Gronk committed deliberate, intentional, and defenseless criminal assault with his metal elbow brace

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

I agree with this.  My knee-jerk reaction was to toss him from the game, fine him and suspend him for a game.  But I like the idea of a suspension for the remainder of the regular season and a mammoth fine.

I'd add in at least one post-season game suspension too. It's just unbelievably malicious watching that replay. Say a five game suspension in total which would go into the Pats first playoff game.

[folz]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

An elbow brace isn’t a deadly weapon. Stop being ridiculous. It was a dirty play and I hope he gets suspended but get real if you think he should be charged with a crime.

 

I don't think Gronk should be charged criminally (big suspension and fine yes), but in the court of law, anything can be considered a deadly weapon if used as such. A car, a knife, a bat, a lead pipe, a statue, a chair, etc. can all be considered deadly weapons if they are wielded as such. Gronk did use the brace as a weapon.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

You guys know he isn't even going to be suspended, right?

 

yes, we do, which is why the bills should sign three guys off the street whose ONLY job in two weeks is to get gronk carted off in a neck brace in an ambulance.

 

[corta765]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

You don't get it, do you?  All of those Burfict hits and the one by Kiko occurred as part of a football play.  Gronkowski's assault occurred when White was lying on the ground, well after he was tagged by another Patriot.  

 

Makes no difference to me dirty is dirty whether during the play or after and stupidity happens regardless. If we are going to start saying people should be arrested for assault after plays the same can be applied during the game. It was an awful dirty play that occurred in the long list of ones done by players in the NFL and sports in general. If he receives a one game suspension or none then yea I'll be mad as hell. But otherwise if he gets a few games then it is what it is from there. I would expect the Bills to probably take some liberties comes the 24th though and if I was coach of the Bills I'd tell my players to do as much.

[YoloinOhio]

14 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

Just watch the Steelers Bengals WC game for starters from 2 years ago for starters. Burfict alone has a highlight real worth of hits.

 

Kiko Alonso on Joe Flacco a few weeks ago for starters or as I said above the entire Bengals Steelers WC game was a straight joke by both teams.

The hit was after the play was over. Were those hits also after the play was over, or were they “dirty hits” on the field of play?

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I'd add in at least one post-season game suspension too. It's just unbelievably malicious watching that replay. Say a five game suspension in total which would go into the Pats first playoff game.

 

That's never going to happen.  Gronk has been squeaky clean his entire career.  He screwed up.  But I don't think an unprecedented suspension is in order.  Players get far less for actually assaulting women who aren't wearing pads and helmets.

[Bangarang]

5 minutes ago, folz said:

 

I don't think Gronk should be charged criminally (big suspension and fine yes), but in the court of law, anything can be considered a deadly weapon if used as such. A car, a knife, a bat, a lead pipe, a statue, a chair, etc. can all be considered deadly weapons if they are wielded as such. Gronk did use the brace as a weapon.

 

 

https://definitions.uslegal.com/d/deadly-weapon/

 

Maybe the lawyers here can chime in but in terms of law enforcement, an elbow brace doesn’t meet the criteria of being considered a deadly weapon. Maybe deadly instrument but you’re still probably reaching.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Bangarang

[Jerry Jabber]

Rob Gronkowski is the “Cowboy” Bob Orton of the NFL. For those that didn’t follow the WWE (then WWF) back in the 80’s, “Cowboy” Bob Orton wore a cast on his arm for two years and used to nail opponents with it when the ref wasn’t looking. Gronk wears this ridiculous oversized arm brace (which covers 2/3 of his arm), uses it as a weapon to push off. I used to root for Gronkowski because he’s from the Buffalo area as well as being Polish, but after seeing him deliver a vicious elbow with that arm brace to the back of White’s head, I think he’s a piece of trash and deserves to be suspended (multiple games) and fined heavily. Plus, he should not be able to wear that ridiculously oversized arm brace anymore.  

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

An elbow brace isn’t a deadly weapon.

 

Wrong. In court anything can be considered a deadly weapon. I don’t think some of you guys understand how dangerous this hit was. It was not just a late hit or incidental contact during a football play. He threw his full body weight onto a player’s head while leading with a metal brace. That’s a crime. It doesn’t matter if they’re playing a game.

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

That's never going to happen.  Gronk has been squeaky clean his entire career.  He screwed up.  But I don't think an unprecedented suspension is in order.  Players get far less for actually assaulting women who aren't wearing pads and helmets.

 

When they're caught on video, it ends their careers.

[mannc]

Just now, corta765 said:

 

Makes no difference to me dirty is dirty whether during the play or after and stupidity happens regardless. If we are going to start saying people should be arrested for assault after plays the same can be applied during the game. It was an awful dirty play that occurred in the long list of ones done by players in the NFL and sports in general. If he receives a one game suspension or none then yea I'll be mad as hell. But otherwise if he gets a few games then it is what it is from there. I would expect the Bills to probably take some liberties comes the 24th though and if I was coach of the Bills I'd tell my players to do as much.

It makes a huge difference.  It can mean the difference between a mere unnecessary roughness penalty and a criminal act.  You've been asked to name the five other actions that you believe were worse than one Gronk did and all you did was refer to a bunch of dirty hits that happened during the course of a football play.  None of them comes close.

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, corta765 said:

If we are going to start saying people should be arrested for assault after plays the same can be applied during the game.

 

This shows your extreme ignorance of the legal system. Quit while you’re ahead.

[Gugny]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

When they're caught on video, it ends their careers.

 

As it should.

 

What Gronk did does not compare.  Not even in the same universe.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

That's never going to happen.  Gronk has been squeaky clean his entire career.  He screwed up.  But I don't think an unprecedented suspension is in order.  Players get far less for actually assaulting women who aren't wearing pads and helmets.

Unless video surfaces of the assault, then said player is suspended indefinitely (Ray Rice). We have video of this and it was an unprecedented act on the field while play was stopped. I don't see anything wrong with 5 games. I know it won't happen but it's wishful thinking.

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I'd add in at least one post-season game suspension too. It's just unbelievably malicious watching that replay. Say a five game suspension in total which would go into the Pats first playoff game.

He should be done for the year, including the playoffs. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

As it should.

 

What Gronk did does not compare.  Not even in the same universe.

 

So then asking for just 5 games is just. We aren't asking to end his career or suspend him indefinitely. 

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

As it should.

 

What Gronk did does not compare.  Not even in the same universe.

 

Agreed. Which is why he shouldn't have his career taken away, just suspended for a significant amount of time.

[Paulus]

20 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

Broncos vs Cam Newton season opener in 2016 especially Stewart on Newton. Or Kiko on Flacco this season was far worse to me.

I think you're missing the point that no football was being played when Gronk did his thing. 

[corta765]

6 minutes ago, mannc said:

It makes a huge difference.  It can mean the difference between a mere unnecessary roughness penalty and a criminal act.  You've been asked to name the five other actions that you believe were worse than one Gronk did and all you did was refer to a bunch of dirty hits that happened during the course of a football play.  None of them comes close.

 

BS. I play hockey and have seen guys run another during a game with a clear intent to injure. I have seen the same after the whistle is blowing or a stick swung to injure. So no I don't separate the game from when the play happens and after because in both cases people act like complete jack a**es. Bertuzzi straight up mugged Moore during the game while the happening and broke his neck.

 

I've said repeatedly Gronks play was stupid and dangerous. I do not believe it was done with intent to injure however, I do believe he wanted to hit him because he was pissed off he even said as much after.. That doesn't matter because the outcome took our guy out and he should be suspended 3-5 games. Burfict's hit on Brown could've killed or broke his neck and his track record says as much that he is a straight thug when he plays.

Edited December 4, 2017 by corta765

[Runninrams]

oh the irony in the reactions here is amazing.

 

didnt half of you just spend a week asking someone to "just take the 15 yards" and intentionally injure Brady??  the second someone takes the exact shot you were calling for you start tripping over yourselves crying and complaining about the "audacity" and "respect"

 

 

[Bangarang]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Wrong. In court anything can be considered a deadly weapon. I don’t think some of you guys understand how dangerous this hit was. It was not just a late hit or incidental contact during a football play. He threw his full body weight onto a player’s head while leading with a metal brace. That’s a crime. It doesn’t matter if they’re playing a game.

 

No, not wrong. We are talking about charging him with the crime of assault with a deadly weapon which wouldn’t happen because an elbow brace isn’t a deadly weapon according to the law. You can try calling it whatever you want in court but if he were charged by the police it wouldn’t be for using a deadly weapon.

 

its a moot point anyway because the idea of trying to charge him with a crime is silly.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Bangarang

[yungmack]

2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Except they are willing participants expecting violent attacks.

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Agreed. Which is why he shouldn't have his career taken away, just suspended for a significant amount of time.

 

It's his first unnecessary roughness penalty since 2014 and the 2nd of his entire career.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GronRo00/penalties

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Gugny

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, corta765 said:

I've said repeatedly Gronks play was stupid and dangerous. I do not believe it was done with intent to injure however, I do believe he wanted to hit him because he was pissed off. 

 

I don't even think intent to injure or not even matters. Just can't have a bozo like that out on the field. Burfcit shouldn't even be in the league anymore. League has some series issues they need to clean up.

[corta765]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This shows your extreme ignorance of the legal system. Quit while you’re ahead.

 

Funny because I have seen hits during plays while a game is occurring that are deliberate and malicious which did bring it far more severe action.

[Paulus]

 

That guy got a criminal charge, no?

 

The incident resulted in injuries so severe that they ended Moore's professional hockey career, and they also resulted in criminal assault charges against Bertuzzi. A civil lawsuit was also launched against Bertuzzi and his team, the Canucks. Later, on August 19, 2014, it was reported the civil trial ended with all parties agreeing to a confidential settlement. -wiki

Edited December 4, 2017 by Paulus

[Wayne Arnold]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

It's his first unnecessary roughness penalty since 2014 and the 2nd of his entire career.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GronRo00/penalties

 

 

Not sure what your point is. No matter how egregious an act, as long as it's your first time you should be okay?

[fridge]

2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Preston Brown should have ruined him instead of crying to the ref.

[yungmack]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Oh, he will be. 

I believe the officials should also be suspended or even fired.

[corta765]

1 minute ago, Paulus said:

 

That guy got a criminal charge, no?

 

Correct because it was a deliberate hit that was premeditated by a previous incident the NHL bff'd badly.

[Gugny]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Not sure what your point is. No matter how egregious an act, as long as it's your first time you should be okay?

 

Yes, that's my point.  Even though I agreed with Royale that he should be suspended for the rest of the regular season.

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

 

I've said repeatedly Gronks play was stupid and dangerous. I do not believe it was done with intent to injure however, I do believe he wanted to hit him because he was pissed off he even said as much after.. That doesn't matter because the outcome took our guy out and he should be suspended 3-5 games. Burfict's hit on Brown could've killed or broke his neck and his track record says as much that he is a straight thug when he plays.

How did you reach this conclusion?  We don't have to read peoples' minds; intent is inferred from their actions.  If I punch someone in the face, the law will correctly presume that I intended to injure him.

 

You don't think Gronkowski's hit could have done the same to White? 

[fridge]

1 minute ago, corta765 said:

 

Correct because it was a deliberate hit that was premeditated by a previous incident the NHL bff'd badly.

 

It also ended that guys career.

[Paulus]

Just now, corta765 said:

 

Correct because it was a deliberate hit that was premeditated by a previous incident the NHL bff'd badly.

Lmao, what a load of crap. It was because it happened maliciously and outside the scope of the game. 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Paulus said:

 

That guy got a criminal charge, no?

 

I believe Moore was unconscious on the ice for 10 minutes and suffered a broken neck....never played again.

I bit more serious than White.

[Dorkington]

1 minute ago, fridge said:

 

Preston Brown should have ruined him instead of crying to the ref.

As it is Hughes got in trouble for verbalizing something to the ref, so it's for the best that our players didn't physically respond. 

[folz]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

No, not wrong. We are talking about charging him with the crime of assault with a deadly weapon which wouldn’t happen because an elbow brace isn’t a deadly weapon according to the law. You can try calling it whatever you want in court but if he were charged by the police it wouldn’t be for using a deadly weapon.

 

From what I can find in a quick Google search, each state has their own laws on what a deadly weapon is and will usually list such weapons (firearms, knives, brass knuckles, etc.).

However, people have been charged with assault with a deadly weapon from things like shopping carts and a frozen fish. Every state is different, but it appears (as has happened in a number of cases), if the alleged weapon is not on the state's list, it is up to the jury to decide if it was indeed wielded as a deadly weapon. So, in one case an elbow brace might be ruled out as a deadly weapon, but in another case, a jury may decide that it was indeed used as a lethal weapon and can convict as such.

 

Any lawyers on this board who can clarify?

[fridge]

Just now, Dorkington said:

As it is Hughes got in trouble for verbalizing something to the ref, so it's for the best that our players didn't physically respond. 

 

I could care less about a 15 yard penalty with the game over.  "As it is" the refs found a way penalize us more than them after that anyways.

[RoyBatty is alive]

13 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

As it should.

 

What Gronk did does not compare.  Not even in the same universe.

She was got cold cocked in the head by a fist, Gronk elbowed they guy on the ground in the head with a metal brace, yes i think they are in the same universe.  Both were defenseless.  Difference is she was a female, he was an athlete with some protective gear.  I dont think you would have that sentiment if Gronk broke his beck and paralyzed him

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

And so would every boxer and MMA fighter.  Stupid analogy.

No, it's not stupid at all. The correct analogy would be this: MMA fighter, after a round is clearly over, picks up a folding chair and strikes his opponent with it, WWE style. That is clearly outside the scope of the game/rules.  Criminal liability is a stretch, but of course that's fact dependent. If a full minute had passed and Gronk went after Tre with the metal elbow brace on the sidelines, it would be pretty clear cut. So it's in a gray area that would be very unlikely to result in prosecution, since the prosecutor would have to prove intent to inflict a late hit rather than confusion about when the play ended (and with a reasonable doubt standard). Civil liability is also a possibility. The only thing that stops that from happening is a Tre type victim is hesitant to sue an opponent since that would be frowned upon by everyone in the NFL world, including the league, ownership, teammates, and even the union. But there's no legal impediment to suing that I'm aware of. Again, it would be a question of proof. 

Unlikely though it is, we also can't discount the possibility that a Patriot (or other visiting team) hating publicity seeking DA might someday go the criminal route. Again, I see nothing that would stop it. It's workplace violence, just in an unusual workplace ....