49ers are the trade target

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Well said. This might blow people's minds since you can only compare players of the same race, but I think Bridgewater is Chad Pennington but possibly with a worse arm.  Seems like a great kid but will leaving you wanting more as a starter.

 

at this point, what's the point of playing a vet next year? To win 6-8 games and hurt your draft status. Draft a first rounder and give him e wry shot to win the job.

Pennington is a really good comparison imo. Well done

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, yungmack said:

You see no red flags with a 5' 11'' QB who exhibits some Ryan Leaf-like characteristics? 

I have no qualms about drafting a 5'11" qb who can play. If you have an aversion to a short qb who is one of the most productive players in the college game then you wouldn't have liked Drew Brees. Comparing Mayfield to Ryan Leaf is an off the wall comparison. I don't want to be disrespectful but it's simply crazy talk. 

[Domdab99]

Trading up for this class is so so bad....I'd rather keep our picks, get a LB or WR or DT or two...and stick with Tyrod.

[Kelly the Dog]

I dont think there is any question Rosen is going first overall to Cleveland. Darnold is likely staying in school. None of the other guys are worth three number ones, which it would take to get up to 1-4. 

 

The question is how good of a poker player is Beane. Mostly in the reading of other players in the game. If he is going to trade up for Jackson or Mayfield he needs to know how close other teams are to pulling that same trigger. 

 

I would be ok with either of those guys but they are both serious risks. 50-50 franchise guys and likely less than that depending on your definition. 

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I dont think there is any question Rosen is going first overall to Cleveland. Darnold is likely staying in school. None of the other guys are worth three number ones, which it would take to get up to 1-4. 

 

The question is how good of a poker player is Beane. Mostly in the reading of other players in the game. If he is going to trade up for Jackson or Mayfield he needs to know how close other teams are to pulling that same trigger. 

 

I would be ok with either of those guys but they are both serious risks. 50-50 franchise guys and likely less than that depending on your definition. 

You have to ask yourself if this is the best time for this franchise to draft a qb. It has a surplus of picks and there are maybe 3 to 4 very good qb prospects. I have no qualms with selecting either Jackson or Mayfield. I think that Mayfield will be more ready to play sooner while I see Jackson requiring more time for development. I agree with you that it will take three first round picks for either Jackson or Mayfield. I'm high on both of them. 

 

I don't see this franchise committing another year to Taylor. That doesn't mean I would be adverse to it. But the time has come to take some decisive action. If whatever qb that we select doesn't work out then you keep at it until it gets done.  

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I'm willing to bet against your last sentence.

 

If the Bills are smart they sign Bridgewater in free agency and choose a QB in the first.

 

 

Why??

 

What is Bridgewater really good at?  His numbers have been worse than TT's and he's brittle.

[Kelly the Dog]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You have to ask yourself if this is the best time for this franchise to draft a qb. It has a surplus of picks and there are maybe 3 to 4 very good qb prospects. I have no qualms with selecting either Jackson or Mayfield. I think that Mayfield will be more ready to play sooner while I see Jackson requiring more time for development. I agree with you that it will take three first round picks for either Jackson or Mayfield. I'm high on both of them. 

 

I don't see this franchise committing another year to Taylor. That doesn't mean I would be adverse to it. But the time has come to take some decisive action. If whatever qb that we select doesn't work out then you keep at it until it gets done.  

Yep. We need to be aggressive. We need to go get the one the evaluators like the most. 

 

The problem is we don't know if we can trust the evaluators, we are going to have to overpay, we are going to risk our next three seasons on a guy that probably has a 30-40% chance of succeeding. We have a ton of other holes to fill. McDermott is a conservative defensive coach that is all but betting his career on a trade up for a risky offensive guy he will need to let loose. 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Kelly the Dog

[Coach Tuesday]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I'll give you credit for having an opinion that literally no NFL executive would have. That said, the Bears traded up to draft Mitchell instead of just taking Watson.

 

Wouldnt be the first time and I don’t claim to know what I’m looking at.  When I watch Rosen I see a QB who is stiff, hesitates, and has odd technique.  I’m not the least bit impressed with him.  He reminds me of Mike Glennon.  I watch Mayfield and see a guy who can play in any offense, who is hyper accurate while on the move, and who elevated his teammates.  He reminds me of Aaron Rogers.

[Wayne Arnold]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Why??

 

What is Bridgewater really good at?  His numbers have been worse than TT's and he's brittle.

 

He's good at winning, for one.

[billieve420]

 

36 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I have no qualms about drafting a 5'11" qb who can play. If you have an aversion to a short qb who is one of the most productive players in the college game then you wouldn't have liked Drew Brees. Comparing Mayfield to Ryan Leaf is an off the wall comparison. I don't want to be disrespectful but it's simply crazy talk. 

 

Dude has a number of red flags and teams will be afraid to take a chance on potentially the next Johnny Manziel/Ryan leaf.  How long did either of them last. If they draft him late 1 or early 2 and don't give the farm up to do it wouldn't complain. However, I don't see him being a fit with this coach for one and the current offensive staff as currently constructed. Russell Wilson and Drew Brees are the exceptions to the rule and not the norm. So for me if I am drafting a QB in the first he better check off as many boxes as possible to give me the best chance of succeeding. 

 

Offseason interviews will be huge for a guy like Mayfield as teams will probably be split on him. I hope he does everything from playing at the Senior Bowl, to throwing at the Combine and Pro days. He needs to keep his nose clean between now and draft time while showing he is committed to changing his image.

 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/college/bleacher-report-baker-mayfield-among-nfl-hopefuls-with-red-flags/494CQbX7oaEVL1rEKZ8CXL/

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L6aZ7a8oIg

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

He's good at winning, for one.

 

 

No, his team is good at winning....without him.

 

He went 6-6 and 11-5.

 

Big deal.  He doesn't throw much and has an INT of 2-3%.  He doesn't run (8 fumbles on 44 carries in his "good" year).

 

This guy is pure hype.   Keene's far superior play is keeping Bridgewater from a true career ending injury.  He's a feel good story just to make it back to the sideline.  But he's one of the most underwhelming starters in a while, when compared to the hype.

[Stevie Ray]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That I could see (unless they like Beathard). They could go down to 10 or so and try to add Sutton (for example) while recouping that 2nd and a 1st next year. They can swing at a guy like Ferguson in the 3rd.

Monster

I think Ryan Ferguson will surprise a lot of people.

[Wayne Arnold]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

No, his team is good at winning....without him.

 

He went 6-6 and 11-5.

 

Big deal.  He doesn't throw much and has an INT of 2-3%.  He doesn't run (8 fumbles on 44 carries in his "good" year).

 

This guy is pure hype.   Keene's far superior play is keeping Bridgewater from a true career ending injury.  He's a feel good story just to make it back to the sideline.  But he's one of the most underwhelming starters in a while, when compared to the hype.

 

He's had one full season as a starter in this league and he led the team to 11 wins. He has a lot of untapped potential.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

He's had one full season as a starter in this league and he led the team to 11 wins. He has a lot of untapped potential.

 

 

His stats in that season were little different than his shorter season.  TT is better right now.

[Chadwick Bay Chad]

Rodney peete really the guy was worse than Tyrod. And Carson is an average qb

[atlbillsfan1975]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

That was me  We could probably stay put and take him. He has gotten better every year in college, it was the same story on Russell Wilson. Because of Wilson’s success a QB like Lamar Jackson will never fall that far again. He can pass accurately from the pocket, he is not just a run-first passer. Think Deshaun Watson but more accurate with the ball. Would fit a modern creative NFL offense which is why I am sure we will not go after him, but that’s who I want.

I will admit I have seen very little of Jackson. I did see enough of Watson to know he was going to be a good pro. Anyone who can beat Saban in the NC game the second time, is good. 

[bobobonators]

When was the last time a team traded the farm for a player and the trade worked out for that team?

[JaCrispy]

Goff and Wentz?

[Mat68]

Rosen has the most talent.  Throws the best ball and hits guys in stride with accuracy.  I would pick up Taylor's option and trade up for Rosen.  2 firsts and a 3rd probably does it.  I would start with the earliest pick this year and 1 next year with a 3rd this year and see where it goes.  Rosen looks to have seperated a good amount from the field.  I also would give Indy a call.  I would offer a 1st and a 2nd this year for luck.  After the owners comments, they could be willing to go in another direction if he falls for Lamar Jackson.

8 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

When was the last time a team traded the farm for a player and the trade worked out for that team?

 

7 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Goff and Wentz?

 

There you have it.  Looks like both seem to work pretty well.  The Falcons moving up for Julio Jones.  Imo history shows that if the player becomes who you think they will it works out for the team that got the best player.  

[bobobonators]

9 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Goff and Wentz?

 

Neither of those trades involved more than 2 first round picks to move up i dont recall. Id have to look. 

 

For us to move into the top 3 would require both 1’s this yr; a 1 next year; and additional picks. 

Unless we lose out the rest of the yr then yeh the trade is more doable. 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, bobobonators said:

 

Neither of those trades involved more than 2 first round picks to move up i dont recall. Id have to look. 

 

For us to move into the top 3 would require both 1’s this yr; a 1 next year; and additional picks. 

Unless we lose out the rest of the yr then yeh the trade is more doable. 

Julio

[JaCrispy]

Just now, bobobonators said:

 

Neither of those trades involved more than 2 first round picks to move up i dont recall. Id have to look. 

 

For us to move into the top 3 would require both 1’s this yr; a 1 next year; and additional picks. 

Perhaps, because the demand is high and the talent appears to be there

[bobobonators]

5 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Rosen has the most talent.  Throws the best ball and hits guys in stride with accuracy.  I would pick up Taylor's option and trade up for Rosen.  2 firsts and a 3rd probably does it.  I would start with the earliest pick this year and 1 next year with a 3rd this year and see where it goes.  Rosen looks to have seperated a good amount from the field.  I also would give Indy a call.  I would offer a 1st and a 2nd this year for luck.  After the owners comments, they could be willing to go in another direction if he falls for Lamar Jackson.

 

 

There you have it.  Looks like both seem to work pretty well.  The Falcons moving up for Julio Jones.  Imo history shows that if the player becomes who you think they will it works out for the team that got the best player.  

 

And you also have trading the farm for dickerson. Fail. Trading the farm for walker. Fail. Trading the farm for ricky williams. Fail. 

 

Bills’ most recent gem at trading up into

the top 5 was Sammy Watkins no? Fail. 

 

Im not opposed to trading up just saying that trading up into the top 3 from where we’ll be will take an insane amount of picks. More than it took for either Wentz and Goff. 

[Chicken Boo]

I'm thoroughly impressed by this board. Rosen is the right answer.

 

Want nothing to do with Darnold, Jackson or Mayfield.  NOTHING!

[707BillsFan]

8 hours ago, BmarvB said:

There's too many other holes that need to be filled on the roster. I wouldn't move up. Wait it out and see who falls down to us.

 

I'm not reading 8 pages of people speculating. This is how I feel. Keep the dang draft picks and pick the best available at that current time. We have too many holes to fill. Rosen is the guy, but unless someone starts spreading some bad info on him (hint, hint), he won't fall to our pick. Mayfield is like 5'11" ... no short QB's. 

Edited November 24, 2017 by 707BillsFan

[Chicken Boo]

7 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t think that Dennison is back. That’s part of the reason that my list looks like it does. He was the driving force behind the QB switch I think. McDermott gave him what he wanted and it failed in epic fashion. McCoy was McDermott’s first choice and he’s back out there. The offense will be different next year. 

 

I do do agree though that if he is here it will be a more traditional pocket passer.

He’s taken huge steps this year. He’s the most improved QB in the country. Lamar is Watson with a better skill set IMO. He has a bigger arm and is a better runner. Watson is a gamer though (I guess Lamar is too). He is the guy ascending. He may end up as high as 1 if the recent mocks are any indication. 

 

Lamar Jackson is a supreme talent.  A damn good fotball player, but he is not an NFL QB.  

 

As far as playing the QB position, he is nowhere near the level of Watson and there is nothing that suggests it.

[yungmack]

5 hours ago, Dunkirk Don said:

Josh Allen is the only one worth drafting.  Sam Darnold will fail like all the other usc qbs. The only usc that had mild success was Pat Haden.  

Josh Rosen is a California dude and won’t make it the cold

Mayfield is a punk 

Yeah, those Cali QBs can't take the cold, like Brady in NE and Rodgers in GB and Palmer in Cinci.

Edited November 25, 2017 by yungmack

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, billieve420 said:

If Darnold doesn't come out. Cleveland will probably draft Rosen# 1 at which point I wouldn't be interested in trading that far up for any of the other QBs.

 I guarantee you Darnold will stay in school and Rosen  will be the #1 for Cleveland. If we go 6-10 We should sneak into the top 10 and Draft Mason Rudolph. Do NOT trade up for Rosen.....

[yungmack]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

I have no qualms about drafting a 5'11" qb who can play. If you have an aversion to a short qb who is one of the most productive players in the college game then you wouldn't have liked Drew Brees. Comparing Mayfield to Ryan Leaf is an off the wall comparison. I don't want to be disrespectful but it's simply crazy talk. 

Suggest you look into his off field behavior, not to mention some of jerky on field actions. Put that together with his squirt-like stature and he earns a "pass" from me.

[RiotAct]

10 hours ago, rant_and_go_returns said:

Best case is TT wakes up and becomes a gamer. Win at KC and we stop talking about his replacement.

 

Sadly, I think that ship has already sailed.

[bobobonators]

6 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

Sadly, I think that ship has already sailed.

I agree. No matter what TT does or doesnt do probably 60% of the fanbase has mentally moved on from him. Im not saying those 60% are wrong; it is what it is. 

[The Frankish Reich]

3 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Goff and Wentz?

That was easy. 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Yep. We need to be aggressive. We need to go get the one the evaluators like the most. 

 

The problem is we don't know if we can trust the evaluators, we are going to have to overpay, we are going to risk our next three seasons on a guy that probably has a 30-40% chance of succeeding. We have a ton of other holes to fill. McDermott is a conservative defensive coach that is all but betting his career on a trade up for a risky offensive guy he will need to let loose. 

The more I see of Mayfield the more appealing I find him to be. I'm not advocating for using most of our accumulated picks for a qb because as you said there are so many needs. But if we can get the short qb I'm all for it. Regardless how the qbs are ranked there are risks involved in drafting a qb with a high pick. 

 

As far as McDermott being a conservative defensive coach that is not his role although that is where his biases are. He is a  head coach who is the most dominant person in deciding who to take in the draft. If he plays it too safe and doesn't come out of this draft with a credible qb then as far as I am concerned he is missing an opportunity and making a big mistake. As I have said in other posts at this point I'm not wedded to any qb prospect. But my leanings are toward the rambunctious short qb. 

 

[Tatonka68]

4 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

Trading up for this class is so so bad....I'd rather keep our picks, get a LB or WR or DT or two...and stick with Tyrod.

Same philosophy Bills have used for the last 17 years. It worked so well hasn't it?  The Bills need a NFL caliber QB not a joke.

[JaCrispy]

1 minute ago, Tatonka68 said:

Same philosophy Bills have used for the last 17 years. It worked so well hasn't it?  The Bills need a NFL caliber QB not a joke.

I gotta agree with this...it is time we rip the band-aid off...it will be less painful that way

[Mat68]

The team needs a franchise QB.  After the trades Buffalo now has plenty of ammo for a QB early in the draft or capspace sign or trade for one.  The way the season has devolved by seasons end everyone will know the starting Qb in 2018 is not on tje roster.

[Paulus]

Rosen will be one. Darnold will be the target, if he comes out, which he will. 

 

Bills will probably have to give up 3 firsts, to move up to 2d. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

19 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Rudolph is the guy that I don’t want. His game feels antiquated compared to the way that the NFL is going. He’s too limited for my liking.

 

Which way is the nfl going? Pocket passers are still king.

[ALF]

I just hope the new scouting staff , Beane and McD make the right choice. 

[Wayne Arnold]

I still do not get the Rosen love.

 

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