The only Mahomes thread you need

[jeffismagic]

hey for those who are interested it's almost show time Mahomes

and the rest of the good QB's are getting ready to preform at the Combine turn on the NFL network any minute now

 

Cool, just turned it on.

[Maury Ballstein]

Hopefully Are GM will pull his head out of his Arzzz and pull the trigger

And trade up for Tru. Mahomes as plan B

[WGBillsFan]

The more I watch this kid the more he is growing on me.......can't wait to watch him throw at the Combine!

[thebandit27]

I'm telling you guys: the Mahomes-Stafford comparison is real.

[John from Riverside]

bills met with him

[Coach Tuesday]

I'm telling you guys: the Mahomes-Stafford comparison is real.

How do you not take him at 10 if you believe that? You HAVE to...

[thebandit27]

How do you not take him at 10 if you believe that? You HAVE to...

Me? I would take him at 10, yeah.

 

In the NFL scouting community, where being technically sound is more important than ability and efficiency, he's a borderline R1 pick.

 

There's a chance you can drop down to the 20's and still get him, but with teams like Arizona and NO behind you, it's a risk.

 

This team really needs to fill a few needs before the draft.

[Roundybout]

bills met with him

 

 

show him the money, Terry.

[thebandit27]

 

If they can fill three of their needs between S, RT, OLB (2), situational pass rusher, and CB before the draft, they can take Mahomes at 10 and not be afraid of having to fill needs

[jeffismagic]

Eric Galko‏Verified account @OptimumScouting 1h1 hour ago

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Eric Galko Retweeted Eric Galko

Our Pre-#NFLCombine Big Board. QB1 Patrick Mahomes

Owner/Director at Optimum Scouting, Lead NFL Draft Analyst at @SportingNews

[WGBillsFan]

I thought that Mahomes looked good throwing today.....if we can fill other needs through FA....maybe take him at 10 or could we trade down and still get him?

[Agent 91]

McShay is dead right. There are no elite prospects. I didn't think there were any elite prospects last year either.... anyone to tell me that Goff or Wentz played like elite prospects in 2016?

 

My argument has never been this is the best class ever. It has been that this is a normal QB year.... I personally think the top end talent is on a par if not better than what came out last year at the top but there isn't the same depth.

 

You are aguing this is like 2013. McShay had no QBs with 1st round grades on his 2013 Big Board. He has 2 this year. That is the difference.

I was wondering where you said this was an elite group. It is better than 13. But its not elite... Isnt that possible too? In some minds it is not I guess.

WGAF about backup QB's?

Any team that has a guyblike Tyrod starting.

[JohnC]

I'm telling you guys: the Mahomes-Stafford comparison is real.

Tell Kirby because he is not paying attention to me!

 

You know very well that this retrograde organization is going to use their first pick on a DB. It's what we do. The cycle of futility repeats itself. Draft a DB high (Clements/Gilmore) and then when their contract expires let them go for another CB selection.

[jeffismagic]

Tell Kirby because he is not paying attention to me!

 

You know very well that this retrograde organization is going to use their first pick on a DB. It's what we do. The cycle of futility repeats itself. Draft a DB high (Clements/Gilmore) and then when their contract expires let them go for another CB selection.

 

QB just hasn't been a priority for the Bills. They are always a day late and a dollar short.

[JohnC]

 

QB just hasn't been a priority for the Bills. They are always a day late and a dollar short.

We are who we thought we are. We do what we usually do. It's so infuriating!

[The_Dude]

I advocate a "Fire Whaley" billboard if Mahomes is there at 10 and Whaley doesn't take him and we miss out on him.

I'll even start and contribute to the Gfundme account.

[Punching Bag]

Just think if Buddy and Whaley would have pulled the trigger on Carr, Wilson or Cousins etc the way we look at this woebegone franchise would be so much different.

Yes and so many teams would be different if they pulled trigger on T*m Br*dy in the fifth but continue the act that Bills front office is only one who cannot see in the future,

[DriveFor1Outta5]

I advocate a "Fire Whaley" billboard if Mahomes is there at 10 and Whaley doesn't take him and we miss out on him.

I'll even start and contribute to the Gfundme account.

So where would the money go? Are you going to buy a billboard? or just buy beer to bury our misery when Whaley sticks around another few years?

Yes and so many teams would be different if they pulled trigger on T*m Br*dy in the fifth but continue the act that Bills front office is only one who cannot see in the future,

No front office can see the future. You are correct on that front. The difference is that we have needed a QB for what seems like an eternity now. It's one thing to not draft Brady. He was a random fifth round selection after all. It's another to constantly avoid taking a QB in the second or third round when you aren't set at the position. Edited March 5, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[JohnC]

Yes and so many teams would be different if they pulled trigger on T*m Br*dy in the fifth but continue the act that Bills front office is only one who cannot see in the future,

The Bills have not had a franchise qb in over 20 yrs. The Bills have not made the playoffs in 18 consecutive years. The Bills have displayed a higher level of ineptitude longer than other franchises . How can you not be impressed?

[17 Josh Allen]

I think with the Bills Salary cap problems they will get rid of

Tryrod and go with Cardale Jones and Draft Mahomes or Watson

just my gut feeling. Then they will let them battle it out in training camp.

[Chicken Boo]

I advocate a "Fire Whaley" billboard if Mahomes is there at 10 and Whaley doesn't take him and we miss out on him.

I'll even start and contribute to the Gfundme account.

 

Conversely, I will advocate a "Fire Whaley" billboard if Mahomes is there at 10 (he definitely will be) and the Bills select him.

 

I do not understand the hype around this guy. He looks nowhere near ready to start an NFL game.

[jeffismagic]

Don't worry, the Bills will not take Mahomes.

 

I just heard Bills puppet Chris Brown dissing Mahomes and Trubisky and praising Watson for throws he made in shorts.

 

Bills can market Watson easier and wouldn't know a QB if they reached out and jumped in their path.

[17 Josh Allen]

Bills need to clean house with there media people, Chris Brown & Murph should be the 1st to go no one believes anything they say. Just spewing company line !

[BuffaloHokie13]

Don't worry, the Bills will not take Mahomes.

 

I just heard Bills puppet Chris Brown dissing Mahomes and Trubisky and praising Watson for throws he made in shorts.

 

Bills can market Watson easier and wouldn't know a QB if they reached out and jumped in their path.

To be fair, Watson has had some pretty great throws in pads too... and many times in games against defenders that are also getting drafted this year

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

All Whaley has to do is hit on a QB and the guy will be a genius, will we draft one or is he going to go the veteran route is the million dollar question?

[LABILLBACKER]

The Bills have not had a franchise qb in over 20 yrs. The Bills have not made the playoffs in 18 consecutive years. The Bills have displayed a higher level of ineptitude longer than other franchises . How can you not be impressed?

We need to draft 2 QBs this april...maybe Mahomes, Watson or Trubisky @10 and take a Peterman or Kelly late...draft multiple guys...and I'definitely even do it if we keep TT...

[Bill_with_it]

"I get it. Youre afraid of your team drafting a gunslinger. Theyre unpredictable. They make dumb mistakes. Their brand of football gets sloppy.

Many of you will be terrified at the prospect of Patrick Mahomes joining your favorite team. If youre predisposed to anxiety, hell up the volume: He scrambles, he throws off balance, hell throw it across his body, and hell squeeze the ball into windows that would make Alex Smith faint and Kirk Cousins jealous.

If Mahomes mental-emotional transition to the conceptual rigors of the NFL, look out. He plays the position with the flair of an All-Star shortstop and hes the most entertaining quarterback Ive seen in a long time." Matt Waldman

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2017/02/02/rsp-boiler-room-no-79-qb-patrick-mahomes-off-script-pass-placement/

Great a football writer with no scouting experience at all.

Guess we should listen to every analyst that has an opinion of draftees vice the ones that are actually experienced scouts. Hint hint they do exist.

[jeffismagic]

Great a football writer with no scouting experience at all.

Guess we should listen to every analyst that has an opinion of draftees vice the ones that are actually experienced scouts. Hint hint they do exist.

The amateur scouting community does a great job. Waldman has more than an hour of video on Mahomes where he goes over tape with another college QB breaking down film. I find that far more valuable than any scouts opinion.

 

The fact is that NFL teams are routinely WRONG on QBs. If it wasn't so we would have more I trust Doug the professional threads.

[GunnerBill]

The amateur scouting community does a great job. Waldman has more than an hour of video on Mahomes where he goes over tape with another college QB breaking down film. I find that far more valuable than any scouts opinion.

 

The fact is that NFL teams are routinely WRONG on QBs. If it wasn't so we would have more I trust Doug the professional threads.

 

I don't love Mahomes.... I think it is one thing slinging the ball accurately with terrible footwork when your guys are wide open - and his guys were often WIDE open in the Big 12 - and another when you have the pressure of tighter coverage and tight windows. His accuracy was noticeably more spotty in the redzone on tape when those windows were a little tighter. The ceiling is huge there and I woudn't hammer the Bills if they took a shot (though in the 1st I'd prefer if it followed a trade down) but he is a guy more than any other who needs to sit for a year and tighten up some of that footwork. He might be the guy to target if you decide to keep Tyrod.

 

However, I do agree with you on the amateur scouting community. There are a lot of guys out there doing really tremendous work now, and many of them appear to have watched the tape more closely and have a stronger basis for their opinions than some of the old network talking heads. Evaluating potential NFL Quarterbacks is just about the hardest job in sports and nobody has designed a fool proof method of working out the good ones from the busts - if they did, they would make a fortune. But people should not have a snobby view about amateur scouts (and I don't say that just because I do some myself.... I am amateur even within the confines of amateur) read or watch their work, consider whether you think they are demonstrating an understanding of what they are seeing and then accept that people have different opinions.

 

As Kirby often says for all those who "knew" Russell Wilson was going to be a franchise Quarterback there are at least double who have "known" the same about Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker and Manziel and countless others. I really liked Blake Bortles in 2014 (at the moment doesn't look so hot), but I was also higher than most on Dak last year and had a 2nd round grade on him. It is not a science. We all get some right and some wrong.... whether it is Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Matt Miller or me in my lounge.

Edited March 7, 2017 by GunnerBill

[jeffismagic]

 

I don't love Mahomes.... I think it is one thing slinging the ball accurately with terrible footwork when your guys are wide open - and his guys were often WIDE open in the Big 12 - and another when you have the pressure of tighter coverage and tight windows. His accuracy was noticeably more spotty in the redzone on tape when those windows were a little tighter. The ceiling is huge there and I woudn't hammer the Bills if they took a shot (though in the 1st I'd prefer if it followed a trade down) but he is a guy more than any other who needs to sit for a year and tighten up some of that footwork. He might be the guy to target if you decide to keep Tyrod.

 

However, I do agree with you on the amateur scouting community. There are a lot of guys out there doing really tremendous work now, and many of them appear to have watched the tape more closely and have a stronger basis for their opinions than some of the old network talking heads. Evaluating potential NFL Quarterbacks is just about the hardest job in sports and nobody has designed a fool proof method of working out the good ones from the busts - if they did, they would make a fortune. But people should not have a snobby view about amateur scouts (and I don't say that just because I do some myself.... I am amateur even within the confines of amateur) read or watch their work, consider whether you think they are demonstrating an understanding of what they are seeing and then accept that people have different opinions.

 

As Kirby often says for all those who "knew" Russell Wilson was going to be a franchise Quarterback there are at least double who have "known" the same about Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker and Manziel and countless others. I really liked Blake Bortles in 2014 (at the moment doesn't look so hot), but I was also higher than most on Dak last year and had a 2nd round grade on him. It is not a science. We all get some right and some wrong.... whether it is Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Matt Miller or me in my lounge.

 

Thank you Gunner. I love reading your takes and I do listen to others who spend time on breaking down film. When I get solid tips from people who have been right before I then look at game film myself to see what is there. Many NFL paid professionals are there because the NFL is an old boys club.

 

And Mahomes is polarizing. Even his fans like myself acknowledge that.

[The_Dude]

 

Conversely, I will advocate a "Fire Whaley" billboard if Mahomes is there at 10 (he definitely will be) and the Bills select him.

 

I do not understand the hype around this guy. He looks nowhere near ready to start an NFL game.

If you don't understand the hype then you've either never seen him play, or you lack the ability to identify talent. Those are the only two plausible conclusions.

So where would the money go? Are you going to buy a billboard? or just buy beer to bury our misery when Whaley sticks around another few years?

No front office can see the future. You are correct on that front. The difference is that we have needed a QB for what seems like an eternity now. It's one thing to not draft Brady. He was a random fifth round selection after all. It's another to constantly avoid taking a QB in the second or third round when you aren't set at the position.

Nothing would bring me more joy than the Pegula's getting negative pub.

[thebandit27]

 

I don't love Mahomes.... I think it is one thing slinging the ball accurately with terrible footwork when your guys are wide open - and his guys were often WIDE open in the Big 12 - and another when you have the pressure of tighter coverage and tight windows. His accuracy was noticeably more spotty in the redzone on tape when those windows were a little tighter. The ceiling is huge there and I woudn't hammer the Bills if they took a shot (though in the 1st I'd prefer if it followed a trade down) but he is a guy more than any other who needs to sit for a year and tighten up some of that footwork. He might be the guy to target if you decide to keep Tyrod.

 

However, I do agree with you on the amateur scouting community. There are a lot of guys out there doing really tremendous work now, and many of them appear to have watched the tape more closely and have a stronger basis for their opinions than some of the old network talking heads. Evaluating potential NFL Quarterbacks is just about the hardest job in sports and nobody has designed a fool proof method of working out the good ones from the busts - if they did, they would make a fortune. But people should not have a snobby view about amateur scouts (and I don't say that just because I do some myself.... I am amateur even within the confines of amateur) read or watch their work, consider whether you think they are demonstrating an understanding of what they are seeing and then accept that people have different opinions.

 

As Kirby often says for all those who "knew" Russell Wilson was going to be a franchise Quarterback there are at least double who have "known" the same about Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker and Manziel and countless others. I really liked Blake Bortles in 2014 (at the moment doesn't look so hot), but I was also higher than most on Dak last year and had a 2nd round grade on him. It is not a science. We all get some right and some wrong.... whether it is Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Matt Miller or me in my lounge.

 

I'm a Mahomes guy, and I have been since 2015. I love the raw material and moxie, and I love the snap-to-release time when he knows he needs to speed things up.

 

I think he's going to need a lot of work, but as I've said, the Mahomes-Stafford comparisons are real IMO.

 

As to records on QBs, mine is really up-and-down. I was a Cousins guy, but I missed wildly with guys like Kaepernick. It happens.

[Maury Ballstein]

I'm a Mahomes guy, and I have been since 2015. I love the raw material and moxie, and I love the snap-to-release time when he knows he needs to speed things up.

 

I think he's going to need a lot of work, but as I've said, the Mahomes-Stafford comparisons are real IMO.

 

As to records on QBs, mine is really up-and-down. I was a Cousins guy, but I missed wildly with guys like Kaepernick. It happens.

Not so sure you missed with Kaepernick. He was electric on his super bowl runs.

[JohnC]

 

I don't love Mahomes.... I think it is one thing slinging the ball accurately with terrible footwork when your guys are wide open - and his guys were often WIDE open in the Big 12 - and another when you have the pressure of tighter coverage and tight windows. His accuracy was noticeably more spotty in the redzone on tape when those windows were a little tighter. The ceiling is huge there and I woudn't hammer the Bills if they took a shot (though in the 1st I'd prefer if it followed a trade down) but he is a guy more than any other who needs to sit for a year and tighten up some of that footwork. He might be the guy to target if you decide to keep Tyrod.

 

However, I do agree with you on the amateur scouting community. There are a lot of guys out there doing really tremendous work now, and many of them appear to have watched the tape more closely and have a stronger basis for their opinions than some of the old network talking heads. Evaluating potential NFL Quarterbacks is just about the hardest job in sports and nobody has designed a fool proof method of working out the good ones from the busts - if they did, they would make a fortune. But people should not have a snobby view about amateur scouts (and I don't say that just because I do some myself.... I am amateur even within the confines of amateur) read or watch their work, consider whether you think they are demonstrating an understanding of what they are seeing and then accept that people have different opinions.

 

As Kirby often says for all those who "knew" Russell Wilson was going to be a franchise Quarterback there are at least double who have "known" the same about Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker and Manziel and countless others. I really liked Blake Bortles in 2014 (at the moment doesn't look so hot), but I was also higher than most on Dak last year and had a 2nd round grade on him. It is not a science. We all get some right and some wrong.... whether it is Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Matt Miller or me in my lounge.

When you haven't had a franchise qb in over twenty years and you refuse to aggressively secure that position it becomes tantamount to dereliction of duty. You can take any prospect and dissect the player to the point that you can convince yourself that selecting the player isn't worth the risk. In the end what does that obsessive scrutiny get you? Reverting to the standby response of drafting an attractive DB who will depart after the first contract due to prohibitive costs i.e. (Clements/Gilmore) That hesitant approach gets you placed in the history books for the ignominious distinction of a quarter century of consecutive years out of the playoffs in a system designed for parity. (I'm confidently assuming more years of non-playoff seasons.)

 

Go back and review the scouting book on Derek Carr. He wasn't an elite prospect that teams were coveting. Yet this top of the second round selection has done more to elevate a deeply buried franchise that was prone to being mocked for being such an erratic franchise. Now they are contending team. Do I have to ask you why?

 

Dak Prescott wasn't an elite prospect. Yet he was able to come in and competently take over when the starter got hurt. Do you think the Cowboys regret drafting Dak, a qb who was their third or fourth preference on their draft list?

 

Instead of examining a qb from the perspective what the prospect doesn't do well how about altering one's scouting framework and viewing what the qb does do well and how that translates to the pro game.

 

A few days ago I was listening to a podcast where the GM of the Eagles was being interviewed. The host asked the GM why they took such a big risk and give up a lot for the drafting of Wentz? His response was illuminating. He said absolutely not. He explained that the risk was not in doing what you had to do to taking a qb, the risk was not doing what you had to do to get a qb. If you don't act in securing that position you have little chance to succeed. Compare that attitude to the passive mentality of the Bills?

 

My point is obvious to the fans of this archaic franchise. If this pathetic organization continues to act with timidity on the qb issue and allows other teams to pass it by it richly deserves the scorn and mocking that is directed at it.

 

I'm a Mahomes guy, and I have been since 2015. I love the raw material and moxie, and I love the snap-to-release time when he knows he needs to speed things up.

 

I think he's going to need a lot of work, but as I've said, the Mahomes-Stafford comparisons are real IMO.

 

As to records on QBs, mine is really up-and-down. I was a Cousins guy, but I missed wildly with guys like Kaepernick. It happens.

You are astute and perspicacious.

 

The problem with the approach that a lot of people take when evaluating qbs is that they focus on the shortcomings without balancing it out with what they do well. They are taking a static approach when scouting a player instead of taking a more dynamic approach and projecting what the player is capable of doing with good coaching and work ethic.

[FireChan]

 

I'm a Mahomes guy, and I have been since 2015. I love the raw material and moxie, and I love the snap-to-release time when he knows he needs to speed things up.

 

I think he's going to need a lot of work, but as I've said, the Mahomes-Stafford comparisons are real IMO.

 

As to records on QBs, mine is really up-and-down. I was a Cousins guy, but I missed wildly with guys like Kaepernick. It happens.

I loved Wentz. And Tannehill.....

 

Nobody has a good record on QB's. But you only need to get 1/100 right.

Edited March 7, 2017 by FireChan

[GunnerBill]

John - I am not advocating standing pat at Quarterback. I have been quite clear that the Bills need to be more aggressive in getting hold of a true franchise guy. But you still have to watch the tape and be true to yourself evaluating the prospects. I can be not mad on Mahomes and still want us to take a Quarterback.... hell I have said I'd be okay with Mahomes with a trade back in the 1st and I have a 3rd round grade on him... so that is the opposite of being passive in acquiring a guy.

 

I have a ton of respect for Bandit and his evaluations. Often he and I see things in a similar way. We differ on Mahomes.... that is okay, it happens. It doesn't mean I don't want to take a Quarterback. Watson is the #1QB on my board if he is there at 10 I'd run to the podium and pick him.

[JohnC]

John - I am not advocating standing pat at Quarterback. I have been quite clear that the Bills need to be more aggressive in getting hold of a true franchise guy. But you still have to watch the tape and be true to yourself evaluating the prospects. I can be not mad on Mahomes and still want us to take a Quarterback.... hell I have said I'd be okay with Mahomes with a trade back in the 1st and I have a 3rd round grade on him... so that is the opposite of being passive in acquiring a guy.

 

I have a ton of respect for Bandit and his evaluations. Often he and I see things in a similar way. We differ on Mahomes.... that is okay, it happens. It doesn't mean I don't want to take a Quarterback. Watson is the #1QB on my board if he is there at 10 I'd run to the podium and pick him.

I don't care what horse you are riding as long as it is a qb horse.

[Bill_with_it]

 

I don't love Mahomes.... I think it is one thing slinging the ball accurately with terrible footwork when your guys are wide open - and his guys were often WIDE open in the Big 12 - and another when you have the pressure of tighter coverage and tight windows. His accuracy was noticeably more spotty in the redzone on tape when those windows were a little tighter. The ceiling is huge there and I woudn't hammer the Bills if they took a shot (though in the 1st I'd prefer if it followed a trade down) but he is a guy more than any other who needs to sit for a year and tighten up some of that footwork. He might be the guy to target if you decide to keep Tyrod.

 

However, I do agree with you on the amateur scouting community. There are a lot of guys out there doing really tremendous work now, and many of them appear to have watched the tape more closely and have a stronger basis for their opinions than some of the old network talking heads. Evaluating potential NFL Quarterbacks is just about the hardest job in sports and nobody has designed a fool proof method of working out the good ones from the busts - if they did, they would make a fortune. But people should not have a snobby view about amateur scouts (and I don't say that just because I do some myself.... I am amateur even within the confines of amateur) read or watch their work, consider whether you think they are demonstrating an understanding of what they are seeing and then accept that people have different opinions.

 

As Kirby often says for all those who "knew" Russell Wilson was going to be a franchise Quarterback there are at least double who have "known" the same about Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker and Manziel and countless others. I really liked Blake Bortles in 2014 (at the moment doesn't look so hot), but I was also higher than most on Dak last year and had a 2nd round grade on him. It is not a science. We all get some right and some wrong.... whether it is Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Matt Miller or me in my lounge.

When I see Mahomes I see a tall Tyrod. Every bit of the things Mahomes does Tyrod can and has done if not better. One of the videos done up regarding Mahomes being highly touted about in this thread literally showed himrunning away from pressure, heres the thing my grandma was running faster then every defender chasing him. Almost every throw on any of the videos is a deep go or out, nothing else. The offense is so simplistic I dont think many would have a problem running it. Coupled with bare naked wrs with apparently no safety to help the opposing cb and you produce results as everyone on here thinks Mahomes could do in the NFL.

Whew, on to your next statement. Im not snobby towards any amateur scout. Firstly, his own bio doesnt list him as a scout, he is a football analyst writer. If he isnt claiming the accolades dont give it to him and act like his opinion as a writer is any more in depth or true than any others thinking, because it likely isnt. He gets paid to write ptoducts that people will read, if jis product said he predicts Mahomes to throw more ints than a blind Brett Favre in the NFL who would read or pay for that?

[TheFunPolice]

Could we get him in the 2nd?

 

I think (like always) QBs will get "over-drafted" because teams need them.

 

I say "over drafted" because let's say Dallas picked Dak in round 1 last year and he had the season he did. Nobody would care that he was "over drafted."

 

I am a firm believer that if you love a QB and think he will be "the guy" for 15 years+ you take him as soon as you can, because there is always the chance that you aren't the only one who thinks that.

[jeffismagic]

Could we get him in the 2nd?

 

I think (like always) QBs will get "over-drafted" because teams need them.

 

I say "over drafted" because let's say Dallas picked Dak in round 1 last year and he had the season he did. Nobody would care that he was "over drafted."

 

I am a firm believer that if you love a QB and think he will be "the guy" for 15 years+ you take him as soon as you can, because there is always the chance that you aren't the only one who thinks that.

 

Mahomes will probably go around 15-25 is my guess.