CountDorkula Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) Had a great dialogue in the Shout box about this. so the question is: Does culture exist? Does culture have a direct affect on winning/losing? Edited August 17, 2017 by CountDorkula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) Of course it does. 100% Most people have jumped around to at least a few different jobs during their career. If you had any kind of awareness to your surroundings, you would've noticed that each workplace had a different culture and it affected the employees. Its the same thing in football. Its the same thing with any group of people that work together towards a common goal. Culture affects attitude. Attitude affects performance. Edited August 17, 2017 by LeGOATski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 This is tricky for me. I believe that it exists (so I voted yes) but I also believe that it's overrated. Talent and coaching win. The culture part to me isn't as much about people getting along as it is an identity. They can identify and insert players that fit that identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Some team that won 5 of the last 17 Super Bowls seems to think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 This is tricky for me. I believe that it exists (so I voted yes) but I also believe that it's overrated. Talent and coaching win. The culture part to me isn't as much about people getting along as it is an identity. They can identify and insert players that fit that identity. I generally agree. Although I would say coaching aligns closely with culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 This is tricky for me. I believe that it exists (so I voted yes) but I also believe that it's overrated. Talent and coaching win. The culture part to me isn't as much about people getting along as it is an identity. They can identify and insert players that fit that identity. I'd say coaching is a much bigger factor. There's talent everywhere in the NFL. Good leadership, one that establishes a positive and competitive culture, is what makes the difference. (And a good QB... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Absolutely. No coach I've ever had and no CEO I've ever worked for would tell you different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Absolutely. No coach I've ever had and no CEO I've ever worked for would tell you different.This is 100% true.The Patriots have a culture. Once you step out of that established culture you are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCBongo Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 It worked for the Cubs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 this is a serious question? the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively. yes, I firmly believe in it but a winning culture for the bills has been non existent and the jury is still out on this regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskibreth Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Of course it matters. Culture is the bond that enables a collection of individuals to want to achieve a common goal. It starts with good leadership which proliferates down throughout an organization. Culture establishes the belief system, and it's that system which makes people want to excel. Not for themselves, but for the organization. Is it the ONLY thing that makes success? Of course not, there are many factors, but it is key for virtually all successful organizations; from countries to military to corporations to sports teams. It's important to keep in mind that simply having a common goal is not a culture, and not all culture is good culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 of course. it's certainly a component of a winning team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Great players playing as a team will will produce wins and therefore yield this thing called "Culture". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Of course it does. 100% Most people have jumped around to at least a few different jobs during their career. If you had any kind of awareness to your surroundings, you would've noticed that each workplace had a different culture and it affected the employees. Its the same thing in football. Its the same thing with any group of people that work together towards a common goal. Culture affects attitude. Attitude affects performance. Exactly - it is real and important. Winners usually have the right combination of talent, coaching and culture. Being strong in one are can help offset weakness in others but to be continually successful is to have a good mix of all areas. Having all 3 produce better overall results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 All one has to do is look at NE. When Brady is hurt, they still win at around 70% of the time. And outside of Brady, NE typically isn't a team loaded with stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 All one has to do is look at NE. When Brady is hurt, they still win at around 70% of the time. And outside of Brady, NE typically isn't a team loaded with stars. I think you underestimate the number of really good to excellent players they have on their team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 All one has to do is look at NE. When Brady is hurt, they still win at around 70% of the time. And outside of Brady, NE typically isn't a team loaded with stars. So when Buffalo shut out NE 19-0 was that because of a lapse in culture or a massive talent downgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I think you underestimate the number of really good to excellent players they have on their team. I think they have a lot of good players on their team, but outside of Brady, they aren't quote unquote "stars". They turn decent players from other teams to good players when they are plugged in to their system. ie their slot WR's. They have good solid defensive players, but they aren't "stars". We can quibble over what the word "star" entails, but the point is that outside of Brady, they aren't star studded like some other successful franchises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskibreth Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I think you underestimate the number of really good to excellent players they have on their team. One could argue that those "really good excellent players" are that way because they're in the right culture system. Brady grew up in it. Would Brady be Brady if he wasn't brought up in that culture? It's an interesting question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 So when Buffalo shut out NE 19-0 was that because of a lapse in culture or a massive talent downgrade. You can't be serious with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinxedBill1 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I believe the culture thing is something to promote so long it's not all faith based. I get the vibe somewhat that there is some religious undertones here with the staff. This is fine so long as the staff and players are pushing faith in themselves and the system. In the military we call it resilience. Culture should be changed to breed hard work, attention to detail, and a drive to do what it takes to win above all else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I generally agree. Although I would say coaching aligns closely with culture. The coach defines the culture, which is why it does make sense to let the coach choose the GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 So when Buffalo shut out NE 19-0 was that because of a lapse in culture or a massive talent downgrade. You can judge them based off of that one game, I will judge them in totality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Did the Colts change culture or did they draft Peyton Manning The Pats - Culture or Tom brady Packers - Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers or Culture Steelers - Big Ben or Culture Pittsburgh Pengunis - Crosby, Malkin or Culture Edmonton Oilers - Connor McDavid or Culture. Chicago Blackhawks - Kane Toews or Culture Yankees - Culture or top level talent. Cubs - Culture or talent Tthe bills and browns - Culture or a lack of a competent QB? The minute you find the talent is when you "Find the culture" "Culture" is the most overrated thing in sports "Bad culture" stems from bad talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 You can't be serious with this. He is, which of course is asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 You can judge them based off of that one game, I will judge them in totality. They beat a bad Cardinals team on a missed FG. They beat Brock Oeisweiler. You can tell me with a straight face that if the Pats played the Steelers and Seahawks in that stretch instead they would have won all three games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleAndHungry Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I believe in a franchise quarterback . Give me that over "culture" any day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) I think people misinterpret what culture is, mostly everything being positive, people loving each other and singing Kumbaya. To me it means a lot of things such as: collective trust in what you're doing being one of the more important aspects. Thus the establishment of group norms becomes much easier to institute and practice with collective trust like the Patriots have. Edited August 17, 2017 by horned dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 You can't be serious with this. I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Stafford, Rivers, McNabb, Marino...etc. Tons of other great QBs that never win anything. Why? Culture? Like I said. There's tons of talent in the NFL, but the winning teams have that little extra something. It's culture. (Or in the Pats' case...cheating) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 He is, which of course is asinine. is it. how many Head Coaches have the Bills had in the last 20 years that talked about changing the culture of this team. how many have failed to do so? Why is that? They don't have the talent at the QB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I think they have a lot of good players on their team, but outside of Brady, they aren't quote unquote "stars". They turn decent players from other teams to good players when they are plugged in to their system. ie their slot WR's. They have good solid defensive players, but they aren't "stars". We can quibble over what the word "star" entails, but the point is that outside of Brady, they aren't star studded like some other successful franchises Gronkowski, for one, is an huge star and already one of the greatest TEs in NFL history. They have had many excellent players throughout the entirety of this current run. Ty Law and Richard Seymour immediately come to mind on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 I believe in a franchise quarterback . Give me that over "culture" any day Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostradumbass Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Did the Colts change culture or did they draft Peyton Manning The Pats - Culture or Tom brady Packers - Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers or Culture Steelers - Big Ben or Culture Pittsburgh Pengunis - Crosby, Malkin or Culture Edmonton Oilers - Connor McDavid or Culture. Chicago Blackhawks - Kane Toews or Culture Yankees - Culture or top level talent. Cubs - Culture or talent Tthe bills and browns - Culture or a lack of a competent QB? The minute you find the talent is when you "Find the culture" "Culture" is the most overrated thing in sports "Bad culture" stems from bad talent. This I can find several examples of great teams bad cultures and surprisingly few great cultures but bad teams Changing culture is coach code for "Everything get done my way" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Gronkowski, for one, is an huge star and already one of the greatest TEs in NFL history. They have had many excellent players throughout the entirety of this current run. Ty Law and Richard Seymour immediately come to mind on defense. Yes, they've had a number of good players. But rarely where they ever a team that was "star studded". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayboy54 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Interestingly, part of the "culture" comes from outside of the team. I know that players and coaches say they don't read the news, but they're out in public and experience the community mindset. They can't help but feel the culture of losing from our community. Remember the "lovable losers?" As a WNY ex-pat, it is clear to me that the way of life in WNY is to accept being second best. Buffalo has always been second to NYC. When the NFL expanded in the 50s, teams from the old AAC like Cleveland and San Francisco got into the NFL. Buffalo was left out. When Branch Rickey's Continental Baseball League was to become the third major league in 1959, Buffalo was chosen, but we know how that turned out. Again, Buffalo was left out. When MLB expanded in 1968, Buffalo again was chosen, then somehow we ended up as the Montreal Expos. I still don't understand how that happened. But yet again, Buffalo was on the outside looking in. And finally, how about those four consecutive Super Bowl losses. People from all over the world still bring that up when you mention Buffalo. We're always second best, or left out. Whether it's the local government or the sports teams. WNYers have always been left playing second fiddle. We were all born and raised that way, and it's not going to change. Unless the Bills can find another ultra-self-confident leader, like Jim Kelly was when he got to Buffalo, that community "second best" culture will always be present in the locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Yes, they've had a number of good players. But rarely where they ever a team that was "star studded". Franchise QB, great coach, and other advantages (AKA cheating) means they didn't have to be "star studded". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Did the Colts change culture or did they draft Peyton Manning The Pats - Culture or Tom brady Packers - Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers or Culture Steelers - Big Ben or Culture Pittsburgh Pengunis - Crosby, Malkin or Culture Edmonton Oilers - Connor McDavid or Culture. Chicago Blackhawks - Kane Toews or Culture Yankees - Culture or top level talent. Cubs - Culture or talent Tthe bills and browns - Culture or a lack of a competent QB? The minute you find the talent is when you "Find the culture" "Culture" is the most overrated thing in sports "Bad culture" stems from bad talent. . All of them have or had culture. You think Manning or Brady didn't establish culture? You have no idea what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I'd have to question those who voted no so far...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 This is not a black or white formula. If you have a franchise QB, this increases the odds of winning a superbowl. If you have a top organization and coach, then this increases the odds of winning a superbowl. Rarely can a team win the superbowl without either. It happens, Ravens, TampaBay, 90's Redskins and 90's Giants come to mind. If you ask me would I rather have a franchise QB or a top notch organization and coach? That would be tough. I suppose I'd go with the top notch organization and coach because that would entail drafting and coaching a talented team and translating that into wins. But that isn't the poll question. The poll question is whether or not you believe in "Building a winning culture". I don't know what person in their right mind could possibly say that this doesn't exist. Of course it's a thing, it's a thing with small companies, corporations, highschool and college sports, all star regional teams. A winning culture is a thing, I've been part of them from both an amateur and in business. It's format, repetition, execution, training, support and a general vibe of winning that reverberates within the organization. Franchise QB, great coach, and other advantages (AKA cheating) means they didn't have to be "star studded". You and I are going to have to agree to disagree with what "star studded" means. You believe that they have been and I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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