that can be corrected.....has a ton of physical upside....and would be a excellent plan B if we wanted to sit and take a qb at 12 and keep our picks for things like WR, LB, OL

 

You left out the most important fact.

 

This kid is dumber than dirt.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

You left out the most important fact.

 

This kid is dumber than dirt.

I dont care if he cant spell his own name

 

The kid is good at football

[Gugny]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I dont care if he cant spell his own name

 

The kid is good at football

 

If he was a CB, John, I'd be with you.

 

But he is (kind of) a QB.  Bona fide morons don't make good NFL QBs.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, the skycap said:

Hapless, I respect your opinion but I do believe Jackson is in the top 3. The stats you reference above were produced with less than NFL players. Meaning none of his teammates were able to crack a NFL roster. That's why I'd rank him over Darnold. Darnold had some pretty good talent around him. He also protects the ball better than Darnold. Honestly, the only one I'd rank above him is this year's Heisman trophy winner. 

 

It's all good!  My rational has to do with technique.  Ever since Fitz and EJM, I'm all up on QB who are accurate already when we get our hands on them. 

Jackson is erratic in his throwing sometimes.  He's less erratic than people think because he does sometimes put the ball off from the WR but where the DB has no shot, but there's no getting away from it, sometimes he's inaccurate.  I think I can see why - I got to where I could watch Jackson throw, stop the video, and predict whether or not the throw would be accurate.

 

He's improved significantly all 3 years in college, and I think he can keep improving.  But I got to give Darnold the edge on where he is in technique, so I go Rosen-Mayfield-Darnold  (then I think there's a step down) Jackson-Allen  (another step) Rudolph.

 

And frankly, I hate to say this but I don't think we're the right place for him.  I'd like to see him go someplace where 1) he can sit if he needs to 2) the coaches are willing and able to develop him, and to tailor the playbook to his strengths.

 

But that's just me and I'm 100% in on different POV, as long as they're backed up with some kind of actual facts relevant to football (that would include anything Rosen has actually said, but not interpretations of what Rosen actually said or extrapolations based on interpretations of what Rosen actually said)

[502Buffs]

14 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

If he was a CB, John, I'd be with you.

 

But he is (kind of) a QB.  Bona fide morons don't make good NFL QBs.

Because he scored poorly on a 15 minute standardized test? With that logic let's make it a requirement that you have to post your SAT/ACT score with every reply. Doesn't matter that he ran the most complicated offense of all QB prospects (the same Erhardt/Perkins offense Daboll plans to run), ran the read option to perfection and has never had a disciplinary problem.

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, 502Buffs said:

Because he scored poorly on a 15 minute standardized test? With that logic let's make it a requirement that you have to post your SAT/ACT score with every reply. Doesn't matter that he ran the most complicated offense of all QB prospects (the same Erhardt/Perkins offense Daboll plans to run), ran the read option to perfection and has never had a disciplinary problem.

 

I agree 100%.  It absolutely does not matter.

[1billsfan]

23 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

You left out the most important fact.

 

This kid is dumber than dirt.

 

Your personal attacks on Lamar are really embarrassing and insulting to this board.

 

[502Buffs]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

I agree 100%.  It absolutely does not matter.

Way to back up your point with examples. Lets bring in another Harvard QB! Isn't there a guy from Princeton in the draft?

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

Your personal attacks on Lamar are really embarrassing and insulting to this board.

 

 

Calling a stupid person stupid is a personal attack?  Color me guilty, then.

Just now, 502Buffs said:

Way to back up your point with examples. Lets bring in another Harvard QB! Isn't there a guy from Princeton in the draft?

 

That's brilliant.   Let me guess ... you're the guy who, after a terrorist runs over a bunch of people with a car, says - "Well, I guess we should outlaw cars now!"  uh hut, uh hut.

[CommonCents]

6 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

Because he scored poorly on a 15 minute standardized test? With that logic let's make it a requirement that you have to post your SAT/ACT score with every reply. Doesn't matter that he ran the most complicated offense of all QB prospects (the same Erhardt/Perkins offense Daboll plans to run), ran the read option to perfection and has never had a disciplinary problem.

Greg Gabriel "Louisville does not have a very complex offense" 

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2018/02/22/greg-gabriel-the-evaluation-of-lamar-jackson-as-a-qb-prospect-is-ongoing/ac0uv9s/

[PastorMKC]

I don't think he will last as long as RGIII because the league has caught up with these running QB's ... JMHO 

[502Buffs]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Calling a stupid person stupid is a personal attack?  Color me guilty, then.

 

That's brilliant.   Let me guess ... you're the guy who, after a terrorist runs over a bunch of people with a car, says - "Well, I guess we should outlaw cars now!"  uh hut, uh hut.

Your argument this entire time has been if a quarterback scores poorly on the wonderlic, or has a southern slang in interviews, he can't play quarterback. The hypocrisy is mind numbing.