Punt75 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 A. Tyrod makes them look better because of his escapability and running ability B. McCoy has big running games when he gets yardage all on his own [squirts through a small hole, makes a LB miss and runs for 30-40 yards] C. McCoy has 'bad' games when the line can't open up even a small hole D. Eric Wood is VERY overrated, can't power block, needs help with pass blocking and is a member of the in-house veteran group that 'works' with the HC E. John Miller can't get on the field anymore after starting 28 games in '15 and '16 at RG. He was a third round pick of the Bills. F. Jordan Mills is extremely weak at RT. He was a 5th round pick of the Bears and later was with the Lions. G. Vladimir Ducasse at RG was a former 2nd Round pick by the Jets. Buffalo is his 5th team in 8 NFL seasons H. Why isn't Ryan Groy playing? At Center or Guard! I. Dion Dawkins, a rookie, is the best of the group J. Incognito will be 35 next season but still 2nd best This entire group is one of the worst in the NFL. They've become known as a run-blocking group only because of McCoy. This front has to be blown up and re-built before any progress can be made for the entire team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsTT0821 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I completely agree. Taylor has masked a huge problem on this team but a pocket passer can not operate behind this line 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Hix Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 The Oline is terrible, especially the right side and Wood. I can't believe they extended Wood this summer but whatever. And it doesn't help that Dennison runs a zone blocking scheme that fails to play to the few strengths this group has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I agree 100% Shady and Taylor make this O-Line look like they are amazing run blockers and average pass blockers. The truth is they are the worst O-Line in the NFL. O-Line needs to be completely blown up, the only survivors should be rookies and maybe Glenn. I would honestly move Glenn to Guard, it might help him stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptide Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said: The Oline is terrible, especially the right side and Wood. I can't believe they extended Wood this summer but whatever. And it doesn't help that Dennison runs a zone blocking scheme that fails to play to the few strengths this group has. This is my issue with McDermott and his "win now and for the future" philosophy. If you were really trying to win now, you would change the scheme up to fit the current players and then next year change the scheme to fit those players. They are just simply running their own scheme and expecting players to run it well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Hardly the worse O-Line in the league. Its the same group that led the league in rushing 2 years in a row. True, Taylors running ability skews the numbers in a more positive light but still impressive nonetheless. Its the zone blocking scheme that has caused the issues in the run game. Same old Bills sticking square pegs in round holes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Hix Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Steptide said: This is my issue with McDermott and his "win now and for the future" philosophy. If you were really trying to win now, you would change the scheme up to fit the current players and then next year change the scheme to fit those players. They are just simply running their own scheme and expecting players to run it well McD must feel like it makes more long term sense to implement and develop his schemes immediately. I think the "win now" talk was mostly lip service until the Bills somehow started 5-2, then McBeane conceded and made the KB move as it didn't mortgage too much of the future. The focus now must solely be on teaching and development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Agreed. Funny cause lots of people think TT makes the line look bad but I think its the exact opposite like you stated. Yes he takes a lot of sacks, but he also avoids multiple sacks every single game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 In a perfect draft they get a QB, Then O line, D Line, O Line, D Line with those first five picks. They all pan out and contribute immediately and suddenly this team is 3 wins better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: Agreed. Funny cause lots of people think TT makes the line look bad but I think its the exact opposite like you stated. Yes he takes a lot of sacks, but he also avoids multiple sacks every single game He’s both a gift and curse to the o-line. He nails them out but also takes sacks he probably shouldn’t and makes them look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Bangarang said: He’s both a gift and curse to the o-line. He nails them out but also takes sacks he probably shouldn’t and makes them look bad. Ya I'll agree to that. I think he bails them out slightly more though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Bangarang said: He’s both a gift and curse to the o-line. He nails them out but also takes sacks he probably shouldn’t and makes them look bad. Not really........the sacks are an overrated stat wrt Taylor.........he took a lot of them last year and it didn't keep them from scoring, generating the most big plays in the NFL or not turning the ball over at a historically low level. And they DID NOT have a high amount of 3 and outs(a 2015 Taylor complaint). According to Bill Barnwell Taylor ranks 9th among QB's in the NFL at converting 3rd downs this year..........still not turning the ball over........hmmmmm.........I thought that's what sacks did? Caused 3 and outs and turnovers. I guess not when that QB is Taylor. In the Jets game on ONE DRIVE he converted a 2nd a 24 after a sack......then was sacked again and came within a yard of converting a second and 19 when Matthews fumbled. What some haters and apparently McD and Dennison have lost sight of is that the OL that Rex and Roman took over was known to be AWFUL........they covered it up with scheme and Taylor. Why would you expose these lumbering blockers when you have been given a blueprint on how to cover up 4-5 OL that can't pass block? It's an indictment of the intelligence of McD and Dennison for sure. Edited November 21, 2017 by BADOLBILZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Not really........the sacks are an overrated stat wrt Taylor.........he took a lot of them last year and it didn't keep them from scoring, generating the most big plays in the NFL or not turning the ball over at a historically low level. And they DID NOT have a high amount of 3 and outs(a 2015 Taylor complaint). According to Bill Barnwell Taylor ranks 9th among QB's in the NFL at converting 3rd downs this year..........still not turning the ball over........hmmmmm.........I thought that's what sacks did? Caused 3 and outs and turnovers. I guess not when that QB is Taylor. In the Jets game on ONE DRIVE he converted a 2nd a 24 after a sack......then was sacked again and came within a yard of converting a second and 19 when Matthews fumbled. What some haters and apparently McD and Dennison have lost sight of is that the OL that Rex and Roman took over was known to be AWFUL........they covered it up with scheme and Taylor. Why would you expose these lumbering blockers when you have been given a blueprint on how to cover up 4-5 OL that can't pass block? It's an indictment of the intelligence of McD and Dennison for sure. Was majority of this post intended for someone else? I feel like you are arguing a point I never made. ?♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 If the Bills have entered into future focus mode... I would: Start Henderson at RT now that he can play-you have to make a decision on him Start Groy at RG - the Bills stepped up to keep him by matching the offer sheet...use him on the field The right side of the OL is in full matador mode with pass protection and all the big runs yesterday went to the left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young34 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) I said this exact thing the night before the game, and that Peterman was going to face some serious pressure. Taylor is elusive, and has turned many would-be sacks into positive yardage, just from his ability to escape. This is one of his best qualities as a QB, but an often overlooked one because he's not the traditional Brady/Manning/etc type pocket passer that many Bills fans want. Edited November 21, 2017 by Young34 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 They extended Wood, pulled out their Tyrod and slid in their Peterman. It hasn't worked. The extension for an aging C didnt seem to fit the process. The line has gotten worse since Ducasse went in for Miller and Glenn was sat down for whatever injury it supposedly is. It needs a major overhaul , and many yards that Shady gets are on his own in spite of the poor blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Funny how we changed coaching and offensive scheme and suddenly the entire offensive line that was integral in leading the league in rushing is garbage and needs to be replaced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, billsbackto81 said: Hardly the worse O-Line in the league. Its the same group that led the league in rushing 2 years in a row. True, Taylors running ability skews the numbers in a more positive light but still impressive nonetheless. Its the zone blocking scheme that has caused the issues in the run game. Same old Bills sticking square pegs in round holes. Valid points. We have been missing Glenn much of the season, and Kujo, who backed him up rather capably, is also gone. But yeah, most of the same guys. I agree that Taylor masks some deficiencies of the line, but he also hangs onto the ball too ungodly long much of the time. So it's a bit of a mixed bag there. 6 minutes ago, Dan said: Funny how we changed coaching and offensive scheme and suddenly the entire offensive line that was integral in leading the league in rushing is garbage and needs to be replaced. Noticed that, did you? They were old and garbage and the entire lot of them needed to be replaced under Marrone in 2014, too. Amazing how a scheme that suits the players can rejuvenate their skill. 12 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: They extended Wood, pulled out their Tyrod and slid in their Peterman. It hasn't worked. The extension for an aging C didnt seem to fit the process. The line has gotten worse since Ducasse went in for Miller and Glenn was sat down for whatever injury it supposedly is. It needs a major overhaul , and many yards that Shady gets are on his own in spite of the poor blocking. You know this kind of puzzles me. Shady has always been a back who thrives on great blocking, not a guy who makes yards on his own. 2 hours ago, Punt75 said: A. Tyrod makes them look better because of his escapability and running ability B. McCoy has big running games when he gets yardage all on his own [squirts through a small hole, makes a LB miss and runs for 30-40 yards] C. McCoy has 'bad' games when the line can't open up even a small hole D. Eric Wood is VERY overrated, can't power block, needs help with pass blocking and is a member of the in-house veteran group that 'works' with the HC E. John Miller can't get on the field anymore after starting 28 games in '15 and '16 at RG. He was a third round pick of the Bills. F. Jordan Mills is extremely weak at RT. He was a 5th round pick of the Bears and later was with the Lions. G. Vladimir Ducasse at RG was a former 2nd Round pick by the Jets. Buffalo is his 5th team in 8 NFL seasons H. Why isn't Ryan Groy playing? At Center or Guard! I. Dion Dawkins, a rookie, is the best of the group J. Incognito will be 35 next season but still 2nd best This entire group is one of the worst in the NFL. They've become known as a run-blocking group only because of McCoy. This front has to be blown up and re-built before any progress can be made for the entire team! Are these supposed to be the symptoms or the disease? John Miller was pretty well regarded last year. You say "he can't get on the field" as though it's on him, but what if he's still a decent player and it's on the OL coach who can't or won't run a scheme that suits these guys? Sorry I can't agree about Dawkins. Not sure what you're seeing. Edited November 21, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Yeah he has , but the blocking has dropped off this year and McCoy has shown a lot of ability to make yards on his own. He hasn't had the huge games he had when the line was blocking well, but he's still been quite impressive making things happen on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezertbill Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 No Glenn, no bueno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: Hardly the worse O-Line in the league. Its the same group that led the league in rushing 2 years in a row. True, Taylors running ability skews the numbers in a more positive light but still impressive nonetheless. Its the zone blocking scheme that has caused the issues in the run game. Same old Bills sticking square pegs in round holes. Shady's talent combined with Roman's schemes had a lot to do with that. One thing that amazed me about Roman's blocking schemes sometimes is that our linemen often didn't have to win their one-on-one battles. They merely had to be in the right place at the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 2 hours ago, JoeF said: If the Bills have entered into future focus mode... I would: Start Henderson at RT now that he can play-you have to make a decision on him Start Groy at RG - the Bills stepped up to keep him by matching the offer sheet...use him on the field The right side of the OL is in full matador mode with pass protection and all the big runs yesterday went to the left. I am good with that playing for this year OR not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I have seen 50 years of Bills football and never can I remember a more worthless 5. Peterman should've died Sunday and the only reason Tyrod is still upright is his athleticism. Keep Dawkins for developing and Groy for his patience but everyone else goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Yup, I agree 100% It's just like back in the day, when Flutie made our O-line look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) Cordy Glenn makes them look a whole lot better. It is time we appreciated what we have in Cordy. Put him on IR the rest of the year and concentrate on getting him healthy for 2018. He is the 2nd best player on this team. Look at the rush stats when he is in vs when he is out. He had a poor game at the Jets as they all did but other than that when Glenn plays the line is passable. When he doesn't it sucks. My plan for the o-line next year is get Glenn properly healthy, kick Dawkins inside to LG (I think he has more T/G versatility than he has L/R versatility), put Groy in a center, slide Richie over to RG for his final year and find a FA RT. Edited November 21, 2017 by GunnerBill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Lets be real honest about the O Line --- COACH & SCHEME they both suck ! Arron Kromer our old coach is in L.A. & is the Rams new O lIne coach & Gurly along with the rest of there offense is doing really well !! I think this zone blocking scheme along with the O line coach Juan need to go !! I for the life of me can't figure out WHY i new coach coming in that is handed a offense that has had a top 5 rushing attack for TWO YEARS IN A ROW wants to tear it down & redo it ??? They all need to check their ego's at the door & IMHO the Pegula's should have pulled a J.J. move & told Rex keep Scwartz as the D coach you run the team & now told Mc D to keep the offensive coaches last year & just run the team . I baffles me which is easy to do but hey !! If it ain't broke don't fix it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, T master said: Lets be real honest about the O Line --- COACH & SCHEME they both suck ! Arron Kromer our old coach is in L.A. & is the Rams new O lIne coach & Gurly along with the rest of there offense is doing really well !! I think this zone blocking scheme along with the O line coach Juan need to go !! I for the life of me can't figure out WHY i new coach coming in that is handed a offense that has had a top 5 rushing attack for TWO YEARS IN A ROW wants to tear it down & redo it ??? They all need to check their ego's at the door & IMHO the Pegula's should have pulled a J.J. move & told Rex keep Scwartz as the D coach you run the team & now told Mc D to keep the offensive coaches last year & just run the team . I baffles me which is easy to do but hey !! If it ain't broke don't fix it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Castillo was Sean's first hire. He is his buddy. He is going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Kromer a had a OL scheme that fit the players , allowed a great running game. Lynn let Taylor scramble and run doing what he is suited to do. Schwartz did a great job on defense , now it's a train wreck. This new staff is forcing schemes that do not fit the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Moving Dareus has impacted the D, way more that people want to believe, imho. To the extent that they have had to bring back a bigger bodied guy, to try and stem the rushing through the middle. Put simply, Dareus's presence, stopped teams from trying to run up the middle, as when he was in, he stopped it happening., That freed up the LBers and Secondary to be able to make their own plays. For the most part, I think the players do fit the defensive schemes, but they decided to create a big hole in the middle, that has become blatantly obvious, to all of our opponents. The O-Line has been poor at pass protection, for the last few years. Quite obviously, nothing that the coaches have done, has changed that, and in moving away from the run blocking schemes that have previously worked, they have neutered what was recently a strength. I'm curious to know who decided that with the simple addition of Ducasse over Miller, that this O-Line would be successful running a zone blocking system, as they obviously don't qualify as the smartest guy in the room. When fit, Glenn rarely gets beat. Incognitos swan song aside, healthy he is far and away our best O-Lineman. (Glenn) After the way Groy performed in place of the injured Woods last season, you would have to think that perhaps we simply aren't putting the best guys out there. While Glenn is still unfit, you could give the interior a boost by using Groy at Center, and moving Woods back to RG, where he started his career for us. I think that Dawkins shows some promise, and it's a big ask for him to start as a rookie, but needs must. Henderson should be being given a shot, as the RT simply isn't doing anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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