McCoy for Foles.

[BringBackOrton]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Alex Smith got $71M guaranteed. That’s the same ballpark and will get closer if Foles plays well (which would make him more deserving). FWIW, if he gets 4 years $60M guaranteed and is there 2-3 years it is $100M. The guaranteed money only matters when you get out of the deal. The guaranteed money combined with the actual earnings while he is there is the number. The guaranteed is the minimum and the total is the maximum. The actual falls somewhere in between. 

I'm sorry, I think he'll get closer to $40M.

[Kirby Jackson]

7 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

I'm sorry, I think he'll get closer to $40M.

Then we disagree 

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Then we disagree 

You're overestimating the QB market. Foles isn't a franchise QB in the eyes of most NFL GM's.

[Kirby Jackson]

27 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

You're overestimating the QB market. Foles isn't a franchise QB in the eyes of most NFL GM's.

The market has moved and isn’t slowing down. It will depend on how he plays this year for sure but that’s the market. Garropolo got $74M guaranteed and they basically have an out after year 2. They will pay about $62M over the 1st 2 years. We will see I guess but that’s the new norm.

[BringBackOrton]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The market has moved and isn’t slowing down. It will depend on how he plays this year for sure but that’s the market. Garropolo got $74M guaranteed and they basically have an out after year 2. They will pay about $62M over the 1st 2 years. We will see I guess but that’s the new norm.

Garrapolo isn't Foles.  It's not apples to apples.

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Wsam4031 said:

I cant argue with you this year but if you think that Alex Smith, before this year, was anything more than an average qb your standards are low. Im over settling for mediocrity I want our next Kelly, Elway, Montana, Brees and I don't think we should stop until we find that guy. I don't think Foles, smith, keenum, or Bradford are anything more than average QB's at best. Im done with those type of players at the qb position. Give me average DT or CB's instead of drafting them high and do what you need to in order to get a legit franchise qb

 

 

What are you talking about?  Kelly, Elway, Montana, Brees aren't walking through OBD's door.   Where is your "legit franchise QB" right now?

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Do you want to know what is worse than this retread nonsense? Having Tyrod Taylor as your starting qb next year. Are you going to keep boosting him when he is let go? Did you not watch the playoff game in which we scored three points? 

 

You and others are distorting the issue. If I could get Foles for a one year or two year deal I would not be adverse to it. If after one year he departs then so what? You still have the ability to take your high end prospect this year and you have given him an opportunity to be acclimated. That's what basically happened in the Goff situation. In his first year he mostly sat until he played at the end of the season. It's obvious that he wasn't ready his rookie year so grooming a young qb is a better approach then throwing him into the fire when he isn't ready. 

 

What you can't accept is that the Tyrod era is over with. It has run its course. If you can't accept that obvious reality then it is your problem. Giving up a 30 yr back who can still play but is diminishing for a starting qb would be an advantageous deal for us. Even if the qb plays for a short term it still would be beneficial because you would then have an opportunity to run a pro offense instead of a pop warner offense. 

 

 

 

Once again, you prove my point.  You are incapable of any rationale because the ONLY thing that matters to you is that ANYONE other than Tyrod is the QB.  This is NOT in anyway about Tyrod, but you just cant let it go.  

 

We NEED to find a LONG term QB solution, not a retread one year just to appease your over exaggerated hate for Tyrod.  First of all, TT is NOT nearly as bad as you ridiculously exaggerate.  Is he the LONG term answer...nope.  Do we need to find a franchise QB...yup.  

 

But your blind ranting hate for TT is now suggesting we GIVE AWAY assets for a 1 year vet just so you can have peace of mind that the 1 year vet is not TT.  That is so ridiculous, I cant even fathom how any fan can logically come to this conclusion.  

 

Now if you want to trade McCoy for Foles because you BELIEVE Foles is the longterm franchise QB Buffalo needs (which Foles is not IMO), I wouldnt have an issue with you wanting to find a way to acquire him based on that belief.  But you are literally advocating sending valuable assets, whether its McCoy or draft picks, to get what you seem to see as a stop gap Veteran who wont be here in a year after drafting a rookie to be the future.  Thats such a waste of assets since there are already veteran QB's we can sign in FA without having to part with our best offensive weapon or draft picks we need to keep BUILDING this team.  

 

Either sign Cousins or DRAFT the a potential franchise QB.  Under NO circumstances should the Bills give a single asset for Foles UNLESS they plan on him being the Franchise guy they want to build around and not draft a QB.  Which in that case, its a huge gamble where the resume is very underwhelming.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Garrapolo isn't Foles.  It's not apples to apples.

No, but his contract is a lot higher than Foles. He also only has a handful of starts to Foles’ Super Bowl win. The market will keep moving and Foles has a year left. We will see...

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

No, but his contract is a lot higher than Foles. He also only has a handful of starts to Foles’ Super Bowl win. The market will keep moving and Foles has a year left. We will see...

Garropolo hasn't played and failed like Foles has.  He got paid like an up-and-coming franchise QB does.  The Derek Carr/Jimmy G market is a lot different from the "effective vet" market.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, jmc12290 said:

Foles won't get $100M like Flacco.  Veeeeeery different situations.

He came in as relief and you count his low yard totals against him?  For shame.

 

Also, he never passed for 3k yards but he passed for 27 TD's once.

 

LMAO...key word "once" in a 6 year career.  Trivia time, how did he follow up his one good season in 2013?  Oh yeah, sucking for the same team followed by them getting rid of him for a QB made of glass, where he then continued to suck for 2 more years before they also gave up on him.

 

CJ Spiller once had a 2000 total yard season too the year before Foles lone good year.  By your logic, guess we should sign him to replace McCoy as the lead back and Super Bowl here we come behind Mr 2012 at RB and Mr 2013 Nick Foles at QB.  While we are at it, lets add 1 hit stud Peyton Hillis as our bruiser, I mean his one year got him the Madden Cover.  Then we can go get Mr 2015 at TE Gary Barnridge and the king of capitalizing on a SB MVP fluke Larry Brown to play opposite of Tre.

 

Lets see how many 1 hit wonders we can land and lets keep giving up assets to get them.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

LMAO...key word "once" in a 6 year career.  Trivia time, how did he follow up his one good season in 2013?  Oh yeah, sucking for the same team followed by them getting rid of him for a QB made of glass, where he then continued to suck for 2 more years before they also gave up on him.

 

CJ Spiller once had a 2000 total yard season too the year before Foles lone good year.  By your logic, guess we should sign him to replace McCoy as the lead back and Super Bowl here we come behind Mr 2012 at RB and Mr 2013 at QB.  While we are at it, lets add 1 hit stud Peyton Hillis as our bruiser, I mean his one year got him the Madden Cover.  Then we can go get Mr 2015 at TE Gary Barnridge and the king of capitalizing on a SB MVP fluke Larry Brown to play opposite of Tre.

 

Lets see how many 1 hit wonders we can land and lets keep giving up assets to get them.

Did Spiller just win Super Bowl MVP?

 

Maybe you need to borrow my logic because you lost your own long ago.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Did Spiller just win Super Bowl MVP?

 

Maybe you need to borrow my logic because you lost your own long ago.

 

Larry Brown was MVP of the Super Bowl after being the weak link.  What happened?  Raiders gave him a big contract and cut him less a year later...because the BODY OF WORK over his career PROVED to be who he was, not the FLUKE 2 games he played well.

 

LMAO, I love how you value 2 games over a 6 year resume...For someone who whines constantly about needing a better QB, you are literally advocating for a 6 year vet with a terrible resume outside of 2 games and 1 season that was 4 years ago.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Garropolo hasn't played and failed like Foles has.  He got paid like an up-and-coming franchise QB does.  The Derek Carr/Jimmy G market is a lot different from the "effective vet" market.

I agree, but “greatest playoffs ever and Super Bowl Champion” moves you out of the effective vet market. A lot will depend on how he plays this year. Sam Bradford got 2 year $36M. Foles wouldn’t answer the phone for that deal at this point. If he was to sign now, I’d say 5 years, $100M, $60M guaranteed. Most of the guaranteed money within the first 2 years (maybe $50M). That gives the team an out after 2 years.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Roseman has done a masterful job putting the Eagles roster togther. It's rather obvious that he knows what he's doing.  

 

 

Roseman is the anti-Buddy Nix.....aggressive and QB-centric....no slow builds and no begging for more time to produce the baby.

Edited February 15, 2018 by BADOLBILZ

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Larry Brown was MVP of the Super Bowl after being the weak link.  What happened?  Raiders gave him a big contract and cut him less a year later...because the BODY OF WORK over his career PROVED to be who he was, not the FLUKE 2 games he played well.

Going back to 1995 to get a single example of why not to acquire Foles.  LOL.

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

Going back to 1995 to get a single example of why not to acquire Foles.  LOL.

 

LMAO...I gave tons of reasons why not, but you dont read.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

LMAO...I gave tons of reasons why not, but you dont read.

Yes yes, "he's CJ Spiller!" was a compelling argument, to say the least.

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I agree, but “greatest playoffs ever and Super Bowl Champion” moves you out of the effective vet market. A lot will depend on how he plays this year. Sam Bradford got 2 year $36M. Foles wouldn’t answer the phone for that deal at this point. If he was to sign now, I’d say 5 years, $100M, $60M guaranteed. Most of the guaranteed money within the first 2 years (maybe $50M). That gives the team an out after 2 years.

 

I cant see any team offering a 2 time failed starting QB with one good season 4 years ago a deal like that, let alone see Foles turn it down.  No one is going to offer him that $100m contract, and he would be lucky to get the deal Bradford got if he was even available.  Bradford still had people who believed in him as a franchise QB and he was an injury risk more than anything.  Foles failed with two teams and followed up his lone PARTIAL good season with 3 bad ones as the starter.  

 

This is the deepest offseason in a long time between FA and the Draft for QB's, and no one is going to mortgage the farm on a journeyman QB who got hot 2 games.  Not saying teams wouldnt give him a shot, but they are not going to pay big for a guy with such a rocky resume.  If anything they would offer him a 2 year prove it deal at most.  

2 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Yes yes, "he's CJ Spiller!" was a compelling argument, to say the least.

 

Thanks for proving your lack of reading comprehension.  

Edited February 15, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I cant see any team offering a 2 time failed starting QB with one good season 4 years ago a deal like that, let also see Foles turn it down.  No one is going to offer him that contract, and he would be lucky to get the deal Bradford got if he was even available.  Bradford still had people who believed in him as a franchise QB and he was an injury risk more than anything.  Foles failed with two teams and followed up his lone PARTIAL good season with 3 bad ones as the starter.  

 

This is the deepest offseason in a long time between FA and the Draft for QB's, and no one is going to mortgage the farm on a journeyman QB who got hot 2 games.  Not saying teams wouldnt give him a shot, but they are not going to pay big for a guy with such a rocky resume.  If anything they would offer him a 2 year prove it deal at most.  

He’s a FA next year. Any big deal will come from a trade and a season played. That’s been the point. If he plays well (or even pretty good) he’s getting a big deal. If he sucks, you gave up a good asset for a guy that played as a bridge guy for a year. 

[Maynard]

Why is everyone going gaga over Foles? I just don’t see it. Guy is down and up like hot garbage. Give me Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield at any cost......

[Doc]

Foles faced the #1 and #4 scoring defenses, one on the road and the other in by far the biggest game of his career, and averaged almost 40 PPG against them.  This after the Eagles went to the RPO (so it's not like there was no reason he got hot).  I'd take the chance and trade for him before I'd trade multiple first rounders for an unproven QB, especially a guy like Darnold who I think will bust and Rosen who had durability issues in college. 

 

As for the contract, at worst you make him play out the final year and then franchise him if he proves to be worth it. 

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Once again, you prove my point.  You are incapable of any rationale because the ONLY thing that matters to you is that ANYONE other than Tyrod is the QB.  This is NOT in ANYWAY about Tyrod, but you just cant let it go.

 

We NEED to find a LONG term QB solution, not a retread one year just to appease your over exaggerated hate for Tyrod.  First of all, TT is NOT nearly as bad as you ridiculously exaggerate.  Is he the LONG term answer...nope.  Do we need to find a franchise QB...yup.  

 

But your blind ranting hate for TT is now suggesting we GIVE AWAY assets for a 1 year vet just so you can have peace of mind that the 1 year vet is not TT.  That is so beyond absurd, I cant even fathom how any fan can logically come to this conclusion.  

 

Now if you want to trade McCoy for Foles because you BELIEVE Foles is the the franchise QB Buffalo needs (which Foles is not IMO), I wouldnt have an issue with you wanting that based on that belief.  But you are literally advocating sending valuable assets, whether its McCoy or draft picks, to get a stop gap Veteran who wont be here in a year after drafting a rookie to be the future.  Thats such a waste of assets since there are already veteran QB's we can sign in FA without having to part with our best offensive weapon or draft picks we need to keep BUILDING this team.  

 

Either sign Cousins or DRAFT the a potential franchise QB.  Under NO circumstances should the Bills give a single asset for Foles UNLESS they plan on him being the Franchise guy they want to build around and not draft a QB.  Which in that case, its a huge gamble where the resume is very underwhelming.

You criticize my ability to be rational on the Taylor issue when yet it coincides with the organization's line of thinking. And let me remind you that Whaley was going to dispatch Taylor before he had a viable replacement but couldn't execute his plan because he lost his authority. And the irrationality that you claim I have on this issue is more likely to coincide with the position that this current regime has on Taylor. What are the odds that Taylor is on our roster next season? 

 

Foles is not a franchise qb or it is questionable that he is a long term starting qb. Would I give up a McCoy for him for a one or two year deal? Absolutely. I would still want the Bills to go all out to get a top shelf qb prospect in this draft but still be in a position to be competitive and allow time to prepare the prospect. McCoy is undoubtedly one of our best players on offense. However, he is 30 yrs old, and he definitely won't be a workhorse back next season. Understandably, he is a diminishing player with a high price tag for a position where there are a number of reasonable options. Would there be a loss of productivity at his position? Probably so. But on the other hand the play at the more important position would inarguably be improved, even if it is for the short term. I'll take that deal. 

 

Make no mistake what my position is. I'm still a strong advocate for the franchise to come out of this draft with a high end qb prospect. But if a qb such as Foles can be attained for the price of a back and it would allow us to be more competitive and give time to develop a qb I would take the deal with no hesitation. I said it before and I will say it again: The era of a pop warner offense has to end. If you don't know what I mean then I suggest that you watch a tape of the Jacksonville game. From a quarterback standpoint it was an embarrassment. No more!

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s a FA next year. Any big deal will come from a trade and a season played. That’s been the point. If he plays well (or even pretty good) he’s getting a big deal. If he sucks, you gave up a good asset for a guy that played as a bridge guy for a year. 

 

Gotcha, thought you meant someone trading for him and giving him the deal now.  

 

I dont want to give up assets for a possible bridge QB.  Keep McCoy to help balance the offense for whatever rookie we draft to be our future.  

[YoloinOhio]

[Chicken Boo]

Almost nothing in the NFL is linear.  Foles is NOT a plug and play QB.  

 

He knows Pederson and his system and has a ton of talent around him.  That's why he's having success.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Gotcha, thought you meant someone trading for him and giving him the deal now.  

 

I dont want to give up assets for a possible bridge QB.  Keep McCoy to help balance the offense for whatever rookie we draft to be our future.  

I’m in agreement. I want to trade up and get a guy that could be a star.

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You criticize my ability to be rational on the Taylor issue when yet it coincides with the organization's line of thinking. And let me remind you that Whaley was going to dispatch Taylor before he had a viable replacement but couldn't execute his plan because he lost his authority. And the irrationality that you claim I have on this issue is more likely to coincide with the position that this current regime has on Taylor. What are the odds that Taylor is on our roster next season? 

 

Foles is not a franchise qb or it is questionable that he is a long term starting qb. Would I give up a McCoy for him for a one or two year deal? Absolutely. I would still want the Bills to go all out to get a top shelf qb prospect in this draft but still be in a position to be competitive and allow time to prepare the prospect. McCoy is undoubtedly one of our best players on offense. However, he is 30 yrs old, and he definitely won't be a workhorse back next season. Understandably, he is a diminishing player with a high price tag for a position where there are a number of reasonable options. Would there be a loss of productivity at his position? Probably so. But on the other hand the play at the more important position would inarguably be improved, even if it is for the short term. I'll take that deal. 

 

Make no mistake what my position is. I'm still a strong advocate for the franchise to come out of this draft with a high end qb prospect. But if a qb such as Foles can be attained for the price of a back and it would allow us to be more competitive and give time to develop a qb I would take the deal with no hesitation. I said it before and I will say it again: The era of a pop warner offense has to end. If you don't know what I mean then I suggest that you watch a tape of the Jacksonville game. From a quarterback standpoint it was an embarrassment. No more!

 

My point is you dont apply any rationale other than the QB just not being Tyrod.  If you think Foles is a stop gap, then its utterly absurd to trade an asset for him when there are quality veteran QB's on the open market we dont have to give up assets to get.  Its literally that simple.  But man, all you do is talk about TT and how it cant be him and dont care if you hurt the future of the team just to make sure its not him.

 

Whether you like it or not, its far better for the FUTURE of this team to keep TT or sign a FA and draft a rookie than it is to TRADE assets for Foles for one year and still draft a rookie.  If we are drafting our future QB, next year does NOT matter, its about the future.  So who cares who the TEMPORARY QB is while we groom a rookie, its literally irrelevant other than your personal desire to not see TT again. 

 

Again, if you want Foles as a franchise guy, then you proposing getting him makes sense.  But all your comments are about how he is a 1 year rental.  Ridiculus to give away McCoy or picks for a 1 year rental.  Either sign a vet, or keep TT, then go draft a stud prospect to be the future...or bypass all this and sign Cousins.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Chicken Boo]

6 hours ago, PIP said:

In a hot second MCcoy stinks.  No other team would pay him $8 mil like Buffalo is about to. The most New England will pay for any running back is 3 million. The position  is not that important. 

 

The position isn't important IF you have Tom Brady and run NE's system.  Other than that, name another perennial contender without a top flight RB *or running game.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Chicken Boo

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

My point is you dont apply any rationale other than the QB just not being Tyrod.  If you think Foles is a stop gap, then its utterly absurd to trade an asset for him when there are quality veteran QB's on the open market we dont have to give up assets to get.  Its literally that simple.  But man, all you do is talk about TT and how it cant be him and dont care if you hurt the future of the team just to make sure its not him.

 

Whether you like it or not, its far better for the FUTURE of this team to keep TT and draft a rookie than it is to TRADE assets for Foles for one year and still draft a rookie.  If we are drafting our future QB, next year does NOT matter, its about the future.  So who cares who the TEMPORARY QB is while we groom a rookie, its literally irrelevant other than your personal desire to not see one specific QB. 

 

Again, if you want Foles as a franchise guy, then you proposing getting him makes sense.  But all your comments are about how he is a 1 year rental.  Ridiculus to give away McCoy or picks for a 1 year rental.  Either sign a vet, or keep TT, then go draft a stud prospect to be the future...or bypass all this and sign Cousins.

As usual you are missing the point. With Foles I believe the Bills could still remain a competitive team. In addition, you would still have credible play at the qb position that would buy your young qb  time to be better prepared when the time comes to take over. It might be in his rookie year or second year. At least you remain competitive with a qb who can run a pro offense and can capably throw the ball. 

 

McCoy is a terrific player. But he is not in his prime from the standpoint of usage. His touches are going to be limited. If you lose his talent you balance it out with getting better qb play, even if it is for the short term. You want to portray my position as if I was mortgaging the future. That is utter nonsense. I wouldn't want to give up draft picks for Foles. But I would be willing to give up a high cost running back for him.  With a qb such as Foles the team can continue to be competitive.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, JohnC said:

As usual you are missing the point. With Foles I believe the Bills could still remain a competitive team. In addition, you would still have credible play at the qb position that would buy your young qb  time to be better prepared when the time comes to take over. It might be in his rookie year or second year. At least you remain competitive with a qb who can run a pro offense and can capably throw the ball. 

 

McCoy is a terrific player. But he is not in his prime from the standpoint of usage. His touches are going to be limited. If you lose his talent you balance it out with getting better qb play, even if it is for the short term. You want to portray my position as if I was mortgaging the future. That is utter nonsense. I wouldn't want to give up draft picks for Foles. But I would be willing to give up a high cost running back for him.  With a qb such as Foles the team can continue to be competitive.

 

 

His entire body of work says you'd have inconsistent play at QB with plenty of highs and lows. 

[Alphadawg7]

18 minutes ago, JohnC said:

As usual you are missing the point. With Foles I believe the Bills could still remain a competitive team. In addition, you would still have credible play at the qb position that would buy your young qb  time to be better prepared when the time comes to take over. It might be in his rookie year or second year. At least you remain competitive with a qb who can run a pro offense and can capably throw the ball. 

 

McCoy is a terrific player. But he is not in his prime from the standpoint of usage. His touches are going to be limited. If you lose his talent you balance it out with getting better qb play, even if it is for the short term. You want to portray my position as if I was mortgaging the future. That is utter nonsense. I wouldn't want to give up draft picks for Foles. But I would be willing to give up a high cost running back for him.  With a qb such as Foles the team can continue to be competitive.

 

 

Foles will not stay here more than 1 year with a rookie here, so you can forget about the 2 year window.  The Bills could also sing Keenum, Teddy, Bradford, McCown, or keep TT and remain competitive.  

 

Hate TT all you want, but we won 9 games and broke the playoff drought this year with him despite an inept OC, a diminished offensive line, diminished run game, and mostly terrible WR group most the year because of injuries, trades, FA, and a rookie who couldn't catch.  We CAN be competitive with TT and NOT give up assets.  Or if they dont want TT, sign a Vet to do the same thing while the rookie grooms.  

 

Under no circumstances should we give up any asset for a seat warmer to our rookie.  Sign Cousins, or draft a rookie and let him battle TT or some other FA vet for the gig until he takes the job for good.  

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Foles will not stay here more than 1 year with a rookie here, so you can forget about the 2 year window.  The Bills could also sing Keenum, Teddy, Bradford, McCown, or keep TT and remain competitive.  

 

Hate TT all you want, but we won 9 games and broke the playoff drought this year with him despite an inept OC, a diminished offensive line, diminished run game, and mostly terrible WR group most the year because of injuries, trades, FA, and a rookie who couldn't catch.  We CAN be competitive with TT and NOT give up assets.  Or if they dont want TT, sign a Vet to do the same thing while the rookie grooms.  

 

Under no circumstances should we give up any asset for a seat warmer to our rookie.  Sign Cousins, or draft a rookie and let him battle TT or some other FA vet for the gig until he takes the job for good.  

I'm agreeable to any option that doesn't include Taylor. In the three years he has started for us he has had no progression to his game. If a qb can't run a pro offense or throw it downfield then that player should not be a starter, even if it is as a bridge qb. What have we come to when it is considered an outrageous expectation to expect your starting qb to be able to run a pro offense? It's a sad commentary when expectations have been so dumbed down. A pop warner offense may be good enough for you but it is not for me. On this issue I'm not yielding or going with the flow. 

[Alphadawg7]

41 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm agreeable to any option that doesn't include Taylor. In the three years he has started for us he has had no progression to his game. If a qb can't run a pro offense or throw it downfield then that player should not be a starter, even if it is as a bridge qb. What have we come to when it is considered an outrageous expectation to expect your starting qb to be able to run a pro offense? It's a sad commentary when expectations have been so dumbed down. A pop warner offense may be good enough for you but it is not for me. On this issue I'm not yielding or going with the flow. 

 

What does it matter if its TT or some other band aid if we draft a rookie?  Its not like TT would still be the future in that case, its all about the rookie moving forward.  

 

All that matters is we draft a high rookie or sign Cousins.  Everything is a waste of breath to worry about.  Doesn't matter if TT keeps the seat warm or some other vet.  The future will still be the rookie.

[B-Man]

No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, JohnC said:

The reason why the Eagles would not trade Foles for McCoy is that it would be a losing proposition for them. Or in other words it would be more beneficial for us. I intensely disagree with you that Foles would be a lesser player than either McCown or Fitz. The mistake you and others are making is that you are assuming that he would be ensconced as our long term franchise qb. I am not suggesting that. However, in my view he would not only be an acceptable bridge qb but also a dramatic upgrade at that position until the next high end qb prospect is ready to play. 

 

I didn't say worse than McCown or Fitz. He might be slightly better than them. But they cost you nothing. Fitz plus McCoy is better than Foles and no running back. 

 

I am not thinking Foles would be "enconsed" and Foles was a name I banded about last year when I thought we should have replaced Tyrod and Foles was going to be released by KC. I think Foles is an acceptable bridge. Just not one you give up serious assets for. If Philly would take a 5th I'd do it. A 1st, 2nd or our best offensive weapon? No thanks. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Imo there are only 2 players on this team that are untouchable. Shady and Tre White. Do not trade McCoy. Just don’t.

[Wsam4031]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

What are you talking about?  Kelly, Elway, Montana, Brees aren't walking through OBD's door.   Where is your "legit franchise QB" right now?

Well they certainly aren't if we trade for foles, sign Bradford, keenum etc. We already know what those guys are.  Im just saying that id rather gamble on trading up and drafting a legit franchise QB, if the bills identify one of them as one, than sign a guy we know wont be

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Wsam4031 said:

Well they certainly aren't if we trade for foles, sign Bradford, keenum etc. We already know what those guys are.  Im just saying that id rather gamble on trading up and drafting a legit franchise QB, if the bills identify one of them as one, than sign a guy we know wont be

 

We sure do...One just won the SB, another lost to the SB winner in the NFCC game.

 

how are the Bills going to identify "a legit franchise QB" in the draft?

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't say worse than McCown or Fitz. He might be slightly better than them. But they cost you nothing. Fitz plus McCoy is better than Foles and no running back. 

 

I am not thinking Foles would be "enconsed" and Foles was a name I banded about last year when I thought we should have replaced Tyrod and Foles was going to be released by KC. I think Foles is an acceptable bridge. Just not one you give up serious assets for. If Philly would take a 5th I'd do it. A 1st, 2nd or our best offensive weapon? No thanks. 

I consider McCoy a sterling player. But the reality is that he is a thirty year old speed back whose value is going to diminish. Without a doubt his workload is going to lessen, so he is not going to be as much of a focal player as he has been. You can't beat mother nature!  Brady is in a different category because of the position he plays. His position relies more on brains than athleticism. 

 

Let's look at what you would get from an acquisition of Foles in an exchange for a back. You get a qb who can run a pro offense and make pro throws. That in itself is a major upgrade from what we have been accustomed to over the past three years.  Foles is a qb who even in the short term (one to two years) will keep the Bills competitive while it continues with its reconstruction. 

 

Where I forcefully disagree with you is that a McCoy/Taylor combination does not closely match replacement backs/Foles combination. In addition, in my scenario the Bills keep their picks. And if smartly handled they can either work a deal to get their ace qb prospect or if they stay pat get an infusion of young talent added to the roster. 

 

I'm open to all qb options other than retaining Taylor. That shipped has sailed a long time ago for me. If I could get a qb such as Bradford from the market I would be ecstatic. My unyielding criteria is that the qb has to be able to run a pro offense and throw the ball down field. 

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

What does it matter if its TT or some other band aid if we draft a rookie?  Its not like TT would still be the future in that case, its all about the rookie moving forward.  

 

All that matters is we draft a high rookie or sign Cousins.  Everything is a waste of breath to worry about.  Doesn't matter if TT keeps the seat warm or some other vet.  The future will still be the rookie.

Odds are that McBeane are going to move on from Taylor just as Whaley had moved on. I just don't see this regime keeping him for another year. Taylor was recently asked if the organization had communicated with him about his future. He succinctly said no. What does that tell you about their plans for him, even as a bridge qb? 

 

My priority is to draft a qb and have a presentable bridge qb in place until the prospect is ready to play. When I say presentable I mean a qb that is capable of running a pro offense and throw the ball down the field. If Bradford was available I would be ecstatic. 

 

If you are truly a Tyrod aficionado you would want him to be dealt so that he could have a fresh start somewhere else. This fine fellow needs a new scenery to recharge. It's evident that it is not happening in western NY.