rodneykm Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 But fewer parents will let their kids play football This. I think you'll see parents steer kids more towards soccer, baseball and basketball. While those are not without their own risks, they are no where near what the risks of playing football are. I don't think it'll be anytime soon, but some of us might see the NFL completely different to todays version in our lifetime. Just my thoughts anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianFan Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hmmmm... but it's a very biased pool they are using for the brains (and rightly so.) Saying 90% of those particularly picked and set aside have CTE does not mean 90% of everyone who played football will develop CTE. (I am sorry to have to say that I have to say that second sentence, the way it is going in our world....) Absolutely. These people donated because they suspected they had it. However it is still a very high proportion, and validates what many are experiencing. Science is extremely behind in brain injury related issues. I and a friend who have MTBI have seen doctors and specialists. In some ways I knew much of what they know from my own research or more than they do. Tragically, there really isn't enough research funding being funneled into this. It isn't known as common a disease, and there is no "pill" that will cure it so medical companies can make huge profits off the research. Capitalism is a cruel bytch. As far as I know, the most money being spent on brain injury issues is being done by US military because so many vets come back with traumatic brain injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Are these men making the choice to play football? Do they have the option to not play football and prevent CTE? Those are the two questions you need to ask. I have no issue with the adults playing football and choosing to deal with the repercussions. The issue is with kids and football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 This. I think you'll see parents steer kids more towards soccer, baseball and basketball. While those are not without their own risks, they are no where near what the risks of playing football are. I don't think it'll be anytime soon, but some of us might see the NFL completely different to todays version in our lifetime. Just my thoughts anyway. Soccer has been found to be just as bad, if not worse, due to all the heading of the ball. The big issue is what they call micro-collisions. It's not the big concussion that does the damage, it's all the little bangs sustained in practices and drills, for lineman especially. Always banging into a sled or dummy. They found that all that heading the ball adds up in soccer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianFan Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 where in the world does that come from? Aikman had like 11 concussions, seems to be doing fine. Jimbo had lord knows how manu..seems to be fine. Tasker, Thurmal, Bruce..all seem to be doing fine. Talley does not...how do you make the leap they are all doomed shortly after retirement? It's not true. Thurman Thomas has CTE: http://nesn.com/2016/04/bills-legend-thurman-thomas-reveals-his-scary-sobering-cte-symptoms/ https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/thurman-thomas-my-brain-looks-like-it-went-through-a-car-windshield/ http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15314750/former-buffalo-bills-star-thurman-thomas-says-mood-swings-concussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I have no issue with the adults playing football and choosing to deal with the repercussions. The issue is with kids and football. I understand this is anecdotal, and I agree it would be good to know all of the repercussions, but the whole kids thing is where the CTE folks lose me. I played from about 6-7 years old, had a group of friends I played with all the way through high school. Know plenty of others that played from middle school. We're all about 40, I don't know a single one of us that has noticeable brain issues. (Besides what you can derive from my posts, haha) Sure, I guess we might develop issues down the road when we're 60-70+ but at that point there will be a long list of other factors I've brought on myself to damage my body. JMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 It's not true. Thurman Thomas has CTE: http://nesn.com/2016/04/bills-legend-thurman-thomas-reveals-his-scary-sobering-cte-symptoms/ https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/thurman-thomas-my-brain-looks-like-it-went-through-a-car-windshield/ http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15314750/former-buffalo-bills-star-thurman-thomas-says-mood-swings-concussions No, Thurman Thomas has CTE symptoms. CTE can't be diagnosed without an autopsy...and last I checked, he's not dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 No, Thurman Thomas has CTE symptoms. CTE can't be diagnosed without an autopsy...and last I checked, he's not dead. Fact: 100% of football players will die SHUT DOWN THE LEAGUE, FOLKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Fact: 100% of football players will die SHUT DOWN THE LEAGUE, FOLKS! Some are even so distraught they can't play football anymore they succumb to self induced acute lead poising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Fact: 100% of football players will die SHUT DOWN THE LEAGUE, FOLKS! Yeah...but if you ask Pats fans, Brady will be back to lead them to another Superbowl three days later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 But fewer parents will let their kids play football This is without question. I know several parents that have already done this. Who knows the long term effect of this however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Are these men making the choice to play football? Do they have the option to not play football and prevent CTE? Those are the two questions you need to ask. this reminds me of a topic debated on ppp. Climate change. No actual science beyond a simple snapshot. It's nothing at all I'm concerned with until Leonardo DiCaprio tells me to worryBut fewer parents will let their kids play footballno they won't. Those dainty parents would have never let them play football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzboy54 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 this reminds me of a topic debated on ppp. Climate change. No actual science beyond a simple snapshot. It's nothing at all I'm concerned with until Leonardo DiCaprio tells me to worry no they won't. Those dainty parents would have never let them play football. No, 99% of all pier reviewed science says it's real. The debate is how much it will change the planet not "if" it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Soccer has been found to be just as bad, if not worse, due to all the heading of the ball. The big issue is what they call micro-collisions. It's not the big concussion that does the damage, it's all the little bangs sustained in practices and drills, for lineman especially. Always banging into a sled or dummy. They found that all that heading the ball adds up in soccer too. Not even a hope of pretending that soccer is anywhere near the damage done by football. Think about it... No, 99% of all pier reviewed science says it's real. The debate is how much it will change the planet not "if" it will. They've cut open the cadavers and found it, that's real science. The other stuff is a lot of guesswork and predictions that fall flat, that's not real science, but it's not to be ignored either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 How so? There still will be people that are willing to take these risks for the money.... Because the feeder pools will dry up. The NFL and the NCAA have deep pockets, and may be able to absorb the costs of lawsuits into their business model. That won't be the case with high school or youth football. Once the law suit comes and bankrupts a school district, the school districts will stop offering the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 No, 99% of all pier reviewed science says it's real. The debate is how much it will change the planet not "if" it will. you don't know much about science do ya? Protip: sample size is crucial so scientific fact vs scientific theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 you don't know much about science do ya? Protip: sample size is crucial so scientific fact vs scientific theory. Protip2.0: don't lecture someone on what scientific theory refers to if you don't understand the definition yourself. And don't use it in opposition to 'scientific fact'. That's just brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 No, Thurman Thomas has CTE symptoms. CTE can't be diagnosed without an autopsy...and last I checked, he's not dead. That's not true. You can test for it. No, 99% of all pier reviewed science says it's real. The debate is how much it will change the planet not "if" it will. Seriously. Pier review is the pillar on which the scientific method stands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Protip2.0: don't lecture someone on what scientific theory refers to if you don't understand the definition yourself. And don't use it in opposition to 'scientific fact'. That's just brutal. k. I'll wait here for scientific evidence to either. Pro tip. I'll be waiting a loooooong time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Soccer has been found to be just as bad, if not worse, due to all the heading of the ball. The big issue is what they call micro-collisions. It's not the big concussion that does the damage, it's all the little bangs sustained in practices and drills, for lineman especially. Always banging into a sled or dummy. They found that all that heading the ball adds up in soccer too. I read a study that the number 1 kid sport for concussions was girls soccer. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 That's not true. You can test for it. Seriously. Pier review is the pillar on which the scientific method stands it is the anchor on which the scientific world bases itself. A port in which fact becomes docked. The ship has sailed on many theories K folks. I'll be here all night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 it is the anchor on which the scientific world bases itself. A port in which fact becomes docked. The ship has sailed on many theories K folks. I'll be here all night I would have gone with platform myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 That's not true. You can test for it. No, you can't. There is a test in clinical trials that may allow early (i.e. pre-mortem) detection, and it looks promising as the elevated biomarkers it detects correlate to reduced cognitive function...but the people tested have to die and have their brains dissected before it can be considered truly valid. Seriously. Pier review is the pillar on which the scientific method stands Whatever floats your boat, man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) I understand this is anecdotal, and I agree it would be good to know all of the repercussions, but the whole kids thing is where the CTE folks lose me. I played from about 6-7 years old, had a group of friends I played with all the way through high school. Know plenty of others that played from middle school. We're all about 40, I don't know a single one of us that has noticeable brain issues. (Besides what you can derive from my posts, haha) Sure, I guess we might develop issues down the road when we're 60-70+ but at that point there will be a long list of other factors I've brought on myself to damage my body. JMHO. Let's say that playing football from ages 10-18 increases the likelihood of getting CTE by 4-5 fold over those who play basketball. What are you driving your kid to on Saturdays? There's little doubt football can't be good for putting you at risk for brain trauma as part of the game--not as an accidental fall you might have in basketball or an accidental baseball in the gork. In football, head hits 100% happen multiple times a game as part of the game. Why would any parent put their kid to that risk intentionally when there are 50 other sports? I was a soccer coach and my daughter played for me. Coached the same travel team for 6 years year round. I showed them how to head a ball so they could get the feel for it to protect themselves from injury. And we worked on technique without bashing headers. And that was it. Never encouraged them to head and in fact told them nothing was worth a concussion or brain injury. We had great success but two concussions too. One a body contact where player fell to the hard ground and hit her head and one a volleyed ball to the face that a player couldn't avoid. These days kids get an enforced penalty for heading a ball below a certain age (13?). Full contact football for kids is going the way of the dodo. Edited July 25, 2017 by Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 No, you can't. There is a test in clinical trials that may allow early (i.e. pre-mortem) detection, and it looks promising as the elevated biomarkers it detects correlate to reduced cognitive function...but the people tested have to die and have their brains dissected before it can be considered truly valid. Whatever floats your boat, man... Educate yourself http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/185710-cte-and-current-bills-players/ My cousin was born with chronic hydro encephalopathy. They detected it with sonar and then drilled a hole in his tiny skull to drain the fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 And there is a ton of head hits in full contact practice also. Many concussions in football occur in practices. Many teams have switch to using other methods than hitting each other in practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 This. I think you'll see parents steer kids more towards soccer, baseball and basketball. While those are not without their own risks, they are no where near what the risks of playing football are. I don't think it'll be anytime soon, but some of us might see the NFL completely different to todays version in our lifetime. Just my thoughts anyway. I had a neighbor/tennis buddy who was a psychologist on a crusade regarding concussion. While you'd expect football to be bad, soccer was surprisingly bad for head injuries. Not just heading a ball that just traveled 50 yards through the air, but head to head contact fighting for 50/50 balls. The numbers were staggering, especially in girls soccer where you don't think about it as much. They obviously need much larger studies comparing football to other sports and the general public. It's not unique to the NFL. I slipped on an icey sidewalk as a kid and still remember the burst of colors in my head. Take an objective look. Then, I still won't feel sorry for them because they made that decision. It's like smoking, we know it's bad for you, so what happens is on you. The league still has issues of they buried info, which is dumb, but the players will still play. The problem lies in parents who won't allow their kids to participate. Eventually it withers away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I am not a big Deion Sanders fan... But I caught a comment by his wife, I think it was in regard to the whole domestic abuse thing. "You (League) break them (players), you fix them." All the money in world can't be thrown @ the problems... CTE, domestic abuse... Do the two go hand in hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) Someone soon is going to die a very horrible death on the field from a collision, that might shake things up. It has already happened in football with broken necks and heart attacks. In Soccer/Rugby from cardiac arrest. In boxing from blunt force to head, usually via the face or jaw, causing brain injury and death. Getting back to the football brain injury debate. No one to my knowledge has suffered an instant death from a skull fracture or brain injury on field. The helmet does a great job of preventing it, however, it does not prevent concussions or CTE. The new "zero-1" helmet does show a lot of promise though. Edited July 25, 2017 by cba fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I am not a big Deion Sanders fan... But I caught a comment by his wife, I think it was in regard to the whole domestic abuse thing. "You (League) break them (players), you fix them." All the money in world can't be thrown @ the problems... CTE, domestic abuse... Do the two go hand in hand? Prime time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 By the time you reach the NFL, it's too late. http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/after-latest-cte-study-how-much-longer-can-football-survive/ar-AAoPn99?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 It has already happened in football with broken necks and heart attacks. In Soccer/Rugby from cardiac arrest. In boxing from blunt force to head causing brain injury and death. Getting back to the football brain injury debate. No one to my knowledge has suffered an instant death from a skull fracture or brain injury on field. The helmet does a great job of preventing it, however, it does not prevent concussions or CTE. The new "zero-1" helmet does show a lot of promise though. Is that the helmet that has water inside of it? God in his (or her ) infinite wisdom, saw fit to cover the earth in water for the protection of his most loved creations, mankind. - The Book of Dog 147:87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Is that the helmet that has water inside of it? God in his (or her ) infinite wisdom, saw fit to cover the earth in water for the protection of his most loved creations, mankind. - The Book of Dog 147:87 I hate that I laughed at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I would have gone with platform myself.who let you barge in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) Is that the helmet that has water inside of it? God in his (or her ) infinite wisdom, saw fit to cover the earth in water for the protection of his most loved creations, mankind. - The Book of Dog 147:87 No water. It does have tubes(@ 3:03) with a flared end that take up G's and Torque with a slight spin action which seem to help a lot, and likely explain the promising test graph results witch shows significant drop in G forces. I imagine water is a non-starter as it is heavy and less weight is better for helmets. Edited July 25, 2017 by cba fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Educate yourself http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/185710-cte-and-current-bills-players/ My cousin was born with chronic hydro encephalopathy. They detected it with sonar and then drilled a hole in his tiny skull to drain the fluid. I posted with crayonz. I knew crayonz. Crayonz was a friend of mine. Jauronimo, you are no crayonz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 who let you barge in? I'm just here to pylon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I posted with crayonz. I knew crayonz. Crayonz was a friend of mine. Jauronimo, you are no crayonz. Yeah... But you still eat crayons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Yeah... But you still eat crayons. My dog used to eat crayons, then color our yard like a smelly rainbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) I am not a big Deion Sanders fan... But I caught a comment by his wife, I think it was in regard to the whole domestic abuse thing. "You (League) break them (players), you fix them." All the money in world can't be thrown @ the problems... CTE, domestic abuse... Do the two go hand in hand? The NFL players should be worried because it provides an out to the NFL that CTE develops from playing Football long before they get to the NFL and seems to have little to do with the NFL itself. It indicates it has more to do with the amount of time spent playing. The NFL could very well use this study against the players. I'm certain that Deion's wife isn't saying that because players/parents choose for them to play football as kids, in highschool, through college in the hope of playing in the NFL that puts a burden on the NFL to pay for them. That argument would defacto put the burden on any player injured in an attempt to obtain a career in the NFL. If they win on that, I'm going to start suing Beer companies for all the practice I put in studying their product in an attempt to gain employment with them. Edited July 26, 2017 by jeremy2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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