Culture - Do you believe in it?

[JohnBonhamRocks]

100% believe Patriots* organization is Winning Culture Exhibit A

[hondo in seattle]

Of course it does. 100%

 

Most people have jumped around to at least a few different jobs during their career. If you had any kind of awareness to your surroundings, you would've noticed that each workplace had a different culture and it affected the employees.

 

Its the same thing in football.

 

Its the same thing with any group of people that work together towards a common goal.

 

Culture affects attitude. Attitude affects performance.

 

Agreed. Wholeheartedly.

 

I've had the privilege of leading winning work teams and the chore of taking over losing work teams. Usually the difference is more about culture and mindset than talent.

 

In a winning culture, people set hire standards, sacrifice more, commit more, help their teammates more but at the same time hold them more accountable.

[CountDorkula]

. All of them have or had culture. You think Manning or Brady didn't establish culture? You have no idea what you're talking about.

No they didn't establish a culture. They are just better than eveyrone else at the QB position.

 

Is the key to finding the next Bills QB finding one who can bring culture or finding one who is better than most?

 

Why is it in all the examples i provided the Culture instantly changed when the talent level did? its quite strange, no?

Edited August 17, 2017 by CountDorkula

[hondo in seattle]

I believe the culture thing is something to promote so long it's not all faith based. I get the vibe somewhat that there is some religious undertones here with the staff. This is fine so long as the staff and players are pushing faith in themselves and the system.

 

In the military we call it resilience. Culture should be changed to breed hard work, attention to detail, and a drive to do what it takes to win above all else.

 

The military is a good example. As a former army officer, I can say we talked about this stuff a lot. The military take regular guys & gals off the street and creates high-performing organizations characterized by "hard work, attention to detail, and a drive to do what it takes to win above all else."

[The Frankish Reich]

I vote "no such thing as a winning culture" - I am a veteran of many tedious management seminars of the "Good to Great" variety, preaching about how truly great companies are able to have sustained success by building that elusive winning culture. The "Good to Great" companies highlighted by business guru Jim Collins included some that are still winning today: Kroger, Walgreens, Wells Fargo (although their recent scandals make you wonder for how long). They also included: Circuit City (liquidated), Fannie Mae (rescued by the feds), Pitney Bowes (bulldozed by the end of the mail metering machine). So there's something very circular about the reasoning: companies (including sports franchises) succeed, so we must say they have that magic "winning culture" thing going on. Then they don't succeed anymore and we say they've lost it. Phil Jackson leaves and Kobe gets old? Goodbye winning culture. Belichick and Brady retire? I'd be shocked to find the continuation of some Robert Krafty "winning culture." So to me there's nothing abstract and mystical about it. If McD and Beane have a decent plan and the Pegulas have patience and a bit of draft luck, bingo! Winning culture. If any of those things go wrong, we're still the same old Bills, mired in our losing culture. It's all too easy for sportswriters, all this "culture" stuff ...

[CountDorkula]

 

Agreed. Wholeheartedly.

 

I've had the privilege of leading winning work teams and the chore of taking over losing work teams. Usually the difference is more about culture and mindset than talent.

 

In a winning culture, people set hire standards, sacrifice more, commit more, help their teammates more but at the same time hold them more accountable.

 

Its amazing, from what i have seen, you weed out the less talented, you improve the overall performance of the company.

 

Did you change culture, or did you change talent level?

[hondo in seattle]

No they didn't establish a culture. They are just better than eveyrone else at the QB position.

 

Is the key to finding the next Bills QB finding one who can bring culture or finding one who is better than most?

 

Why is it in all the examples i provided the Culture instantly changed when the talent level did? its quite strange, no?

 

I can say in my work world (which has included civilian businesses and combat military units), often changing the culture dramatically improves the results - without changing the talent level.

 

I can't imagine that wouldn't be true in football though there have probably been cases where success was attributed to a change in culture or leadership when really it was more a change in talent.

[CountDorkula]

 

The military is a good example. As a former army officer, I can say we talked about this stuff a lot. The military take regular guys & gals off the street and creates high-performing organizations characterized by "hard work, attention to detail, and a drive to do what it takes to win above all else."

So are you to say the bills are not doing whatever it takes to win against New England? Or is it that Tom Brady is better than every other QB the Bills have trotted out in the past 15 years.

[Bangarang]

Has anyone ever seen a losing team brag about their culture? Winning makes everything better. Having talent, competent coaches and the right schemes to help win creates a good environment. Culture is just another one of those buzz words losing teams likes to use.

[DrDawkinstein]

Of course it does. 100%

 

Most people have jumped around to at least a few different jobs during their career. If you had any kind of awareness to your surroundings, you would've noticed that each workplace had a different culture and it affected the employees.

 

Its the same thing in football.

 

Its the same thing with any group of people that work together towards a common goal.

 

Culture affects attitude. Attitude affects performance.

 

This. We ALL deal with "organization culture" everyday at work, and it truly makes the difference between make or break. It's the main reason I left my last job.

[oldmanfan]

 

No they didn't establish a culture. They are just better than eveyrone else at the QB position.

 

Is the key to finding the next Bills QB finding one who can bring culture or finding one who is better than most?

 

Why is it in all the examples i provided the Culture instantly changed when the talent level did? its quite strange, no?[/quotyou are delusional. Winners change cultures.

[Charles Romes]

Not if culture means you think you can win only with Boy Scouts. The great teams realize you need the talent of many bad people to win.

[The Frankish Reich]

 

I can say in my work world (which has included civilian businesses and combat military units), often changing the culture dramatically improves the results - without changing the talent level.

 

I can't imagine that wouldn't be true in football though there have probably been cases where success was attributed to a change in culture or leadership when really it was more a change in talent.

Here's a typical piece of analysis about the value of a stable winning culture from old Buffalonian Gregg Easterbrook: http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/081021 The Tennesse Titans! They had the magic dust back in 2008, or so it seemed ...

 

"the secret of Tennessee's success is stability. Jeff Fisher has been coach of the Oilers/Titans since 1994, the longest tenure of any current NFL headmaster. Defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz has been with Tennessee since 1999, first as linebackers coach and then running the defense. Schwartz is one of the NFL's underappreciated figures: A smart guy who graduated from Georgetown University, Schwartz not only does a fabulous job but also belongs to that small club of NFL coaches who read the New York Times and books about intellectual affairs. Offensive coordinator Mike Heimerdinger is in his sixth year with the Titans, though his tenure wasn't continuous. Offensive line coach Mike Munchak has been coaching with the Oilers/Titans since 1994, when Fisher arrived. Prior to that, Munchak enjoyed a Hall of Fame career with the Oilers from 1982 to '93. Others on the coaching staff are also long-term employees."

Edited August 17, 2017 by The Frankish Reich

[DrDawkinstein]

No they didn't establish a culture. They are just better than eveyrone else at the QB position.

 

Is the key to finding the next Bills QB finding one who can bring culture or finding one who is better than most?

 

Why is it in all the examples i provided the Culture instantly changed when the talent level did? its quite strange, no?

 

Kraft and Belichick had been re-building the Patriot's culture since they took over the team. Brady benefited from that early on, and then became the main proponent of that culture once he became successful. Talent helps, but it's not the only thing.

[wiskibreth]

Has anyone ever seen a losing team brag about their culture? Winning makes everything better. Having talent, competent coaches and the right schemes to help win creates a good environment. Culture is just another one of those buzz words losing teams likes to use.

 

Because lack of the right culture may be why they're losing teams. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure they talk about "the Patriot Way" quite a bit.

 

Kraft and Belichick had been re-building the Patriot's culture since they took over the team. Brady benefited from that early on, and then became the main proponent of that culture once he became successful. Talent helps, but it's not the only thing.

 

And furthermore, when Belichick and Brady exit, they might have a very hard time hanging on to that same culture they're used to. it may be a dramatic change for the Patriots in the near future.

[Rico]

Absolutely, you can't miss the playoffs for 17 straight years without having a losing culture from top to bottom.

[BringBackOrton]

So when Buffalo shut out NE 19-0 was that because of a lapse in culture or a massive talent downgrade.

They went 3-1 in that span homeboy.

[Buffalo Boy]

Most people will give more effort if they feel appreciated and less if not.

A simple " Thank you" or " atta boy" from a boss or fellow worker can do wonders for a persons attitude.

When a team becomes infected with an appreciation for a high standard it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Leaders show you what to do while bosses tell you what to do.

[thurst44]

So when Buffalo shut out NE 19-0 was that because of a lapse in culture or a massive talent downgrade.

The Bills were playing strong football at that point of the season, and if you want to wholly dismiss Brissett, look at what he did to playoff-bound Houston the week before.

 

No one is saying that teams with great cultures don't lose games, even to lesser teams.

[Scott7975]

I believe in it but tired of hearing the term. Just about every coach comes in here talks about changing the culture.

[wiskibreth]

I believe in it but tired of hearing the term. Just about every coach comes in here talks about changing the culture.

 

They can't just talk the talk, They gotta walk the walk, or it's destined to fail again.

[snafu]

This is tricky for me. I believe that it exists (so I voted yes) but I also believe that it's overrated. Talent and coaching win. The culture part to me isn't as much about people getting along as it is an identity. They can identify and insert players that fit that identity.

I actually think it starts from ownership, if the owner is active. If not then the next level down and so on. Not an easy quality to pin down or find the key driving forces.

[BringBackOrton]

All you have to do is compare the 2014 Bills playing hard every game to the 2015 and 2016 Bills walking during plays and quitting before whistles to believe in culture.

 

Rex !@#$ing Ryan.

[Buff808]

Culture, character, pride, winning its all tied together. Packers, Dallas, Giants, Patriots, Pittsburgh they all have a history of success which creates a foundation which defines the culture of the organization.

[hondo in seattle]

So are you to say the bills are not doing whatever it takes to win against New England? Or is it that Tom Brady is better than every other QB the Bills have trotted out in the past 15 years.

 

I think in this case talent is a bigger issue. Talent does matter. I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't.

 

Culture, though, brings out the best in people both individually and collectively. I think there really is something to the "Patriot Way" beyond Tom Brady.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

All you have to do is compare the 2014 Bills playing hard every game to the 2015 and 2016 Bills walking during plays and quitting before whistles to believe in culture.

 

Rex !@#$ing Ryan.

 

 

[mjd1001]

I think culture is something that can have a SLIGHTLY bigger impact on a team than 'momentum' can have during the course of a game.

 

I think 'momentum' is 90% bogus. The 10% of the time it means something is when the players on the field believe in it AND let it impact their play.

 

Culture has a slightly larger impact on the big picture. I'm not a huge believer in it, but I'd rather have a good culture than a bad one. Talent, injuries, luck and coaching all are WAY ahead of culture when it comes to final results.

[Bangarang]

 

Because lack of the right culture may be why they're losing teams. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure they talk about "the Patriot Way" quite a bit

What does that even mean though?

 

And the Patriot way is simply having one of the greatest QBs and HCs this league has ever seen.

[CountDorkula]

 

I think in this case talent is a bigger issue. Talent does matter. I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't.

 

Culture, though, brings out the best in people both individually and collectively. I think there really is something to the "Patriot Way" beyond Tom Brady.

And I disagree completely.

 

Winning changes everything. and Winning comes with talent.

 

Culture is derived from the talent you have. When Brady retires, and BB stays, the pats will be an average team.

 

They can't just talk the talk, They gotta walk the walk, or it's destined to fail again.

And how do you walk the walk. by holding people accountable?

Has no coach of the Bills or Browns tried that in the last 15 years?

 

 

I'd really like to join the "Culture" of the Golden State Warriors.

[PolishDave]

And I disagree completely.

 

Winning changes everything. and Winning comes with talent.

 

Culture is derived from the talent you have. When Brady retires, and BB stays, the pats will be an average team.

And how do you walk the walk. by holding people accountable?

Has no coach of the Bills or Browns tried that in the last 15 years?

 

 

I'd really like to join the "Culture" of the Golden State Warriors.

 

 

Culture has everything to do with it.

 

Some synonyms for culture would be - mindset - attitude - work ethic - confidence - accountability- a combination of those things really.

 

Culture is at least PART of the reason why some teams end up being great come from behind teams - Like the modern era Patriots or the 90's era Bills.

 

Mindset, attitude, confidence, work ethic, accountability - all those things are part of the culture and absolutely DO matter. I thought this was common sense knowledge that like every single person everywhere understood.

 

It doesn't mean it is more important than talent. Talent can certainly trump anything else in the right scenario - But I believe a positive style of culture can certainly elevate a team to play with synergy - slightly above their talent level.

[The Frankish Reich]

 

This. We ALL deal with "organization culture" everyday at work, and it truly makes the difference between make or break. It's the main reason I left my last job.

And somewhere at your old place of work somebody is saying, "amazing how the culture improved when that Dareustein took a hike."

Edited August 17, 2017 by The Frankish Reich

[DrDawkinstein]

And how do you walk the walk. by holding people accountable?

Has no coach of the Bills or Browns tried that in the last 15 years?

 

 

I'd really like to join the "Culture" of the Golden State Warriors.

 

They definitely tried. And they obviously failed.

 

Accountability is one of the most difficult things to inject into a group that currently has none. Especially if there are other "higher-ups" still lingering on the leadership team. You almost HAVE to clean house and start fresh. Or you make examples out of your top talent and hope they and everyone else picks up the lesson.

[The Frankish Reich]

And I disagree completely.

 

Winning changes everything. and Winning comes with talent.

 

Culture is derived from the talent you have. When Brady retires, and BB stays, the pats will be an average team.

And how do you walk the walk. by holding people accountable?

Has no coach of the Bills or Browns tried that in the last 15 years?

 

 

I'd really like to join the "Culture" of the Golden State Warriors.

Because they have historically had such a winning culture? Or is that culture merely Curry + Kerr + (now) Durant?

[DrDawkinstein]

And somewhere at your old place of work somebody is saying, "amazing how the culture improved when that Dareustein took a hike."

 

Oh they are MOST DEFINITELY!

 

Especially since they were the type of culture that blamed all of their problems on the last employee to leave. I saw it while I was there. But funny enough, those same problems never seemed to really go away even after the employee had been gone for months. Weird!

[KDIGGZ]

Absolutely it exists. I've been on teams where the leaders held everyone to a higher standard and I've been on teams where everyone just wanted to argue and goof off. Guess which one was more successful?

[Acantha]

quote unquote "stars".

This is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen written out.

[wiskibreth]

And I disagree completely.

 

Winning changes everything. and Winning comes with talent.

 

Culture is derived from the talent you have. When Brady retires, and BB stays, the pats will be an average team.

And how do you walk the walk. by holding people accountable?

Has no coach of the Bills or Browns tried that in the last 15 years?

 

 

I'd really like to join the "Culture" of the Golden State Warriors.

 

Holding people accountable is part of it, but so is being inspiring, motivating, teaching, listening, learning, planning, executing and on and on.

 

Look, I'm not going to downplay the impact refined talent has. It's a huge component. But given relatively equal talent base in any given environment, the group with the better culture and cohesiveness is going to rise to the top.

[The Frankish Reich]

 

Oh they are MOST DEFINITELY!

 

Especially since they were the type of culture that blamed all of their problems on the last employee to leave. I saw it while I was there. But funny enough, those same problems never seemed to really go away even after the employee had been gone for months. Weird!

Well, I can agree with that. I've been in those poisonous offices too. My disagreement: that was probably a bad boss, or a bad boss's boss, or even a bad CEO or company owner or (I've worked in government) Assistant Secretary of Whatever. So if we want to anonymize that crappy boss and refer to him/her as part of a "bad culture," then we're really not holding him/her accountable. Bills = Crappy Culture Under Ryan, which is the same thing as saying Ryan was a crappy coach. Or Whaley was a crappy GM. I prefer not to give such individuals a pass by referring to an abstract "culture." Now if it persists with a new coach and GM, we may be able to get to the Pegulas = Crappy Owners theory.

[DrDawkinstein]

Well, I can agree with that. I've been in those poisonous offices too. My disagreement: that was probably a bad boss, or a bad boss's boss, or even a bad CEO or company owner or (I've worked in government) Assistant Secretary of Whatever. So if we want to anonymize that crappy boss and refer to him/her as part of a "bad culture," then we're really not holding him/her accountable. Bills = Crappy Culture Under Ryan, which is the same thing as saying Ryan was a crappy coach. Or Whaley was a crappy GM. I prefer not to give such individuals a pass by referring to an abstract "culture." Now if it persists with a new coach and GM, we may be able to get to the Pegulas = Crappy Owners theory.

 

You are correct that culture always comes from the top-down. It starts with the founder/owner/CEO and trickles down from there. If the top person has not set a proper vision of where they want to go, and proper core values which they hire and fire by, then the poor culture that will follow is most definitely their fault. The workers can only be as good as you let them. It's up to the leadership team to make sure they are setting the proper values, goals, and measurables that will allow their employees to flourish instead of rot.

 

edit: I dont hold Ryan accountable for his crappy culture. I blame Pegula for hiring him and allowing it to happen. The Pegulas were still new owners when they hired him and did not have the proper vision of what they want their team to be. They probably still dont have a vision of their own, but it sounds like McD does and they are going with that. So we'll see...

Edited August 17, 2017 by DrDareustein

[CountDorkula]

Well, I can agree with that. I've been in those poisonous offices too. My disagreement: that was probably a bad boss, or a bad boss's boss, or even a bad CEO or company owner or (I've worked in government) Assistant Secretary of Whatever. So if we want to anonymize that crappy boss and refer to him/her as part of a "bad culture," then we're really not holding him/her accountable. Bills = Crappy Culture Under Ryan, which is the same thing as saying Ryan was a crappy coach. Or Whaley was a crappy GM. I prefer not to give such individuals a pass by referring to an abstract "culture." Now if it persists with a new coach and GM, we may be able to get to the Pegulas = Crappy Owners theory.

To this I add

 

Culture = Talent.

 

Good talent = good "culture"

bad talent = bad "culture"

 

For the past 20 years have fans been talking about how to change the culture of this team or finding a franchise QB.

 

I guarantee you, when the Bills find their franchise QB, this team will start winning. it will have nothing to do with culture, and everything to do with the talent.

Edited August 17, 2017 by CountDorkula