McCoy for Foles.

[Kirby Jackson]

Is Nick Foles good? I keep going back and forth with it. He has a phenomenal year, one of the great playoff runs ever and has largely sucked other than that. So who is he? It’s a little “Flacco-ish” to me. After his Super Bowl win people were all about Flacco. Now he’s a below-average QB with a crippling contract. Is Foles the guy that he’s normally been or is he the guy that we are watching now? I know this, I would rather pass on paying him $100M to find out.

 

Go get a young guy instead. 

[SWATeam]

This sounds like something Buffalo Barbarian would dream up.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Is Nick Foles good? I keep going back and forth with it. He has a phenomenal year, one of the great playoff runs ever and has largely sucked other than that. So who is he? It’s a little “Flacco-ish” to me. After his Super Bowl win people were all about Flacco. Now he’s a below-average QB with a crippling contract. Is Foles the guy that he’s normally been or is he the guy that we are watching now? I know this, I would rather pass on paying him $100M to find out.

 

Go get a young guy instead. 

 

This is the way to go IMO and it provides a cost control element that allows for building up the team in a five year window. 

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, Tipster19 said:

While I learned to love Shady it stands to reason that he is our biggest bargaining chip. Before everybody starts puking our responses just stop and think, the guy is 30 year’s old and he’s not going to single handedly bring us to the Super Bowl. Successful franchises move on and retain value for their aging gridiron stars (New England, Philadelphia under Andy Reid regime, etc etc). 

 

Under this his philosophy and speaking of Philadelphia, I believe they are our best outlet to for a starting QB. This would not only allow us to solidify the QB position but also let us retain our best resources (early draft picks) to strengthen the rest of our roster. What I would like to see is for the Bills to trade McCoy and our 2019 6th rd draft pick for Foles, RB Corey Clement and their 2019 4th rd pick. This would enable the Bills to use their 2018 top draft picks on defense, possible C if still needed and I would also like to see them draft UGA RB Sony Michel with their 2nd rd pick. In FA I’d also like for the Bills acquire soon to be released RB DeMarco Murray to a team friendly contract. 

 

Why would Philly trade their current starting QB?

[Jamie Muellers Ghost]

No thanks, but I do get a growing feeling that Shady might not be here next season.

[Acantha]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Is Nick Foles good? I keep going back and forth with it. He has a phenomenal year, one of the great playoff runs ever and has largely sucked other than that. So who is he? It’s a little “Flacco-ish” to me. After his Super Bowl win people were all about Flacco. Now he’s a below-average QB with a crippling contract. Is Foles the guy that he’s normally been or is he the guy that we are watching now? I know this, I would rather pass on paying him $100M to find out.

 

Go get a young guy instead. 

I've been pretty adamant about doing whatever it takes to get one of the top rookies, and it's still my preference by a long shot, but I wouldn't be too upset with Foles for a 2nd (and maybe a player).  Foles is a gamble, but so are the young guys.  At least he has shown he's not a complete bust.  And Foles + the rest of those early picks is a pretty decent position to be in.

[The_Dude]

I’d pull the trigger in a heartbeat on that deal. A 30 year old back for a super bowl mvp QB...YES. 

Some of you need to quit looking at Foles like chopped liver. Brady couldn’t muster more than 9 wins under Jeff Fisher. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Is Nick Foles good? I keep going back and forth with it. He has a phenomenal year, one of the great playoff runs ever and has largely sucked other than that. So who is he? It’s a little “Flacco-ish” to me. After his Super Bowl win people were all about Flacco. Now he’s a below-average QB with a crippling contract. Is Foles the guy that he’s normally been or is he the guy that we are watching now? I know this, I would rather pass on paying him $100M to find out.

 

Go get a young guy instead. 

Foles is what can happen when you design an offense to your QB's strengths and put good weapons around him and a good OL in front of him.

[Mr. WEO]

You mean the "good" Foles, I assume.

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, Acantha said:

I've been pretty adamant about doing whatever it takes to get one of the top rookies, and it's still my preference by a long shot, but I wouldn't be too upset with Foles for a 2nd (and maybe a player).  Foles is a gamble, but so are the young guys.  At least he has shown he's not a complete bust.  And Foles + the rest of those early picks is a pretty decent position to be in.

I wouldn’t mind Foles for a 2nd (at all). My issue is that Foles is either getting $100M plus or he failed. The only way that it works is if he is the guy that we saw in the playoffs, an elite NFL QB. You can’t guarantee $50M+ to decent QBs. It kills you. You’d have a year to see if he is elite. If he is solid you are in QB purgatory with an elite QB price tag. I’m passing.

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Foles is what can happen when you design an offense to your QB's strengths and put good weapons around him and a good OL in front of him.

No doubt (and he has played with the best offensive coaches in the league). They run a zillion RPOs. 

[Wsam4031]

3 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

I’d pull the trigger in a heartbeat on that deal. A 30 year old back for a super bowl mvp QB...YES. 

Some of you need to quit looking at Foles like chopped liver. Brady couldn’t muster more than 9 wins under Jeff Fisher. 

He could also muster 0 starts under andy Reid with a very average Alex SMith in front of him. Smith until this year was a very average qb

[Fadingpain]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I'm for this.

Shady and Blount is a great 1-2 punch.

Yeah build a ground game in the greatest passing era the game has ever seen!

 

Superbowl LII just had 1,151 combined total yards of offense, and you want to pound the rock. 

 

 That's the Bills way!  Always bringing a really big, sharp knife to a gun fight!

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by Fadingpain

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Tipster19 said:

While I learned to love Shady it stands to reason that he is our biggest bargaining chip. Before everybody starts puking our responses just stop and think, the guy is 30 year’s old and he’s not going to single handedly bring us to the Super Bowl. Successful franchises move on and retain value for their aging gridiron stars (New England, Philadelphia under Andy Reid regime, etc etc). 

 

Under this his philosophy and speaking of Philadelphia, I believe they are our best outlet to for a starting QB. This would not only allow us to solidify the QB position but also let us retain our best resources (early draft picks) to strengthen the rest of our roster. What I would like to see is for the Bills to trade McCoy and our 2019 6th rd draft pick for Foles, RB Corey Clement and their 2019 4th rd pick. This would enable the Bills to use their 2018 top draft picks on defense, possible C if still needed and I would also like to see them draft UGA RB Sony Michel with their 2nd rd pick. In FA I’d also like for the Bills acquire soon to be released RB DeMarco Murray to a team friendly contract. 

 

I dont understand why the Eagles would want or need McCoy.  They are strong at RB and just brought in their main guy of Ajayi.  The interest in McCoy was prior to that trade.

 

Foles has substantially more value to the Eagles than McCoy would because Wentz is no lock to be ready by beginning of season, not to mention if he hits any setbacks along the way.  They ave RB's, but no one to play QB if Wentz isnt ready or suffers set backs.

[Ga boy]

I agree that Philly is not interested in McCoy, but I do agree with the reasoning that he should be part of a trade to get a QB in the draft.  McCoy will not be around in 2-3 anyway when we have a team ready to win big.

[Acantha]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I wouldn’t mind Foles for a 2nd (at all). My issue is that Foles is either getting $100M plus or he failed. The only way that it works is if he is the guy that we saw in the playoffs, an elite NFL QB. You can’t guarantee $50M+ to decent QBs. It kills you. You’d have a year to see if he is elite. If he is solid you are in QB purgatory with an elite QB price tag. I’m passing.

You don't think they could structure a contract to give themselves a little protection?  Give him a nice raise in year 1, with one of these big contracts with all the guarantees kicking in at year 2, with an escape clause built in after the 1st year?  Would be the same as him hitting FA next season, except he gets a raise in the meantime.

 

I agree, doing what Washington did wouldn't be a great idea with Foles given the risk.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Acantha

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, Tipster19 said:

While I learned to love Shady it stands to reason that he is our biggest bargaining chip. Before everybody starts puking our responses just stop and think, the guy is 30 year’s old and he’s not going to single handedly bring us to the Super Bowl. Successful franchises move on and retain value for their aging gridiron stars (New England, Philadelphia under Andy Reid regime, etc etc). 

 

Under this his philosophy and speaking of Philadelphia, I believe they are our best outlet to for a starting QB. This would not only allow us to solidify the QB position but also let us retain our best resources (early draft picks) to strengthen the rest of our roster. What I would like to see is for the Bills to trade McCoy and our 2019 6th rd draft pick for Foles, RB Corey Clement and their 2019 4th rd pick. This would enable the Bills to use their 2018 top draft picks on defense, possible C if still needed and I would also like to see them draft UGA RB Sony Michel with their 2nd rd pick. In FA I’d also like for the Bills acquire soon to be released RB DeMarco Murray to a team friendly contract. 

Literally every single part of this is a no for me. Even where players I like are involved, you want to bring in Clement and spend a 2ns on Michel...to play being a 30 year old plodder in decline.

[KDIGGZ]

Foles isn't going anywhere unless someone gives up a 1st round pick and then some. Wentz tore his ACL and lcl, there's no guarantee he will be ready for week 1. I think it would take both of our 1sts to pry him loose. No thanks

[The_Dude]

7 minutes ago, Wsam4031 said:

He could also muster 0 starts under andy Reid with a very average Alex SMith in front of him. Smith until this year was a very average qb

 

That literally means NOTHING to me. 

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Yeah build a ground game in the greatest passing era the game has ever seen!

 

Superbowl LII just had 1,151 combined total yards of offense, and you want to pound the rock. 

 

 That's the Bills way!  Always bringing a really big, sharp knife to a gun fight!

 

 

First, there is no way Philly would trade Foles for Shady.

Second, I never said anything about the Bills being a run only offense.

 

My comment was having Shady as our prime running back with a change of pace guy like Blount would be OK with me.

He can be signed for a one year contract for 1.5 million, I think it's a lot better than Tolbert.

[26CornerBlitz]

18 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Peter KIng weighs in on the availability of Foles:

 

9. I don’t think Philly trades quarterback Nick Foles, unless some team makes an offer that start with two first-round picks. Even then, I’m skeptical they’d pull the trigger. This is why they got Foles in the first place—because GM Howie Roseman and Pederson think the backup quarterback is one of the 10 or 12 most important players on the team.

 

6 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Nick Foles doesn’t sound like he’ll push for a chance to compete for the Eagles’ starting job, push to get traded, or push for much of anything in 2018.

 

Instead, the reigning Super Bowl Most Valuable Player says he’ll let everything sort itself out and he’ll be content with whatever happens.

 

Don't be so sure that Foles will be available. 

[BreezeMafia]

1 hour ago, Tipster19 said:

While I learned to love Shady it stands to reason that he is our biggest bargaining chip. Before everybody starts puking our responses just stop and think, the guy is 30 year’s old and he’s not going to single handedly bring us to the Super Bowl. Successful franchises move on and retain value for their aging gridiron stars (New England, Philadelphia under Andy Reid regime, etc etc). 

 

Under this his philosophy and speaking of Philadelphia, I believe they are our best outlet to for a starting QB. This would not only allow us to solidify the QB position but also let us retain our best resources (early draft picks) to strengthen the rest of our roster. What I would like to see is for the Bills to trade McCoy and our 2019 6th rd draft pick for Foles, RB Corey Clement and their 2019 4th rd pick. This would enable the Bills to use their 2018 top draft picks on defense, possible C if still needed and I would also like to see them draft UGA RB Sony Michel with their 2nd rd pick. In FA I’d also like for the Bills acquire soon to be released RB DeMarco Murray to a team friendly contract. 

While the Eagles do have Cap problems, I honestly don't see them moving Foles.  There are other players whom are better targets to be removed from the roster, starting with Jason Peters.  I am a Bills fan living here in Philly, the parade was amazing.  Before any move is made, lets please make sure Foles is not Mark Rypien <See Super Bowl 26> and is part of the deal that is affordable in both directions.

[RussellDopeland]

In this mode of thinking, I suppose the Bills, after the SuperBowl XXV loss, should have traded Thurman Thomas to the Giants for Jeff Hostetler (a backup QB who had just won the big game). Maybe they'd have been better off trading Kelly at that point, using Hostetler as a bridge QB, and drafting a future QB in that year's draft (the '91 draft which featured such 1st round luminaries as Dan McGwire and Todd Marinovich).  I can't believe the Bills' brain trust (Polian, Levy) never thought of such a brilliant scheme!

[Direhard Fan]

NOPE + 1

[Kirby Jackson]

13 minutes ago, Acantha said:

You don't think they could structure a contract to give themselves a little protection?  Give him a nice raise in year 1, with one of these big contracts with all the guarantees kicking in at year 2, with an escape clause built in after the 1st year?  Would be the same as him hitting FA next season, except he gets a raise in the meantime.

 

I agree, doing what Washington did wouldn't be a great idea with Foles given the risk.

You could but if he isn’t worth $100M in today’s climate where are you? He’s either earned it by being elite, got paid it because he’s okay and that’s what okay QBs get it he wasn’t worth it at all and you are looking for a new QB. 

[26CornerBlitz]

10 minutes ago, BillsinChesterSprings said:

While the Eagles do have Cap problems, I honestly don't see them moving Foles.  There are other players whom are better targets to be removed from the roster, starting with Jason Peters.  I am a Bills fan living here in Philly, the parade was amazing.  Before any move is made, lets please make sure Foles is not Mark Rypien <See Super Bowl 26> and is part of the deal that is affordable in both directions.

 

It was all downhill for him after that Super Bowl.  It was the Washington system under Gibbs in combination with outstanding personnel that made him look so good.  Good comparison to make. 

[HappyDays]

38 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Is Nick Foles good? I keep going back and forth with it. He has a phenomenal year, one of the great playoff runs ever and has largely sucked other than that. So who is he? It’s a little “Flacco-ish” to me. After his Super Bowl win people were all about Flacco. Now he’s a below-average QB with a crippling contract. Is Foles the guy that he’s normally been or is he the guy that we are watching now? I know this, I would rather pass on paying him $100M to find out.

 

Go get a young guy instead. 

 

Flacco is an interesting comparison but I think Foles was actually better in his postseason run. It's fair to question whether he'll ever play that well again but he also had that one great season a few years ago. He's had a very weird career. He can make all the throws. I haven't watched him enough before this year to know what his problems were but maybe he's fixed them. Flacco NEVER looked as impressive as Foles did in the Super Bowl IMO.

[Mr. WEO]

21 minutes ago, Wsam4031 said:

He could also muster 0 starts under andy Reid with a very average Alex SMith in front of him. Smith until this year was a very average qb

 

Now he wasn't.  His career numbers in KC (win %, completion%, int%, QBR) are much better than average.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Flacco is an interesting comparison but I think Foles was actually better in his postseason run. It's fair to question whether he'll ever play that well again but he also had that one great season a few years ago. He's had a very weird career. He can make all the throws. I haven't watched him enough before this year to know what his problems were but maybe he's fixed them. Flacco NEVER looked as impressive as Foles did in the Super Bowl IMO.

While I agree we have to factor in how much is it because we are “prisoner’s of the moment?” After that Super Bowl people thought Flacco was the next big thing.

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Now he wasn't.  His career numbers in KC (win %, completion%, int%, QBR) are much better than average.

If Smith had his numbers in '15 and '16 in Buffalo instead of KC he would be in the middle of being run out of town right now.

[JohnC]

57 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 

Thanks!  And you just reminded me of one of my favorite KISS songs ... Adroit Rock City.

I take it back. Anyone who admits to be a Kiss fan is not astute, perspicacious and adroit! You are a diminished man in my eyes. 

[BobDVA]

negative big ben

 

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

If Smith had his numbers in '15 and '16 in Buffalo instead of KC he would be in the middle of being run out of town right now.

 

Not with his record those years

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Why are you such a Sesquipedalian as of late?   

To be transparent I had to go to the dictionary. I am speechless. I am plagued with verbosity. Trust me it has often gotten me in trouble. 

[GunnerBill]

No, no, no, no and just in case it wasn't clear.... No. 

 

Terrible idea. People need to stop suggesting we give things up for Nick Foles.  

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

Not with his record those years

He wouldn't have their Defense or ST's to carry him to victories here. It's actually kind of scary how similar their numbers are in '15 & '16. Smith had a great year last year though.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

No, no, no, no and just in case it wasn't clear.... No. 

 

Terrible idea. People need to stop suggesting we give things up for Nick Foles.  

 

You and I know it will continue.  The latest and greatest hot player in mind draws the most attention without regard to an entire body of work. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

No, no, no, no and just in case it wasn't clear.... No. 

 

Terrible idea. People need to stop suggesting we give things up for Nick Foles.  

It's not a terrible idea to get a qb who can run a pro offense. The upside to such a trade is that you would keep your high picks to add talent to the roster. No one is suggesting that he is an elite qb because it is evident that he is not. But having a qb who can run a pro offense and is an average or better passer would be a dramatic upgrade from what we currently have. 

 

For those who argue that we need to use a high pick for an upscale prospect my response is getting Foles in a McCoy trade doesn't preclude you from doing that, if that is what you want to do. The era of a pop warner offense needs to end. Getting a credible qb who can make plays is not something to lament, it is something to celebrate. 

[Wsam4031]

16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Now he wasn't.  His career numbers in KC (win %, completion%, int%, QBR) are much better than average.

if he was on Buffalo for the past 5 years he would've been run out of town the same way Tyrod is. Hes average and afraid to throw the ball downfield (until this year) Tyrod had very close stats as far as Completion % Int % and qbr. He was laking the wins but I think you trade smith for tyrod and tyrod wins as many as Smith did for KC. They are both avg QB's that drive fans and coaches nuts with their refusal to throw anything over 10 yards

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It's not a terrible idea to get a qb who can run a pro offense. The upside to such a trade is that you would keep your high picks to add talent to the roster. No one is suggesting that he is an elite qb because it is evident that he is not. But having a qb who can run a pro offense and is an average or better passer would be a dramatic upgrade from what we currently have. 

 

For those who argue that we need to use a high pick for an upscale prospect my response is getting Foles in a McCoy trade doesn't preclude you from doing that, if that is what you want to do. The era of a pop warner offense needs to end. Getting a credible qb who can make plays is not something to lament, it is something to celebrate. 

So you would trade your best player for a guy that we don’t know is good. Then we would turn around an package multiple 1sts to get a guy that plays the same position?!?

 

John, that’s a ridiculous idea. Identify your QB and get him. It isn’t complicated. You have way too many holes. 

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You and I know it will continue.  The latest and greatest hot player in mind draws the most attention without regard to an entire body of work. 

You are distorting what has been said in this discussion. He is not an elite player. Few people are making that claim. However, he is a qb who is capable of running a pro offense. He is a decent passer who can make all the throws. Being a capable qb is a dramatic upgrade from what we currently have. You may not find that satisfying but I do. Getting better at the qb position is better than the wretched status quo.