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26CornerBlitz

2-23: Greg Cosell Talks QBs on the John Murphy Show

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Plenty of good discussion on Tyrod, Darnold, Rosen, Lamar Jackson, Mayfield, and Josh Allen.

 

Interesting to hear him dispel the myth on Jackson as a run first QB who doesn't understand NFL passing concepts.  (Watch the film)

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Ryan Nassib: best QB in his class. 

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Great stuff. I tend to like Greg Costello because he’s more about film and production than just stats and impressions and trying to look smart. Having said that....I still don’t know squat about what to expect! The draft and the next few years will be very interesting to watch. 

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I always enjoy listening to Greg Cosell. He made the key point that if you have a conviction on a qb then it is worth making the move to get your favored prospect. And the counter point is if you don't have that conviction on the prospect then don't make the costly move up just for the sake of addressing the qb issue. My impression from his appearance on the show is that he believed that the top three prospect (Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield) all would be worthy of pursuing. I also got the sense that although he recognizes Allen's physical talents he has some qualms about how he plays. 

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1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Ryan Nassib: best QB in his class. 

Yep, I remember that "expert assessment." Of course, better than EJ Manuel and Geno Smith that year ... he may yet turn out to be right.

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17 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yep, I remember that "expert assessment." Of course, better than EJ Manuel and Geno Smith that year ... he may yet turn out to be right.

Heck, I’ll go as far as to say he was right! But for all the wrong reasons. 

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Thanks for posting this, fan of Greg, does good work.

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4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Greg Cosell is one of the pundits I really respect on QB.  He's also a guy who doesn't like to say anything bad about people.

While being positive about their talent, you could tell he felt Allen and even Darnold are guys who need a lot of technical development.

 

He seemed pretty firm on Jackson being a QB and wanting to see him get a chance to develop as a QB, and on Petrino running an offense with pro passing concepts.

 

Seems to see Rudolph pretty firmly as a 2nd tier talent.

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

Ryan Nassib: best QB in his class. 

 

He might be right for all we know.  We haven't seen him yet; you can't say much for the 4 QB drafted ahead of him.

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Always enjoy Greg Cosell's  insight every friday with Murph. Really nice guy , humble Howard's nephew.

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I like Greg Cosell.  It is odd not having Jaws and Hodge on the matchup show, but like how Cosell is n air now.  ESPN keeps firing people.

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How many Bills fans could stomach a 2 year wait for Jackson? That's the catch 22. Everyone wants a QB now which limits options since very few can likely perform from day 1.

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49 minutes ago, Woodman19 said:

How many Bills fans could stomach a 2 year wait for Jackson? That's the catch 22. Everyone wants a QB now which limits options since very few can likely perform from day 1.

 

We had better order in freakin' Maalox by the case then, if fan stomachs are what's been holding the Bills back from investing enough in QB and giving it time.

 

After carefully reading scouting reports and watching film for myself, there is one (1) QB I see in the draft who is not going to need a couple years of development, and very careful coaching to bring him along.  That would be Rosen.  And even there he is going to have warts, and has some people I overall value who don't think much of him.  "Trent Green".  The unknown question is if his "attitude" will put off enough people that we could grab him.  Bill Polian's generation, yep yep.  Brandon Beane's, not so much.  Who is driving those top picks?  Johnny Manziel didn't put off the Browns.....

 

Jackson, surprisingly, may be second most ready IMO.  While his mechanics need more work, he seems to actually do the most with reading the defense and making progressions.  Jackson already knows where the throwing lanes are - they're his running lanes and he sees them!  and he's already started to see them as throwing lanes. (I give kudos to Petrino there who has by reports deliberately coached that by whistling it dead whenever Jackson would take off in practice.) Mayfield has the double handicap of needing to learn to find and step into throwing lanes vs rolling out, and adjusting to a more pro-style offense, but he just has that "chip on his shoulder".  The two of them could probably play in a year, but with some care to limit what they're asked to do.

After watching film myself and digesting scouting reports, I'm persuaded that Darnold is far more of a project than his draft position portrays, Allen even more so.  They are both extremely talented, high ceiling "boom or bust" prospects who need a couple years to get themselves right mechanically and learn the pro game, and who may never get it at all, nor (in Allen's case) improve their accuracy enough.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

I like Greg Cosell.  It is odd not having Jaws and Hodge on the matchup show, but like how Cosell is n air now.  ESPN keeps firing people.

 

Cosell just loves watching film and it shows.

Edited by Hapless Bills Fan
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If you want the best QB you draft Josh Rosen. Theres really no discussion. Anyone else you are hoping they fix things or they have some intangible that you admire. Get the best QB, don't over think it

Edited by kdiggz
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2 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

If you want the best QB you draft Josh Rosen. Theres really no discussion. Anyone else you are hoping they fix things or they have some intangible that you admire. Get the best QB, don't over think it

 

Rosen himself is not without question marks - mostly regarding his injury history.  He had his first shoulder problem sideline him from sports at age 12 (Tennis)

 

The point is, it isn't just "ask and have".  I would love it if we somehow manage to draft Rosen, but unless we manage to move up (and even #2 might not be enough) or 20 professional NFL GMs and scouting staffs are dumber than you, it's not going to happen.

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3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Rosen himself is not without question marks - mostly regarding his injury history.  He had his first shoulder problem sideline him from sports at age 12 (Tennis)

 

The point is, it isn't just "ask and have".  I would love it if we somehow manage to draft Rosen, but unless we manage to move up (and even #2 might not be enough) or 20 professional NFL GMs and scouting staffs are dumber than you, it's not going to happen.

Any knocks on Rosen has nothing to do with throwing a football. Maybe he will get hurt but so could any of these guys. Maybe he will be a jerk but who cares as long as he is completing passes. If you draft someone else it's because you like them as a person and hope they can overcome something in their game to get to the level that Rosen is already at. It's a no brainer for me

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22 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

If you want the best QB you draft Josh Rosen. Theres really no discussion. Anyone else you are hoping they fix things or they have some intangible that you admire. Get the best QB, don't over think it

I agree Rosen is the best talent...I just don’t think he has the toughness to last...he is a former tennis star after all. :D

 

Therefore, I like Mayfield best... best combo of skill and toughness imo.

Edited by JaCrispy

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14 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

Any knocks on Rosen has nothing to do with throwing a football. Maybe he will get hurt but so could any of these guys. Maybe he will be a jerk but who cares as long as he is completing passes. If you draft someone else it's because you like them as a person and hope they can overcome something in their game to get to the level that Rosen is already at. It's a no brainer for me

 

torah-musings.gif

What part of that "isn't just ask and have" escaped you? 

 

There are 20 teams drafting ahead of us, and no guarantee that #1 wants to trade out at any price, or that Rosen will be available any lower.

 

Also, just like Bradford....any of those guys can blow out a knee, but when a guy has already injured his knee 3x, you got to think it's more likely.

When a guy had a shoulder problem at Age 12 and then shoulder surgery as a college sophomore, you got to think that shoulder problems are a watchout.

Edited by Hapless Bills Fan

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3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

torah-musings.gif

What part of that "isn't just ask and have" escaped you? 

 

There are 20 teams drafting ahead of us, and no guarantee that #1 wants to trade out at any price, or that Rosen will be available any lower.

 

Also, just like Bradford....any of those guys can blow out a knee, but when a guy has already injured his knee 3x, you got to think it's more likely.

When a guy had a shoulder problem at Age 12 and then shoulder surgery as a college sophomore, you got to think that shoulder problems are a watchout.

Cleveland isn't taking him, he said he doesn't want to play there. We have an opportunity to trade up 2-4 to get him. We have 2x 1sts, 2x 2nds and we have Glenn, Tyrod, Shaq on the trading block. More than enough ammo to get your guy

6 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I agree Rosen is the best talent...I just don’t think he has the toughness to last...he is a former tennis star after all. :D

 

Therefore, I like Mayfield best... best combo of skill and toughness imo.

Yep, but like I said you have to talk yourself out of Rosen because this might happen or that might happen. But my argument is take the best QB and hope for the best. More likely to work out than someone who isn't the best QB and you hope he somehow improves

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1 minute ago, kdiggz said:

Cleveland isn't taking him, he said he doesn't want to play there. We have an opportunity to trade up 2-4 to get him. We have 2x 1sts, 2x 2nds and we have Glenn, Tyrod, Shaq on the trading block. More than enough ammo to get your guy

 

Draft ammo only fires if it fits in your partners gun, which is far from a sure thing.

 

It has been reported that Rosen doesn't want to play there, but if true, it's unclear if that's "I would prefer to play elsewhere" or "if drafted by Cleveland, I WILL hold out" a la Elway/Eli Manning.  There is nothing from Rosen or his camp saying that, it's all unsourced rumor, just like the rumor all Rosen's teammates hate his guts and snub his birthday (which has been contradicted by actual teammates)

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7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Draft ammo only fires if it fits in your partners gun, which is far from a sure thing.

 

It has been reported that Rosen doesn't want to play there, but if true, it's unclear if that's "I would prefer to play elsewhere" or "if drafted by Cleveland, I WILL hold out" a la Elway/Eli Manning.  There is nothing from Rosen or his camp saying that, it's all unsourced rumor, just like the rumor all Rosen's teammates hate his guts and snub his birthday (which has been contradicted by actual teammates)

they will have the opportunity to talk to him next week.  if he gives indication he doesn't want to play for Buffalo then I'm sure they will look elsewhere.  but where we stand right now, that is the best QB in the draft and if we can get him then we have to go get him

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1 hour ago, kdiggz said:

Any knocks on Rosen has nothing to do with throwing a football. Maybe he will get hurt but so could any of these guys. Maybe he will be a jerk but who cares as long as he is completing passes. If you draft someone else it's because you like them as a person and hope they can overcome something in their game to get to the level that Rosen is already at. It's a no brainer for me


Hopefully GM has a brain so "no brainer" decisions will be made.  Brainless decisions in future will be referred in future as "kdoggzes".

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2 hours ago, kdiggz said:

Cleveland isn't taking him, he said he doesn't want to play there. We have an opportunity to trade up 2-4 to get him. We have 2x 1sts, 2x 2nds and we have Glenn, Tyrod, Shaq on the trading block. More than enough ammo to get your guy

Yep, but like I said you have to talk yourself out of Rosen because this might happen or that might happen. But my argument is take the best QB and hope for the best. More likely to work out than someone who isn't the best QB and you hope he somehow improves

Good point :thumbsup:

Edited by JaCrispy

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