Vote/Question. Is there a conspiracy for the pats to win?

[buffaloboyinATL]

10 hours ago, row_33 said:

They are more talented and better coached and more driven to win than everone else.

 

that tends to win

 

Yes, they are so great that they only had ONE penalty called on them the entire game. That is the fewest penalties called on a team in the playoffs since 2011, when the Patriots* beat the Ravens in the AFC Championship game. So yes, it is a little easier to be great when you don't have to worry about having the officials take away your momentum, like every other team in the NFL does.

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

This is what I saw yesterday:

 

1.  Nearing the two-minute warning (27 minutes of action), the refs had called exactly 2 penalties.  One for each team.  The Jags were up 14-3, and driving yet again. 

2.  After completing another big throw on 3rd down, the refs called delay of game on Bortles.  They did not blow the whistle before the play to kill it dead.  Strange for a delay of game.

3.  On the next play, the refs immediately threw a flag for holding.  Jags got sacked anyway, but the penalty would have taken away anything they may have gotten.

4.  Pats got the ball back with just around 2 minutes.  Two straight penalties, totaling 47 yards to put them at the 13 yard line.  Boom, game is 14-10 instead of 17-3.

5.  No more penalties are called the entire 3rd quarter, and then the first 8 plus minutes of the 4th quarter.  Jags still lead 20-17.

6.  Suddenly, another iffy pass interference penalty puts the Pats into Jags territory.  The defense holds and forces a punt, but the field has been flipped, and Brady has gotten all the assistance he needs.

 

 

 

On number 2 - It was definitely delay of game.  I was watching the clock and was surprised the flag didn't come out quicker.  They were 2 seconds late getting the snap off.  

On number 3 - Didn't see a replay of the holding call so can't comment.

On number 4 - They were both correct calls.

On number 5 - Can't remember the exact play would need to refresh my memory.  

 

On the flipside I think the fumble was not fumble and was called wrongly.  That game was officiated fairly in my opinion.  

Edited January 22, 2018 by GunnerBill

[Kirby Jackson]

I have an assignment for anyone that has some time and it will be interesting (and time consuming). Go back over the last however many years and figure this out. Off the top of my head there are 3 things to look for: total penalties on Pats vs. Opposition, yards in both scenarios and how many penalties were on 3rd or 4th down that resulted in a 1st? This needs to be done though ONLY on games that are within 14 points either way. Throw out everything else. That, imo, will tell more of the story than intuition. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

I have an assignment for anyone that has some time and it will be interesting (and time consuming). Go back over the last however many years and figure this out. Off the top of my head there are 3 things to look for: total penalties on Pats vs. Opposition, yards in both scenarios and how many penalties were on 3rd or 4th down that resulted in a 1st? This needs to be done though ONLY on games that are within 14 points either way. Throw out everything else. That, imo, will tell more of the story than intuition. 

 

It will partly.... I think the unconscious bias applied mostly in penalties not called on New England than on ones called on opponents.  I see them get away with OL holds for example that don't get called and the ones that don't get called it is hard to make that same critical down analysis.   

[Gugny]

10 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Overall they’re far superior, I agree, but on this particular Sunday they were outgained, dominated in time of possession, and lost the turnover battle to Doug Marrone and Blake Bortles’ team. They weren’t better today and didn’t deserve nearly a field’s worth of penalty yard discrepancy.

 

Jacksonville is a dirty team.  I didn't see any penalties called on them that weren't warranted.  However, I will say that NE got away with some holds on the line.  But other than that, I think they played a very disciplined game and it was one of the difference makers, IMO.

[Kirby Jackson]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It will partly.... I think the unconscious bias applied mostly in penalties not called on New England than on ones called on opponents.  I see them get away with OL holds for example that don't get called and the ones that don't get called it is hard to make that same critical down analysis.   

That’s probably true I just don’t know how you ever quantify that part? 

[jaybee]

Rigged ?  C'mon kids !  Nothing more than Patriot haters that have no appreciation for the greatness that is Tom Brady.  He's been in the league 16 years, been in a SB 8 of them.  In games down by 10 in 4th qtr he is 3-4.  Rest of NFL, 3-70.  He is the best QB in the history of the game.

 

What will you say to your grand kids when they ask:  What was Tom Brady like ?  Will you say he was amazing ?  Or will you say, he was only good because the refs made calls in his favor?  Pathetic.  

 

His main weapon Gronkowski out of the game, Edelman out for season. Playing against the best pass defense in the league.  Has no-name receivers and still pulls out the comeback victory.  That was just another example historic greatness at the QB position.

 

I hate the Patriots as much as anyone but for the 2-3 years Brady has left I will enjoy his greatness because there will never be another like him.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s probably true I just don’t know how you ever quantify that part? 

 

No nor me

[TC in St. Louis]

I've only seen one other delay of game penalty called AFTER the play was completed for a first down.  It was in the Bills playoff game against Cincinnati in the early 80's when Joe Ferguson hit Lou Piccone for a first down, and the flag hit Piccone as he went out of bounds.  And it was delay of game after a timeout.  Yesterday's call was correct, but they should have blown the play dead, whistles, flags flying, etc.  The Jags may have had the chance to run the same play.  

 

I thought the pass interference at the end of the first half was a bad call for 2 reasons.  One, both guys were jacking with each other along the sidelines.  Two, it was an uncatchable ball.

 

The worst call was on the fumble recovery....the Jag would have scored had the ref not blown the whistle.  They should have let the play continue till its finish, and at that point it would have been a Jacksonville touchdown for a 27-10 lead.

[BillsFan130]

 

3 minutes ago, TC in St. Louis said:

I've only seen one other delay of game penalty called AFTER the play was completed for a first down.  It was in the Bills playoff game against Cincinnati in the early 80's when Joe Ferguson hit Lou Piccone for a first down, and the flag hit Piccone as he went out of bounds.  And it was delay of game after a timeout.  Yesterday's call was correct, but they should have blown the play dead, whistles, flags flying, etc.  The Jags may have had the chance to run the same play.  

 

I thought the pass interference at the end of the first half was a bad call for 2 reasons.  One, both guys were jacking with each other along the sidelines.  Two, it was an uncatchable ball.

 

The worst call was on the fumble recovery....the Jag would have scored had the ref not blown the whistle.  They should have let the play continue till its finish, and at that point it would have been a Jacksonville touchdown for a 27-10 lead.

Good post. I agree with all of this 

Edited January 22, 2018 by billsfan11

[Buffalo_Gal]

I am sure it has been mentioned but....

It isn't just the calls on the team opposing NE, it is the non-calls for NE too. NO holding calls yesterday on NE? Give me break.

Football is a game of momentum and it sure is amazing how many times NE benefits from momentum killing penalties on the other team.

 

[BillsFan130]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I am sure it has been mentioned but....

It isn't just the calls on the team opposing NE, it is the non-calls for NE too. NO holding calls yesterday on NE? Give me break.

Football is a game of momentum and it sure is amazing how many times NE benefits from momentum killing penalties on the other team.

 

That’s my biggest issue as well.

 

Wasn’t so much the calls on the Jags although I disagree with a few of them, it was the non calls against the Pats players.

 

1 penalty for 10 yards on a kickoff return...That’s a joke

 

 

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

23 minutes ago, jaybee said:

Rigged ?  C'mon kids !  Nothing more than Patriot haters that have no appreciation for the greatness that is Tom Brady.  He's been in the league 16 years, been in a SB 8 of them.  In games down by 10 in 4th qtr he is 3-4.  Rest of NFL, 3-70.  He is the best QB in the history of the game.

 

What will you say to your grand kids when they ask:  What was Tom Brady like ?  Will you say he was amazing ?  Or will you say, he was only good because the refs made calls in his favor?  Pathetic.  

 

His main weapon Gronkowski out of the game, Edelman out for season. Playing against the best pass defense in the league.  Has no-name receivers and still pulls out the comeback victory.  That was just another example historic greatness at the QB position.

 

I hate the Patriots as much as anyone but for the 2-3 years Brady has left I will enjoy his greatness because there will never be another like him.

I can only speak for myself but I will disparage him every chance I get. As far as my kids and grandkids will be concerned he is a steroid using, ball deflating, candy stealing, baby punching scrub. 

[Matt_In_NH]

12 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I didn’t see much of anything to get upset with in the game. The one play that had the potential to be controversial(the fumble) was upheld like it should have been. 

 

They played good disciplined football to end that game. 

 

What I dont think was talked about much there was that he may not have been down by contact.  I never thought they really slowed it down to go over that.  In other words, yeah he was touching the receiver but he never got posession of the ball til he was standing which means he was NOT down by contact.   That could have been a TD the other way.  I do not think it was a conspiracy there though, just too fast of a play.

[Stank_Nasty]

45 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I have an assignment for anyone that has some time and it will be interesting (and time consuming). Go back over the last however many years and figure this out. Off the top of my head there are 3 things to look for: total penalties on Pats vs. Opposition, yards in both scenarios and how many penalties were on 3rd or 4th down that resulted in a 1st? This needs to be done though ONLY on games that are within 14 points either way. Throw out everything else. That, imo, will tell more of the story than intuition. 

i'm never gonna do that but I think its worth mentioning that I saw a stat near the end of the season that the pats had more scoring drives extended by a 3rd down penalty than anyone in the nfl this year and it was by a wide margin.

 

that's annoying.

[Da webster guy]

Jags dBacks are maulers.  They play too handsy and it costs them massive chunks of yardage.  They should have lost to Pitt because of it, and it cost them the game yesterday.   Just unnecessary in most cases, Brady isn't super accurate anymore and they still mauled the receivers.   Poor coaching. 

[Happy]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t think that it is a conspiracy for the Pats to win as much as it is the benefit of the doubt. I have an analogy that I think fits. LeBron gets calls that Omri Casspi doesn’t. He has been good for so long that when it is close it tends to go his way. That happens a lot with the Pats and hurts their opponents. It isn’t an outright conspiracy as much as “50/50” calls become “80/20” calls. Sometimes that has a big impact like it did before the half yesterday. It isn’t a part of some larger plan by the NFL to make good guys vs. bad guys like in the WWE. 

 

This is quite logical and may very well be right on the money.  I'm not sure the league realizes how much it has snowballed and inflated NE's record, and possibly post season position, to something greater than it should be.  In other words, the 80/20 calls have gifted the Pats wins that they probably shouldn't have.

[BillsFan130]

5 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

Jags dBacks are maulers.  They play too handsy and it costs them massive chunks of yardage.  They should have lost to Pitt because of it, and it cost them the game yesterday.   Just unnecessary in most cases, Brady isn't super accurate anymore and they still mauled the receivers.   Poor coaching. 

Live and die by the sword I guess. They are physical and that’s how they have played all season.

 

Just like The Seahawks secondary as well. They will get their fair share of flags but at the same time, their aggressiveness and physicality made them dominate as well.

[Happy]

10 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Is it 100% based on revenue and tv ratings? Ding...Ding....Ding...Ding

 

Quite possible.  I suspect Gronk only got a one game suspension because the league wanted him to play against the Steelers; as you said, ratings.

The NFL appears to be tone deaf and unaware of the Pats fatigue that exists among the larger fan base.

[BuffaloBaumer]

12 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I didn’t see much of anything to get upset with in the game. The one play that had the potential to be controversial(the fumble) was upheld like it should have been. 

 

They played good disciplined football to end that game. 

 

Yes but he looked like he had a path to the endzone before they whistled it dead. That would have been the nail to go up 27-10

[teef]

no.  i don't think there's a true conspiracy here.  as others have mentioned, things just tend to go the pats way.  mostly because of talent, some due to the benefit of the doubt.

[Gordio]

Yeah it is what it is at this point.  It is not even worth getting upset about anymore.  I won't go as far as to say the game is rigged, but you could bet the league was dreading a Jacksonville/Minn-Philly super Bowl.  We have been watching this for the past 16 years, the Patriots get the benefit of the calls.  Yesterday's outcome was totally predictable.  In fact I even told my dad when Jacksonville went up 20-10 that the Pats will win it 24-20.  The delay of game call was the right but like a previous poster said, why didn't they just blow it dead.  The first PI was right if the ball was catchable which is highly debateable, the second one was garbage at a critical point of the game.  The biggest thing about this game was the non holding calls.  You could call a holding penalty on every play.  It is of my opinion that the refs are instructed to call holding penalties on the Patriot opponents at critical times in the games.  Holding penalties are drive killers for most teams.  To not call on penalty on NE except for special teams speaks volumes as to where the league is right now. 

[North Buffalo]

Sabrespace

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They cheat. I don't deny they cheat.  There is no conspiracy from the refs to help them though.  

 

I don't think it was a fumble.  I think he was down before the ball came loose.  It is not a "catch" he was a runner.... so the ball "moving" is not relevant.  The question is at the point he is down does he still "possess it" and it is pinned to his side to my eyes.  But I agree they should not have whistled the play dead.  The reason they did is the ref who whistled it was ruling down by contact (the right call in my mind) and it was the 2nd ref who came in and ruled fumble by which point the whistle had been blown. A mistake but an understandable one, though I am a proponent for let them play and work it out later.  

 

Bouye was definite PI.  Not sure why he did it either... he was in a good position... he just needed to keep running his lane and keep his eyes on the ball.  Cooks was squeezed against the boundary there was about a 10% chance he made that play.  

I wasn't arguing the fumble.  

 

I dislike the 1 freaking penalty  when there should have been some.  

[BillsFan130]

66 percent (2:1) say it is a conspiracy so far. Thanks for voting and sharing opinions everyone as I always found it interesting to see how many Bills fans thought the league was giving games to the Pats

[GunnerBill]

Just now, ShadyBillsFan said:

I wasn't arguing the fumble.  

 

I dislike the 1 freaking penalty  when there should have been some.  

 

The fumble response wasn't aimed at you.  

 

I do think New England gets the benefit of the doubt particularly on offensive holding.... but I think it is unconscious bias rather than conspiracy.  

[Stank_Nasty]

I think its comical that almost 70% actually think a real "fix" is on.... that's just silly.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I have an assignment for anyone that has some time and it will be interesting (and time consuming). Go back over the last however many years and figure this out. Off the top of my head there are 3 things to look for: total penalties on Pats vs. Opposition, yards in both scenarios and how many penalties were on 3rd or 4th down that resulted in a 1st? This needs to be done though ONLY on games that are within 14 points either way. Throw out everything else. That, imo, will tell more of the story than intuition. 

I have one seared in my head..

When the replacement Refs were calling the games the Purtid Pats averaged 6 penalties per game, the same as Buffalo.  The strike ended for the Buffalo Cheaters week.  

 

Buffalo ~ 10 penalties (4 more than average) and the Putrids  had 2  (4 less than average)

 

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Jacksonville is a dirty team.  I didn't see any penalties called on them that weren't warranted.  However, I will say that NE got away with some holds on the line.  But other than that, I think they played a very disciplined game and it was one of the difference makers, IMO.

you need to make a gif that rotates your avatars  ...  I can't keep up with which one to look for.  

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I do think New England gets the benefit of the doubt particularly on offensive holding.... but I think it is unconscious bias rather than conspiracy.  

agreed 

bias, not conspiracy 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Da webster guy said:

Jags dBacks are maulers.  They play too handsy and it costs them massive chunks of yardage.  They should have lost to Pitt because of it, and it cost them the game yesterday.   Just unnecessary in most cases, Brady isn't super accurate anymore and they still mauled the receivers.   Poor coaching. 

4 PI calls all year on Jags secondary.

[FearLess Price]

12 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

 

 I do think this sort of thing is conceptually very possible, and you most certainly can control the outcome of games, with a fair degree of certainty, simply by controlling a few key calls at critical times in the game.

The question I would have is where is the motive?  Who is going to benefit from the game fixing?  The owners are already billionaires.  Usually the motive is bookies controlling the gambling and they control the game by giving a lot of money to the referee, who is willing to take the bribe b/c the money is much greater than he is making through legitimate means.

 

Not sure that set of facts lines up with forces surrounding modern NFL play though.

 

 

 

This is exactly why its too plausible.  Vegas is always "right"  'Follow the money hunny'

[North Buffalo]

Reminds me of the 70s Dolphins when Shula was on the competition committee

[buffaloboyinATL]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I am sure it has been mentioned but....

It isn't just the calls on the team opposing NE, it is the non-calls for NE too. NO holding calls yesterday on NE? Give me break.

Football is a game of momentum and it sure is amazing how many times NE benefits from momentum killing penalties on the other team.

 

Exactly! it doesn't always take a bunch of obvious calls to make a game one sided from the officials, just a missed call here and there and one or two big momentum swings against the opponent or for the Pats*. I am not saying the team isn't talented, but I am saying that they get a bit more than their fair share of assistance from the zebras.

16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

4 PI calls all year on Jags secondary.

Not bad for a bunch of handsy maulers. 

 

[thunderingsquid]

12 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

Bull****

 

Have you ever seen any team in Pro sports be able to just throw anyone in their lineup and still come out with the same results every year? Even when Brady is not in the lineup they aren't missing a beat. They go through many stretches where they don't look good, wasn't their defence one of the worst in the league statistically to start the year? Then here they are, rolling their way into the championship again. Almost every team that plays them just happens to forget to keep playing late in a game allowing them to come back and win it? Every play that is challenged in a game goes their way when they need it to. You see calls that get reviewed go their way and its questioned how they could have made that call, then the next week that same thing happens in another game and its called the way it should have been in the Pats game? Has one of their highly successful Co-Ordinators/Coaches went on to do well anywhere else? How many of their players ever leave and continue to play well elsewhere (outside of Garopollo who theres rumors they didn't want to get rid of)

 

No team can be this dominant just because of a QB and a HC...........

 

This.  Just look up how many penalties the *pats have in their last few games.  THIS IS OBVIOUS!

[Da webster guy]

On 1/22/2018 at 11:07 AM, GoBills808 said:

4 PI calls all year on Jags secondary.

and how many defensive holding calls?  there were four major ones in Pitt, NE.  

[Runninrams]

no, its just an inferiority complex people need to build to make themselves feel better and avoid the real truth that your team is not good enough to win and you cant accept it

[LabattBlue]

I just looked at the poll numbers, then took a ride to the store.  Completely out of tinfoil...go figure.

[Freddie's Dead]

Conspiracy?  No.  No, never a conspiracy.