Offensive PI (rule change to consider)

[TakeYouToTasker]

The current Defensive PI thread got me thinking about a change to Offensive PI I'd like to see, which would be to see it result in a loss of down in addition to a 10 yard walk off.

 

Thoughts?

[BuffaloBillies]

The current rules on offensive PI are fine... they just need to call it! So many receivers push off, even some (most) of the star WRs around the league. They got good at it too... extending their arm about 80% right before the ball comes, but not 100%, so the zebras let it go, but it's a major advantage.

[seregil42]

I guess I don't see the purpose in a loss of down in addition to the 10 yards.

[Ramza86]

12 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said:

The current rules on offensive PI are fine... they just need to call it! So many receivers push off, even some (most) of the star WRs around the league. They got good at it too... extending their arm about 80% right before the ball comes, but not 100%, so the zebras let it go, but it's a major advantage.

 

They do know how to get away with it....but let me tell you...DBs know how to grab on a break and get away with it too. So I think while the rules favor the offense. Defensive players can get away with stuff and its not that hard. 

[Mr. WEO]

How does this make the game better?

[Fan in San Diego]

My only issue with PI is that it gets called at the spot of the foul. It's way too punitive. Make it a 10 yard penalty and loss of down.

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

Why? What does that accomplish? What's wrong with the rule now? Should we just change everything just to change it?

 

How about this. Leave the game and rules the way they are and find people to ref the game that don't have bias. Or let's gets some refs that you know....didn't officiate a game for the Lombardi led Packers and don't have 60 years of confusing rule changes to sift through. Just a thought.

[Gugny]

If anything, the penalties need to be simpler and, as someone else already pointed out, they need to be called.

 

Furthermore, penalties need to be called primarily (if not only) when they actually affect a play.

 

If someone puts his hands in someone's face and the play is on the other side of the field, why the !@#$ call it? 

[mikemac2001]

17 minutes ago, seregil42 said:

I guess I don't see the purpose in a loss of down in addition to the 10 yards.

 

Ya it's not like international grounding which avoids a sack (loss of yards and down)

 

or illegal pass (incomplete so loss of down and yardage)

[Chandemonium]

It would actually make sense to me if all offensive penalties that occur on a live play result in a loss of down, with the logic being that you shouldn't get a re-do for breaking the rules. Exception would be a downfield spot foul where the spot after the penalty still would've been enough for a 1st on the play. Pre snap penalties would not result in a loss of down because the down hasn't happened yet when the foul occurs. 

[cba fan]

20 minutes ago, Fan in San Diego said:

My only issue with PI is that it gets called at the spot of the foul. It's way too punitive. Make it a 10 yard penalty and loss of down.

 

Since defensive holding regardless if it is 1st and 10 or 3rd and 50 or 3rd and 1 etc etc............is 5 yds and automatic first down.

Why is not offensive holding downfield(also called illegal block, illegal pick).......5 yd penalty and automatic 4th down for offense?

Edited January 16, 2018 by cba fan

[CEN-CAL17]

The league wants touchdowns. The loss of downs and a 10 yd penalty is going in the opposite direction of helping teams score touchdowns....

[26CornerBlitz]

The penalty for an OPI infraction is fine as is with no need for a change. 

[Figster]

Myself personally, I'm not a fan of anything that stalls more drives out.

 

 I think O holding should be reduced to a 5 yard penalty...

[ddaryl]

33 minutes ago, Fan in San Diego said:

My only issue with PI is that it gets called at the spot of the foul. It's way too punitive. Make it a 10 yard penalty and loss of down.

 

 

if it wasn't so punitive you'd see more Defenses abusing it

 

Its fine the way it is

[JohnC]

22 minutes ago, Gugny said:

If anything, the penalties need to be simpler and, as someone else already pointed out, they need to be called.

 

Furthermore, penalties need to be called primarily (if not only) when they actually affect a play.

 

If someone puts his hands in someone's face and the play is on the other side of the field, why the !@#$ call it? 

You are one of the few people that I know who gets smarter when in the last stages of one's downside. I salute you for your wisdom. You may be fading but your lightbulb is still shining bright.  

[B-Man]

as long as the New England "exemption" is kept, I'm fine with it................

[RobH063]

I think there should be a 10 yard penalty assessed against any receiver that looks at a ref, raises his arms and verbally complains. It happens on every incomplete pass play. Ridiculous. Just play the damn game. Let the coaches complain if the situation dictates it.

Edited January 16, 2018 by RobH063

[cba fan]

4 minutes ago, RobH063 said:

I think there should be a 10 yard penalty assessed against any receiver that looks at a ref, raises his arms and verbally complains. It happens on every incomplete pass play. Ridiculous. Just play the damn game. Let the coaches complain if the situation dictates it.

Well....Zay Jones and Kelvin Benjamin are All Pros at not selling the missed call......

[BillsFan130]

There are lots of rules in the NFL that need changing, but I don't think OPI is one of them

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Chandemonium said:

It would actually make sense to me if all offensive penalties that occur on a live play result in a loss of down, with the logic being that you shouldn't get a re-do for breaking the rules. Exception would be a downfield spot foul where the spot after the penalty still would've been enough for a 1st on the play. Pre snap penalties would not result in a loss of down because the down hasn't happened yet when the foul occurs. 

 

Opposing team can decline the penalty.

 

2 hours ago, cba fan said:

Since defensive holding regardless if it is 1st and 10 or 3rd and 50 or 3rd and 1 etc etc............is 5 yds and automatic first down.

Why is not offensive holding downfield(also called illegal block, illegal pick).......5 yd penalty and automatic 4th down for offense?

 

So if the penalty happens on 1st down, the team would then have to punt (or face a 4th and 15)?

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[Direhard Fan]

Gugny is correct.  Don't call when the penalty isn't part of the play.  That's bogus.  Why can't refs call every game like the playoffs?  Hardly any calls which I like.  Let them play.

[PolishDave]

They could fix most of the pass interference penalties by only allowing refs in a booth upstairs to call it.   There should be at least 2 refs in the booth upstairs making those calls.

 

That resolves the issue with receivers and DB's complaining to the refs about the calls.    They would have to look up at the booth to complain if that is where the guy is who is calling it.

 

The refs should also provide proof of the penalty by showing it on the Jumbotron/television by circling what the infraction is at the time it happens - a grasped jersey, a hand to the face, and arm being held down, etc.      

 

All of a sudden, all of the calls that the fans on television see - those would get called.   And the ones you can't see, would be non-calls.

 

I think it would work better and remove all personal contact between the receivers/defensive backs and the guys actually calling those penalties.

 

The truth is, with all the cameras and the high resolution, sometimes the fans see things a lot clearer and better than the referees do.

 

They could do it with offensive line holding calls also.

Edited January 16, 2018 by PolishDave

[cba fan]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

So if the penalty happens on 1st down, the team would then have to punt (or face a 4th and 15)?

Yes. Would apply same logic that a db hold would give a team automatic 1st down.

Not fair that a 3rd and 40 gets a first down on a hold 5 yrds from line of scrimmage. 

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by cba fan

[snafu]

I always thought that the walk off should equal the distance past the line where the offensive pass interference occurred.  So if the interference occurred 12 yards downfield, then the offense should be marched back 12 yards.  The offense would not lose a down unless the interference was less than 10 yards downfield.

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

The league wants touchdowns. The loss of downs and a 10 yd penalty is going in the opposite direction of helping teams score touchdowns....

 

Then why punish offenses at all?

[familykwi]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

If anything, the penalties need to be simpler and, as someone else already pointed out, they need to be called.

 

Furthermore, penalties need to be called primarily (if not only) when they actually affect a play.

 

If someone puts his hands in someone's face and the play is on the other side of the field, why the !@#$ call it? 

This is a major topic of discussion among officials.  I officiate in California and this is one of the hardest things to get inexperienced officials to understand.  Too many want everyone to know they are there and that they are watching infractions, but some lack the judgement and patience to wait to see if the foul mattered.

 

I get frustrated watching NFL officials make calls that I know would not be supported in the meetings I attend.  What I look for is how fast the flag came out after the "infraction."  Quick flags are a bad sign. 

See the foul. 

Make sure the foul is in the area of the play/ball. 

Ensure the foul led to an actual gain by the team that fouled.

THEN throw the flag.

 

The one that used to fool me was block in the back on kickoffs.  I would see the block lining up, say to myself, "don't do it," then throw the flag as soon as I saw the contact.  Unfortunately, the player who was blocked stumbled toward the returner and made the tackle.  That happened twice during the same season.  That really taught me how to slow down.

 

Ambition some times gets in the way of judgement and patience.

[Augie]

It should be called on Gronk if he passes the line of scrimmage. 

[ndirish1978]

Loss of down is too harsh a punishment for something half the receivers in the league do and try to find ways to get away with. If I'm not mistaken there are only 2 penalties that require a loss of down and those are both related to passing: passing beyond the line of scrimmage and intentional grounding. I'd argue that grounding is the only one that should carry that penalty because it's an attempt to avoid a negative play earned by the other team by breaking the rules.    

 

My biggest problem with the rules isn't their severity, it's the subjective application. If they wanted an accurate measurement they could just chip the balls like they do in soccer and half of the goal line fuss wouldn't matter, you could tell if the ball broke the plane of the end zone and the exact time it did and just check the tape to make sure the runner wasn't down or out of bounds at that precise moment. You could have pinpoint precision as to where to spot the ball and wouldn't need the chains. But the NFL doesn't want that because it is different from what we're used to. Until then you're always going to have what people perceive as unfair applications of the rules. A rule as severe as a loss of down in a situation like a 3rd and goal takes away from the game. You want people to lose their minds? Call that penalty in the waning moments in a game that matters and watch fans riot when they see both players were handfighting.