2-23: Greg Cosell Talks QBs on the John Murphy Show

[26CornerBlitz]

2-23: Greg Cosell talks NFL draft QBs and Combine on the John Murphy Show (23:40)

 

Good interview with Cosell. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Plenty of good discussion on Tyrod, Darnold, Rosen, Lamar Jackson, Mayfield, and Josh Allen.

 

Interesting to hear him dispel the myth on Jackson as a run first QB who doesn't understand NFL passing concepts.  (Watch the film)

[Solomon Grundy]

Listen to Danny Kanell

 

 

[K-9]

Ryan Nassib: best QB in his class. 

[Augie]

Great stuff. I tend to like Greg Costello because he’s more about film and production than just stats and impressions and trying to look smart. Having said that....I still don’t know squat about what to expect! The draft and the next few years will be very interesting to watch. 

[JohnC]

I always enjoy listening to Greg Cosell. He made the key point that if you have a conviction on a qb then it is worth making the move to get your favored prospect. And the counter point is if you don't have that conviction on the prospect then don't make the costly move up just for the sake of addressing the qb issue. My impression from his appearance on the show is that he believed that the top three prospect (Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield) all would be worthy of pursuing. I also got the sense that although he recognizes Allen's physical talents he has some qualms about how he plays. 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Ryan Nassib: best QB in his class. 

Yep, I remember that "expert assessment." Of course, better than EJ Manuel and Geno Smith that year ... he may yet turn out to be right.

[K-9]

17 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yep, I remember that "expert assessment." Of course, better than EJ Manuel and Geno Smith that year ... he may yet turn out to be right.

Heck, I’ll go as far as to say he was right! But for all the wrong reasons. 

[bouds]

Thanks for posting this, fan of Greg, does good work.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

2-23: Greg Cosell talks NFL draft QBs and Combine on the John Murphy Show (23:40)

 

Good interview with Cosell. 

 

Greg Cosell is one of the pundits I really respect on QB.  He's also a guy who doesn't like to say anything bad about people.

While being positive about their talent, you could tell he felt Allen and even Darnold are guys who need a lot of technical development.

 

He seemed pretty firm on Jackson being a QB and wanting to see him get a chance to develop as a QB, and on Petrino running an offense with pro passing concepts.

 

Seems to see Rudolph pretty firmly as a 2nd tier talent.

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

Ryan Nassib: best QB in his class. 

 

He might be right for all we know.  We haven't seen him yet; you can't say much for the 4 QB drafted ahead of him.

[ALF]

Always enjoy Greg Cosell's  insight every friday with Murph. Really nice guy , humble Howard's nephew.

[machine gun kelly]

I like Greg Cosell.  It is odd not having Jaws and Hodge on the matchup show, but like how Cosell is n air now.  ESPN keeps firing people.

[dave mcbride]

Great listen.

[Woodman19]

How many Bills fans could stomach a 2 year wait for Jackson? That's the catch 22. Everyone wants a QB now which limits options since very few can likely perform from day 1.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, Woodman19 said:

How many Bills fans could stomach a 2 year wait for Jackson? That's the catch 22. Everyone wants a QB now which limits options since very few can likely perform from day 1.

 

We had better order in freakin' Maalox by the case then, if fan stomachs are what's been holding the Bills back from investing enough in QB and giving it time.

 

After carefully reading scouting reports and watching film for myself, there is one (1) QB I see in the draft who is not going to need a couple years of development, and very careful coaching to bring him along.  That would be Rosen.  And even there he is going to have warts, and has some people I overall value who don't think much of him.  "Trent Green".  The unknown question is if his "attitude" will put off enough people that we could grab him.  Bill Polian's generation, yep yep.  Brandon Beane's, not so much.  Who is driving those top picks?  Johnny Manziel didn't put off the Browns.....

 

Jackson, surprisingly, may be second most ready IMO.  While his mechanics need more work, he seems to actually do the most with reading the defense and making progressions.  Jackson already knows where the throwing lanes are - they're his running lanes and he sees them!  and he's already started to see them as throwing lanes. (I give kudos to Petrino there who has by reports deliberately coached that by whistling it dead whenever Jackson would take off in practice.) Mayfield has the double handicap of needing to learn to find and step into throwing lanes vs rolling out, and adjusting to a more pro-style offense, but he just has that "chip on his shoulder".  The two of them could probably play in a year, but with some care to limit what they're asked to do.

After watching film myself and digesting scouting reports, I'm persuaded that Darnold is far more of a project than his draft position portrays, Allen even more so.  They are both extremely talented, high ceiling "boom or bust" prospects who need a couple years to get themselves right mechanically and learn the pro game, and who may never get it at all, nor (in Allen's case) improve their accuracy enough.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

I like Greg Cosell.  It is odd not having Jaws and Hodge on the matchup show, but like how Cosell is n air now.  ESPN keeps firing people.

 

Cosell just loves watching film and it shows.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[KDIGGZ]

If you want the best QB you draft Josh Rosen. Theres really no discussion. Anyone else you are hoping they fix things or they have some intangible that you admire. Get the best QB, don't over think it

Edited February 24, 2018 by kdiggz

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

If you want the best QB you draft Josh Rosen. Theres really no discussion. Anyone else you are hoping they fix things or they have some intangible that you admire. Get the best QB, don't over think it

 

Rosen himself is not without question marks - mostly regarding his injury history.  He had his first shoulder problem sideline him from sports at age 12 (Tennis)

 

The point is, it isn't just "ask and have".  I would love it if we somehow manage to draft Rosen, but unless we manage to move up (and even #2 might not be enough) or 20 professional NFL GMs and scouting staffs are dumber than you, it's not going to happen.

[KDIGGZ]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Rosen himself is not without question marks - mostly regarding his injury history.  He had his first shoulder problem sideline him from sports at age 12 (Tennis)

 

The point is, it isn't just "ask and have".  I would love it if we somehow manage to draft Rosen, but unless we manage to move up (and even #2 might not be enough) or 20 professional NFL GMs and scouting staffs are dumber than you, it's not going to happen.

Any knocks on Rosen has nothing to do with throwing a football. Maybe he will get hurt but so could any of these guys. Maybe he will be a jerk but who cares as long as he is completing passes. If you draft someone else it's because you like them as a person and hope they can overcome something in their game to get to the level that Rosen is already at. It's a no brainer for me

[JaCrispy]

22 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

If you want the best QB you draft Josh Rosen. Theres really no discussion. Anyone else you are hoping they fix things or they have some intangible that you admire. Get the best QB, don't over think it

I agree Rosen is the best talent...I just don’t think he has the toughness to last...he is a former tennis star after all. 

 

Therefore, I like Mayfield best... best combo of skill and toughness imo.

Edited February 24, 2018 by JaCrispy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

Any knocks on Rosen has nothing to do with throwing a football. Maybe he will get hurt but so could any of these guys. Maybe he will be a jerk but who cares as long as he is completing passes. If you draft someone else it's because you like them as a person and hope they can overcome something in their game to get to the level that Rosen is already at. It's a no brainer for me

 

What part of that "isn't just ask and have" escaped you? 

 

There are 20 teams drafting ahead of us, and no guarantee that #1 wants to trade out at any price, or that Rosen will be available any lower.

 

Also, just like Bradford....any of those guys can blow out a knee, but when a guy has already injured his knee 3x, you got to think it's more likely.

When a guy had a shoulder problem at Age 12 and then shoulder surgery as a college sophomore, you got to think that shoulder problems are a watchout.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[KDIGGZ]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What part of that "isn't just ask and have" escaped you? 

 

There are 20 teams drafting ahead of us, and no guarantee that #1 wants to trade out at any price, or that Rosen will be available any lower.

 

Also, just like Bradford....any of those guys can blow out a knee, but when a guy has already injured his knee 3x, you got to think it's more likely.

When a guy had a shoulder problem at Age 12 and then shoulder surgery as a college sophomore, you got to think that shoulder problems are a watchout.

Cleveland isn't taking him, he said he doesn't want to play there. We have an opportunity to trade up 2-4 to get him. We have 2x 1sts, 2x 2nds and we have Glenn, Tyrod, Shaq on the trading block. More than enough ammo to get your guy

6 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I agree Rosen is the best talent...I just don’t think he has the toughness to last...he is a former tennis star after all. 

 

Therefore, I like Mayfield best... best combo of skill and toughness imo.

Yep, but like I said you have to talk yourself out of Rosen because this might happen or that might happen. But my argument is take the best QB and hope for the best. More likely to work out than someone who isn't the best QB and you hope he somehow improves

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, kdiggz said:

Cleveland isn't taking him, he said he doesn't want to play there. We have an opportunity to trade up 2-4 to get him. We have 2x 1sts, 2x 2nds and we have Glenn, Tyrod, Shaq on the trading block. More than enough ammo to get your guy

 

Draft ammo only fires if it fits in your partners gun, which is far from a sure thing.

 

It has been reported that Rosen doesn't want to play there, but if true, it's unclear if that's "I would prefer to play elsewhere" or "if drafted by Cleveland, I WILL hold out" a la Elway/Eli Manning.  There is nothing from Rosen or his camp saying that, it's all unsourced rumor, just like the rumor all Rosen's teammates hate his guts and snub his birthday (which has been contradicted by actual teammates)

[KDIGGZ]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Draft ammo only fires if it fits in your partners gun, which is far from a sure thing.

 

It has been reported that Rosen doesn't want to play there, but if true, it's unclear if that's "I would prefer to play elsewhere" or "if drafted by Cleveland, I WILL hold out" a la Elway/Eli Manning.  There is nothing from Rosen or his camp saying that, it's all unsourced rumor, just like the rumor all Rosen's teammates hate his guts and snub his birthday (which has been contradicted by actual teammates)

they will have the opportunity to talk to him next week.  if he gives indication he doesn't want to play for Buffalo then I'm sure they will look elsewhere.  but where we stand right now, that is the best QB in the draft and if we can get him then we have to go get him

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, kdiggz said:

Any knocks on Rosen has nothing to do with throwing a football. Maybe he will get hurt but so could any of these guys. Maybe he will be a jerk but who cares as long as he is completing passes. If you draft someone else it's because you like them as a person and hope they can overcome something in their game to get to the level that Rosen is already at. It's a no brainer for me

Hopefully GM has a brain so "no brainer" decisions will be made.  Brainless decisions in future will be referred in future as "kdoggzes".

[JaCrispy]

2 hours ago, kdiggz said:

Cleveland isn't taking him, he said he doesn't want to play there. We have an opportunity to trade up 2-4 to get him. We have 2x 1sts, 2x 2nds and we have Glenn, Tyrod, Shaq on the trading block. More than enough ammo to get your guy

Yep, but like I said you have to talk yourself out of Rosen because this might happen or that might happen. But my argument is take the best QB and hope for the best. More likely to work out than someone who isn't the best QB and you hope he somehow improves

Good point 

Edited February 24, 2018 by JaCrispy

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, kdiggz said:

Any knocks on Rosen has nothing to do with throwing a football. Maybe he will get hurt but so could any of these guys. Maybe he will be a jerk but who cares as long as he is completing passes. If you draft someone else it's because you like them as a person and hope they can overcome something in their game to get to the level that Rosen is already at. It's a no brainer for me

I agree, he’s the best qb in the draft imo.  But being injury prone IS real.  It’s not made up. He IS injury prone.  He is slight in muscle and weight.  He seems to be a bit douchey.  Douchey may not play into how his career plays out but the injury history could end it. It’s a no brainer for me that he should be the 1st QB selected, but it’s not a no brainer that we should trade the house to be able to draft him.  I’m glad I’m not making that decision.  I just don’t see Beane pulling the trigger on trading boatloads of picks for him.  I could see him making a deal for a qb prospect that slides during the draft, just not trading to #1 or 2.  I expect someone to trade up with the giants for #2 prior to the draft but I don’t believe it will be us.

 

not sure where I stand yet regarding us trading up to the top 3 to snag one of these guys.  As long as we don’t draft Mason Rudolph at 21 or 22, I have faith

[#34fan]

23 hours ago, the skycap said:

Listen to Danny Kanell

 

 

 

He said he's  a PROJECT the COULD BE worth the risk in the second round.

 

-I agree.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

He said he's  a PROJECT the COULD BE worth the risk in the second round.

-I agree.

 

That describes Allen as well, but he (and Jackson) may well be drafted at the bottom of the 1st.

 

Or, GMs may succumb to the lure of a guy who "looks the way you want your QB to look" and can throw faster than the interstate speed limit

[Mat68]

Rosen is the best thrower of the football.  From a family an up bringing where he is self aware and knows what he is and smart enough to know what he can be.  Give me Rosen.  He is Matt Ryan before social media.  If he slides 1 spot and im Buffalo I move up. 

[pimp on da' net]

22 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yep, I remember that "expert assessment." Of course, better than EJ Manuel and Geno Smith that year ... he may yet turn out to be right.

22 hours ago, K-9 said:

Heck, I’ll go as far as to say he was right! But for all the wrong reasons. 

 

Classic case of the unknown is always better than the reality... Nassib has yet to even beat out camp competition to start for a team but there still you guy's that believe there a case for him. LOL

 

There an argument that if the Bills and Jets would have let EJ & Geno sit for a year or 2 to develop, that  they could have been serviceable  starters in the league.

 

How much nurturing does Nassib need to show promise? 5 more years?

 

Until then you're comparing apples to  oranges but flame on... 

[K-9]

43 minutes ago, pimp on da' net said:

 

Classic case of the unknown is always better than the reality... Nassib has yet to even beat out camp competition to start for a team but there still you guy's that believe there a case for him. LOL

 

There an argument that if the Bills and Jets would have let EJ & Geno sit for a year or 2 to develop, that  they could have been serviceable  starters in the league.

 

How much nurturing does Nassib need to show promise? 5 more years?

 

Until then you're comparing apples to  oranges but flame on... 

Flame on? Who is flaming anything here? My point is that Cosell was way out of line when he made that assessment and the ONLY reason he has a chance to be right is because other QBs in that draft have proved to be poor while he hasn’t done ANYTHING in the league to DISPROVE he doesn’t suck. Thus my remark that Cosell was right for all the wrong reasons. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, pimp on da' net said:

Classic case of the unknown is always better than the reality... Nassib has yet to even beat out camp competition to start for a team but there still you guy's that believe there a case for him. LOL

 

Not quite.  Nassib is done AFAIK - when was he even last on a team? 

 

I'm just not sure Cosell was wrong from the way he sees it.  Keep in mind it was a crappy QB draft.  Cosell is a technician.  He looks for passing technique.   He also says he does not try to compare from year to year, only within a year.   Nassib, I think, is a QB who played against a lower level of competition but he had a strong arm and better throwing technique than Geno Smith and better accuracy than EJM and better footwork than Glennon?  In a different year, I think he would have been classed down with the Peterman/Lauletta/White types, but examined against the three who were drafted higher, he looked better to Cosell  at the time.   The first 3 went to QB hungry teams, Nassib went to a team with a starter.  Giants would have moved on from EJM, Geno, or Glennon by now too, maybe faster.  End of story.

 

K-9 put it more succinctly "he was right for the wrong reasons"

 

3 hours ago, pimp on da' net said:

There an argument that if the Bills and Jets would have let EJ & Geno sit for a year or 2 to develop, that  they could have been serviceable  starters in the league.

 

I have made that argument with regard to EJM, but I was told that I was completely mistaken and furthermore, totally wrong LOL

 

3 hours ago, pimp on da' net said:

How much nurturing does Nassib need to show promise? 5 more years?

 

Cosell is never trying to assess what each QB might become, but where they are now and relative to each other.

[Mango]

On 2/23/2018 at 11:36 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Greg Cosell is one of the pundits I really respect on QB.  He's also a guy who doesn't like to say anything bad about people.

While being positive about their talent, you could tell he felt Allen and even Darnold are guys who need a lot of technical development.

 

He seemed pretty firm on Jackson being a QB and wanting to see him get a chance to develop as a QB, and on Petrino running an offense with pro passing concepts.

 

Seems to see Rudolph pretty firmly as a 2nd tier talent.

 

He might be right for all we know.  We haven't seen him yet; you can't say much for the 4 QB drafted ahead of him.

 

 

I assume most most of these are a joke but wanted to throw this out there.

 

NYG- Not resigned. Replaced by Geno “Flat Earth” Smith

 

NO- Signed and cut in less than 90 days.

 

JAX- signed and cut in less than 30 days, by a team whose WB depth chart starts with Blake Bortles. 

[FearLess Price]

22 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

I agree Rosen is the best talent...I just don’t think he has the toughness to last...he is a former tennis star after all. 

 

Therefore, I like Mayfield best... best combo of skill and toughness imo.

 

Agree.

Lets see if we move up for one of them, id be cool with either one.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Smuck  .Nassib ha. No Nassib will never start .

[bouds]

Greg was also on with former Bills Guard Ross Tucker, good listen, they will be doing a bunch of these going into the draft.  I feel the same way about Mayfield that Cosell does.   You hear all this **** about the guy, and they all seem to be lazy comparisons to Manziel, but when you sit down and watch, Mayfield and Manziel are nothing alike.  Mayfield knows where to go with the rock, doesn't try to improvise every single play, plays within the offense, extremely accurate with the ball.  Look skittish at times against the blitz, that's my biggest issue, the way he reacts in the pocket.  His OL was insanely good at OU.  I'd love to land Bake Mayfield.  It's funny listening to Cosell talk about how surprised he was when watching Mayfield, his ears told him one thing, eyes another.  Bottom line, watch first and then listen to what others have to say.

 

https://www.podcastone.com/episode/RTFP-803-Greg-Cosell

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by bouds

[Thurman#1]

On 2/26/2018 at 7:26 AM, bouds said:

Greg was also on with former Bills Guard Ross Tucker, good listen, they will be doing a bunch of these going into the draft.  I feel the same way about Mayfield that Cosell does.   You hear all this **** about the guy, and they all seem to be lazy comparisons to Manziel, but when you sit down and watch, Mayfield and Manziel are nothing alike.  Mayfield knows where to go with the rock, doesn't try to improvise every single play, plays within the offense, extremely accurate with the ball.  Look skittish at times against the blitz, that's my biggest issue, the way he reacts in the pocket.  His OL was insanely good at OU.  I'd love to land Bake Mayfield.  It's funny listening to Cosell talk about how surprised he was when watching Mayfield, his ears told him one thing, eyes another.  Bottom line, watch first and then listen to what others have to say.

 

https://www.podcastone.com/episode/RTFP-803-Greg-Cosell

 

 

 

I wouldn't mind Mayfield either.

[transplantbillsfan]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 4:36 AM, Woodman19 said:

How many Bills fans could stomach a 2 year wait for Jackson? That's the catch 22. Everyone wants a QB now which limits options since very few can likely perform from day 1.

 

Why a 2 year wait?

 

If we draft Jackson, which is turning up more and more in these mock drafts, he'll be the starter in 2019 after redshirting his rookie year, probably behind Taylor.

 

You better believe McDermott paid attention to what Andy Reid did this year.

[Kelly101]

shrug, i still like peter, man

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Why a 2 year wait?

 

If we draft Jackson, which is turning up more and more in these mock drafts, he'll be the starter in 2019 after redshirting his rookie year, probably behind Taylor.

 

You better believe McDermott paid attention to what Andy Reid did this year.

I think it will depend on the Bills record. If the Bills are winning with Tyrod, then Lamar will continue to sit. Lamar may even beat him out in camp.