Do you take Lamar Jackson?

[Bakin]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

Is he all that different than Tyrod?  A running QB that may be too short and too small.  

He's 6'3" no???

[Augie]

Has Jackson bulked up some? I’d look it up, but they lie. Does he look more sturdy? 

[Billsfansinceday1]

8 hours ago, Bakin said:

He's 6'3" no???

Look at the pics of Love and Mayfield standing next to him.  He appears to be about the same height as Mayfield and several inches taller than Love.  It may be the camera angle but multiple pics show the same thing.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Billsfansinceday1

[Kmart128]

No. It's time Bills got a pocket passer. Quit the gimmicks. Get a QB who can primarily move the football from the pocket. I don't mind athletic QBs but it has to be used as a compliment to his arm... not the primary threat and the ability to move around in the pocket. 

 

In that scenario I take Mayfield.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

33 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

No. It's time Bills got a pocket passer. Quit the gimmicks. Get a QB who can primarily move the football from the pocket. I don't mind athletic QBs but it has to be used as a compliment to his arm... not the primary threat and the ability to move around in the pocket. 

 

In that scenario I take Mayfield.

 

Mayfield isn’t really a pocket passer.  He loves to roll out of the pocket, but unlike Tyrod, he looks to throw rather than run.  Plus, Mayfield is maybe 6’ tall.  No impossible to overcome “short” stature, well by NFL QB standards anyway, but it is challenging.

[BuffaloBill]

9 hours ago, Bakin said:

He's 6'3" no???

 

 

I read 6’ 2” which is probably overstated

[Johnny Hammersticks]

On 12/6/2017 at 7:28 PM, Jay_Fixit said:

I wouldn’t touch Jackson before round 3. And the Mariota comparison is terrible. Mariota was much more polished of a passer. 

 

Jackson has all the talent to succeed but I don’t trust a guy who’s in a great offensive system and is barely scraping the 60% completion rate.

 

Not to mention 57.4% over 1055 career attempts.

 

 

 

 

I agree the Mariota comparison is bad, but for the opposite reason.  Jackson is a far better passer already than Mariota will ever hope to be.  As much as it is becoming cliche, Lamar can make ALL the necessary NFL throws.  Phenomenal arm.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

14 hours ago, Augie said:

Has Jackson bulked up some? I’d look it up, but they lie. Does he look more sturdy? 

 

Yeah, he has bulked up some, however, he is still slight of frame for his height.  One of the main criticisms of Jackson, IIRC, is that he’s come close to his ceiling in terms of his body type.  More of a WR’s build.

[Chicken Boo]

No!!!!

 

Have you all learned nothing?!

[JaCrispy]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

we do not run a read option offense and I’m tired of having QBs where throwing the football is their second best quality

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Two words:

 

!@#$ no.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

13 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

we do not run a read option offense and I’m tired of having QBs where throwing the football is their second best quality

Louisville didn't run a read option offense and it's always a plus when you have a QB that has wheels too. I say QB because Lamar Jackson is a QB that uses his legs as a option to make plays. He has developed as a pocket QB and is progressing.

[JaCrispy]

1 minute ago, the skycap said:

Louisville didn't run a read option offense and it's always a plus when you have a QB that has wheels too. I say QB because Lamar Jackson is a QB that uses his legs as a option to make plays. He has developed as a pocket QB and is progressing.

Maybe so, but I just prefer a more refined passer

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 12/5/2017 at 7:29 AM, Bakin said:

Without the Bills trading up, it looks like Rosen or Darnold are out of the picture. 

Which leaves Heisman winner Lamar Jackson as a possibility in the middle of the 1st. 

While he's not my first choice - Kid seems like a gamer to me. 

 

Anyone hesitant to give him a shot?

 

I'll take this years Heisman

 

 

[Billsfansinceday1]

After hearing him speak prior to the Heisman Award ceremony, I was wondering how his Wonderlic will turn out.  He didn't come across as a guy who will be able to incorporate a complex NFL offensive scheme.  I may be completely wrong, and, in fact, hope I am.

[GunnerBill]

My view on taking Jackson is that he would probably by my 5th choice..... but I would consider it in the first.  I have him graded as a Round 2 guy but I don't mind the Bills going for a guy that I consider a little reach this year.  It is better than consistently punting on QBs.  

 

[JohnC]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

My view on taking Jackson is that he would probably by my 5th choice..... but I would consider it in the first.  I have him graded as a Round 2 guy but I don't mind the Bills going for a guy that I consider a little reach this year.  It is better than consistently punting on QBs.  

 

What ranking did a qb such as Russell Wilson have in his draft year? Without a doubt ranking is part of the process. But if a fifth ranked qb is attainable while the higher ranked qbs are not then you have to take that qb if your evaluation of him indicates that the player has the ability to be a franchise qb. The notion that a franchise should only take the highest or second highest rated qb is a self-sabotaging notion for a team that perennially has been stuck in the no-man's land of the mediocre middle.  

 

You and I are in accord on the qb issue. We have been both dancing to the same tune for a long time. It's long past time that this staid and cautious franchise act out of character and be bold. It needs to take the initiative to place itself in a position to come out of this draft with a bona fide qb prospect. My stance on the qb position is that I don't particularly care what round the qb is rated. If you believe that ultimately the prospect has the ability to become a franchise qb then you have to seize the opportunity. The Bills have no excuses this year. They have the draft assets to move up the board. Dithering is not an option. 

[Solomon Grundy]

20 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Maybe so, but I just prefer a more refined passer

Like Deshaun Watson???

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

My view on taking Jackson is that he would probably by my 5th choice..... but I would consider it in the first.  I have him graded as a Round 2 guy but I don't mind the Bills going for a guy that I consider a little reach this year.  It is better than consistently punting on QBs.  

 

What was your view on Deshaun Watson?? Where did you have him graded?? What was Russell Wilson grade?? 

17 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I'll take this years Heisman

 

 

Why, because last year's Heisman winner is not good enough??

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Like Deshaun Watson???

What was your view on Deshaun Watson?? Where did you have him graded?? What was Russell Wilson grade?? 

 

Wilson was before I was doing it. Only been grading since 2014, but I had a mid to high 1st on Deshaun Watson and he was my QB1 in 2017 and that is documented in the archive repeatedly if you want proof. As my QB1 with that grade I made an argument that Cleveland should take him 1st overall and that the Bills should race to the platform if he was there at 10. I was also higher than most on Dak Prescott and had a round 2 grade on him.

 

I grade where I grade based on the tape. My criteria is consistent. That does not necessarily mean that I think, when it comes to QB particularly, that teams should always stick to their board (much less my board) and I would be fine with the Bills swinging for Jackson in the 1st. He is my QB5 at this point (my process is not complete) but I think the Bills need to stop punting on the position. I had a 3rd on Mahomes last year but I'd have been fine with the Bills picking him at 10 too.... we need to take a Quarterback! 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by GunnerBill

[Solomon Grundy]

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Wilson was before I was doing it. Only been grading since 2014, but I had a mid to high 1st on Deshaun Watson and he was my QB1 in 2017 and that is documented in the archive repeatedly if you want proof. As my QB1 with that grade I made an argument that Cleveland should take him 1st overall and that the Bills should race to the platform if he was there at 10. I was also higher than most on Dak Prescott and had a round 2 grade on him.

 

I grade where I grade based on the tape. My criteria is consistent. That does not necessarily mean that I think, when it comes to QB particularly, that teams should always stick to their board (much less my board) and I would be fine with the Bills swinging for Jackson in the 1st. He is my QB5 at this point (my process is not complete) but I think the Bills need to stop punting on the position. I had a 3rd on Mahomes last year but I'd have been fine with the Bills picking him at 10 too.... we need to take a Quarterback! 

 

 

Thanks Gunner!!

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, the skycap said:

Like Deshaun Watson???

What was your view on Deshaun Watson?? Where did you have him graded?? What was Russell Wilson grade?? 

Why, because last year's Heisman winner is not good enough??

Yes, like Watson

[Bakin]

On 2017-12-10 at 8:22 PM, JaCrispy said:

Maybe so, but I just prefer a more refined passer

Runs a pro style offence. 

Passing numbers improved every year??

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, Bakin said:

Runs a pro style offence. 

Passing numbers improved every year??

Sorry....I just want a QB where running isn’t his best quality.

Edited December 15, 2017 by JaCrispy

[Jay_Fixit]

On 2017-12-10 at 5:31 AM, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

 

I agree the Mariota comparison is bad, but for the opposite reason.  Jackson is a far better passer already than Mariota will ever hope to be.  As much as it is becoming cliche, Lamar can make ALL the necessary NFL throws.  Phenomenal arm.

Nope.

[Victory Formation]

No. I would not take him. Electrifying runner but will never be a great passer. I want a QB that beats you with his brain, not his legs.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

9 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Nope.

 

Nope, what?  What is your opinion jay_fitbit?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Solomon Grundy]

Gunner,  does Deshaun Watson Draft report sound similar to Lamar Jackson to you?

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-pff-scouting-report-deshaun-watson-qb-clemson

[Wayne Arnold]

His lack of throwing accuracy consistency is disconcerting but if he's there with the Bills second 1st round pick then I think the Bills should pull the trigger. He's a freak athlete (even more so than Tyrod) and isn't close to reaching his full potential as a quarterback.

[Billsfansinceday1]

16 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

His lack of throwing accuracy consistency is disconcerting but if he's there with the Bills second 1st round pick then I think the Bills should pull the trigger. He's a freak athlete (even more so than Tyrod) and isn't close to reaching his full potential as a quarterback.

My thoughts exactly regarding his accuracy.  I think we take a more NFL ready QB with our first pick like Mayfield or Rudolph.

 

And there is pick #2 against Lamar today.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Billsfansinceday1

[H2o]

Hell to the no. Jackson is a phenomenal athlete. His position will be at WR if he is willing to make the switch. He IS NOT going to make it as a QB in the NFL. 

[Wayne Arnold]

And then he does that. Intriguing. Definitely has star potential. 'It' factor.

[SWATeam]

He’s a pretty good passer.  People are going to be down on him for the picks in this bowl game, but that’s not normal for him.

 

i like him.  HUGE upside potential.  Only concern is durability with running style.  Quite a weapon.

[H2o]

14 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

And then he does that. Intriguing. Definitely has star potential. 'It' factor.

He has the 'it' factor, I agree. I also recognize the off the charts athleticism. I will still say he will not succeed at QB in the NFL. His mechanics are faulty along with his footwork at times. It makes him just not that accurate. People try to fix these things and more times than not it fails. If he willingly switches to WR then he has the potential to be the most successful to do so yet, more so than Edelman. He is a slightly taller clone of Tyrod, with a lower level of accuracy. He's not Vick reincarnate like some want to believe. 

[BuffaloDave55]

Are you watching him in the Bowl game?  A big thumbs down!!!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 12/10/2017 at 11:10 PM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I'll take this years Heisman

 

 

 

...Beane take Rudolph IMO............

[Wayne Arnold]

4 minutes ago, H2o said:

He has the 'it' factor, I agree. I also recognize the off the charts athleticism. I will still say he will not succeed at QB in the NFL. His mechanics are faulty along with his footwork at times. It makes him just not that accurate. People try to fix these things and more times than not it fails. If he willingly switches to WR then he has the potential to be the most successful to do so yet, more so than Edelman. He is a slightly taller clone of Tyrod, with a lower level of accuracy. He's not Vick reincarnate like some want to believe. 

 

Don't be ridiculous. Jackson is miles better than Tyrod.

 

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...Beane take Rudolph IMO............

 

I wouldn't mind that at all.

.

Though Rudolph isn't a day 1 starter.

[H2o]

9 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Don't be ridiculous. Jackson is miles better than Tyrod.

 

 

I wouldn't mind that at all.

.

Though Rudolph isn't a day 1 starter.

He barely completes 60% of his passes in college, but he's miles better than Tyrod? Why? Because he's taller? Tyrod is just as electric scrambling around and showing his elusiveness at the NFL level as Lamar is in college. Tyrod is also more accurate in the NFL than Lamar is at the college level. Miles better? I think not my friend. 

[Wayne Arnold]

1 minute ago, H2o said:

He barely completes 60% of his passes in college, but he's miles better than Tyrod? Why? Because he's taller? Tyrod is just as electric scrambling around and showing his elusiveness at the NFL level as Lamar is in college. Tyrod is also more accurate in the NFL than Lamar is at the college level. Miles better? I think not my friend. 

 

How many Heisman Trophies did Taylor win?

[H2o]

4 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

How many Heisman Trophies did Taylor win?

I'm not disputing the fact that he is a great COLLEGE player. Tebow was a GREAT college player. What I am telling you is he doesn't have the skillset to make it at QB in the NFL. He is not Vick. He is not Deshaun Watson. His passing ability just isn't something to be desired. Again, exceptional athlete. Not an NFL QB.