Do you take Lamar Jackson?

[Bakin]

Without the Bills trading up, it looks like Rosen or Darnold are out of the picture. 

Which leaves Heisman winner Lamar Jackson as a possibility in the middle of the 1st. 

While he's not my first choice - Kid seems like a gamer to me. 

 

Anyone hesitant to give him a shot?

[Woodman19]

It always comes down to value, if he falls in your lap you have to pull the trigger.

[Cripple Creek]

30 minutes ago, Bakin said:

Without the Bills trading up, it looks like Rosen or Darnold are out of the picture. 

Which leaves Heisman winner Lamar Jackson as a possibility in the middle of the 1st. 

While he's not my first choice - Kid seems like a gamer to me. 

 

Anyone hesitant to give him a shot?

Is this year's Heisman winner still available in your scenario?

[Kirby Jackson]

I like Baker ther but like Lamar too. Rudolph is the guy that I don’t want.

[YoloinOhio]

I would love to draft him!!!

[Bakin]

16 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Is this year's Heisman winner still available in your scenario?

I assume you mean Baker?

assume yes that he's available. 

Do you take Baker over Lamar?

 

[Cripple Creek]

Just now, Bakin said:

I assume you mean Baker?

assume yes that he's available. 

Do you take Baker over Lamar?

 

I do. Personally I love his "fire" even though it has gotten him into some difficult spots. I see zero percent chance (ok, 5% is realistic) that he ruins his NFL chances through mistakes made off the field.  He will, IMO, mature. I'll take that competitiveness and try to rein it in a bit vs taking JAG with similar talent.

[The Jokeman]

I'm resistant as he doesn't have the best of completion percentages, I know it's one stat but it worries me that he's another great college athletic QB and not a pure passer which is what you need to maintain long term success in the NFL. 

[YoloinOhio]

13 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I'm resistant as he doesn't have the best of completion percentages, I know it's one stat but it worries me that he's another great college athletic QB and not a pure passer which is what you need to maintain long term success in the NFL. 

Completion percentages in college are very sketchy. They include so many pitches and dump offs. They don’t take into account what a QB is and isn’t asked to do within a given scheme. I don’t even look at them, personally. Jackson runs a pro style offense, not an option based or spread  offense ( though it’s a diverse offense that incorporates some elements of the spread) and that’s a huge difference. Secondly, you really need to take a look at how many drops his WRs have this year. It’s incredible.

Edited December 5, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Completion percentages in college are very sketchy. They include so many pitches and dump offs. They don’t take into account what a QB is and isn’t asked to do within a given scheme. I don’t even look at them, personally. Jackson runs a pro style offense, not an option based or spread  offense ( though it’s a diverse offense that incorporates some elements of the spread) and that’s a huge difference. Secondly, you really need to take a look at how many drops his WRs have this year. It’s incredible.

Exactly Yolo!! I think PFF has an adjusted completion % based on drops by his receivers. Everything about Jackson's game improved from his Heisman winning season with the exception of total TDs and that could've been due to the drops. Lamar is a DYNAMIC talent at the QB position and I would be ecstatic if he landed with the Bills. I also haven't heard of any "off the field" issues about him.

[thenorthremembers]

Was cold on Jackson at the start of the year but as the year went on I think he improved as a passer.   Wouldnt trade up for him, but if he falls to the middle of the 1st round and Darnold, Rosen, Rudolph and Mayfield are all gone I'd be ok with it.   I still worry he is too much like our current quarterback but his height is an immediate advantage in comparison with Tyrod.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by thenorthremembers

[Dr. Who]

My order of preference is Rosen/Darnold, Mayfield, Jackson, Allen.  Folks I trust are not high on Allen, but he undoubtedly has arm talent you can't teach.  Mayfield and Jackson are the fellas I think we have a reasonable shot at.

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

I do. Personally I love his "fire" even though it has gotten him into some difficult spots. I see zero percent chance (ok, 5% is realistic) that he ruins his NFL chances through mistakes made off the field.  He will, IMO, mature. I'll take that competitiveness and try to rein it in a bit vs taking JAG with similar talent.

 

He’s the kind of guy most people will like if he’s “your jerk”, but hate him if he’s on the other side. 

[The Jokeman]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Completion percentages in college are very sketchy. They include so many pitches and dump offs. They don’t take into account what a QB is and isn’t asked to do within a given scheme. I don’t even look at them, personally. Jackson runs a pro style offense, not an option based or spread  offense ( though it’s a diverse offense that incorporates some elements of the spread) and that’s a huge difference. Secondly, you really need to take a look at how many drops his WRs have this year. It’s incredible.

Yet he's been compared to Michael Vick which to me is not a good thing, as Vick (like Tyrod) was a great athlete but a below average QB when it comes to passing the ball. 

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

Yet he's been compared to Michael Vick which to me is not a good thing, as Vick (like Tyrod) was a great athlete but a below average QB when it comes to passing the ball. 

Hmmm not a good comparison but he is fast. The comparison I have seen is Marcus Mariota. 

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Hmmm not a good comparison but he is fast. The comparison I have seen is Marcus Mariota. 

If he's a Mariota than I'll gladly take him. 

[The Now Moment]

He makes me hesitant but his constant improvement has mad me feel better about him.  He improved his passing this year.  However, I think he'd struggle in the NFL for a little to start his career.

[TigerJ]

I haven't really narrowed down my college QB interests yet.  I'm going to be watching the off season draft prep process with a lot of interest though.  I suspect Rosen and Darnold are the least likely to drop to the point where Buffalo would have a shot without a trade up.  If Cleveland drafts another QB and the Giants want a shiny new QB, the Bills might not even have a shot with a trade up.  There might be a whole bunch of possible first round QBs taken, however, and the Bills will have a shot at several of them.

[thenorthremembers]

27 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Hmmm not a good comparison but he is fast. The comparison I have seen is Marcus Mariota. 

 

Not sure I like the Mariota comparison either.  Mariota was a better passer coming out, won more of his games and used his feet less.  I think the best comparison I can think of for Jackson right now is probably Colin Kaepernick.   I think he is more dynamic than Kaep, but I dont think he is the player Mariota was coming out of Oregon.

[JohnC]

5 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Yet he's been compared to Michael Vick which to me is not a good thing, as Vick (like Tyrod) was a great athlete but a below average QB when it comes to passing the ball. 

Jackson is much different than Vick on a variety of fronts. Without a doubt both are similar in that they are great athletes and have big arms. But Jackson is more than an athlete. He is an exceptional athlete who wants to be an exceptional qb. While Vick relied on his athleticism he didn't work hard on being a qb. That's not how Jackson is going about his business. He made a major leap in playing the position from his first year to his second year. Petrino is one of the best offensive coaches in the game and he has a very receptive student in Jackson. With Jackson there is still a lot of potential to develop. He may be more of a developmental qb than the top three qb prospects but there is a lot of potential in his game to make it worthwhile to invest in him. 

[Augie]

I’ve focused on college games this year with QB’s I’m intrigued by. Strangely, I’ve seen very little of Jackson this year for various reasons. He’s certainly been electric in college, and I’m eager to see what he becomes. Is he a second rounder? 

[Buffalo716]

22 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Jackson is much different than Vick on a variety of fronts. Without a doubt both are similar in that they are great athletes and have big arms. But Jackson is more than an athlete. He is an exceptional athlete who wants to be an exceptional qb. While Vick relied on his athleticism he didn't work hard on being a qb. That's not how Jackson is going about his business. He made a major leap in playing the position from his first year to his second year. Petrino is one of the best offensive coaches in the game and he has a very receptive student in Jackson. With Jackson there is still a lot of potential to develop. He may be more of a developmental qb than the top three qb prospects but there is a lot of potential in his game to make it worthwhile to invest in him. 

 

Vick worked plenty hard on being a QB when he was at Tech.

 

He played under center. Took 3,5,7 step drops   And had great mechanics

 

its why he went first overall 

[Captain Murica]

I, at first was against Lamar Jackson being drafted as our new QB. Thought he would be a taller version of Tyrod, but after working nights and having some down time. I watched a lot of his games, and came away impressed. They're saying he's a round 2 QB, I'd be happy filling the LB and DT in round 1 if so and taking him in the second. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by Captain Murica

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Vick worked plenty hard on being a QB when he was at Tech.

 

He played under center. Took 3,5,7 step drops   And had great mechanics

 

its why he went first overall 

He didn't work on his game in Atlanta. Once he got the big money the dedication to his profession plummeted. Maybe he was too busy building a dog fighting business? 

1 minute ago, Captain Murica said:

I, at first was against Lamar Jackson being drafted as our new QB. Thought he would be a taller version of Tyrod, but after working nights and having some down time. I watched a lot of his games, and came away impressed. They're saying he's a round 2 QB, I'd be happy filling the LB and DT in round 1 if so and taking him in the second. 

There are too many teams with qb needs. In the current market a second round rated qb is most likely going to be taken in the first round. If the Bills wait until the second round odds are that the top five qbs will be off the board. 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, JohnC said:

He didn't work on his game in Atlanta. Once he got the big money the dedication to his profession plummeted. Maybe he was too busy building a dog fighting business? 

 

Sure you can point out many deficiencies throughout his pro career

 

but coming out he was top notch.

 

great upper and lower body mechanics. One of the crispest overhand deliveries off all time.

 

played under center and was used to pro drops. Had a howitzer attached to his left arm

 

Shows you why it's just as much mental as physical.

 

Very few can sling a football like Michael Vick 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Sure you can point out many deficiencies throughout his pro career

 

but coming out he was top notch.

 

great upper and lower body mechanics. One of the crispest overhand deliveries off all time.

 

played under center and was used to pro drops. Had a howitzer attached to his left arm

 

Shows you why it's just as much mental as physical.

 

Very few can sling a football like Michael Vick 

I agree with you that he was a special talent. The physical talent was unquestionably there. But he didn't work hard on the mental side of the game. In the pros he simply wasn't dedicated to studying the game and advancing his game. I have seen him make 50 yard rope throws into a narrow window. But the pro game for a qb is so much a mental endeavor (as you stated). You have to work as hard, if not more, on that aspect of the game to be a success. He wasn't a failure as a qb but he could have been so much more. 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, JohnC said:

I agree with you that he was a special talent. The physical talent was unquestionably there. But he didn't work hard on the mental side of the game. In the pros he simply wasn't dedicated to studying the game and advancing his game. I have seen him make 50 yard rope throws into a narrow window. But the pro game for a qb is so much a mental endeavor (as you stated). You have to work as hard, if not more, on that aspect of the game to be a success. He wasn't a failure as a qb but he could have been so much more. 

Absolutely 

 

Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers etc would kill for his physical gifts

 

but they honed the nuances of the QB position that Vick never did

 

and he would probably gladly give up his howitzer if he could break down a defense like Tom Brady

[Solomon Grundy]

Here's Matt Waldman's take

 

 

[JohnC]

38 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Here's Matt Waldman's take

 

 

You got my juices flowing watching that clip. As I stated in a prior clip he made a quantum leap from his first year to the second. That tells you not only what he is capable of but that he is willing to put in the work to play the position. Anyone who believes that he is going to last until the second round is going to be late for the bus that already passed them by. 

 

There are a number of top tier qb prospects in this draft. If the organization doesn't seize the opportunity this time it should fold up its tent and get out of the business. Enough is enough!

 

The attached link is a segment on WGR with Jon Ledyard talking about the qb prospects with Schopp and the Bulldog. It is a 20 minute segment with some interesting thoughts on the qb prospects. He does like Mayfield. 

 

http://www.wgr550.com/articles/news/ledyard-mayfield-has-all-makings-franchise-quarterback

Edited December 6, 2017 by JohnC

[TigerJ]

If Cleveland takes a QB again, it could complicate matters.  I assume the Giants are going to complete their house cleaning by adding a new high round one QB.  The other New Jersey team may also pick a QB.  Rosen, Darnold and Jackson could all be gone before Buffalo picks.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

If Cleveland takes a QB again, it could complicate matters.  I assume the Giants are going to complete their house cleaning by adding a new high round one QB.  The other New Jersey team may also pick a QB.  Rosen, Darnold and Jackson could all be gone before Buffalo picks.

That's why you get your arse in gear and trade up with the extra picks that you have in your pocket. If you got coins why not use it? 

[Jay_Fixit]

I wouldn’t touch Jackson before round 3. And the Mariota comparison is terrible. Mariota was much more polished of a passer. 

 

Jackson has all the talent to succeed but I don’t trust a guy who’s in a great offensive system and is barely scraping the 60% completion rate.

 

Not to mention 57.4% over 1055 career attempts.

 

 

[OldTimer1960]

I would be happy if they could get Jackson or Mayfield, but I think they will have to trade up for a shot at either.

[MAJBobby]

Lamar has grown on me this year. He did alot to improve his pocket play. And i also think there is still alot of room for growth in him

[JohnC]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 8:05 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

I like Baker ther but like Lamar too. Rudolph is the guy that I don’t want.

I still believe because of the demand that the Bills will need to give up some draft assets to get one of these two qbs. I'll happily take either one of them. Baker is more ready but Jackson has some physical assets that are unmatched. I'll go so far as saying if the Bills select Mayfield he will be the starter on day one. That would be fine with me.  

[MAJBobby]

I think Jackson likely will be the 4th QB taken after

 

Darnold

Rosen

Allen (going to go alot higher than fans think)

[Solomon Grundy]

On December 6, 2017 at 7:28 PM, Jay_Fixit said:

I wouldn’t touch Jackson before round 3. And the Mariota comparison is terrible. Mariota was much more polished of a passer. 

 

Jackson has all the talent to succeed but I don’t trust a guy who’s in a great offensive system and is barely scraping the 60% completion rate.

 

Not to mention 57.4% over 1055 career attempts.

 

 

Jay, I'm gonna Fix your post. PFF has adjusted Jackson's comp pct to 70% based on drops by his wideouts.

22 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I think Jackson likely will be the 4th QB taken after

 

Darnold

Rosen

Allen (going to go alot higher than fans think)

If Jackson is in the Bills reach they should go grab him. He, too me, is the reincarnation of Randall Cunningham 

[MAJBobby]

10 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Jay, I'm gonna Fix your post. PFF has adjusted Jackson's comp pct to 70% based on drops by his wideouts.

If Jackson is in the Bills reach they should go grab him. He, too me, is the reincarnation of Randall Cunningham 

 

 

As much as i hate Comp% trying to he used to tell me accuracy of a QB and passing ability be careful with PFF too they LOVE Jackson 

[BuffaloBill]

Is he all that different than Tyrod?  A running QB that may be too short and too small.  

[Luka]

The question is, do you love his ability as a passer or a rusher more? He is an extremely dynamic runner, almost McCoy like in his ability to jump cut. As a team, are you willing to utilize that talent until the wheels fall off? How effective is his ability to run going to be at the next level? He's a more accurate passer than Tyrod for sure. When he does throw he does it with anticipation and has good placement. What worries me is that when presented with any kind of pressure or tight coverage, he's running. The offense you'd have to design for Tyrod to succeed, is the same one you'll need for Jackson to be successful.