dollars 2 donuts Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) Guys, I'm just throwing it out there... I never want to over pay for CB, but I know it is extremely beneficial to have multiple good ones. That said is 9 million dollars really that outlandish for Gaines? Anything above 10 million for a quality CB I believe becomes a little bit more questionable and there is no way I would have paid Gilmore what the Patriots are paying him. However, can't we reasonably fit it in and sign Gaines to a 4 year deal and then before you are potentially in line for inking White to a new deal couldn't you possibly trade Gaines or cut him during or after three years? I know we may be dealing with some dead cap money, but in return we get a premier set of starting CBs for the next 38-48 games. One last thing is the idea of building this team and I don't like that we got someone really good and a draft pick for Sammy and really only ended up with a draft pick and a rent-a-player. Edited February 16, 2018 by dollars 2 donuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 It's a business both on the team's side and the player's side. They have to want to be here too. If you do pay him, I'd be expecting many injury clauses. I would hate to sign him and have him watch from the sideline. It's a wait and see right now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I don’t know what Gaines is demanding but I’m really hope both sides can reach a fair deal for both sides. The bills defence was completely different when he was injured and I don’t think it was a fluke. The guy can play and plays a very important role on the defence 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: I don’t know what Gaines is demanding but I’m really hope both sides can reach a fair deal for both sides. The bills defence was completely different when he was injured and I don’t think it was a fluke. The guy can play and plays a very important role on the defence bf, When he first went down (in Atlanta, I believe) I knew that was going to be trouble for us and surely was when we went to Cincy. As WGR mentioned this morning we were 8-3 with him and 1-4 with out him and although I truly don't think that you just plain win or lose games at the CB position that is still a pretty darn impressive stat. Edited February 16, 2018 by dollars 2 donuts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said: bf, When he first went down in (in Atlanta, I believe) I knoew that was going to be trouble for us and was when we went to Cincy. As WGR mentioned this morning we were 8-3 with him and 1-4 with out him and although I truly don't think that you just plain win or lose games at the CB position that is still a pretty darn impressive stat. Agreed 100 percent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: Agreed 100 percent. One more thing and please forgive the "would have, could have, should have", but I honestly believe that if we had a healthy EJ Gaines we maybe pullout that CIncy game. ...maybe we end up 10-6 and maybe we're going back to KC for the playoffs. Edited February 16, 2018 by dollars 2 donuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 27 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said: Guys, I'm just throwing it out there... I never want to over pay for CB, but I know it is extremely beneficial to have multiple good ones. That said is 9 million dollars really that outlandish for Gaines? Anything above 10 million for a quality CB I believe becomes a little bit more questionable and there is no way I would have paid Gilmore what the Patriots are paying him. However, can't we reasonably fit it in and sign Gaines to a 4 year deal and then before you are potentially in line for inking White to a new deal couldn't you possibly trade Gaines or cut him during or after three years? I know we may be dealing with some dead cap money, but in return we get a premier set of starting CBs for the next 38-48 games. One last thing is the idea of building this team and I don't like that we got someone really good and a draft pick for Sammy and really only ended up with a draft pick and a rent-a-player. If you want to keep them together. (i am not sure i do with Gaines never being available). The contract structure is easy. Sign him Or any CB you want to keep long term to a long term deal with the cap hits big in years 1-3. Then when White comes time for his 5th year option or Long term extension the orher CB cap hits are low. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 it was always his hammy right? you gotta think that should be something they can work on this off season. maybe he's over training something? if he's healthy all 16 games he's a darn good cb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, aristocrat said: it was always his hammy right? you gotta think that should be something they can work on this off season. maybe he's over training something? if he's healthy all 16 games he's a darn good cb Yes he is. But the Problem is he just never is. Dating back to rams. It is always something knee hammy groin with us Thigh foot concussion knee with Rams https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/ej-gaines-player-injuries 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 53 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said: Guys, I'm just throwing it out there... I never want to over pay for CB, but I know it is extremely beneficial to have multiple good ones. That said is 9 million dollars really that outlandish for Gaines? Anything above 10 million for a quality CB I believe becomes a little bit more questionable and there is no way I would have paid Gilmore what the Patriots are paying him. However, can't we reasonably fit it in and sign Gaines to a 4 year deal and then before you are potentially in line for inking White to a new deal couldn't you possibly trade Gaines or cut him during or after three years? I know we may be dealing with some dead cap money, but in return we get a premier set of starting CBs for the next 38-48 games. One last thing is the idea of building this team and I don't like that we got someone really good and a draft pick for Sammy and really only ended up with a draft pick and a rent-a-player. I like the thought process. I really like White and Gaines starting side by side. With Gaines' injury history and his fit for our system and culture I look at that $9-$10 million range to be a win/win for us and Gaines. I hope that is where it lands. It would be great! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 9 mil would be my limit, but it would also need to allow us protection from injury. We traded for him, gave him a shot, and helped make him what he is. Between that and his injury history, I’m hoping we can meet in the middle. Because yes, we are a different defense with him on the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, Virgil said: 9 mil would be my limit, but it would also need to allow us protection from injury. We traded for him, gave him a shot, and helped make him what he is. Between that and his injury history, I’m hoping we can meet in the middle. Because yes, we are a different defense with him on the field. Well in his defense he excelled when Healthy with Rams as well. So not sure how much we helped make him what he is. He was always a very good CB that couldnt stay healthy so far in his career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 22 minutes ago, Virgil said: 9 mil would be my limit, but it would also need to allow us protection from injury. We traded for him, gave him a shot, and helped make him what he is. Between that and his injury history, I’m hoping we can meet in the middle. Because yes, we are a different defense with him on the field. and how do you do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 If he walks, I think he likely falls into the 3rd round range for a comp pick? Could be 4/5 though. Not sure where Matthews falls, and/or Preston brown. We'll need to sign some replacements for sure. Hopefully some of the fringe guys factor in like Leonard Johnson, Shareece Wright, or maybe Humber. I never really know who counts or why though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I agree that Gaines is very good. I also agree that you have to be preparing for injury just to cover your tracks. Definitely worth money. Just availability could be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Buffalo30 said: It's a business both on the team's side and the player's side. They have to want to be here too. If you do pay him, I'd be expecting many injury clauses. I would hate to sign him and have him watch from the sideline. It's a wait and see right now. That only works if other teams are also requiring the same. Which implies you'd have to wait until after March 16th to sign him assuming he then finds out every other team in the league is requiring the same of him. The problem with that is I'm sure some team or teams will make offers without any injury provisions. I'd be shocked if he'd agree to something like that prior to the start of FA period, unless he truely wants to re-sign in Buffalo and no place else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I think you could attempt to front load the deal a bit so that you don't have to two high costs corners at the same time. I am curious about his market and I think a transition tag could make some sense, giving us the right to match offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 2 hours ago, MAJBobby said: If you want to keep them together. (i am not sure i do with Gaines never being available). The contract structure is easy. Sign him Or any CB you want to keep long term to a long term deal with the cap hits big in years 1-3. Then when White comes time for his 5th year option or Long term extension the orher CB cap hits are low. With a 4-year deal, Gaines will be gone when Tre's would kick in, and they'd probably draft a couple over that period anyway. I think their dilemma is how they will get their QB? If they go for Cousins, they they have to fill their holes via the draft; if they move up to draft someone, then they will need to fill holes in FA. I think they'll go the latter route. They'll probably have a little over $30 million to play with. They should structure the bigger deals to reduce the hit this year (leaving more cash available for players this year), loading up in year 2 when they get the dead cap relief (over $20 mil). For example, say they could get Gaines with a 4-year $32 mill deal, which includes a $12 mil signing bonus. They could structure like so: ($3 + $3), ($3 + $7), ($3 + $5), and the same in year 4. I'd do something like this with their top 3 FAs. Just an example, but I think that dead cap space gives them some flexibility to add more players this year and smooth out the cap hit in the years after 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 2 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Well in his defense he excelled when Healthy with Rams as well. So not sure how much we helped make him what he is. He was always a very good CB that couldnt stay healthy so far in his career Because of that injury history, he was listed as 3rd/4th on their depth chart. 2 hours ago, nucci said: and how do you do that? More up front money or team options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Zone CBs are never going to command the price that someone who is man to man will. And even if Davis is slowing down to the point of being more of a press guy, he's not going to want to take the pay cut. He'll test the market and try to get someone to pay him. I don't see Buffalo spending 9M per on a UFA CB largely because they've got so many needs elsewhere. I can see them looking for someone much lower priced and using their cap room to improve the front 7. Gaines isn't coming back, given the price he's looking for and it wouldn't surprise me if there's been no discussion between his agent and OBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthomas Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I've said it before & i'll say it again. For this system a CB like Gaines can easily be replaced. If the contract would be 4-5 mil a year, im all in, but I surely wouldnt want to see the Bills invest 9 mil a year on a player who historically misses 5-6 games a season. I see us replacing him via free agency while drafting another cb in the middle of the draft. We have too many other needs & issues to resolve than overpaying for an oft injured system cornerback 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: That only works if other teams are also requiring the same. Which implies you'd have to wait until after March 16th to sign him assuming he then finds out every other team in the league is requiring the same of him. The problem with that is I'm sure some team or teams will make offers without any injury provisions. I'd be shocked if he'd agree to something like that prior to the start of FA period, unless he truely wants to re-sign in Buffalo and no place else. He definitely wants to see what his value is on the market. Why would he sign with us without getting a feel from everyone else in the league when he's only been here 1 year? Personally, I wouldn't sign him to a 8-9 million dollar deal without an opt-out clause or some kind of injury clause. It's a business. You have to take some risks and have some certainties to bank on as well IMO. We will see what they do with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodneykm Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I'd rather spend a couple million per year extra on someone I know fits our system, than try and go cheap and hope we hit gold. Resign Gaines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 You pay the man what he is worth - if not someone else will. Money itself is not the issue here. While the Bills currently have about $30 mill in 2018 cap space, they are said to have close to $100 mill in cap space projected for 2019. And this is all before any other personnel moves are made. (like releasing TT or Glenn for example) I am not taking any side in this - just stating the obvious. Injuries are a part of the game. Get over it. The question for McBean is what value do they place on Gaines services and if they don't like his price tag who will they get to replace him and how much will that player cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 5 hours ago, MAJBobby said: If you want to keep them together. (i am not sure i do with Gaines never being available). The contract structure is easy. Sign him Or any CB you want to keep long term to a long term deal with the cap hits big in years 1-3. Then when White comes time for his 5th year option or Long term extension the orher CB cap hits are low. Exactly right about structuring the deal. I would expect the bills pro scouts are working with Beane and McDermott on who is available that would fit the scheme and most likely cost less. If i was the Bills i would keep things cordial but let Gaines test the waters. See how the league views his injuries and the fact that he was surrounded by 3 other players that had great seasons. The injuries are not just something that occurred just this season. I think a strong base salary of $7 mil + time played and wins incentives could be good landing spot for everyone. If Gaines stayed healthy and the Bills won 11 games and had a dominant defense, i think the Bills would gladly pay him 10 million a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Someone should set up a poll. If you could have Gains or Avante Davis for the same $9m/yr, who would you rather? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenboy81 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 34 minutes ago, BuffaloFan68 said: Someone should set up a poll. If you could have Gains or Avante Davis for the same $9m/yr, who would you rather? I hope somehow they can sign both.. But im a dreamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 Honestly, I just can't imagine this team not only have two rock solid starting CBs like White and Gaines, but also having them play together for 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakin Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 20 hours ago, brianthomas said: I've said it before & i'll say it again. For this system a CB like Gaines can easily be replaced. If the contract would be 4-5 mil a year, im all in, but I surely wouldnt want to see the Bills invest 9 mil a year on a player who historically misses 5-6 games a season. I see us replacing him via free agency while drafting another cb in the middle of the draft. We have too many other needs & issues to resolve than overpaying for an oft injured system cornerback I don’t get why everyone wants to pay Gaines big bucks. He is a good player but my god all those injuries. I would sign him for 2 @ 15 and that’s it. Make it through those 2 years and I’ll sign ya again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 17 minutes ago, Bakin said: I don’t get why everyone wants to pay Gaines big bucks. He is a good player but my god all those injuries. I would sign him for 2 @ 15 and that’s it. Make it through those 2 years and I’ll sign ya again. I agree with you, but my guess is he walks if we offered something like this. Gaines, like pretty much every other player, is looking for a high dollar contract over many years and as much guaranteed as possible. If we don't pay him, I think another team will; but Gaines is a gamble given his injury history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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