The Biggest Blunder of the Pegula Era

[Kelly the Dog]

Keeping Darcy and Lindy was probably more blunderful than Beanie and Cecil. 

[KDIGGZ]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....SINCE 1962 sonny....now what?.......

That explains a lot. My grandpa gets confused sometimes too 

 

Just kidding of course. But specifically what I was referring to was that the Pegulas are very much hands on. More so than most owners. They personally pick the coaches and GM's and even some of the players. Most owners just hire a president and let them do that kind of stuff because they admittedly don't know anything about sports. The Pegulas would be wise to do the same.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Re: Schwartz: the Eagles D is pretty dominating this year. First in the league against the run in both yardage and ypa. 

 

 

 

...one of Schwartz' strengths when he came to Buffalo as a DC was despite having a scheme in mind, he KNEW and DID adapt his scheme to the personnel he had to work with.....and the result was a top five D squad and a sign of a good coach.......I do know that when Pegula pulled his "cloak and dagger" discussions with Polian as a possible czar, Schwartz said in the inner circle, "if that happens, I'll resign....I have plenty to live on ($13 mil coming from Lions at that point)"......never knew what the animosity was versus Polian....I don't think retaining Schwartz as a HC would have been a good move.....his forte' is DC which would not have nor did it happen under Wrecks....glad to see Jimbo landed with Eagles and still can perform as DC at a high level....so if memory serves me, that makes THREE high level DC's that have escaped from OBD ala Wade, Dick Lebeau and Jim Schwartz.....what could have been.....

[ndirish1978]

37 minutes ago, Rico said:

Pegs biggest blunder by far was not cleaning house after the 2014 season. Set everything back 2 years.

 

Agreed, he screwed everyone by pulling this half-measures crap and saddling a beleaguered GM with a clueless HC. Should have hired a consultant to help him identify the best GM available and let that guy hire a coach.

[pepsicat17]

Their biggest blunder was not hiring a top football executive who has final say. Someone who knows the ins and outsof the game and all that goes along with that kind of position. I know there were feelers out for Polian, but when he said no it was like they just forgot about it. Instead they hired a rookie head coach to fill that role. 

[vorpma]

27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

vorpma, I think you're missing a few things here.  I don't think it's "demand playoffs" in McWrestler's first year that's the main concern here.

 

Just so we understand each other, do you agree this team has been horribly mismanaged over the last 17 years? And how would you have remedied the situation, just suppose you were the CEO of the Bills AKA Jerry Jones, interested in your response - serious question no disrespect intended?

[BillsFan130]

17 minutes ago, Elite Poster said:

 

He picked up both Bills WR and would've had LeSean and Tyrod. This team was weapon heaven. 

I think having a potential franchise QB is more appealing than a few weapons though

[Bangarang]

Are we just going to ignore the fact that Schwartz is not a good HC? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, vorpma said:

Just so we understand each other, do you agree this team has been horribly mismanaged over the last 17 years? And how would you have remedied the situation, just suppose you were the CEO of the Bills AKA Jerry Jones, interested in your response - serious question no disrespect intended?

 

On the record on both these points

1) yes

2) when Pegula bought the team, I thought he should have brought in a football czar and cleaned house - no Brandon, no "lifers" who'd been here for decades of losing.  Put in a GM with responsibility and accountability and have the coach and all the contract negotiators to report to him.  The divided responsibility scheme where every pig was equal but some pigs were more equal than others, was asking for trouble. 

 

OTOH, we started from nutty fans demanding playoffs this year.  I don't think anyone here is demanding playoffs this year, but I do think we want to see a competitive hard-playing football team - the best team that could be assembled without "mortgaging the future" by bringing in big FA guns.  Trading away Watkins just before the season and trading away Dareus mid-season is Not That Thing, and starting Peterson because the last 2 weeks, the D can't get stop a nosebleed and get off the field is also Not That Thing.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Real McClappy]

5 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Are we just going to ignore the fact that Schwartz is not a good HC? 

This is truth!

 

We are also ignoring that Marrone 100% walked out on the Bills.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Real McCoy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Are we just going to ignore the fact that Schwartz is not a good HC? 

 

I'm not, can't speak for anyone else.  Though some coaches do "get it" in their 2nd or 3rd go-around.

[Sweats]

Biggest blunder is letting used car salesmen try and run this organization.

[White Linen]

59 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

Schwartz took a middle of the road team with a good QB to the playoffs after being 1-15 a couple years prior. More than that, you could've at least retained what made the team good. Guys knew him, they liked playing for him. In that moment we were much closer to being successful than we are now.

 

1 hour ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

Forget Schwartz, it was not keeping St. Doug who I always felt was going to be the next Bill Parcells type of coach and he's well on his way to turning around another pathetic NFL franchise in his first season as HC in Jax.

 

Biggest problem with the Pegulas is they seem to be easily manipulated by the used car salesman types, whether Russ Brandon (who miraculously not only kept his gig with the Bills but had it expanded to the Sabres as well), Rex Ryan and now McD/Beane.

 

How is Schwartz doing now as a head coach?

 

Marrone was under contract and had an out to leave if the team was sold.  He took the out - Pegula's not keeping him is false.

[KD in CA]

Deciding to buy Buffalo based sports franchises.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, White Linen said:

 

 

 

Marrone was under contract and had an out to leave if the team was sold.  He took the out - Pegula's not keeping him is false.

Not necessarily. A lot of us believe and/or we're told by people close to org that Terry made that happen. Saint Doug asked for too much. Terry all but made him quit because he wanted him to. 

[White Linen]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Not necessarily. A lot of us believe and/or we're told by people close to org that Terry made that happen. Saint Doug asked for too much. Terry all but made him quit because he wanted him to. 

 

Well I guess if that's the rumor, that's fine but I'm not going to say that's a fact.  If Doug asked for too much - then to me that's as good as taking advantage of the out.

[BADOLBILZ]

33 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

 

...one of Schwartz' strengths when he came to Buffalo as a DC was despite having a scheme in mind, he KNEW and DID adapt his scheme to the personnel he had to work with.....and the result was a top five D squad and a sign of a good coach.......I do know that when Pegula pulled his "cloak and dagger" discussions with Polian as a possible czar, Schwartz said in the inner circle, "if that happens, I'll resign....I have plenty to live on ($13 mil coming from Lions at that point)"......never knew what the animosity was versus Polian....I don't think retaining Schwartz as a HC would have been a good move.....his forte' is DC which would not have nor did it happen under Wrecks....glad to see Jimbo landed with Eagles and still can perform as DC at a high level....so if memory serves me, that makes THREE high level DC's that have escaped from OBD ala Wade, Dick Lebeau and Jim Schwartz.....what could have been.....

 

 

Schwartz is best suited to be a DC.

 

Greatly underachieved in Detroit........has a weird personality that fits better as just a coordinator.

 

I disagree that he adapted his scheme to personnel in Buffalo though..........it was just a good marriage of personnel and his wide-9 scheme.........that's good on Marrone for identifying that fit.

 

Now if Marrone and Schwartz had stayed and Roman and Taylor had come in..........they'd probably be on their way to a third straight playoff appearance.

 

But....then leave it to McDermott to be the guy to hire ineffective coordinators on BOTH sides of the ball.

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

Forget Schwartz, it was not keeping St. Doug who I always felt was going to be the next Bill Parcells type of coach and he's well on his way to turning around another pathetic NFL franchise in his first season as HC in Jax.

 

Biggest problem with the Pegulas is they seem to be easily manipulated by the used car salesman types, whether Russ Brandon (who miraculously not only kept his gig with the Bills but had it expanded to the Sabres as well), Rex Ryan and now McD/Beane.

 

I think that letting Marrone and his assistants escape was probably a major blunder but certainly keeping the powerful suits on the second floor at OBD was a much bigger one.  I'm with the posters who think there should have been a "football guy" -- a czar, an independent GM -- who took care of the football side.  I think that Donahoe had that role until he was fired but I'm not sure.  There hasn't been anybody like that since.

 

1 hour ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Good DC. Bad HC

 

Likely, but remember that Belichick failed as a HC in Cleveland and Pete Carroll in NE and in NYJ.  I don't think that I'd lobby for Schwartz as the Bills HC though.

 

1 hour ago, vorpma said:

This board is about as crazy as its ever been; try to grasp that the Buffalo Bills Organization, over a 17/17 year period developed a lousy organization with a losing culture, now we demand the playoffs in McBeane's first year. Anyone who thought this team was even close to a playoff contender is seriously misguided, even with Dareus, Watkins and the rest of the mediocre over rated guys that we have discarded. Sorry, this is a process - check out previous rebuild jobs!

 

What I object to is the wholesale purging of young talent from this roster in the name of rebuilding when it was for some other reason entirely.  Teams that are rebuilding dump the older, big name players.  I happen to think it was for the purpose of cutting costs but maybe it was just McDermott being a jackass.  What I do know is that some of the most talented jettisoned players like Gilmore, Woods, and Gillislee were allowed to leave in FA before McDermott had any real opportunity to evaluate how they fit into his "system" or whether they bought into his "process" so that makes the claims that these guys didn't have the "skill sets" that McDermott wanted seem like just so much bull manure.  Trading away Watkins effectively emasculated the offense by eliminating any downfield threat.  Trading away Dareus at the trading deadline for even less than the stupid Bills got for Marshawn in 2011 spectacularly emasculated and probably demoralized the defense.

 

BTW, if you think Woods has played like a "mediocre over rated" guy in LA, you need to broaden your horizons and watch some good football teams instead of restricting your viewing to Bills low-lites.

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by SoTier

[BuffaloMatt]

1 hour ago, vorpma said:

This board is about as crazy as its ever been; try to grasp that the Buffalo Bills Organization, over a 17/17 year period developed a lousy organization with a losing culture, now we demand the playoffs in McBeane's first year. Anyone who thought this team was even close to a playoff contender is seriously misguided, even with Dareus, Watkins and the rest of the mediocre over rated guys that we have discarded. Sorry, this is a process - check out previous rebuild jobs!

EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS POST BY VORPMA.  10 games into a new regime. R-E-L-A-X. Yeah I wanted to believe and go to the playoffs too. This team has been playing so far above it's head and in the beginning of the year had tremendous luck. (Matt Ryan's forward pass. . . .um  . .  fumble, etc.) Anyone on TBD who claims they know football saw what I saw when you watch every second of every game and that is the Bills were not a very good team with many glaring issues. The wins were fun and the losses suck, but let's BREATHE a little bit before we crucify the new HC/GM. I like TT and I was for trying out NP. And for the record I am for trying NP out again against KC. In reality this is a six game tryout for next folks. Now all we can do is kick back, root for the Bills win or lose and see whose future looks bright.  

[SoTier]

33 minutes ago, BuffaloMatt said:

EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS POST BY VORPMA.  10 games into a new regime. R-E-L-A-X. Yeah I wanted to believe and go to the playoffs too. This team has been playing so far above it's head and in the beginning of the year had tremendous luck. (Matt Ryan's forward pass. . . .um  . .  fumble, etc.) Anyone on TBD who claims they know football saw what I saw when you watch every second of every game and that is the Bills were not a very good team with many glaring issues. The wins were fun and the losses suck, but let's BREATHE a little bit before we crucify the new HC/GM. I like TT and I was for trying out NP. And for the record I am for trying NP out again against KC. In reality this is a six game tryout for next folks. Now all we can do is kick back, root for the Bills win or lose and see whose future looks bright.  

 

If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and it swims like a duck, I'm calling it a duck.    Well, McDermott and Beane look like the two of the most incompetent ducks to ever swim in WNY waters, and that includes some real prize specimens, among them Dick Jauron, Hank Bullough, Jim Ringo, and Harvey Johnson.

 

I am out of patience with the bull manure the Bills organization has been dumping on its fans for almost twenty years.  When Ralph Wilson was the owner, I accepted that he was an old man and set in his old fashioned ways, but that's not an excuse any more.  If the ownership and management of the Bills have some other agenda than winning football games, which apparently seem to do,  then I'm done with them.  I sure as hell am not going to waste my time watching their crappy brand of football.

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I am not persuaded that Schwartz would have made a great HC.  Consider please that other teams seeking HC are likewise underimpressed by him.

 

The scuttlebutt, though, was that Whaley wanted Hue Jackson and Hue was already pitching to Schwartz the benefits of staying on as DC to increase his future HC charisma.

I think that could have worked.

 

Rumor had it Whaley wanted someone other than McD as HC this time.  I don't remember who, anyone else?

 

Pegula should have fired Whaley as soon as he heard the name "Hue Jackson".  Instead, Terry allowed Whaley to become his football Svengali.

 

And when the crap hit the fan, Doug heroically played the role of Sgt. Schultz.

 

He was in so many ways worse than Buddy Nix.

[Dr. K]

3 hours ago, Luka said:

So far, to me, it has been not retaining Schwartz as the head coach when Marrone tucked tail and scurried back to whatever hole he crawled out of. The Ryan regime was a disaster and has really brought us to the point we're at today.

I completely agree and felt so at the time. The mess the Bills are in at this time is the direct result of that terrible decision. 

[Doc Brown]

I think 10 years from now it's going to be passing on Watson in the draft.  For the short term though, hiring Rex Ryan was the biggest mistake.

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Not necessarily. A lot of us believe and/or we're told by people close to org that Terry made that happen. Saint Doug asked for too much. Terry all but made him quit because he wanted him to. 

That's even worse.

[Reed83HOF]

It all should have been blown up once Pegs bought the team. Take out all the trash and burn it all down....