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1 hour ago, B-Man said:

House Dems ramping up MORE investigations...

 

 

Please do.

 

The lack of any results and also little to no liberal legislation passed in these two years.....................that will serve them well in 2020

 

?

 

Um...it will.  Because to Democrats, Congress is for activism, and legislation comes from the White House.  

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2 hours ago, B-Man said:

House Dems ramping up MORE investigations...

 

 

Please do.

 

The lack of any results and also little to no liberal legislation passed in these two years.....................that will serve them well in 2020

 

?

If that's what you go by, Trump is on his way to reelection and Dems will control both houses and the majority of governorships by 2022.  Will they repeal the Tax Repeal bill 63 times (or vote on replacing it with only raising taxes on the wealthy) knowing the president will veto it?  

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6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

If that's what you go by, Trump is on his way to reelection and Dems will control both houses and the majority of governorships by 2022.  Will they repeal the Tax Repeal bill 63 times (or vote on replacing it with only raising taxes on the wealthy) knowing the president will veto it?  

 

You mean to say “I am totally guessing” when you say how the Dems will control both houses....

 

 

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Is there any less value on the planet than these bozos getting paid so well to chase unicorns for the past 2 plus years? Dem's should be all fired for that alone. Part time kids we hire during the summer are more productive and have more purpose than these schmucks.

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Just going back through the first 10 pages of this thread... There are some fun posts. And some prescient posts... 

 

On 3/11/2017 at 9:31 AM, Logic said:

Just wanted to pop in to say that anyone who honestly thinks Trump did not collude with Russians to sway the election is either not paying attention, is blinded by partisan politics, or is being willfully ignorant.

There is smoke, and more smoke, and more smoke.

Follow Louise Mensch, John Schindler, or Malcolm Nance on Twitter. All well connected and intelligent people with connections (and/or former employment) in the intelligence community. And before you say "They're liberals with an axe to grind!"...no they're not. Schindler and Mensch in particular are conservatives. They're just honest, patriotic conservatives, unlike the multitudes of spineless jellyfish that call themselves congressmen.

Read the Trump Dossier, spend even 10 minutes really looking at all of the confirmed instances of Trump's people meeting and working with Russia, and you'll see that the issue is cut and dry. Page, Manafort, Flynn, Sessions, etc, etc...is anyone REALLY still saying there's nothing there? C'mon!

 

The National Review?

Wait, so you're telling me that conservative outlets like Fox News and the National Review are trying to push the idea that Trump is innocent? Get right out of town!

Party before country. Shameful.

 

 

On 3/11/2017 at 9:43 AM, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Do you believe the Russians were successful in swaying the election one way or the other?

 

On 3/11/2017 at 9:48 AM, Logic said:

Irrelevant. Collusion with a foreign (and hostile) entity with the purpose of subverting democracy constitutes treason. The issue of whether or not it was "successful" doesn't matter, because treason.

 

 

 

On 3/11/2017 at 9:50 AM, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Do you have evidence of collusion?

 

...That isn't from unnamed sources citing unnamed methods?

 

On 3/11/2017 at 10:06 AM, Logic said:

I'd suggest starting with the Trump Dossier, much of which has since been corroborated.

 

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html

 

 

 

On 3/11/2017 at 10:24 AM, Logic said:

Cool. Have you checked the link above, the Trump Dossier? Interesting reading.

 

On 3/11/2017 at 10:38 AM, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Actually, nothing in the document has been corroborated other than who it was compiled by.

 

I'm open to the idea that Russia interfered, but before I make such a leap, I'd like to see actual evidence that doesn't rely on unnamed sources citing unnamed methods. Especially when those unnamed sources and unnamed methods are being pushed by known liars and perjurers with a history of lying the country into war on falsified grounds.

 

On 3/11/2017 at 10:41 AM, Logic said:

Much of the dossier HAS been corroborated as fact by various US media outlets. The Dossier, by the way, was compiled by Christopher Steele, a former british spy. Not, as claimed by another poster, a Buzzfeed reporter.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-russia-dossier-us-news-media-corroborate-christopher-steele-allegations-cia-a7617856.html

 

On 3/11/2017 at 10:45 AM, Deranged Rhino said:

 

You are incorrect that "much" of the dossier has been corroborated as fact -- and the media is not an arbiter of truth on their own. From your own source (of which the Independent is... not the most reliable of rags): "Some of the claims appear to have been verified..." -- if that's your threshold for "proof" then that explains your rush to judgment on this issue.

 

Steele was a former MI6 officer who was hired to do opposition research on Trump. That immediately not only brings into question his motive (making stuff up to justify his paycheck) but his also methods and sources.

 

Big claims require hard proof.

 

Did we learn nothing from WMD?

 

On 3/11/2017 at 10:57 AM, Logic said:

Fair enough, Rhino.

The reason I feel confident in asserting Russian interference is simply the staggering amount of connections, meetings, etc, between Russia and so many Trump aides.

Sessions, Flynn, Manafort, Page, Cohen, Tillerson...at some point, it became difficult for me to dismiss so many instances as "coincidence". The efforts the Trump administration themselves have gone through to divert attention from this issue and duck any real investigation is also quite concerning to me. If Trump has nothing to hide and is as clean as he says he is, why is he so adamantly against an independent investigative committee? Why won't he release his tax returns?

I fully understand that this does not, in and of itself, constitute proof. But you have to admit that there is more and more smoke as the days turn to weeks, and that Trump and co are going to great lengths to avoid any real, independent investigation into their ties and activities. I understand also that the burden of proof is on the accuser.

It is my belief that the "hard proof" necessary to back up the accusations so far leveled will be coming sooner than later. More and more info -- in the form of leaks, investigative journalism -- is coming out every day, like a steady drip. To hear Trump tell it, these are both "illegal leaks!!!" AND "Fake news". How this info can be BOTH, I have no idea. Anyway, the upcoming March 20th hearings will prove very interesting in this regard.

 

On 3/11/2017 at 11:05 AM, Deranged Rhino said:

 

:beer: Because you're new, I'll just reiterate this point... I'm all for discussion, so don't misread my tone or my stance as anything but conversational even on matters where we disagree.

 

 

 

I agree there's plenty of smoke. No question about that.

 

Where we begin do differ is my interpretation of that smoke. While CIA, the DNC, and various other factions of the US IC are pushing the smoke as proof of a Russia interfered with the election/Trump is a Putin puppet -- what those folks ignore is the fact this anti-Russian hysteria predates Trump's campaign by several years.

 

If you look back at recent history, from 2011 to now, you will see an ever increasing escalation of that anti-Russian narrative coming out of the same people's mouths who are now pushing the Trump connection. There's a reason why the neocon establishment, the neoliberal establishment, and many lifers within State and CIA flocked to Clinton's campaign -- and it wasn't her politics. It was her promise of escalating the war in Syria to include no-fly zones -- which could only be accomplished by US pilots dropping bombs on Russian troops. This was her central campaign plank in regards to her Syrian policy... and it was applauded by all the same figure heads at Langley and Foggy Bottom who are now pushing the Trump is compromised narrative.

 

Had (or if/when) these claims come with hard evidence, I'm more than open to believing them. But right now they seem to be nothing more than a new phase in an agenda that predates Trump's campaign by years: Regime change in Moscow.

 

 

It can be both if what we're seeing isn't straight forward scandal but instead a turf war going on behind the scenes between power players of the deep state.

 

On 3/11/2017 at 12:13 PM, Logic said:

Just wanted to say thank you for a reasoned and well stated counterpoint to my stance.

 

As I said, I used to pop into the BBMB politics section and it was, well...less than civil, less than reasonable.

 

I can see from scrolling through several of the threads in section that the debate here is far superior in terms of content and decorum. Not surprising, given that the main football board here is ALSO superior to BBMB in this regard.

 

Anyway, I apologize again for any aggressive or dismissive tone that may have been evident in my initial few posts. I am passionate (and frightened) about this issue, but I came in too hot on this one. I admit that.

 

Again, thanks for the quality discussion. I look forward to seeing what March 20th, and the comings weeks and month in general, bring to light about this topic. It is my hope that if collusion is eventually proven conclusively, conservatives will put aside their party affiliation and recognize the seriousness and illegality of the situation and will react accordingly and hold those involved accountable.

 

On 3/12/2017 at 4:48 PM, gatorbait said:

The multiple number of current investigations will reveal if there was collusion or not. It could just be a lot of smoke but right now none of us truly know. If there is something it will be released drip by drip until the 2018 and 2020 elections.

 

On 3/17/2017 at 5:20 PM, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Logic began this thread being able to rationally discuss things... funny how that changed the deeper the lie was set in his head by the IC and MSM (who spent 2 years programming him).

 

Wonder what he thinks today?

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2 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Just going back through the first 10 pages of this thread... There are some fun posts. And some prescient posts... 

 

 

 

Logic began this thread being able to rationally discuss things... funny how that changed the deeper the lie was set in his head by the IC and MSM (who spent 2 years programming him).

 

Wonder what he thinks today?

i wonder if @Logic will come back and take ownership of his... meanderings.

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16 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Um...it will.  Because to Democrats, Congress is for activism, and legislation comes from the White House.  

 

To be fair, it comes from the White House and the judicial branch.

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Another something to ponder as the Trump/Russia fairy tale collapses in on itself... 

 

It's been established through open source evidence that the intent of the IC in creating the Trump/Russia narrative was to legally justify previous surveillance on Trump and his circle, as well as providing the legal framework to get FISA warrants on a sitting President. A Title 1 FISA warrant, which we know they secured on Carter Page and which allowed the IC to turn the most invasive and powerful surveillance tools ever put into existence on Donald J Trump thanks to to the two hop rule. With the unbelievable powers of the media and state sponsored surveillance behind them, Brennan/Clapper/Comey/Strzok/Power/Lynch/Rice/Kerry/Clinton/Obama and the whole lot of conspirators were entirely confident they'd be able to turn up something on the longtime Manhattan contractor which they could then use to oust him from office. 

 

They knew they wouldn't find anything real to support their Trump/Russia claims (because they invented them), but that didn't matter. The Trump/Russia narrative was just a pretext to turn back on the surveillance spigot. They understood the public wouldn't care if what they found wasn't connected to the original scandal, so long as they found something damning and/or humiliating. That was the game plan.

 

"Show me the man and I'll show you the crime." The conspirators and narrative engineers listed above took their fellow traveler's words to heart, and were confident that a man like Trump, known playboy and a business tycoon, would have just as many skeletons in his closet as they did. 

 

And that became the most ironic and hilarious part of their plan blowing up in their faces. It's something that is going to get lost in all the goalpost shifting and saving-face countermeasures which will be deployed over the next few days - but it should be pointed out whenever possible: 

 

Despite having the most powerful surveillance tools in the history of mankind at their disposal, despite having Trump under FISA surveillance for over a full calendar year wherein they could go backwards and forwards through his entire life and contacts, THEY FOUND NOTHING CRIMINAL AND NOTHING COMPROMISING THAT WAS NOT ALREADY PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE.

 

 

Image result for obama whaaat? Gif

 

Somehow, someway, the billionaire playboy turned out to be cleaner than the politicians, spooks, and political operatives with bylines who were trying to find something, anything, to use against him. 

 

It's amazing really. The conspirators bet everything on that not being the case... and lost. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(It's almost like Trump was vetted by MI before being asked to run...)

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44 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

If what I'm hearing tonight from all sorts of places, a reckoning is coming soon. And they know they can't stop it. 

 

 

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Canada has a great scandal going on at the moment with Trudeau facing a massive ethics investigation, and his AG thrown under the bus this week by him

 

influence peddling at its best

 

stay tuned, election later this year as well

 

 

 

 

 

Company is SNC Lavalin

 

 

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It's complicated...

 

Montreal hospital construction, the usual graft, funding back and forth with Qaddaffi, execs going to jail for fraud, biggest corporate graft fraud in Canadian history

 

over 50 lobbying efforts with Trudeau's cabinet members even after convictions of execs, dismissal of his AG/Minister of Justice when the heat started up

 

 

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9 hours ago, row_33 said:

Canada has a great scandal going on at the moment with Trudeau facing a massive ethics investigation, and his AG thrown under the bus this week by him

 

influence peddling at its best

 

stay tuned, election later this year as well

 

 

 

 

 

Company is SNC Lavalin

 

 

 

Trudeau facing a massive ethics investigation, and you just know he got us this morning thinking "Is it too early to wear a chartreuse scarf with white capris?"

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12 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

Trudeau facing a massive ethics investigation, and you just know he got us this morning thinking "Is it too early to wear a chartreuse scarf with white capris?"

 

he handled a groping charge by saying that if he had known the woman was from a large publication then he wouldn't have done it.

 

he's totally clueless, over his head on anything possible, the perfect PM to ride along in the wake of Trump's MAGA success

 

so i don't really mind him...

 

 

 

 

our NDP-left party (big enough to roar in most provinces and nationally) makes AOC seem like Solon and Churchill and Reagan combined

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

@WhitewalkerInPhilly comes back to crow about the wall (and still gets his facts wrong), will he come into any of the Russia threads to own up to being wrong, for two plus years, or nah?

Of course not and as soon as the idiots and retards butthurt about the wall B word about it's cost the easiest question: 

 

You're upset about $5b for a real thing which can help the country in a wall being built to protect the rights of humans but you're okay with how much we have wasted on the Russia hoax that has and will yield not one desired or sought opportunity?

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Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

@WhitewalkerInPhilly comes back to crow about the wall (and still gets his facts wrong), will he come into any of the Russia threads to own up to being wrong, for two plus years, or nah?

I'm sorry, what? You came out of left field here, so I had to take some time to sort out how many ways your crazy ass is wrong.

 

A) I'm not sure what facts you have a dispute about the Wall. Maybe if you actually, you know, indicate what precisely I am wrong about and have legit evidence to back it up, that would be different. But you never do. All you do is gloss over the independently sourced facts and hard data, call it "feelz" and then go on with zero evidence of your own.

 

B) It's an ongoing investigation still. Meuller is still methodically going through his research and questioning. Just because a Republican lead Senate slapped a bow on doesn't mean an independent counsel will.

 

C) Even if the end result doesn't provide enough evidence to convict Trump himself for collusion, you're really going to tell me that his longtime advisor, campaign manager and son all were involved with Russians providing intelligence on his opponent and he knew absolutely nothing? At the very best, he's been exposed for surrounding himself with frauds and crooks.

 

D) Even if he didn't, at this point, there's a very solid chance Mueller has the man nailed 5 ways to Sunday on Obstruction of Justice.

 

Here's a handy chart of all of the changes in the story: https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/politics/trump-team-russia-then-now/index.html

 

So...I'll own up to being wrong when I actually am.

 

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Just now, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

 

So...I'll own up to being wrong when I actually am.

 

 

Maybe you missed it: 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-has-uncovered-no-direct-evidence-conspiracy-between-trump-campaign-n970536

 

Senate and House found nothing. As I said they would for two years despite you claiming Trump was days away from being locked up and forced out of the White House for being a Putin spy. You're wrong.

 

You've been wrong since day one.

 

People on here tried to help you see through the fog of war you're suffering under, but you refused to listen.

 

Now you're so dug in that you're own principles are being undermined but you don't care because your FEELZ promised you that Trump was a dirty Putin spy and reason won't come back into your TDS addled brain until you come to terms with the fact you've been lied to. For two plus years, you've been lied to and programmed. 

 

I'd respect you much more if you were ever capable of being honest. But you refuse to be - as noted by the rest of your spin above.

 

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Now that Russia conspiracy is on its last legs, it is mildly amusing to watch the key players throw each other under the bus

 

 

Autopsy of a Dead Coup

 

The illegal effort to destroy the 2016 Trump campaign by Hillary Clinton campaign’s use of funds to create, disseminate among court media, and then salt among high Obama administration officials, a fabricated, opposition smear dossier failed.

 

So has the second special prosecutor phase of the coup to abort the Trump presidency failed. There are many elements to what in time likely will become recognized as the greatest scandal in American political history, marking the first occasion in which U.S. government bureaucrats sought to overturn an election and to remove a sitting U.S. president.

 

No palace coup can take place without the perception of popular anger at a president.

 

The deep state is by nature cowardly. It does not move unless it feels it can disguise its subterranean efforts or that, if revealed, those efforts will be seen as popular and necessary—as expressed in tell-all book titles such as fired FBI Directors James Comey’s Higher Loyalty or in disgraced Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe’s psychodramatic The Threat.

 

In candidate and President Trump’s case that prepping of the battlefield translated into a coordinated effort among the media, political progressives and celebrities to so demonize Trump that his imminent removal likely would appear a relief to the people. Anything was justified that led to that end.

All through the 2016 campaign and during the first two years of the Trump presidency the media’s treatment, according to liberal adjudicators of press coverage, ran about 90 percent negative toward Trump—a landmark bias that continues today.

 

Journalists themselves consulted with the Clinton campaign to coordinate attacks. From the Wikileaks trove, journalistic grandees such as John Harwood, Mark Leibovich, Dana Milbank, and Glenn Thrush often communicated (and even post factum were unapologetic about doing so) with John Podesta’s staff to construct various anti-Trump themes and have the Clinton campaign review or even audit them in advance.

 

Some contract “journalists” apparently were paid directly by Fusion GPS—created by former reporters Glen Simpson of the Wall Street Journal and Susan Schmidt of the Washington Post—to spread lurid stories from the dossier. Others more refined like Christiane Amanpour and James Rutenberg had argued for a new journalistic ethos that partisan coverage was certainly justified in the age of Trump, given his assumed existential threat to The Truth. Or as Rutenberg put it in 2016: “If you view a Trump presidency as something that’s potentially dangerous, then your reporting is going to reflect that. You would move closer than you’ve ever been to being oppositional. That’s uncomfortable and uncharted territory for every mainstream, non-opinion journalist I’ve ever known, and by normal standards, untenable. But the question that everyone is grappling with is: Do normal standards apply? And if they don’t, what should take their place?”

 

I suppose Rutenberg never considered that half the country might have considered the Hillary Clinton presidency “potentially dangerous,” and yet did not expect the evening news, in 90 percent of its coverage, to reflect such suspicions.

 

The Democratic National Committee’s appendages often helped to massage CNN news coverage—such as Donna Brazile’s primary debate tip-off to the Clinton campaign or CNN’s consultation with the DNC about forming talking points for a scheduled Trump interview.

 

So-called “bombshell,” “watershed,” “turning-point,” and “walls closing in” fake news aired in 24-hour news bulletin cycles. The media went from fabrications about Trump’s supposed removal of the bust of Martin Luther King, Jr. from the Oval Office, to the mythologies in the Steele dossier, to lies about the Trump Tower meeting, to assurances that Michael Cohen would testify to Trump’s suborning perjury, and on and on.

 

CNN soon proved that it is no longer a news organization at all—as reporters like Gloria Borger, Chris Cuomo, Eric Lichtblau, Manu Raju, Brian Rokus, Jake Tapper, Jeff Zeleny, and teams such as Jim Sciutto, Carl Bernstein, and Marshall Cohen as well as Thomas Frank, and Lex Harris all trafficked in false rumors and unproven gossip detrimental to Trump, while hosts and guest hosts such as Reza Aslan, the late Anthony Bourdain, and Anderson Cooper stooped to obscenity and grossness to attack Trump.

 

Much more at the link: https://amgreatness.com/2019/02/17/autopsy-of-a-dead-coup/#.XGrHljsLtuM.twitter

 

 

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