JM2009 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Bbmb emotional trio ? Let me grieve on tank day, settle down with the troll nonsense. It would help your cause without the Ram's logo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Nah. Sammy wouldn't play all 16 games this year, we all know it. Do we? I thought definitive statements like these were not allowed or else someone jumps down your throat. Or this that only when referring to the QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albwan Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 A winning record with some really nice stats. yeah , his career is done. SMH. he is a low end starter and an elite backup. But he's done because you and a couple of others have a strange hatred for the man. Don't think he's done .. he will be an outstanding backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Do we? I thought definitive statements like these were not allowed or else someone jumps down your throat. Or this that only when referring to the QB? Do we know for sure? Nope. But it was pretty likely. I was thinkin about this season as if Sammy would not be playing 16 games and I'm glad Beane basically did the same. We traded up for a receiver and signed Boldin. And now we got Matthews. If Tyrod needs an elite receiver playing at an elite level to be successful he isn't worth it anymore. We have a nice collection of receivers now let's see what we do this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 First they took his 10 mil, now they take the top wideout. 2-4 win season. Hooray for Hinkie. You'll be OK, Bawlwhine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 You'll be OK, Bawlwhine. Oooooohhhh.... the Doublewood is my go-to but my father in law got me the 15 year old for Christmas that was delicious!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 It doesn't matter whether he succeeded or failed, Tyrod wasn't going to be here next year anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 He's right. yup, and the main reason I think TT is as good as gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 ....this is his "make it or break it" year under Dennison's tutelage IMO, even if Sammy is gone.....Rodgers lost Nelson last year and ran the table after 4-6.........a good QB still finds others in his receiving corp even if his "go to" guy is out.... nelson started all 16 games last year..... and using one of the best of all time for your argument isnt the best example I don't think. nobody is expecting taylor to be that good but its pretty well known as long as he has his starters in there he can be a real solid qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 He's right. First they took his 10 mil, now they take the top wideout. 2-4 win season. Hooray for Hinkie. Not very often I agree with him, but.... yup. Agree wit you all. It would be great to see Tyrod use Jones n Clay as his top 2 targets. After these moves its obvious it doesnt matter. This will be his last season here the new mcderm plan is clear. Gotta pay the troll toll, to get inside of Goffs.. well. If you've seen Always ☀️, uk where I'm going. That was a really good episode. Im not a fan of tanking. This smells like a tank job. Not sure Shady or Tyrod survives the next 3 weeks on the roster. I dont wanna sit thru a season of tank games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac2001 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Didn't pats trade a sb MVP wr? Don't win sb bc of a star wr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 First they took his 10 mil, now they take the top wideout. 2-4 win season. Hooray for Hinkie. First they took his 10 mil, now they take the top wideout. 2-4 win season. Hooray for Hinkie. First they took his 10 mil, now they take the top wideout. 2-4 win season. Hooray for Hinkie. How many do you think we would win had we not made the trades and stood Pat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Matthews is far from reliable with his stone hands. He may be on the field but as a Philly fan you will see how bad he really is Uhh...Sammy had 2 drops to 28 receptions last season. Matthews had 6 drops on 73 receptions...That doesn't seem like a crazy difference.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsintaiwan Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 After the initial shock, I have settled back into "rodak is a tool and seldom correct" and "these trades make a great deal of sense" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 How many do you think we would win had we not made the trades and stood Pat? 6 with Tyrod. 10 with a qb who can read defenses. 2-4 now, really have no interest in the season now tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 6 with Tyrod. 10 with a qb who can read defenses. 2-4 now, really have no interest in the season now tbh. So let me get this right... you believed that with sammy they'd have won 6 games? And trading him now for good value has you upset? You're on tilt man, have a beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 nelson started all 16 games last year..... and using one of the best of all time for your argument isnt the best example I don't think. nobody is expecting taylor to be that good but its pretty well known as long as he has his starters in there he can be a real solid qb. ....apology about Jordy in 2017......meant 2016......not comparing TT to Aaron.......just saying you CAN find a way to make good with others in your receiving gang......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 So let me get this right... you believed that with sammy they'd have won 6 games? And trading him now for good value has you upset? You're on tilt man, have a beer. Pick 40, turned into the next Brandon Weeden makes the team better ? Sammy is a solid weapon for the new qb too. Oh well. Bills gonna Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) Stepping back for a second to think about Elite WRs, how often are they the catalysts for winning? Jerry Rice is obviously a big YES! Randy Moss? TO? Megatron? Andre Johnson? Larry Fitzgerald? AJ Green? Julio Jones? All these guys were/are Elite talents at the WR position... did any really serve as the catalyst to put the team over the hump? Maybe Elite WRs who demand the ball (through play or words) aren't the best thing for the team, after all Edited August 13, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Anyone who is touting Matthews because of his stats have never watched him play. He was given more opportunity to make plays and failed a lot. There was talk he might be their #4 wr this year. Yeah, if the Eagles thought very highly of Matthews, they wouldn't have brought in Alshon Jeffrey and Torrey Smith as free agents and drafted two other wide receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Actually I don't think it is setting him up for failure as much as it is setting him up to prove himself without his go to WR. If he is really "set up to fail" because of one player than he isn't the franchise QB we are looking for anyway. And what was Sammy's great contribution last year, 430 yards and 2 Tds, so setting up for failure seems to be an exaggeration to begin with. Agreed. This is a blow to Tyrod, but doesn't kill his chances. But Sammy's contribution last year is irrelevant. He might have been injured again even if we kept him, yes, but he's healthy and the odds were very high he would have done better than 430 and 2 TDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) This is, in words of the immortal Yogi Berra, "deja vu all over again." The Bills did the same thing to Drew Bledsoe in 2003 after he set Bills season passing records in 2002. They traded away #2 WR Peerless Price and released starting TE Jay Reimersma and H-back Larry Centers rather than pay them. Now, the question is, will the Bills replay 2004 when they traded a bunch of picks to draft a crappy first round QB or will they emulate 2013 when they drafted a first round QB even though there wasn't a single QB in that draft who merited being drafted? ....apology about Jordy in 2017......meant 2016......not comparing TT to Aaron.......just saying you CAN find a way to make good with others in your receiving gang......... Only if the team has a decent receiving corps, which the Bills haven't had since 2002. At present, with the exception of Boldin, the Bills don't even have a WR corps at all, just guys wearing WR numbers. Edited August 13, 2017 by SoTier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) Taylor didn't have watkins last year. If Matthews is healthy he has a better group then he had last year so again Rodek is wrong in addition until Taylor uses the entire field it doesn't matter who is recievers are Edited August 13, 2017 by baskingridgebillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 We will see...Jordan Mathews is a scheme fit...... What we do have is our top 4 wideouts are all big physical guys When you trade elite talent for scheme fit you better figure out a different scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 When you trade elite talent for scheme fit you better figure out a different scheme. that's not why they made the trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 hyper bowlie much? tyrod got another worthy starting veteran for a ball control passing offense. they lose some sammy magic for sure but its not like they are left with nuthin. theyve got plenty of good passing targets for tyrod to succeed this would be a bad excuse for his failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) that's not why they made the trade I know its not, its to position themselves better to get a QB next year...the only issue is there are going to be 3 or 4 QB desperate teams ahead of us that wouldn't care if you unloaded your entire draft worth of picks to them to move up, they aren't gonna trade out of their chance to get a QB... We better hope we can leapfrog a few of them Edited August 13, 2017 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dma0034 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I'm not sure why people think because they traded Watkins they are tanking. Last year the Bills were 31st in passing and that was because they didn't have reliable healthy WRs. This year the talent may not be as good but I don't think Tyrod will be looking out at Goodwin being his top WR. Do I agree with the Watkins trade> No, but I understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 ...biggest disappointment is that Beane and McD did NOT come here FIRST for trade(s) approval....NO respect............. It seems to me they have also button up leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I believe the decision to move on from Tyrod was already made. Unless he is lights out this year he will find himself in a different uni next March. Trading away Sammy, Tyrod is on a 1 year deal basically, I think they can get out from under McCoy's contract next year fairly cheap, Matthews may be a one year rental, and I think we can clip Clay for a lot less money next year. This team is going into a full rebuild mode, minus a few players they will not part ways with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) It does. But it's fine. If Taylor plays really well this year, we know he's the guy. If he doesn't, we now clearly have the draft picks to go and draft the guy. There is absolutely nothing Taylor can do this season short of winning a Super Bowl that would stop the Bills from drafting his replacement. I suspect he'll have a very good year. It's possible the team might even sneak into the wild card. But none of that will matter. When you dump your best receiver and corner for mediocre players and mid-range draft picks, the result has to be a first-rate show on Draft Day. That means quarterback, which means that decision is locked-in. The real question is what happens with Taylor then. He'll still be relatively cheap, particularly given the payout required to void his contract. Beane & McDermott may not want to throw their newly drafted quarterback into the fray immediately since their very careers depend on his success. They might very well keep TT around another year as a dead-man-walking. If that happened, I'd suspect some heads around here would explode...... Edited August 13, 2017 by grb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Stepping back for a second to think about Elite WRs, how often are they the catalysts for winning? Jerry Rice is obviously a big YES! Randy Moss? TO? Megatron? Andre Johnson? Larry Fitzgerald? AJ Green? Julio Jones? All these guys were/are Elite talents at the WR position... did any really serve as the catalyst to put the team over the hump? Maybe Elite WRs who demand the ball (through play or words) aren't the best thing for the team, after all But yet you blamed TT's struggles on Sammy when he wasn't on the field... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) But yet you blamed TT's struggles on Sammy when he wasn't on the field... Taylor performed better with a legitimate No 1 & No 2 receiver. That's a fact easily proved by hard data. For instance : Over 8yds per attempt, which is an exceptional number. Or that he threw 24tds to only 6 interceptions. Two Points : That Taylor's performance would suffer lacking starter-grade targets isn't a sign of weakness, but puts him in the same class as 90+ percent of his peers. You can see this in the fall-off of Dalton when he lost Green for example. Or you can see this in the ludicrous counter-argument that Brady or Rodgers don't need receivers. The hard numbers showing TT performed better with Watkins (and Woods) have been repeated discussed on this board. So what in the world is your point, Crusher? When you post, is it important you have a point? Edited August 13, 2017 by grb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) But yet you blamed TT's struggles on Sammy when he wasn't on the field...Yeah I'm not denying that, yet the team won more without Sammy on the field than with him. I don't think losing him is the sign we're going 2-14 or even 7-9 again. And whatever our final record is, saying we would have won X number of games more doesn't jive either. Edited August 13, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) McD seemed caught off guard by this move and gave me the impression he may have argued all night long over it . Chemistry of a team takes a big hit when the best player on the team gets traded for a future 2 and its something I'm confident is obvious to both McD and Beane. The team as a whole needs to be viewed as a single entity with allot of moving parts. Watkins was a big part of it. McD himself even sounded a bit shaken by the development. I get building through the draft, but these are the kinds of spur of the moment moves has been a staple of the Bills organization for years. Building through the draft needs veteran leadership something Watkins could have provided IMO. The disruption of normal Buffalo Bill football operations will never stop as long as one person remains IMO... Edited August 13, 2017 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Agreed. This is a blow to Tyrod, but doesn't kill his chances. But Sammy's contribution last year is irrelevant. He might have been injured again even if we kept him, yes, but he's healthy and the odds were very high he would have done better than 430 and 2 TDs. He might have gotten a whole 66 yards and .45 TDs a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 <p> Taylor performed better with a legitimate No 1 & No 2 receiver. That's a fact easily proved by hard data. For instance : Over 8yds per attempt, which is an exceptional number. Or that he threw 24tds to only 6 interceptions. Two Points : That Taylor's performance would suffer lacking starter-grade targets isn't a sign of weakness, but puts him in the same class as 90+ percent of his peers. You can see this in the fall-off of Dalton when he lost Green for example. Or you can see this in the ludicrous counter-argument that Brady or Rodgers don't need receivers. The hard numbers showing TT performed better with Watkins (and Woods) have been repeated discussed on this board. So what in the world is your point, Crusher? When you post, is it important you have a point? The point is that he was insinuating that we may be better off without a number one WR when he previously blamed TT playing poorly due to Watkins not being out there...did you struggle putting that together? You can't talk out of both sides of you're mouth...it's either TT will take a hit without Sammy, or he won't. He fits every argument to fit the TT agenda...that's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) McD seemed caught off guard by this move and gave me the impression he may have argued all night long over it . Chemistry of a team takes a big hit when the best player on the team gets traded for a future 2 and its something I'm confident is obvious to both McD and Beane. The team as a whole needs to be viewed as a single entity with allot of moving parts. Watkins was a big part of it. McD himself even sounded a bit shaken by the development. I get building through the draft, but these kinds of spur of the moment moves has been a staple of the Bills organization for years. Building through the draft needs veteran leadership something Watkins could have provided IMO. The disruption of normal Buffalo Bill football operations will never stop as long as one person remains IMO... ...if this is not a consensus building organization with everyone essentially on the same page (NEVER will be 100% agreement with ANY NFL club), we'll be talking about YEAR 27 of futility shortly.....no way in hell I serve as your HC if I have NO input as to who I am coaching between the stripes......Donohole's ego tried that with Greggy and it worked wonders (COUGH)...our subordinating 900 grand/yr HC leader..... Edited August 13, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Taylor didn't have watkins last year. If Matthews is healthy he has a better group then he had last year so again Rodek is wrong in addition until Taylor uses the entire field it doesn't matter who is recievers are It's about if he's set up to fail, not if he had SW last year. He has three WRs largely unknown to him. The two vets were not even here a week ago. It seems likely that struggles will ensue. For a guy essentially on a one year " prove you can be a good QB" deal, it seems set up to fail now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Yeah I'm not denying that, yet the team won more without Sammy on the field than with him. I don't think losing him is the sign we're going 2-14 or even 7-9 again. And whatever our final record is, saying we would have won X number of games more doesn't jive either. I'd like to dig a bit deeper into the numbers on this team's wins and losses with and without Sammy. I tend to believe there are some other factors at play that skew that, but that'll have to wait until I get a chance to go through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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