Is the NFL fixed or is it influenced in any way shape or form besides strictly who the better team is

[westerndecline]

Does anyone have any compelling evidence statistical evidence or rational reasons on why they think the NFL is fixed? I'd be interested in hearing your arguments because the more time I spend being a Bills fan the more I turn into Oliver Stone.

 

This recent call that was randomly overturn from New York really has me worried

I also find it bizarre that the San Diego Chargers moved to LA and when 10 years prior the charges were a horrible team and talk of them moving was also a possibility Eli Manning ran away went to New York

 

John Elway didn't want to go to Baltimore and then Baltimore left

 

Jim Kelly didn't want to come to Buffalo then randomly signs a huge contract with a massive endorsements from Elites in the Buffalo Bills go to four straight Super Bowls

 

Then when Michael Vick was in his prime he was talked out of going to Buffalo

 

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by westerndecline

[chef4131]

IMO the greatest example of this was discussed on the 30 for 30 Elway to Marino. In essence it was charged that the raiders were screwed by the league office of making a trade for the 1st pick in the 83 draft.  For some unexplained reason the bears were called by the league office prior to completing a deal with the raiders for the 5th pick (this would have given the raiders the final piece needed to trade with Indy for pick #1.  It was charged by Marvin Demoff and Ron Wolf--if this is fact true...............................keeping in mind that the raiders and Pete Rozelle were feuding at this time.  If you have not seen this 30 for 30 special I suggest watching this.

[Lenigmusx]

The initial premise of your post had a ton of merit. I can't follow your example or logic though. The fact that Kraft has officials In his pocket is a reoccurring theme. Why do you think deflategate took so long to surface... why is every major replay since the tuck rule overturned in the Pats favor? Bob Kraft has influence.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Lenigmusx

[JinxedBill1]

I think the grey areas of the game can be messed with to influence winners and that's all about the rule book.

 

I look no further than the tuck rule.  Recent example?  Jesse James for the Steelers and Benjamin for the Bills.  The grey area in these calls that has to do with interpretation of the rule allows the league office to influence outcomes of games.

 

Fixed?  I don't think it's fixed where each team knows who will win.

[Not at the table Karlos]

2 minutes ago, JinxedBill1 said:

I think the grey areas of the game can be messed with to influence winners and that's all about the rule book.

 

I look no further than the tuck rule.  Recent example?  Jesse James for the Steelers and Benjamin for the Bills.  The grey area in these calls that has to do with interpretation of the rule allows the league office to influence outcomes of games.

 

Fixed?  I don't think it's fixed where each team knows who will win.

I don't think it's fixed but it is heavily influenced.  The refs are becoming bigger and bigger parts of the game.

[mjt328]

I don't believe the NFL is completely "fixed" - at least not to the extend that the WWE and professional wrestling is totally scripted for a particular outcome. 

 

But that doesn't mean I believe the league is completely fair and free of outside influence.  If there is a dollar to be made by swaying a play or even a game, it's highly likely that someone is trying (if not succeeding) at doing just that.

 

The MLB turned its back on steroid abuse for over a decade, because players chasing home run records was big business.  In the NBA, a referee was caught by the FBI betting on playoff games.  Since being convicted, he has alleged that ALL of his colleagues do the same.  This summer, he claimed the league was trying to let the Cavaliers win to extend the Finals.  When the Patriots were caught cheating the first time (Spygate), the NFL responded by immediately destroying the evidence, giving the team a slap on the wrist and doing everything in their power to downplay the incident.

 

Even if there isn't an NFL mandate that states - "Must help New England win the Super Bowl" - you better believe the refs are pushed to protect the league's marquee QBs like Tom Brady.  Maybe there isn't a giant conspiracy to assist the Steelers or Packers - but you would be foolish to think these officials are not gambling or playing fantasy football.  And with the money involved, organized crime is certainly entrenched behind the scenes.

 

[Heavy Kevi]

3 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

I don't believe the NFL is completely "fixed" - at least not to the extend that the WWE and professional wrestling is totally scripted for a particular outcome. 

 

But that doesn't mean I believe the league is completely fair and free of outside influence.  If there is a dollar to be made by swaying a play or even a game, it's highly likely that someone is trying (if not succeeding) at doing just that.

 

The MLB turned its back on steroid abuse for over a decade, because players chasing home run records was big business.  In the NBA, a referee was caught by the FBI betting on playoff games.  Since being convicted, he has alleged that ALL of his colleagues do the same.  This summer, he claimed the league was trying to let the Cavaliers win to extend the Finals.  When the Patriots were caught cheating the first time (Spygate), the NFL responded by immediately destroying the evidence, giving the team a slap on the wrist and doing everything in their power to downplay the incident.

 

Even if there isn't an NFL mandate that states - "Must help New England win the Super Bowl" - you better believe the refs are pushed to protect the league's marquee QBs like Tom Brady.  Maybe there isn't a giant conspiracy to assist the Steelers or Packers - but you would be foolish to think these officials are not gambling or playing fantasy football.  And with the money involved, organized crime is certainly entrenched behind the scenes.

 

 

This sums it up nicely.

 

When it comes to the Pats, the NFL and the media has done everything to suggest "nothing to see here" or this is a "non-story", but we are talking about one group of cronies getting caught with their hand in the cookie jar more than 3 times.

 

It doesn't take a football junkie to watch these plays and see the double standard and obvious bias by refs. Nobody really believes that there is fairness in officiating, though that's what they claim "well, calls go both ways"... but they don't. All the calls with real impact go to the pats, then after the game is essentially won they throw a few nothing calls against them so the box score deceives you into thinking it's fair. Clever. Corrupt.

[The Wiz]

The most recent I can remember is one of the refs telling Cam Newton "he wasn't good enough to get those calls" when complaining about not getting a flag for something.  Or something along those lines which tells me they are least bias in some way.

6 minutes ago, Shotgunner said:

 

This sums it up nicely.

 

When it comes to the Pats, the NFL and the media has done everything to suggest "nothing to see here" or this is a "non-story", but we are talking about one group of cronies getting caught with their hand in the cookie jar more than 3 times.

 

It doesn't take a football junkie to watch these plays and see the double standard and obvious bias by refs. Nobody really believes that there is fairness in officiating, though that's what they claim "well, calls go both ways"... but they don't. All the calls with real impact go to the pats, then after the game is essentially won they throw a few nothing calls against them so the box score deceives you into thinking it's fair. Clever. Corrupt.

The make-up calls was something I brought up in another thread.  Someone pointed out that the pats have gotten something like 30+ first downs off of defensive penalties and lead the league.  I wanted to know the split for flags thrown against the pats when they up vs when they are trailing.  I'd almost bet that most of their flags come in the second half.

[frostbitmic]

Do I have proof the league is fixed ?... No

 

Do I believe the league is fixed ? ... Yes to a certain extent to a certain team. This year in particular has that WWE feeling to me regarding a certain team and trying to get a certain player yet another ring. It just feels to me like they aren't even trying to hide it anymore. Going back about 5 years or so ago, Arthur Blank, the owner of the Falcons let this comment slip past his lips "I wish we were chosen for this years Super Bowl".

 

There has been talk on why the NFL is going down in the ratings. Some say it's the player protests. Some claim it's because of CTE in the players. To me it's the non stop kissing of a certain teams backside in what I believe the league wants in the Super Bowl and will do whatever it takes to get them there..

[Big Turk]

Pats with 3 penalties for 9 yards in last 7+ quarters at one point during the Bills game...ridiculous...Hughes was getting mugged on numerous plays when the game was still in the balance...

 

But as soon as McCoy pops a big run to start the 2nd half...whoops...holding on Buffalo...

Edited December 27, 2017 by matter2003

[Doc]

If it's on TV, it can be and probably is manipulated to a certain degree.  And because everything on TV is "entertainment," they're legally allowed to do so.  It's not completely fixed like WWE, but bad/missed calls at crucial times and not holding those responsible for making them are how they manipulate it.

[BadLandsMeanie]

No evidence. But I do think so. I think so because a good fair number of the calls over the past few years appear to be exactly that. Game fixing. And there is no reasonable explanation offered why those plays would have been called that way.

So I think it is fixed because it looks like it is fixed.

[Chimp]

There seems to be an awful lot of hedging in this thread.  Yeah it's fixed.  Yeah it's too hard to script like a wrestling match with 22 people on the field.  Still definitely fixed.

[PromoTheRobot]

8 hours ago, westerndecline said:

Does anyone have any compelling evidence statistical evidence or rational reasons on why they think the NFL is fixed? I'd be interested in hearing your arguments because the more time I spend being a Bills fan the more I turn into Oliver Stone.

 

This recent call that was randomly overturn from New York really has me worried

I also find it bizarre that the San Diego Chargers moved to LA and when 10 years prior the charges were a horrible team and talk of them moving was also a possibility Eli Manning ran away went to New York

 

John Elway didn't want to go to Baltimore and then Baltimore left

 

Jim Kelly didn't want to come to Buffalo then randomly signs a huge contract with a massive endorsements from Elites in the Buffalo Bills go to four straight Super Bowls

 

Then when Michael Vick was in his prime he was talked out of going to Buffalo

 

 

Not so much fixed as steered.

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

I am gonna bring up the Cam Newton incidences. The guy consistently gets pummeled and hit late inside of the pocket with no flag whatsoever. I personally don't like Cam Newton but, it is blatantly obvious that he is not as protected and the Golden Boy Tom Brady or even Aaron Rodgers. Yes he's a big Physical guy and has been known to take off and run but, why does that keep him from being protected. Suh punched Tyrod in the face and still haven't heard anything about it since whether it was on purpose or not shouldn't matter its a blow to the head.

The low hanging fruit obviously is all the calls that seem to go against anyone playing the Patriots. I always thought my grandfather was crazy and we always laughed when he said it was fixed it's not a joke anymore though. Way too many games are being decided by the refs and instant replay has made it even easier for them to make game changing calls.

[OldNMBillsFan]

Hell yes its fixed!! Make it 4 games now that Riveron has helped the Pats win.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/12/18/alberto-riveron-nfl-senior-vice-president-of-officiating-patriots-calls-jesse-james/stories/201712180138

Edited December 27, 2017 by OldNMBillsFan

[B-Man]

Response.

 

 

 

 

.

[Sweats]

I kind of like where you were starting with this thread, but then you kind of went off in some random directions and i lost interest..............sorry.

[KD in CA]

"Fixed" doesn't require a fully scriped game played by actors.   It only requires a nudge here and there to dramatically increase the odds of a desired outcome.   Hence the key holding call or overturned TD in the second quarter to change momentum, etc.

 

There is no sport where this doesn't happen and it obviously happens routinely in the NFL now that the dollars involved are so big.  The NFL wants it's marquee teams to win.  It is not particularly interested in the TV ratings for playoff games involving teams like Buffalo, Arizona, and Detroit.

 

[westerndecline]

32 minutes ago, OldNMBillsFan said:

Hell yes its fixed!! Make it 4 games now that Riveron has helped the Pats win.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/12/18/alberto-riveron-nfl-senior-vice-president-of-officiating-patriots-calls-jesse-james/stories/201712180138

You are saying Riveron has actually stepped in from New York City four times to help overturn the call for the Patriots but has never done it for any other team or situation that is extremely bizarre

I hate this to say it never thought I'd say it and it's unbelievable that I'm saying it I'm not going to say the NFL is fixed obviously I think that's pretty ridiculous but I think there's compelling evidence that it's obviously being influenced

 

And I'm calling b******* right now on Drew Bledsoe not having more success from 2002 to 2004 which was at the height of the Patriots cheating

 

Those teams were loaded with Talent who knows what really happened

I also remember a key game in the season 2015 the bills had tons of flags called on them against the Giants

 

 

 

The 2015-2016 bills were loaded too

 

Karlos Williams randomly got fat Sammy Watkins injury was handled bizarrely Marcell Dareus suspended randomly Shaq Lawson injury to shoulder Reggie Ragland ran away tears ACL

[ChasBB]

if it is fixed, the NFL is going to lose their audience.  I know a guy who has stopped watching football just because of the stuff NE gets away with.  He believes the fix is in and is no longer a fan.  If this is what the NFL wants, keep letting NE get all the calls and see if fans keep coming.  The guy isn't a Bills fan, either.

[westerndecline]

8 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

"Fixed" doesn't require a fully scriped game played by actors.   It only requires a nudge here and there to dramatically increase the odds of a desired outcome.   Hence the key holding call or overturned TD in the second quarter to change momentum, etc.

 

There is no sport where this doesn't happen and it obviously happens routinely in the NFL now that the dollars involved are so big.  The NFL wants it's marquee teams to win.  It is not particularly interested in the TV ratings for playoff games involving teams like Buffalo, Arizona, and Detroit.

 

That's true remember the huge 25 30 yards run into Patriots dark territory by LeSean McCoy and then boom holding call

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Pats with 3 penalties for 9 yards in last 7+ quarters at one point during the Bills game...ridiculous...Hughes was getting mugged on numerous plays when the game was still in the balance...

 

But as soon as McCoy pops a big run to start the 2nd half...whoops...holding on Buffalo...

I agree its not adding up

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

Do I have proof the league is fixed ?... No

 

Do I believe the league is fixed ? ... Yes to a certain extent to a certain team. This year in particular has that WWE feeling to me regarding a certain team and trying to get a certain player yet another ring. It just feels to me like they aren't even trying to hide it anymore. Going back about 5 years or so ago, Arthur Blank, the owner of the Falcons let this comment slip past his lips "I wish we were chosen for this years Super Bowl".

 

There has been talk on why the NFL is going down in the ratings. Some say it's the player protests. Some claim it's because of CTE in the players. To me it's the non stop kissing of a certain teams backside in what I believe the league wants in the Super Bowl and will do whatever it takes to get them there..

 

OK, then why would Jerry Jones and the Pegula, Mara, Rooney want NE to win all those super bowls?  What's in it for them to let this go on so blatantly?

 

Anybody got an explanation why all other owners would not want their own team to win a SB now and then? 

[westerndecline]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

OK, then why would Jerry Jones and the Pegula, Mara, Rooney want NE to win all those super bowls?  What's in it for them to let this go on so blatantly?

 

Anybody got an explanation why all other owners would not want their own team to win a SB now and then? 

Not win the sb but protect their playoff chances

 

There's also a myriad of ways not just conspiring among owners...

[LabattBlue]

Not fixed. It would be the end of the league if proof ever came out the games were being "fixed" by the league.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, westerndecline said:

Not win the sb but protect their playoff chances

 

There's also a myriad of ways not just conspiring among owners...

 

 

You didn't answer me question.

 

If it is so obvious "the league" is favoring one team  over all others, why would the league ("the league"="the owners") put up with that?

 

Jerry Jones just went down in flames over a RB's suspension and Goodell's salary--because he thought his team would get to the SB this year..  Yet, he would be OK with years of helping out Kraft, who he hates?

 

This is the central problem with any discussion of the NFL being "fixed" in favor of any team.  It makes no sense at all.

[Freddie's Dead]

Best example - JP Losman is hit late, low, and dirty by Vince Wolfork and incurs a knee injury.  No fine, nothing from the NFL.  Next season, Tom Brady is hit low and cleanly, suffers a season-ending knee injury.  NEW RULE!!!  NO HITTING THE QB AT OR BELOW THE KNEES!!!

[KingRex]

A few years ago I had the same concern and asked your question to a friend who also was addicted to football.  She set my mind at ease by asking one question.

 

If it's fixed why isn't it more interesting?

 

I had to agree.  If you were some all powerful entity able to determine the results of years of outcomes wouldn't you produc a more interesting or simply more profitable result than the silliness the No Fun League has produced over the past?

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, KingRex said:

A few years ago I had the same concern and asked your question to a friend who also was addicted to football.  She set my mind at ease by asking one question.

 

If it's fixed why isn't it more interesting?

 

I had to agree.  If you were some all powerful entity able to determine the results of years of outcomes wouldn't you produc a more interesting or simply more profitable result than the silliness the No Fun League has produced over the past?

 

Good question.

 

Going past the illogical conclusion of the whole league being fixed, is it a few guys?  Like Riveron, for example.  Or other refs.  Why would they only favor one team?  what would be in it for them?  If they are gamblers (or working for gamblers), they would be fixing all sorts of close, big money games.  What gambler says "I will only bet on this one team!"??

 

People want to assign "obvious" explanations to situations which are difficult to explain.  None of this makes sense as a conspiracy on any level.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

Do I have proof the league is fixed ?... No

 

Do I believe the league is fixed ? ... Yes to a certain extent to a certain team. This year in particular has that WWE feeling to me regarding a certain team and trying to get a certain player yet another ring. It just feels to me like they aren't even trying to hide it anymore. Going back about 5 years or so ago, Arthur Blank, the owner of the Falcons let this comment slip past his lips "I wish we were chosen for this years Super Bowl".

 

There has been talk on why the NFL is going down in the ratings. Some say it's the player protests. Some claim it's because of CTE in the players. To me it's the non stop kissing of a certain teams backside in what I believe the league wants in the Super Bowl and will do whatever it takes to get them there..

 

Can NFL referees play fantasy football?

3 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

No evidence. But I do think so. I think so because a good fair number of the calls over the past few years appear to be exactly that. Game fixing. And there is no reasonable explanation offered why those plays would have been called that way.

So I think it is fixed because it looks like it is fixed.

 

Some of the calls I have seen overturned make the game essentially unwatchable to me.

 

[Jasovon]

I have for many years here and on the BBMB been banging the drum that the NFL is either fixed or strongly controlled by the officials and i suspect the league. This opinion is becoming more popular this season because it is more blatant than it ever has been i suspect because the Patriots* are a worse team and need more help than in previous years.

 

Make no mistake our playoff drought has been caused by some terrible officiating deciding key games for us. 

[Thurman#1]

It's not fixed, it's not influenced, it's nothing. 

 

The risk/reward ratio for doing something so stupid would be so far out of whack. Just wouldn't make sense. It would be like taking the risk of murdering someone for the potential reward of a half a piece of toast.

 

The fan base of nearly every team is convinced that the league hates them. The league doesn't hate anyone. They just make a ton of mistakes, which will happen in nearly any huge organization.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You didn't answer me question.

 

If it is so obvious "the league" is favoring one team  over all others, why would the league ("the league"="the owners") put up with that?

 

Jerry Jones just went down in flames over a RB's suspension and Goodell's salary--because he thought his team would get to the SB this year..  Yet, he would be OK with years of helping out Kraft, who he hates?

 

This is the central problem with any discussion of the NFL being "fixed" in favor of any team.  It makes no sense at all.

 

 

Another good point.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Thurman#1

[westerndecline]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You didn't answer me question.

 

If it is so obvious "the league" is favoring one team  over all others, why would the league ("the league"="the owners") put up with that?

 

Jerry Jones just went down in flames over a RB's suspension and Goodell's salary--because he thought his team would get to the SB this year..  Yet, he would be OK with years of helping out Kraft, who he hates?

 

This is the central problem with any discussion of the NFL being "fixed" in favor of any team.  It makes no sense at all.

Use common sense dude in any type of conspiracy or nefarious activity there is always rogue elements...

 

Its not a perfect conspiracy

 

If you haven't noticed many other owners have spoken up against the Patriots I believe the Colts did with the deflategate the Jets did with Spygate and now the Buffalo Bills and a few other teams are speaking up about the Patriots Replay by us and bizarre calls from New York City to overturn things

It's also well known that Goodell is a snake in the grass and completely played Jerry Jones he told him before the season started that there was no chance that Elliott was going to be suspended and then he goes ahead and suspend Elliott

 

That's why Jerry Jones was so pissed off because Goodell lied to him

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

It's not fixed, it's not influenced, it's nothing. 

 

The risk/reward ratio for doing something so stupid would be so far out of whack. Just wouldn't make sense. It would be like taking the risk of murdering someone for the potential reward of a half a piece of toast.

 

The fan base of nearly every team is convinced that the league hates them. The league doesn't hate anyone. They just make a ton of mistakes, which will happen in nearly any huge organization.

NBA referees disagree with you it's documented fact that they were fixing or influencing games

And I don't give a flying f*** when anyone says that 1998 game in Foxboro was complete b******* and I'm still bitter about it on that day they took over the Rivalry for me as the most hated team of the Buffalo Bills not Miami anymore

Tht loss kept us from a home game vs miami and possible serious run...

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, westerndecline said:

Use common sense dude in any type of conspiracy or nefarious activity there is always rogue elements...

 

Its not a perfect conspiracy

 

If you haven't noticed many other owners have spoken up against the Patriots I believe the Colts did with the deflategate the Jets did with Spygate and now the Buffalo Bills and a few other teams are speaking up about the Patriots Replay by us and bizarre calls from New York City to overturn things

It's also well known that Goodell is a snake in the grass and completely played Jerry Jones he told him before the season started that there was no chance that Elliott was going to be suspended and then he goes ahead and suspend Elliott

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, so who are the "rogue" owners who are OK with giving NE all the rings?  And if Jones is so upset, why doesn't he blow the whistle on this whole "imperfect conspiracy"?

 

 

 

 

[westerndecline]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Ok, so who are the "rogue" owners who are OK with giving NE all the rings?  And if Jones is so upset, why doesn't he blow the whistle on this whole "imperfect conspiracy"?

 

 

 

 

Who said Jones was ever a part of it???

 

I already exposed the flaw in your argument because owners of already come out against the Patriots over the years

 

It would not surprise me if Goodell secretly along with maybe a few owners or even people that are below owners have favoritism towards the Patriots for whatever reason most likely money obviously

 

The calls obviously showcase this

 

Also what said publicly and what goes on behind the scenes are usually completely different

 

All I know is ever since Robert Kraft has taken over the Patriots have been to 8 Super Bowls since 1996

 

I think they've been to 13 afc championship games....

 

That's statistically impossible basically in my book

The one year they didnt make it

 

They went 11-5 with matt !@#$in cassell....................

[Jackington]

Shortly after 9/11 the tuck rule game happened to vault the Patriots to victory. Hey, it's good for a mourning nation to be Patriots.

 

Fast forward to this year. NFL getting a lot flack for all the kneeling, they seem unpatriotic. Feels like a good time to take advantage of that Patriot name and good ol Tom Brady...

 

The Truth Is Out There

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, westerndecline said:

Who said Jones was ever a part of it???

 

I already exposed the flaw in your argument because owners of already come out against the Patriots over the years

 

It would not surprise me if Goodell secretly along with maybe a few owners or even people that are below owners have favoritism towards the Patriots for whatever reason most likely money obviously

 

The calls obviously showcase this

 

Also what said publicly and what goes on behind the scenes are usually completely different

 

All I know is ever since Robert Kraft has taken over the Patriots have been to 8 Super Bowls since 1996

 

I think they've been to 13 afc championship games....

 

That's statistically impossible basically in my book

The one year they didnt make it

 

They went 11-5 with matt !@#$in cassell....................

 

No you didn't.  Why hasn't Jones come out against this conspiracy to favor NE.  Why hasn't Pegula come out and exposed it, instead of meekly saying they need to fix the reply system? 

 

How do "a few" owners  (or those "below them") make money when their teams continuously lose to the patriots?  And if it is not money, what might some of the less "obvious" reasons be?

 

Why would established ownership families (Rooneys, Maras, Halas/McCaskey, Bidwells, York, Irsay, etc) and guys like Jones decide, in '94, "hey, the Sullivan Stadium landlord just bought the Patriots.  Let's make sure he gets to and wins as many SBs as possible.....just because!"

 

Come on man, bring your good stuff and lay it all out for us.

[westerndecline]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No you didn't.  Why hasn't Jones come out against this conspiracy to favor NE.  Why hasn't Pegula come out and exposed it, instead of meekly saying they need to fix the reply system? 

 

How do "a few" owners  (or those "below them") make money when their teams continuously lose to the patriots?  And if it is not money, what might some of the less "obvious" reasons be?

 

Why would established ownership families (Rooneys, Maras, Halas/McCaskey, Bidwells, York, Irsay, etc) and guys like Jones decide, in '94, "hey, the Sullivan Stadium landlord just bought the Patriots.  Let's make sure he gets to and wins as many SBs as possible.....just because!"

 

Come on man, bring your good stuff and lay it all out for us.

Again who said the other owners know about it even you're the one that keeps bringing up that argument that doesn't make any sense the owners don't have to be in collusion or need to be aware of the conspiracy only New England does

When evidence came out during Spygate that the Patriots basically knew the other teams plays before the snap took place

 

Goodell destroyed all the evidence

 

To this day we really don't know how bad the damage really was but if you know what the other team is going to run before the snap I can pretty much guarantee you who's going to win

I'm not saying there is like a WWF fix it going on I'm saying that the Patriots are cheating have been cheating are cheating and keep cheating under the Kraft regime

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, westerndecline said:

Again who said the other owners know about it even you're the one that keeps bringing up that argument that doesn't make any sense the owners don't have to be in collusion or need to be aware of the conspiracy only New England does

 

So...this overwhelmingly obvious conspiracy is likely only known by the patriots.....and every poster on this board?

 

Essentially, every NFL fan knows it is going on, but the owners are still in the dark?  That's the part that "makes sense" to you?

[westerndecline]

There was also at 8 that came out that the Jets complained about wear during punt returns the Patriots players on the sideline with stand on the very edge of the sideline so that the Gunner would have no chance at getting to the punt returner

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

So...this overwhelmingly obvious conspiracy is likely only known by the patriots.....and every poster on this board?

 

Essentially, every NFL fan knows it is going on, but the owners are still in the dark?  That's the part that "makes sense" to you?

Of course it's already been proven they already have been caught cheating point-blank twice three times if you catch Lee Gunner issue that they were warned about

If they were willing to blatantly cheat like that what makes you think they don't have some type of hook up with the officiating especially at home

 

You know and I know that call reversal from New York was incredibly bizarre and a huge red flag that something else is going on literally the whole entire media is talking about it

 

They have cheated in your in your face multiple times in the past what makes you think they'll stop now

 

 

And I got more news for you I guarantee you in 5 to 10 years it's going to come out that Tom Brady was on HGH mark my words

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So...this overwhelmingly obvious conspiracy is likely only known by the patriots.....and every poster on this board?

 

Essentially, every NFL fan knows it is going on, but the owners are still in the dark?  That's the part that "makes sense" to you?

The NFL knew what was going on buddy and they destroy the evidence what does that tell you

You're acting like it's not the norm for institutions to become corrupt